52

[zebnatto]

A team whose defense is supposed to be its strength just had fknFordham torch us for 52 second half points.

The majority of that, IMO, is on Pike. Since preseason I’ve been on the bandwagon that as a team with a lot of length and little quickness we are built for zone. Pike prefers man. Fine. But these guys have to be prepared to spend some stretches of games like today’s in zone. (Please don’t tell me they haven’t practiced 3-2 or 2-3 or 1-3-1. Well why the hell not!) FU hit 10 3s, Five by a 5’9” guard. No way he’d have gotten those shots against a lengthy zone. I do not get it. Keep man as your go to, but have a zone, or two, in your back pocket.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

The score was 31-23 late in the 1st half....hard to argue for a zone when before that late 3 before half went in...nobody saw 50+ in the 2nd half coming.

The thread on closing 1st halves and starting 2nd halves is the huge hurdle....you are either throwing away a good half before halftime and come out without a gameplan in the 2nd half.

You need a little more flexibility on defense, which lies with Jay Young as the assistant coach in charge of scouting and adjusting the game plans. He is probably against a zone because it's harder to rebound at times in zone...but I agree it has to be mixed in...the screen and roll against our bigs, is scary right now.

 

[sct1111]

Honor was lights out. If he has an average game we win.

 

[biazza38]

Zone is lazy and is for teams who can’t do squat. We should all riot outside the RAC and call for Pike to be fired

 

[zebnatto]

The score was 31-23 late in the 1st half....hard to argue for a zone when before that late 3 before half went in...nobody saw 50+ in the 2nd half coming.

The thread on closing 1st halves and starting 2nd halves is the huge hurdle....you are either throwing away a good half before halftime and come out without a gameplan in the 2nd half.

You need a little more flexibility on defense, which lies with Jay Young as the assistant coach in charge of scouting and adjusting the game plans. He is probably against a zone because it's harder to rebound at times in zone...but I agree it has to be mixed in...the screen and roll against our bigs, is scary right now.

I don’t really think that’s a full answer. We DO have length but not quickness. How long does it take you in a 52point half to realize that maybe you should mix things up.

 

[zebnatto]

Zone is lazy and is for teams who can’t do squat. We should all riot outside the RAC and call for Pike to be fired

Zone is lazy and is for teams who can’t do squat. We should all riot outside the RAC and call for Pike to be fired

Tha is the most idiotic, uninformed statement I have ever heard. You do what works!

Why do you think it was banned in the NBA For so many years? Because it was ineffective? Remember the old Temple teams, the current ‘cuse teams?

 

[zebnatto]

Honor was lights out. If he has an average game we win.

He does not get those shots against our zone: Ron-Geo-Issa/Montez across the top.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You have finite amount of practice time. The team is very young. There are only so many things you can work on. I’d think I’d spend time working in defending high screens over junk zone defenses.

 

[zebnatto]

You have finite amount of practice time. The team is very young. There are only so many things you can work on. I’d think I’d spend time working in defending high screens over junk zone defenses.

A team has to have a zone it can go to, no way I buy this “ finite amount of practice time.” Teams shift in and out of zone all the time. Come on. Since when did 3-2 or 2-3 zones become “junk zone defenses.”

Two straw man arguments.

 

[RUChow]

You have finite amount of practice time. The team is very young. There are only so many things you can work on. I’d think I’d spend time working in defending high screens over junk zone defenses.

You could work on defending the high screen with Doorson for 100 years - it won't make any difference. Most every kid at this level already knows how to play 2-3 zone, but not all already know how to play man-to-man the proper way. You could have almost put in an effective 2-3 zone at half time yesterday. Regardless, it won't take a lot of time in practice.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

The defense Rutgers basketball will play is man to man. During his time at Rutgers we have been a good defensive basketball team. Since we had a half where we gave up 52 points we are all of a sudden going to say we should play zone? That isn't who we are and what we want to be.

We are a major conference basketball team playing an A10 school. I'd be the 1st one killing the coaching staff for changing out of the defense we are. We aren't a zone team and we shouldn't be a zone team, especially vs Fordham.

It was a terrible and disgusting half. Let's move on and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. We didn't get torched because of the defense we played. We got torched based on a hot shooter and poor play.

Nuts said we should have pressed. I don't agree 100%, but get his point and might concede he could be right. When we press we fall back to man to man. Falling in to a zone is just stupid and being a Monday morning QB.

If you want to make another argument you can argue about personnel and not having any 5 on the court. I'd buy that. This could have been a game where Doorson played 5 minutes.

 

[RUChow]

Yes, we did get torched because of the defense we played. We also made BU look like Duke on offense at times, and should have probably lost that game also. I'm not against man. I would rather play it than zone, but never playing it with our personnel makes zero sense. And as far as the amount of time it takes to implement a zone in practice - one of the reasons teams play zone is it allows you time to work on other things (offense) more in practice.

 

[zebnatto]

The defense Rutgers basketball will play is man to man. During his time at Rutgers we have been a good defensive basketball team. Since we had a half where we gave up 52 points we are all of a sudden going to say we should play zone? That isn't who we are and what we want to be.

We are a major conference basketball team playing an A10 school. I'd be the 1st one killing the coaching staff for changing out of the defense we are. We aren't a zone team and we shouldn't be a zone team, especially vs Fordham.

It was a terrible and disgusting half. Let's move on and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. We didn't get torched because of the defense we played. We got torched based on a hot shooter and poor play.

Nuts said we should have pressed. I don't agree 100%, but get his point and might concede he could be right. When we press we fall back to man to man. Falling in to a zone is just stupid and being a Monday morning QB.

