I would be shocked if we put forth any effort at all vs UMd - note the horrific performance at home on senior day albeit against a strong team. This is going to be very, very ugly.
Ash's Hubris
- Thread starter CuredbywinningRU
- Start date
Ash did the Nobel thing and coached Ohio State instead of teaching rebounding, I mean watching last years film and evaluating the talent he had. Ash has proved he is nothing more than a arrogant pumpkin headed ass. If he had done some research on the team he would have understood the following:
1. He had no QB that could throw more than 10 yards on the team. If he knew this he wouldn't have run Russo off. Even though the system wasn't a perfect fit, what we've all seen this year leads us to believe that a competent QB, even pro style, would be more successful than any QB that can't throw for 10 yards.
2. If Ash were around he would know he did not have a competent kickoff or fg guy. Something he would sorely need and could have gotten late.
3. He would know Turay was his best DE and would have worked with him. Even if there were issues he might have understood that the kid has talent that is worth working with.
4. He would have known hicks was a stud. Far better than Goodwin. Maybe he needs work protecting the QB but they all suck. If hicks gets one of them hurt just run another in there.
5. He would know what blocking schemes work with the OL. Most of them were here last year and they were a decent squad. When they struggled this year it would be easy to revert to what they did in the past if you had a clue.
6. Most important Ash could have spent some time looking for some real co-ordinaries. Meyer and Hermann really played some nasty tricks on him. Kept him busy and convinced Ash that Bozo boy Meringher was boy genius. What a cluster.
1. He had no QB that could throw more than 10 yards on the team. If he knew this he wouldn't have run Russo off. Even though the system wasn't a perfect fit, what we've all seen this year leads us to believe that a competent QB, even pro style, would be more successful than any QB that can't throw for 10 yards.
2. If Ash were around he would know he did not have a competent kickoff or fg guy. Something he would sorely need and could have gotten late.
3. He would know Turay was his best DE and would have worked with him. Even if there were issues he might have understood that the kid has talent that is worth working with.
4. He would have known hicks was a stud. Far better than Goodwin. Maybe he needs work protecting the QB but they all suck. If hicks gets one of them hurt just run another in there.
5. He would know what blocking schemes work with the OL. Most of them were here last year and they were a decent squad. When they struggled this year it would be easy to revert to what they did in the past if you had a clue.
6. Most important Ash could have spent some time looking for some real co-ordinaries. Meyer and Hermann really played some nasty tricks on him. Kept him busy and convinced Ash that Bozo boy Meringher was boy genius. What a cluster.
More mouth than brains here; that's for sure.
I listened to Ash's post game press conference. All he says is "we have to get better". He says nothing of substance, and never articulates a plan.
I have been worried since Coach Ash was hired and he has done nothing to ease my worry. I wish I understood why everyone is so pleased with him as a coach, recruiter, leader, etc...
I have been worried since Coach Ash was hired and he has done nothing to ease my worry. I wish I understood why everyone is so pleased with him as a coach, recruiter, leader, etc...
You would probably be happy with Dantonio coaching - who is now 3-8 and tied with Rutgers for being winless in B1G. You cant win in this league with a team of ham and eggers - which is what RU has. You could see in first game RU was a slow and unexplosive team. At least RU is one of least penalized teams (Ash) and prior to PSU the defense was ranked 6th in nation for red zone defense (Ash).
Bottom line is that this team had AAC talent. Talent that only won that league once in a 5 hundred team tie. We were competitive at that level. It will take a few years to change that level across the board and hopefully Ash's experience at Wiscy and OSU have taught him what that talent looks like while in HS and how to recruit it. However, whether he is a HC is still an unknown. You can't make that decision after one year, let us not forget that Flood won his first 7 and most people thought we had found this gem of a coach, how did that work out? The staff has made many head scratching decisions this year but the key is whether or not they learn from those decisions or not. It will take a year or two to find that out. If it works out, fine, if it doesn't work then Hobbs MUST hire a HC with p5 experience
I think Ash will work out pretty well, but as you say, it will take time.
If, however, he doesn't work out after some time, I really think RU has to go after a huge name coach. Not just an experienced p5 coach.
The only way this program can improve to a point that the fanbase will build is via successive years of really strong recruiting - better recruiting than we've ever had. The only way to be certain to improve recruiting to that degree (for Rutgers, in this area with so many other entertainment options for potential fans) is to hire a coach that can absolutely positively recruit by his name alone, regardless of the geographic location, or the state of the program, or the lack of winning history at the program, etc.
