BigTen wrestling power rankings:5 thoughts on Rutgers tough weekend | Anthony Ashnault, Nick Suriano

[Tango Two]

Rutgers knew Utah Valley was going to be tough.

What it likely didn't expect, though, was how the Wolverines would end up winning.

Unranked Utah Valley's 24-14 win over the No. 15 Scarlet Knights on Saturday at the Journeyman Duals was surprising, but not shocking. The match was tight on paper due to UVU's strength in the top half of its lineup, and sure enough Rutgers lost every bout from 165 up.

But the bigger issue was what happened before then. Rutgers could have survived those losses if not for nationally-ranked John VanBrill being upset at 157 pounds and a major swing at 141 pounds.


https://www.nj.com/expo/sports/erry-2018/11/77027466189023/rutgers-wrestling-5-thoughts-a.html

 

[rondi]

It happens. Learn from it, move on from it. There’s a lot more wrestling to go. Keep your eye on the prize...MARCH onward, upward.

Go RU!
Diane

 

[RU Diesel07110]

Agree, it's earlier than early a lot of season left. That said it should be taken as a wake up call for wrestlers and coaches.

 

[JohnnyHandsome]

This isnt a wake up call. Wrestlers train like madmen in/off season. They are prepared. Fact is unranked UV was just better and places in perspective just where the Rutgers program is today

If NS didnt transfer & Ash didnt get another year, where would RU be?

Team full of tough kids. It boils down to elite talent. RU has only 2 with only one of them making an original decision to come here

 

[RU Diesel07110]

and if we had a 5th we both be drunk

 

[RutgersAlum]

This isnt a wake up call. Wrestlers train like madmen in/off season. They are prepared. Fact is unranked UV was just better and places in perspective just where the Rutgers program is today

If NS didnt transfer & Ash didnt get another year, where would RU be?

Team full of tough kids. It boils down to elite talent. RU has only 2 with only one of them making an original decision to come here

Not every elite talent pans out.I still say coach them up and prepare them to be mentally tough in finishing matches.Mike Vanbrill wins his match at 141 then there is no swing of those 6 points pin.Utah Valley did just that with their tough guys wrestling till the end.

 

[RUTrack94]

24-14 becomes 18-17 ... maybe some momentum

 

[rondi]

Johnny, if you think ONE win or loss defines a program for an entire season, I don’t know what to tell ya. :confused:

Also, I don’t see every single ELITE wrestler on the podium come NCAA time. There are upsets all the time. What I see are a mix of elite and tough wrestlers. RU has both!!

The top 3 programs are hard to beat to get those elite wrestlers, that I’ll give you. That will always be the case for all sports. But, the top 3 can’t take everybody! PSU wasn’t the top 3 until relatively recently when they got serious and funded its wrestling program & wrestling club. RU and SKWC & NJTC are now doing the same, but they don’t have that $5M sugar daddy. They don’t necessarily need one. It’ll take a village instead and fans are supporting the program physically (attendance) and financially (SKWC membership & pin pool). Plus, a new facility on a cool campus is on its way to open right next to a top business school (my alma mater).

RU wrestling program is trending upwards...one match isn’t going to derail that! Get serious. If you’re writing out of disappointment or frustration, ok, that I get. But, believe me, you aren’t anymore disappointed than those wrestlers and coaches who bust their asses every day to get better.

Go RU!
Diane

 

[koleszar]

Johnny, if you think ONE win or loss defines a program for an entire season, I don’t know what to tell ya. :confused:

Also, I don’t see every single ELITE wrestler on the podium come NCAA time. There are upsets all the time. What I see are a mix of elite and tough wrestlers. RU has both!!

