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B1G coaches want conference to act regarding sign stealing

Here's a proposal...

Suspend the entire UM coaching staff for the rest of the season, effective immediately. Fine of the equivalent of the entire coaching staff's salaries and bonuses for the period in which they have been cheating. Suspension of all recruiting activities for football for the rest of the season and restrict their ability to use the transfer portal to bring players in next season. Plus, a post season ban this year and next.

One. It punishes the staff. Players stay eligible, even though they benefitted. Fine the crap out of the school - make the UM administration fire the staff with cause and try to claw back their salaries in the process. Instead of taking away wins, essentially put them in a position where they lose two years of development by not being able to recruit or bring in transfers.
 
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Player's stay eligible??? With no coach staff there won't be any games. You might try to think these things out before you post.
 
Here's an odd thought.

In situations where you find something that you didn't think existed I always say, "where there's one, there's more".. like grabbing the "last" can of beer in a giant ice bucket. if you found one, there is likely another... until there ain't.

So.. we found that Michigan was sending people to video future foe signs.

Do we think they were the only one with such an operation?

I think not. They might be the only Big Ten team.. but the only one in college football? I'd love to think it is possible they are the only one. But that SEC... c'mon... someone else is doing it.
 
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rutgersguy1 said:
Some probably knew and some probably were don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Who knows which is which and who is to know which ones actually knew how far things went. That's part of why it will take some time.

Everyone wants a head but it doesn't mean they will get one, at least not right away.

The only thing I could find possibly realistic for this season is a Harbaugh suspension but even that could be challenged by Harbaugh. The process has to play out and that will take time. The NCAA moves at a glacial pace and the B10 doesn't have investigators.


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From the article:

Petitti could choose to do nothing, citing the need for the NCAA to finish its investigation, and deal with any fallout after the season.

He could invoke the league’s sportsmanship policy and do something drastic like make Michigan ineligible for the Big Ten title.

Or he could find some sort of middle ground like suspending coach Jim Harbaugh, which would suggest the seriousness of the allegations against Michigan but not prevent the team from pursuing its competitive goals.

But all of those options, and perhaps some others being discussed among Big Ten administrators right now, are problematic.

If Petitti concludes that Michigan’s conduct was egregious enough to forfeit games or be banned from the postseason, he risks being accused of overreach and punishing players who — at least to this point — likely have no culpability in the ethical breach that was committed.

And even if he were to put the punishment on Harbaugh, which might be the path of least resistance, there’s a huge risk in sparking an ugly legal fight that would leave everyone sullied to some degree. After all, nothing so far has connected Harbaugh to the alleged activities of Connor Stalions, a low-level staffer who was apparently sending associates all over the country to film the sidelines of future and potential Michigan opponents in an attempt to decipher their signals.
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My guess is nothing happens until after the season is over. That way if they vacate wins nobody really cares in the end. Punishment without punishment. One of the more obnoxious things about contemporary America's "leaders" is their huge salaries coupled with an ability to evade accountability. Remember WorldCom, where the CEO claimed he had no idea the books were being cooked to the point of absurdity? "I'm only the CEO. I can't be expected to know what's happening at the highest levels in the company I get paid millions to run--and certainly I can't be held responsible if I didn't do my job and look out for the company!" A HC who claims he didn't know one of his staff was stealing signs is 1000000% full of sh t, or at least an idiot.
 
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GoodOl'Rutgers said:
Here's an odd thought.

In situations where you find something that you didn't think existed I always say, "where there's one, there's more".. like grabbing the "last" can of beer in a giant ice bucket. if you found one, there is likely another... until there ain't.

So.. we found that Michigan was sending people to video future foe signs.

Do we think they were the only one with such an operation?

I think not. They might be the only Big Ten team.. but the only one in college football? I'd love to think it is possible they are the only one. But that SEC... c'mon... someone else is doing it.
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Almost certainly Michigan fans are right to say they're not the only ones. No way there aren't others. They all should be punished.
 
brgRC90 said:
Almost certainly Michigan fans are right to say they're not the only ones. No way there aren't others. They all should be punished.
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Well that's why I said I "thank" Michigan for this. For sure there are others but they haven't been dumb enough to be caught.

It's just like paying players. It was illegal but you know plenty of schools, especially ones with more resources were doing it. Now anyone can pay players so theoretically the playing field is level at least.

Same for this. You'd think this will fast track helmet communication and such. It should level the playing field so those who were skirting the rules on "spy games" don't have an unfair advantage anymore.
 
rutgersguy1 said:
Well that's why I said I "thank" Michigan for this. For sure there are others but they haven't been dumb enough to be caught.

It's just like paying players. It was illegal but you know plenty of schools, especially ones with more resources were doing it. Now anyone can pay players so theoretically the playing field is level at least.

Same for this. You'd think this will fast track helmet communication and such. It should level the playing field so those who were skirting the rules on "spy games" don't have an unfair advantage anymore.
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We can only hope. The sport looks the other way at cheating until the cheating is so obvious it becomes public scandal they can't just sweep under the rug. Might as well as drag it into the light.
 
