We have 9 new players and 3 true freshman playing a ton of minutes. What did yo think the games were going to look like in November and December?
GAME 3 MONMOUTH: Yes they can score but....
- Thread starter bac2therac
- Start date
I think the reality is somewhere in between "no defense, lets panic" and "freshman growing pains". As others have said, we can't outscore every team in every game. However, the fact that we can use our scoring to overcome deficits and generate excitement to cue a home game comeback is very positive. We're also going to need defensive stands at times and I think we've shown an ability to do it when needed.
The young kids (including Dylan and Ace) are getting a harsh lesson in the upgraded talent level and intensity of college basketball. Dylan has looked winded many times during his first 3 games and Ace cramping up is a sign of a lack of preparation on his part. I also think they will be fine and it's a lesson that needs to be learned. Same goes for the defensive intensity. Allowing backdoor cuts, poor box outs - they can be fixed. The question is, "can they be fixed quickly enough to make this a special season?"
I agree with Bac when he says this team has to grow up fast. I think this team will be a tremendous tournament team when it's all said and done. The question is, can we win enough games to get to the point to make that meaningful? I'm saying....yes.
The young kids (including Dylan and Ace) are getting a harsh lesson in the upgraded talent level and intensity of college basketball. Dylan has looked winded many times during his first 3 games and Ace cramping up is a sign of a lack of preparation on his part. I also think they will be fine and it's a lesson that needs to be learned. Same goes for the defensive intensity. Allowing backdoor cuts, poor box outs - they can be fixed. The question is, "can they be fixed quickly enough to make this a special season?"
I agree with Bac when he says this team has to grow up fast. I think this team will be a tremendous tournament team when it's all said and done. The question is, can we win enough games to get to the point to make that meaningful? I'm saying....yes.
The problem Rutgers faces on defense is the number of new players who aren't used to playing together and at least six will be gone next season.Teaching switching man to man defenses to players that are primarily offensively focused is a big challenge which is why I favor more zone defense with this roster.Its easier to learn and players aren't as tired defending players all over the court.This Rutgers team will win games with a high scoring offense similar to Iowa in previous seasons.The ability to hold opponents to less than 70 points will be a real challenge.Bottom line Rutgers should win at least 20 games and get a NCAA bid.
Jwill is not a plus defender, slides and falls all over the place, basket hangs after bad plays while not getting back. Considering he gives us Zero offensively with this team because he can’t have the ball. Hopefully we can find him a transfer school.
Maybe before we kick him to the curb this season, we can find a role for him to fit in on this team first. Yikes.
Hawk, tries to go to extremes and never finds the middle. To say you have no concern for the defense or rebounding is putting your head in the sand.
On any night we play , we will have the 2 best players on the court. Our offense can score , can score a lot , as seen can share the ball, and when it finds the right guys on kick out threes, like PJ and Martini , and uses the low post for easy scoring with Lathan , the best offensive center since Bailey, we are wonderful to watch and can hang 90 to 100 on anyone. That will win us a lot of games.
However, you do not have to take it to extremes , and play almost no defense for a half. Good or acceptable defense leads to good offense which will definitely be true with our team this year . It wasn’t just Bashir having a career night , it was every other less talented player on Monmouth getting whatever shot they wanted that was disturbing. We could have won that game 98-67 with even a modicum of defense. That is all that is required to be a really successful team this year. Don’t bury your heads in the sand and not think it is a concern , which it is , but at the same time very hopeful that Pike can fix most of the bad defense . This game is a teaching tape .
My main concern is Ace’s health , as he seemed to aggravate his hip flexor and either was cramping or had a hamstring issue. It was obvious to me he was hurting all night as he could not move freely , could not bend for balls or dribbling or could not reach for balls or rebounding , but still did what he did. We need him healthy for Vegas and beyond.
On any night we play , we will have the 2 best players on the court. Our offense can score , can score a lot , as seen can share the ball, and when it finds the right guys on kick out threes, like PJ and Martini , and uses the low post for easy scoring with Lathan , the best offensive center since Bailey, we are wonderful to watch and can hang 90 to 100 on anyone. That will win us a lot of games.