Given the limited program budget, hiring Ash was a good fit. Although unproven as a HC, he has experience in winning programs and suited the program's available $. His assembling a staff? Well, again, the available budget and his experience limited his options and choices. Was he going to get it completely right in his first pass? No. Now, while he can make staff adjustments, doing so may jeopardize those recruits who were courted by staffers whose heads many of you are calling for, a move that could undermine any gains in bringing in talent that's better suited to Ash's philosophy/plan.
It's painful, for sure, to witness the struggles, the performance/decisions of staff, and, of some players. Many fans/alums expected some sort of miracle, as if "things" would fall into place, smoothly, in the Flood-to-Ash transition. As is, this first year, "we" were close and competitive in a few losses, games that could have gone our way. But they did not. Aggravating it were four those blowout whoopins'.
Looking ahead, short term, say the next two years, we can make solid progress. Next season, winning those close games, and avoiding the runaway blowouts would be an acceptable and realistic show of progress. That's within the reach of this staff, with some tweaking. But we are four years away from having the B1G $ that will help get us over the hump. Until then, reset expectations. Stay the course. And, importantly, show support. Go RU!!!
It's painful, for sure, to witness the struggles, the performance/decisions of staff, and, of some players. Many fans/alums expected some sort of miracle, as if "things" would fall into place, smoothly, in the Flood-to-Ash transition. As is, this first year, "we" were close and competitive in a few losses, games that could have gone our way. But they did not. Aggravating it were four those blowout whoopins'.
Looking ahead, short term, say the next two years, we can make solid progress. Next season, winning those close games, and avoiding the runaway blowouts would be an acceptable and realistic show of progress. That's within the reach of this staff, with some tweaking. But we are four years away from having the B1G $ that will help get us over the hump. Until then, reset expectations. Stay the course. And, importantly, show support. Go RU!!!
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Even if this team has AAC talent, we should be able to score some points and move the ball. Actual AAC teams are able to do it with worse.
Teams that have scored points against teams that shut us out: Hawaii, Bowling Green, Kent State, Furman, Tulsa, UCF, Pittsburgh (won), Temple.
Through 12 weeks, Big 10 teams have managed 5 shutouts. 4 of them are against us. Ash needs to change something. His decision to coach Ohio State through bowl games seems really bad now.
Teams that have scored points against teams that shut us out: Hawaii, Bowling Green, Kent State, Furman, Tulsa, UCF, Pittsburgh (won), Temple.
Through 12 weeks, Big 10 teams have managed 5 shutouts. 4 of them are against us. Ash needs to change something. His decision to coach Ohio State through bowl games seems really bad now.
IMO, you were doing fine with that post until your last sentence.
Your point about having four out of five B1G shutouts is a good point, although we have to consider other factors here: we're learning a new offense, we're even less talented on O than D, comparative situations w/other programs, and so forth. But still it's a reasonable, logical point.
But your last sentence strikes me as lacking a logical foundation. I don't see how Ash having not coached out the season for OSU would've made any perceptible difference of any kind. He hired the people he wanted to hire anyway. He recruited what was available anyway. What difference would it have made?
Anyone watching our football team this year has every right to be concerned. You needn't look too much further than the stat sheet from Saturday night. 87 total yards for a division 1 football team is alarming. Coupled with Coaches inability to articulate his plan, or the vision he refers to during a press conference is troublesome to say the least.
Because I see no sign of tangible coaching ability, I am starting to believe this coaching staff is going to bury our program for a very long time.
The main issue this year has been running no huddle spread with pro style offense players. Defense plays good for a quarter or two, and then tires and finally gives up after the offense is unable to move the chains. My hope is that this will change when we get no huddle spread players. So yes I totally agree this recruiting class is hugely important. We lost 2 three star running backs, but added one recently (the guy who originally signed with Navy). Beating Maryland would help. Getting blown out would be extremely troublesome.
Tell that to the guys on the team that it's a throw away year. He owed it to the players to coach every game to win. That's what coaches are paid to do, win. If he had to adjust the offense to get that done so be it, but he didn't. He presided over one of the most embarrassing years in Rutgers history. Time will tell if he is successful, but as far as his performance to date, he still presides over one of the most embarrassing years in Rutgers history.
Everyone is pleased with him? Not close to being true. It would help if people who don't like Ash's hire recognized that nobody is saying they love the hire because it is too early to tell. What some people are saying, and there is legitimate ground for adopting the position, is that turning around a dumpster fire takes more than a season, and we simply don't know how bad the damage was over the course of the previous regime. A new coach needs time, typically three years, so those who aren't slamming Ash aren't saying that they love the results, what is being said is that he needs (and gets) another two years at minimum to make changes, assess those changes, adjust, and continue recruiting. One thing is guaranteed, and it's that if Ash & Co. were to be fired (which is stupid, as Ash isn't going anywhere) the recruiting class would fall apart and we would be back to Square 1. At least we have the hope of a good recruiting class, and we have to keep that hope going.