WhiteBus said:
Player's stay eligible??? With no coach staff there won't be any games. You might try to think these things out before you post.
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I thought it up perfectly. They can name an interim staff, they can have the players call their own plays, whatever they so choose, as long as it's not with the current staff.
 
RUevolution36 said:
I thought it up perfectly. They can name an interim staff, they can have the players call their own plays, whatever they so choose, as long as it's not with the current staff.
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An interim staff?? No you certainly have not thought through this at all.
 
WhiteBus said:
An interim staff?? No you certainly have not thought through this at all.
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I completely have. You can get Bob and crew from a local high school for the time being. Who gives a crap? Why try to protect a program that has been cheating for years?
 
RUevolution36 said:
I completely have. You can get Bob and crew from a local high school for the time being. Who gives a crap? Why try to protect a program that has been cheating for years?
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No you can't get Bob and crew from a HS team. That is the dumbest thing Ive heard on here.
 
WhiteBus said:
No you can't get Bob and crew from a HS team. That is the dumbest thing Ive heard on here.
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and why not? isn't the objective to apply extremely punitive consequences to blatant rule breaking? or do you want to sympathize with a program that has used that advantage to beat the crap out of us the last couple of years?
 
RUevolution36 said:
and why not? isn't the objective to apply extremely punitive consequences to blatant rule breaking? or do you want to sympathize with a program that has used that advantage to beat the crap out of us the last couple of years?
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So punish the players too? Where they stealing signs?
 
Many of you are being unfair......don't you realize that Michigan is the self-proclaimed "Harvard of the Midwest." Everybody else is below them.
 
RUevolution36 said:
and why not? isn't the objective to apply extremely punitive consequences to blatant rule breaking? or do you want to sympathize with a program that has used that advantage to beat the crap out of us the last couple of years?
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Won't this put them over the staff limits imposed by NCAA?

For example, when HC Harbaugh was suspended - they couldn't hire an 11th on field staff member for a couple weeks.
 
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RUevolution36 said:
they benefitted from sign stealing. may have improved their draft stock because of it. who knows. that's acceptable collateral damage imo.
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You came up with the stupid "keep the players eligible" nonsense. What the hell for? To embarrass them?
 
mildone said:
BTW, the inverse of the meme is also true. People who often find themselves having to state "I'm not an idiot" in conversations might wanna step back and reevaluate.
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What's the old saying? "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
 
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NickRU714 said:
Won't this put them over the staff limits imposed by NCAA?

For example, when HC Harbaugh was suspended - they couldn't hire an 11th on field staff member for a couple weeks.
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hmm, fair point. their backup qb and 3rd string MLB can call plays then.
 
rutgersguy1 said:
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This mentions what I've said with regards to the move away from punishments that affects players that didn't do anything. Also mention of relying on NCAA investigators, which I've mentioned won't move fast enough for this season.

From the article:

This is an unprecedented situation; whatever Petitti decides to do (or not do) will set a precedent. The Big Ten itself doesn’t have investigators, so it needs to rely upon the NCAA to do that part — and to determine who else was involved in the alleged scouting scheme. It’s not clear exactly what the coaches would want the league to do to punish Michigan; banning the team from competing in the Big Ten championship, for example, would harm players who had nothing to do with the sign-stealing apparatus.
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I slightly disagree, the players on the field had to know they were receiving play calls that were 80-100% accurate. Nice to know that the next play is run or pass and to the left or right. There is also no way the DC and head coach wasn’t aware of what was happening
 
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robjknight said:
I slightly disagree, the players on the field had to know they were receiving play calls that were 80-100% accurate. Nice to know that the next play is run or pass and to the left or right. There is also no way the DC and head coach wasn’t aware of what was happening
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I'd be surprised if any or many knew what was going on behind the scenes and were just following coaches' cues.

Who is to say what games it worked and what games it didn't or how many plays it worked for and how many it didn't. Stalions was there since 2019 and they got really good in 2021. He was there around Don Brown in one video I posted and Don Brown basically was pushed out because they weren't doing good enough on defense against OSU. So was it not working back then, were they not doing it even though Stalions was there? I mean who knows. So if you're a player why would you think any shady stuff is going on because Stalions has been there since 2019 at least and they weren't killing it til 2021. As players you just follow orders from your coach and whatever coaching they give you.
 
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They apparently cheated in every single game this year. They had a huge advantage. How can you allow them to play in any post season games when they used illegal means to get there? Yes, the players will be penalized, but anything short of a bowl ban will be a joke.
 
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the mere fact anyone thinks players haven't benefited from this is ridiculous

vacate wins, no cfp, take schollies away and harbaugh leaves
 
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rutgersguy1 said:
I'd be surprised if any or many knew what was going on behind the scenes and were just following coaches' cues.