However, you do not have to take it to extremes , and play almost no defense for a half. Good or acceptable defense leads to good offense which will definitely be true with our team this year . It wasn’t just Bashir having a career night , it was every other less talented player on Monmouth getting whatever shot they wanted that was disturbing. We could have won that game 98-67 with even a modicum of defense. That is all that is required to be a really successful team this year. Don’t bury your heads in the sand and not think it is a concern , which it is , but at the same time very hopeful that Pike can fix most of the bad defense . This game is a teaching tape .
My main concern is Ace’s health , as he seemed to aggravate his hip flexor and either was cramping or had a hamstring issue. It was obvious to me he was hurting all night as he could not move freely , could not bend for balls or dribbling or could not reach for balls or rebounding , but still did what he did. We need him healthy for Vegas and beyond.
lol and yet Pike made him a captain.. must have happened because he has no redeeming basketball qualities. Board continues to have ridiculous takes.
Some truth to this
Capsulized by one play - Monmouth inbounding ball under their own hoop in second half, I think was Somerville was had by the oldest inbounds play int he book, literally an 8th grade play - fake screen where appears to try and free shooter running out towards elbow, and simply spins around catches pass vs defender who is cheating and defending the screen, not the player. Layup. It was embarrassing.
To me is fool's gold is when you win but you shoot way better than you normally do. I realize we got quality looks, but how many points do we score if we adjust our shooting for normal.
We had posts last game people worried about the poor shooting. I am more worried when the opposite happened. Shooting is everything, but the results don't always reflect the looks you get and how you played.
There were also possessions (not many) I thought the D was good and Monmouth made a tough basket.
I will reserve judgment on defense etc until I see the full plan implemented.
We have yet to see Pike press. We have yet to see 1-3-1 zone, or really any switching defensive schemes.
Pike is rightfully implementing things slowly because of youth and so many new players.
We have yet to see Pike press. We have yet to see 1-3-1 zone, or really any switching defensive schemes.
Pike is rightfully implementing things slowly because of youth and so many new players.
Agree 100%, as I said in the rapid reaction thread. Not looking for lockdown defense, per se, but the ole defense of last night's 2nd half just won't cut it against better teams that our offense, as good as it is, probably won't be able to score at will against (unlike Monmouth). We're going to win a lot of games and against some good teams and it's going to be very entertaining, but I doubt we become a top team without at least somewhat better defense.
We have2 guys with Jordanesque, ability it’s an embarrassment of riches.
I have concerns on what I am seeing on how we run our offense, and our discipline on defense.
Even Jordan as well as Kobe benefited from well designed offensive sets
Rutgers could benefit from more
Structure, on Offense
I have concerns on what I am seeing on how we run our offense, and our discipline on defense.
Even Jordan as well as Kobe benefited from well designed offensive sets
Rutgers could benefit from more
Structure, on Offense
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I'm not concerned....it's mid November.
It takes years to fine-tune a roster......fine tune defensive rotations.... there's scouting involved.
I am not under any illusion that PJ Hayes, Zach Martini and 3 freshman are dominant defensive players. Can they play better?? Maybe, but we have better options to go to for defense and rebounding.
IF, fans want elite defense and better rebounding, sit down Zach Martini and PJ Hayes and play the length, size and better speed and rebounding of Dylan Grant and more JWill at guard.
I would include Bryce Dortch as a plus or lengthy defender, who can bother shooting from opponents.
If you want to play effort, rebounding and defense, prepare to sacrifice offense and scoring and make life even more difficult on Dylan, Ace and Lathan to score 50 to 60 PPG and hope JWill, JMike, Derkack and others fill in the gaps until Grant and Dortch get up to speed......or hope JMike, JWill and Derkack become scorers and shooters at Martini, Hayes level??
There's no perfect roster and there's balance involved. Right now, I am VERY comfortable that the defense gets better vs asking JWill, JMike and Derkack become complete 28 to 30 minutes a game players that score 10PPG each.
No. Got it to 11. Then pike started waving his hands and it was over. Never felt like we were losing either. But was pretty frustrated in the second half
No music?
2024 A Sp”Ace” Odyssey?
Ace of Baseline?
Space Ace Bailey?
Another game without all three starters.
Still won going away.
Yes defense is a concern but also pretty clear by evident of plus 17/18 last week that it is JWill who is our best defensive player and he was missing.
Still concerning we allowed one player to go off and now three consecutive games where opposition shot lights out on threes.