I think it's natural and likely, specifically if it's the same athletic director, that after a failure they wouldn't go back to the same well. Personally, I don't agree with that. Every year there's a new landscape of coaches that are available and to me you choose the best one who you think fits for your school. If it's a P5 fine, if it's a coordinator fine, if it's a mid major HC fine but personally don't like the idea of limiting yourself and every year the set of coaches available is different.
There are P5 coaches that fail too. Just look at Charlie Strong. You get failures and successes from all pools of coaches. There are very few "proven" HCs out there even though that term gets thrown out all the time. It's a select group like Meyer, Saban and maybe a few others.
So whenever there's failure I think it's likely and a natural instinct to go to a different pool but to me every search is a fresh slate with a fresh slate of candidates. You shouldn't limit yourself specifically when there really isn't a pattern where you can say for sure this well is better for coaching candidates than this one.
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I've been concerned for years. I'm less concerned this year. I suspect I'll be even less concerned after next season.
We didn't instantly become bad this season. We were NEVER particularly good, except for a couple seasons back in the Leonard/Rice years. We made bowls by beating mostly middle-of-the-road or worse teams.
Well we're not playing many of those sorts of teams anymore. Half our schedule each year from now on are going to be teams that are middle-of-the-road or much, much better. Lower tier Big Ten teams have bad records not because they suck, but because they are competing in a very strong conference.
Schiano built the program and got us on the right path, then left for the NFL. We hired Flood which was a mistake. Unlike many here, I don't blame the guy. He was simply in over his head, just like it looked like he would be on paper when he was hired.
Now we are suffering from the results of that downturn. And that mistake was NEVER going to be turned around in a single season. Or even two single seasons.
Recruiting is going to be a very difficult, very uphill battle for any coach not named Saban or Meyer or someone relatively close to that kind of name recognition. It can be done - but it won't be easy and it can easily go wrong in any year.
But in order to compete with the middle and upper tier Big Ten teams, we must recruit a lot better than even in the best of Schiano years and do it year in and year out.
That's the reality.
Blaming Ash for this reality he inherited is ridiculous. Nebraska, who is a massively better football program than us (based on results), lost to OSU by roughly 60 points this season. So why people expect Ash to have done better before he's had a chance to try to improve recruiting, before he's had multiple years of reps in coaching the systems he wants us to play, before he's had the time it takes to turn around a football culture rooted in mediocrity... it goes beyond impatience and approaches insanity.
Baring some huge name coach coming here, this was going to be a multiple year rebuild and was always going to have it's ups and downs. This year was a down, and there's a good chance next year will be too. But since RU isn't about to fire Ash and hire some huge name coach, we might as well do our best to support him and give him a little rope over a few years before we all start judging him.
spot on really but you are spitting in the wind here. Apparently it's all Flood's fault and our talent blows. Never mind numerous teams we could have beaten have taken top teams to the collective wire
Me too. He may or may not realize that vision, but he's going to need some time to implement it.
how is he wrong Fanu? Ash should have been here day 1 evaluating and prepping and that is not debatable. Our OC, putting it nicely, SUCKS
I can go on but it's hard to argue that we've shown no improvement at all this year and Ash doesn't look like he can make adjustments
It appears Ash and his entire coaching staff can't make adjustments.
look I want the guy to succeed but there is NOTHING that he has shown that says he will. He's a flawed hire, we need to get out of this contract now and restart
I have been in sharp disagreement with Cured and other current Ash critics before, but let's be real here.
- We set a record in D1 in punts
- We got blanked 4 times in one season (didn't even happen during the Shea years). That includes a team with 2 other wins.
- This was a program that went from 2005-2015 with three losing seasons, one after a paralyzed player and another was 6-7.
2 wins is wholly unacceptable. We had 4 last year, with a ton more distraction.
Vision and recruiting are nice. What recruits are going to stick around for this? What's the vision, better than 2 wins? Whoopty frikin doo.
I am not saying that Ash should be fired. But comparing what he inherited to what GS inherited is a joke. There are a lot of coaches that would have stepped in and I can assure you won a few B1G games and not gotten blanked 4 times. A lot.
- We set a record in D1 in punts
- We got blanked 4 times in one season (didn't even happen during the Shea years). That includes a team with 2 other wins.