The top 3 programs are hard to beat to get those elite wrestlers, that I’ll give you. That will always be the case for all sports. But, the top 3 can’t take everybody! PSU wasn’t the top 3 until relatively recently when they got serious and funded its wrestling program & wrestling club. RU and SKWC & NJTC are now doing the same, but they don’t have that $5M sugar daddy. They don’t necessarily need one. It’ll take a village instead and fans are supporting the program physically (attendance) and financially (SKWC membership & pin pool). Plus, a new facility on a cool campus is on its way to open right next to a top business school (my alma mater).

RU wrestling program is trending upwards...one match isn’t going to derail that! Get serious. If you’re writing out of disappointment or frustration, ok, that I get. But, believe me, you aren’t anymore disappointed than those wrestlers and coaches who bust their asses every day to get better.

Go RU!
Diane

Good post Diane.

I was right in Johnnies camp after this unexpected loss. I needed a little breath of fresh air after another disaster of a football season, wrestling has always been that cure. I was pretty much on the ledge but between your post and @Lex Knapp on the roundtable, I've been talked off the ledge. We weren't necessarily going to give up, but my season ticket group of nine was sorely disappointed. Hell our group is emotionally and financially in this thing as we're in the pin pool as a group. Here's hoping for better times.

 

[rondi]

I understand, Koleszar! I’m financially and emotionally invested, too! That’s the way it’s supposed to be though. I’m right there with ya!!! I squirm every match. :boxing:

Go RU!
Diane

PS. Thank you & your friends for your support to the SKWC! It’s fun to participate in the pin pool!

 

[Lex Knapp]

Good article from Nj.com. Looks kind of familiar if you ask me https://rutgers.rivals.com/news/five-takeaways-from-rutgers-journeymen-performance

Regardless, it’s still early. This team will not be the same team we see in the second half of the year, and I mean that from both a roster and development stand point. Ultimately, as someone mentioned previously, we are going to be a better tournament team than dual meet team. If JVB gets back on track, Gravina comes back healthy, the two of them AA along with Suriano and Ashnault, and then Colucci and Glasgow win a few matches and we finish top 10 or higher, none of us will remember this UVU match. Yes, I know that’s a lot, but that’s what top 10 teams do. The season is still young, and that possibility is still far from gone.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Not every elite talent pans out.I still say coach them up and prepare them to be mentally tough in finishing matches.Mike Vanbrill wins his match at 141 then there is no swing of those 6 points pin.Utah Valley did just that with their tough guys wrestling till the end.

Our miss rate is way too high. The correnti/Grello class yielded no starters except Grello. That was supposed to be one of our best classes.

Paetzrll just beat an all American. Mackall is doing well on the open circuit.

Something is off. I have no idea. I will trust the coaches to figure it out.

 

[ScottRU93]

Our miss rate is way too high. The correnti/Grello class yielded no starters except Grello. That was supposed to be one of our best classes.

Paetzrll just beat an all American. Mackall is doing well on the open circuit.

Something is off. I have no idea. I will trust the coaches to figure it out.

Paetzell knew Suriano was coming and didn’t want to sit behind him. Mackall May have thought same way but should have stuck around bc he could have been the starting 25 lber now.

I am also disappointed in the Grello class. Thought it would pan out much better. But we have 3 top recruits coming and just like all the other programs we could pick up a transfer or 2 where needed.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Paetzell knew Suriano was coming and didn’t want to sit behind him. Mackall May have thought same way but should have stuck around bc he could have been the starting 25 lber now.

I am also disappointed in the Grello class. Thought it would pan out much better. But we have 3 top recruits coming and just like all the other programs we could pick up a transfer or 2 where needed.

Yep. I am not going to hit the panic button until Vegas. But something needs tweaking.

 

[RutgersAlum]

Our miss rate is way too high. The correnti/Grello class yielded no starters except Grello. That was supposed to be one of our best classes.

Paetzrll just beat an all American. Mackall is doing well on the open circuit.

Something is off. I have no idea. I will trust the coaches to figure it out.

Interesting that these two left and are both flourishing in a different environment. Absolutely something is definitely off for now with the hope that it gets better.

 

[FoxRU]

Stop.