I’m not in panic mode yet with D. Just a new way of playing.
I am concerned that RU players do seem to be more winded than past years.
We won a game at the line. That’s encouraging and we hit threes.
Martini and Derdack were very good.
Dylan was amazing self and Ace while clearly not 100 percent showed the glimpses of being as good as advertised.
Little bit of rest now as only one game in a week so hopefully Pike turns up the coaching.
In past years these games have been bad losses or struggles.
Think we are on schedule.
2024 A Sp”Ace” Odyssey?
Ace of Baseline?
Space Ace Bailey?
Another game without all three starters.
Still won going away.
Yes defense is a concern but also pretty clear by evident of plus 17/18 last week that it is JWill who is our best defensive player and he was missing.
Still concerning we allowed one player to go off and now three consecutive games where opposition shot lights out on threes.
I’m not in panic mode yet with D. Just a new way of playing.
I am concerned that RU players do seem to be more winded than past years.
We won a game at the line. That’s encouraging and we hit threes.
Martini and Derdack were very good.
Dylan was amazing self and Ace while clearly not 100 percent showed the glimpses of being as good as advertised.
Little bit of rest now as only one game in a week so hopefully Pike turns up the coaching.
In past years these games have been bad losses or struggles.
Think we are on schedule.
well said....i panicked after the St John's scrimmage and 3 games later Harper is a completely different player on the defensive end.
We scored 98 points on 70 possessions (+28 in my book). This is the wrong game for this.....plus it isn't true.
....and they aren't Jordanesque...more like Grant Hill and Kevin Durant
Real panic was watching the Princeton game last year.
Lol stop with the excuses. Maryland has the same transition and is beating teams by 50. If I told we’d be losing to St. Peter’s with 4 minutes left before the season you would have called me a Rutgers haters.
We have SIX players shooting between 50-60% from the floor, reminiscent of the 20-21 season starting off offensively hot, but this team has a higher ceiling because of chemistry. I don't see a potential fight for lead guard the way 20-21 went downhill quick from 6-0, 7-1 to 14-10 but did recover to almost make the Sweet 16.
Martini FG 12-20 60%, 3pt 7-14 50%
PJ Hayes FG 9-15 60%, 3pt 6-11 54.5%
Derkack FG 7-12 58.3%, 2pt 7-9 77.8%
D. Harper 23-40 57.5%, 2pt 19-27 70.4%
Sommerville FG 13-23 56.5%, 1-1 3pt
Bailey FG 5-10 50%
JWill 6-13 46.2%, JMike 6-14 42.9%
Ogbole 2-4, Acuff 3-10
Acuff is still trying to work his way back to form.
Is the defense sorted yet, no, there are spurts of it thru 3, but the ceiling on this team is pretty high when the defense catches up to the offense without losing much on the offensive side. Princeton is more offensive than defensive, San Diego, Eastern Michigan not much defense, Derkack is the only one that has a reputation for defense, along with JWill and JMike. They will be the keys to get the rest on board playing defense.
Martini FG 12-20 60%, 3pt 7-14 50%
PJ Hayes FG 9-15 60%, 3pt 6-11 54.5%
Derkack FG 7-12 58.3%, 2pt 7-9 77.8%
D. Harper 23-40 57.5%, 2pt 19-27 70.4%
Sommerville FG 13-23 56.5%, 1-1 3pt
Bailey FG 5-10 50%
JWill 6-13 46.2%, JMike 6-14 42.9%
Ogbole 2-4, Acuff 3-10
Acuff is still trying to work his way back to form.
Is the defense sorted yet, no, there are spurts of it thru 3, but the ceiling on this team is pretty high when the defense catches up to the offense without losing much on the offensive side. Princeton is more offensive than defensive, San Diego, Eastern Michigan not much defense, Derkack is the only one that has a reputation for defense, along with JWill and JMike. They will be the keys to get the rest on board playing defense.
Pump the brakes on the chemistry part....yes, for the most part, chemistry is great. We have older guys that are very good for the younger guys. Dercack and Harper seem to be very tight on the court.
Let's revisit after hopefully we are fully healthy and some guys lose minutes. Also I expect to lose once or twice.
I think chemistry is important, but it is too early. We will win if we can be a Top 25 offensive team and a Top 50 defensiveteam.