- This was a program that went from 2005-2015 with three losing seasons, one after a paralyzed player and another was 6-7.
2 wins is wholly unacceptable. We had 4 last year, with a ton more distraction.
Vision and recruiting are nice. What recruits are going to stick around for this? What's the vision, better than 2 wins? Whoopty frikin doo.
I am not saying that Ash should be fired. But comparing what he inherited to what GS inherited is a joke. There are a lot of coaches that would have stepped in and I can assure you won a few B1G games and not gotten blanked 4 times. A lot.
He's not going anywhere for at least three years. So if you truly want him to succeed, quit trying to be prophetic (which will buy you nothing) and get behind him for those three years (which will cost you nothing).
I called him coaching tenure after game 1 and I stand by that. We will want him gone 'officially' by year 3 but will wait to year 4 because of the contract because we are cheap.
He is not the answer so the sooner people realize that, the better off the fanbase will be. For God's sake, he can't even make adjustments! What coach are you people watching here?
I want all RU coaches to win, and win bigly. I am absolutely not saying he should be fired. But in order to build trust, I would like to see a change at OC, at a minimum, to show the fanbase that he recognizes this season fell below even the bottom basement expectations we had. I will still be there, in the cold, or at noon, or whatever, but I need to see some flicker of change.
You appear to think being "right" might gain you something here. But it's intuitively obvious to even the most casual observer that, just like the everybody else, all you can do is make guesses. Saying any coach that's not a Meyer and Saban will fail at RU is simply playing the odds.
So if Ash doesn't work out, nobody is going to be handing you any crystal ball trophies. Even an entirely non-functioning broken clock is right twice a day.
No way. Wouldn't hurt for Ash to bring in an experienced OC as a co-OC or something. But Mehringer is clearly very smart and hard working and seems to connect with recruits. What Mehringer needs is weapons and a bit more experience (which having an experienced co-OC would help). Once has has that, if he still can't get it done, then cut him lose. Until then, it's premature.
hardly so let's get off the faux psycho nonesense here. Your inference isn't even remotely related to this conversation.
why don't you ask Ash why he thinks boy wonder called a great game the other night?
Fire Ash and hire who. A quick firing of Ash when he inherited a team that was in total disarray last year and has very little talent from Floods 4 years of bad recruiting is a total panick move. No coach in his right mind would want to come here.
At the very beginning of the season a lot of people predicted a 2 to 4 win year. New coaches, new schemes, and no talent in not a winning combination.
You go ahead and keep making predictions. I'm going to support the staff, the players and the program and let things play out. Because I actually realize that being non-stop negative about any of it has no possible benefit to anyone and just makes people miserable.
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Trolls smell blood in the water, and are out in force.
Hubris? Saying that the entire program was broken (down to the paint on the walls) and needed to be fixed was hubris? Seemed to me like that was trying to temper unrealistic expectations of the fanbase more than anything else.
That's not saying Ash will be the program savior or that everything will work out - but anyone who thought we had a shot in hell of being close to competitive this season (especially after removing Grant and Lambert in the 4th game) was delusional.
Hubris? Saying that the entire program was broken (down to the paint on the walls) and needed to be fixed was hubris? Seemed to me like that was trying to temper unrealistic expectations of the fanbase more than anything else.
That's not saying Ash will be the program savior or that everything will work out - but anyone who thought we had a shot in hell of being close to competitive this season (especially after removing Grant and Lambert in the 4th game) was delusional.
This isn't related to Ash as much as just any new executive taking over. You see it when new CEOs takeover a struggling company. Sometimes kitchen sink all the bad news into a qtr and they get a nice clean slate to work with and a very very low bar to cross over. Now sometimes it's warranted and sometimes it just the new CEO making it easier on himself by lowering expectations below where they realistically should be.
All I ask from Ash right now is to: (1) keep the recruiting class together; and (2) identify the magnitude of some of the shortcomings this season. The defense wasn't exactly good, but I think there was enough there to suggest that the DC has the potential to get the job done. However, the results on offense are so alarming I think Ash has no choice but to AT LEAST bring in a co-OC. And PLEASE bring in a D1 punter and kicker.
Did not run off Russo and did bring in a kicker, who was highly ranked by one of the leading services. That were just his first two points.
He did run off Russo making it clear to him that he wouldn't fit in the system. He did bring in a kicker that can't kick past the 20. Get the facts straight. Our coaches stood on the field when the kid kicked and evaluated him. You and I could tell how far he could and couldn't kick. Not that hard to measure when the ball comes down.