Who is to say what games it worked and what games it didn't or how many plays it worked for and how many it didn't. Stalions was there since 2019 and they got really good in 2021. He was there around Don Brown in one video I posted and Don Brown basically was pushed out because they weren't doing good enough on defense against OSU. So was it not working back then, were they not doing it even though Stalions was there? I mean who knows. So if you're a player why would you think any shady stuff is going on because Stalions has been there since 2019 at least and they weren't killing it til 2021. As players you just follow orders from your coach and whatever coaching they give you.
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doesn't mean they didn't benefit

the players, by virtue of the record and increased scouting alone benefited
 
RUTGERS95 said:
the mere fact anyone thinks players haven't benefited from this is ridiculous

vacate wins, no cfp, take schollies away and harbaugh leaves
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The point isn’t about whether they benefited but whether they knew and to what extent if they did know.

I’d think most players follow coaches orders and instructions and aren’t thinking about anything beyond that.
 
rutgersguy1 said:
The point isn’t about whether they benefited but whether they knew and to what extent if they did know.

I’d think most players follow coaches orders and instructions and aren’t thinking about anything beyond that.
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no question but people are less inclined to hammer Michigan because they think the kids didn't benefit from the cheating. That is absolutely not the case

I also think that kids should look at the coaching staffs and history of the school for ncaa sanctions etc.. It's all part of the decision and if it hurts michigan then fk them
 
WhiteBus said:
So punish the players too? Where they stealing signs?
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They were using them. Yeah.. players had to be conscious on some level that this was going on... that they KNEW what play was coming and that that knowledge came from their sideline. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned this... and it rang true to me. These players.. and what they "accomplished".. is at least partially corrupted by the cheating. And since Michigan was doing this so openly, with teh prime cheater employed and on the sideline.. I can only imagine that he had a role in film sessions.

Besides.. it is not the Big Ten or NCAA pushing the players.. it is their own coaches and school who participated in the cheating. transfer out if you don't want to suffer at their hands.
 
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You can't do a punishment toward the future if you do not find a way to compensate those in the past that were the actual ones wronged in this.
 
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GoodOl'Rutgers said:
Here's an odd thought.

In situations where you find something that you didn't think existed I always say, "where there's one, there's more".. like grabbing the "last" can of beer in a giant ice bucket. if you found one, there is likely another... until there ain't.

So.. we found that Michigan was sending people to video future foe signs.

Do we think they were the only one with such an operation?

I think not. They might be the only Big Ten team.. but the only one in college football? I'd love to think it is possible they are the only one. But that SEC... c'mon... someone else is doing it.
Click to expand...
Well the other way you can take that is what other ways is Michigan cheating that hasn’t been exposed? If they’re willing to do this, why wouldn’t they cut corners in other ways?
 
GoodOl'Rutgers said:
They were using them. Yeah.. players had to be conscious on some level that this was going on... that they KNEW what play was coming and that that knowledge came from their sideline. Someone earlier in the thread mentioned this... and it rang true to me. These players.. and what they "accomplished".. is at least partially corrupted by the cheating. And since Michigan was doing this so openly, with teh prime cheater employed and on the sideline.. I can only imagine that he had a role in film sessions.

Besides.. it is not the Big Ten or NCAA pushing the players.. it is their own coaches and school who participated in the cheating. transfer out if you don't want to suffer at their hands.
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This is the thing- if proven that it was truly an institutional thing- coaches and players....yes, I would feel bad for the players who most likely felt they really couldn't say something even if they wanted to. But, we say that all the time when someone in the same situation with a criminal act gets a conviction and sentence when they did not do the crime but abided by not turning someone in.
 
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yesrutgers01 said:
This is the thing- if proven that it was truly an institutional thing- coaches and players....yes, I would feel bad for the players who most likely felt they really couldn't say something even if they wanted to. But, we say that all the time when someone in the same situation with a criminal act gets a conviction and sentence when they did not do the crime but abided by not turning someone in.
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I'm not buying the player angle as they benefited. In addition, maybe when taking schollies the fact that schools need to be honest and not have issues like should come into play. I mean it as it's no different than the 'how long are you going to be there?' my mother asked to each one.

absolutely don't care if 1 kid on the team didn't know, they ALL benefited from this in one way or another
 
RUTGERS95 said:
I'm not buying the player angle as they benefited. In addition, maybe when taking schollies the fact that schools need to be honest and not have issues like should come into play. I mean it as it's no different than the 'how long are you going to be there?' my mother asked to each one.

absolutely don't care if 1 kid on the team didn't know, they ALL benefited from this in one way or another
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I agree but they are also 17-22 kids that are hyped into an institution like Michigan. If the school/Team gets a penalty, I don't think the players should be able to just "escape" - they did benefit and they din't say anything- on the other hand- they are what you would consider "minors" and they have been given over to the coach and institution. What was a player supposed to do? Let's say they really wanted that Michigan education. Or maybe just wanted the NFL- to be the whistle blower- that could crush them even if it was the right thing to do
 
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Players benefiting from stolen signs is different than knowing how they were stolen.

The signs isn't the issue. It's how they were obtained.
Do people think players knew that guy was paying advance scouts to attend games? Or just cracking the signs based on readily available?
 
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NickRU714 said:
Players benefiting from stolen signs is different than knowing how they were stolen.

The signs isn't the issue. It's how they were obtained.
Do people think players knew that guy was paying advance scouts to attend games? Or just cracking the signs based on readily available?
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I'd like to think the players didn't know the how.
 
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