If you want to make another argument you can argue about personnel and not having any 5 on the court. I'd buy that. This could have been a game where Doorson played 5 minutes.

Bull. From the time you looked at the lineup You could see this would be a Good zone team. No Monday,morning qbcking. Same scenario v St. Johnnies. No one has said we should abandon man; it is not an A or B question. The “who we are “ argument holds no water. It’s malpractice for an NCAA team not to know how to switch into zone even for a few minutes at a time to break rhythm. (Zone, as you seem to suggest, is not about a lack of manliness.) No on could cover the kid.

 

[RUChow]

Another reason to play some zone with this team is that we spend so much energy at both ends of the floor with the offense we run. Spending less energy will allow us to use fewer players and our better players.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

You guys are so short sighted it is ridiculous.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Zones don't work if you don't know how to play them. How many possessions have most of our players played zone in their collegiate career?

This is not hitting the A button on your X box controller and toggling between man and zone.

Next when the New England Patriots get shutout in the 2nd half let's question why Bellicheck didn't go to the spread offense.

What zone works against guys hitting 25 foot shots?

 

[Andrew Donnelly]

We 100% ran some zone in Pike’s year 1. Cant remember if he did at all last season

 

[zebnatto]

Zones don't work if you don't know how to play them. How many possessions have most of our players played zone in their collegiate career?

This is not hitting the A button on your X box controller and toggling between man and zone.

Next when the New England Patriots get shutout in the 2nd half let's question why Bellicheck didn't go to the spread offense.

What zone works against guys hitting 25 foot shots?

“If they don’t know how to play them”: duh, They should know how to play one, and for some reason you think I’m talking about a single half rather than using that as an example.

“How many possessions have they played”? By that logic we will never switch to zone because we haven’t switched to zone.

Of course, a (2-3) or a three across of 6’6, 6’5, and 6’10 for the moments Issa was in would have had no impact on a 5’9” guard. Nah, no way.

Your comments are circular: we shouldn’t ever play zone because we haven’t played zone.


Too much tunnel vision.

 

[RUChow]

Zones don't work if you don't know how to play them. How many possessions have most of our players played zone in their collegiate career?

This is not hitting the A button on your X box controller and toggling between man and zone.

Next when the New England Patriots get shutout in the 2nd half let's question why Bellicheck didn't go to the spread offense.

What zone works against guys hitting 25 foot shots?

I not sure you really understand zone technique, how to teach it, and why, contrary to the layman's belief, it is effective vs. outside shooting given the right personnel. It is almost like hitting the A button.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

So were you going to switch to zone when?

 

[FELONIOUSMONK]

B ..
52....Love Shack baby..

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I not sure you really understand zone technique, how to teach it, and why, contrary to the layman's belief, it is effective vs. outside shooting given the right personnel. It is almost like hitting the A button.

I think i understand zone defenses and no it is not like hitting the "A" button.

 

[richthedentist]

Yeah if we ran a zone they would have torched us for more 3 pointers in the second half!!

 

[zebnatto]

Yeah if we ran a zone they would have torched us for more 3 pointers in the second half!!

Not at this level with our size. That’s not how it works.

 

[Russ Wood]

Honor was lights out. If he has an average game we win.

Maybe, maybe not.

He averages around 18 ppg. If he hits his average the other 12 points might have been distributed among his teammates. Then again they may not have. There's no way to know for certain.

 

[Skull83]

I thought this was going to be a thread about Eric LeGrand

 

[Degaz-RU]

We didn't lose the game solely because Honor "got hot" from three-point range, as if to suggest he could have ALSO hit those threes against a 2-3 zone, and thus a 2-3 zone would have been fruitless.

We lost the game because the high screen and roll action was so effective that it opened up the offense to get WIDE-OPEN threes in rhythm, because Honor was either able to get around the pick and distribute while driving, or, because Baker/Mathis were anticipating having to fight through a pick, Honor was able to FAKE the screen and roll and simply get open for his own three.

NONE of that would have been possible if we played 2-3 zone in the second half. The zone would have changed Fordham's entire offensive strategy, and the threes would had to have come a different way. Of course, this is no GUARANTEE that they would not have hit threes, but it was certainly worth trying to change up the defense to stop what looked like an UNSTOPPABLE screen-and-roll offense run to perfection by Honor.

Nobody is saying we have to become Syracuse in playing 2-3 zone the entire game. But what coach doesn't at least TRY to mix up the defense when the defense he's playing is getting absolutely TORCHED? Pike simply got out-coached in this game.

 

[Scangg]

Coaches could have tried zone for at least a possession or two or tried to press to break the rhythm. I would have just stuck Mathis on Honor all game.

Acting like D1 basketball players can't play zone for a possession or two is just laughable. Playing zone as your primary defense you obviously would want extensive practice time dedicated to it. Switching for a possession or two doesn't require that level of detail. It's more about showing a different look and changing the opponents rhythm

 

[dpwhite]

We played zone here or there in Pikiell's first two years. Usually throwing it out there to throw teams off their rhythm, so Pikiell is not averse to it. But I'm starting to think--since we didn't throw it out against St. John's or other times--Pikiell is really trying to develop this team's defense so it is ready to go in Jan/Feb and beyond... even if it means a slip up like yesterday. I'm just speculating.

 

[zebnatto]

Go Rutgers! Beat SHU!

 

[RUich]

This team is just not the same in the second halves of games. Big leads just vanish.
Beginning to think it is a Rutgers thing as the women are just like the men in this regard.