Let's revisit after hopefully we are fully healthy and some guys lose minutes. Also I expect to lose once or twice.
I think chemistry is important, but it is too early. We will win if we can be a Top 25 offensive team and a Top 50 defensiveteam.
Spot on Bac. Lots to like offensively, especially the assists and sharing the game. But, I never felt worse about a 17-point victory because of the terrible second half defense!
Let's hope an Ohio St meltdown doesn't happen, from 48-32 to 68-80 on the Bingo card this year, at least Bo Boroski is retired.
Yea and ultimately we didn’t cover against Monmouth in a high possession game and we were in a dogfight against St. Peter’s. For all the encouraging signs on offense and potential outlier Monmouth shooting of last night, the MOV shit is really important in non-conference play and we’re hurting our standing there.
It’s not the amount of points we gave up that is concerning. It’s allowing a low level, offensively challenged team to come into the RAC and shoot 45% from three with 13 makes that is a red flag!
Foolish statement. Adding Ace was a step forward. The ingredients there for the first time. The recipe will emerge and be developed
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if you think we will be 11-20 from 3 and 25-32 from 1 most nights it isn't.
I am the 1st guy when we shoot poorly to say it isn't as bad as it looks.
Normalize our shooting and what do you get.....
7-20 from 3 or 35% (-12 points)
23-32 from 1 or 71.9% (-2 points)
-14 points
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I think an argument that says we are too structured carries more weight than one that says we aren't.
There were reasons why they shot well. Ball movement was incredible and led to open looks and less forced shots. On top of that, the right players were shooting the right shots. Hayes, Martini, Harper, Bailey, and Acuff (I think he’ll be a quality shooter) shot 19 of the 20 threes and went 11-19 (57.9%). Against Wagner, the other players shot 8 threes and went 1-8.
thats why my baseline was 35% and not 30%.
you kind of made my point though with the 1-8. wagner was the opposite of fool gold
Lots of thoughts and some of them include concerns about defense, but I’ll sum it up fairly simply.
I’d rather have a predictably efficient offense who we can rely on the put up points each game while Pike teaches better defense over the course of the year.
Certainly preferably to a strong reliable defensive team that Pike has to try to teach offense.
I’d rather have a predictably efficient offense who we can rely on the put up points each game while Pike teaches better defense over the course of the year.
Certainly preferably to a strong reliable defensive team that Pike has to try to teach offense.
A little too much gloom and doom on here, people with concerns about Ace’s health make it sound like he is going in for an MRI today on a potential ACL tear or something…..chill……R-E-L-A-X…...he had cramps. If the defense looks like this in mid January then this team’s ceiling will be limited. However, it is still mid November. Everything @bac2therac pointed out in the recap as usual was a great summation of the game, spot on. I am fully confident that this type of defense is not acceptable with Pike. However, I think people may have unrealistic expectations if they expect this team to be a top 10 or top 20 defense. Can they and should they look better than the second half on defense last night? Absolutely, 100% agreed. But, the offense is going to drive the bus when it comes to winning this season and the defense is just along for the ride. This is not a team that grinds out 63-61 rock fight wins on a regular basis (and Amen to that).
I said the same type of things while watching the second half “where is the defensive intensity?” “Pike can’t be happy right now with this defense and effort”. Give them time but if the expectation is for this group to be a lockdown, shutdown, speed limit defense then that is just unrealistic. They need to improve and need more consistent effort, focus, and intensity on defense but just realize this is an offense first team and some may never be happy with the defense.
I said the same type of things while watching the second half “where is the defensive intensity?” “Pike can’t be happy right now with this defense and effort”. Give them time but if the expectation is for this group to be a lockdown, shutdown, speed limit defense then that is just unrealistic. They need to improve and need more consistent effort, focus, and intensity on defense but just realize this is an offense first team and some may never be happy with the defense.
I don't like this take at all. Jwill can give us something on both ends of the floor. I know everybody is Gaga over Derkack right now, but I wasn't gaga with him at St. Johns - I felt he looked overmatched at times. Derkack has looked great against the cupcakes, but they are leaving after this week and will be replaced by real comp - let's see how impactful he is against high D1 guards. Selling on Jwill right now is the wrong approach for so many reasons - we will need him no matter how things go.
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