 

[Lex Knapp]

Interesting that these two left and are both flourishing in a different environment. Absolutely something is definitely off for now with the hope that it gets better.

Flourishing a week into the season? Flourishing is not decided this early on in the season.

 

[RutgersAlum]

Flourishing a week into the season? Flourishing is not decided this early on in the season.

I think Paetzell who was in our room beating a ranked kid in the top 8 that's pretty good.We talk about indicator matches to see where our guys are.I certainly hope our wrestlers peak at the right time (big tens into NCAAs).As for now we will continue to dissect our performance good or bad.This is all part of the territory..

 

[Bms22]

Just a season removed when Dippery started out on fire. Kids come out of the summer at different speeds. Elite kids typically stay elite while others you have to learn to take the bad results hoping they come back to form. Here’s to hoping.

 

[Lex Knapp]

I think Paetzell who was in our room beating a ranked kid in the top 8 that's pretty good.We talk about indicator matches to see where our guys are.I certainly hope our wrestlers peak at the right time (big tens into NCAAs).As for now we will continue to dissect our performance good or bad.This is all part of the territory..

I’m well aware of how this works. Wrestling fans are very impatient. We’ve had guys knock off AA’s and not AA themselves. Paetzell is a great kid, who loves the sport of wrestling. I truly believe he could have had a nice little career here. Fact is, he left without ever showing what he could do here. Same can be said for Mackall. Bottom line, there’s three days of indicator matches that decide where a kid stands. Until then, everything else is bulletin board material. If Paetzell goes on to have a .500 season, does anyone care if he knocked off an AA in November? Not saying he will or won’t, but unless he makes some noise in Pittsburgh this year, no one will remember his win this weekend.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Just a season removed when Dippery started out on fire. Kids come out of the summer at different speeds. Elite kids typically stay elite while others you have to learn to take the bad results hoping they come back to form. Here’s to hoping.

Good point! I recall my sophomore year. I came out gangbusters before the weight cut caught up with me. I certainly wasn’t an elite wrestler.

 

[RutgersAlum]

I’m well aware of how this works. Wrestling fans are very impatient. We’ve had guys knock off AA’s and not AA themselves. Paetzell is a great kid, who loves the sport of wrestling. I truly believe he could have had a nice little career here. Fact is, he left without ever showing what he could do here. Same can be said for Mackall. Bottom line, there’s three days of indicator matches that decide where a kid stands. Until then, everything else is bulletin board material. If Paetzell goes on to have a .500 season, does anyone care if he knocked off an AA in November? Not saying he will or won’t, but unless he makes some noise in Pittsburgh this year, no one will remember his win this weekend.

Point well taken - Let's see how we do in March.
Suriano & Ashnault winning titles will top any type of finish as a team.

 

[RU Diesel07110]

C'mon its a week into the season! If paetzel has a down year or mediocre year it won't matter what he did in week 1. Have to have a body of work to really determine if he's "flourishing". We all want hammers to come out and dominate every weight but sh!ts gonna happen sometimes.

 

[Abro1975]

I'm a big Pburg fan and keep in touch w my friends there who are season ticket holders at Pburg (yes , they sell season tickets for their wrestling schedule, a lot !). Paetzall will wrestle 133 until Parker comes back form injury (not sure if soon). IF Paetzall is still in lineup this week, you can watch Lehigh on Flow Wrestling against Michigan where Paetzall will most likely match up against #3 Steven Micic.
PS- Phillipsburg Brian Meyer,2nd in NJ at 152 last season, also a freshman at Lehigh.

Anyone remember P'burg coach Thad Turner in the late 60s early 1970s? He went on to a great career coaching at Lehigh.
Watching HS wrestling in Phillipsburg is a thing to behold. Pburg HS wrestling attendance would probably rank in the top 15 for NCAA.D1 wrestling.

 

[FoxRU]

Interesting that these two left and are both flourishing in a different environment. Absolutely something is definitely off for now with the hope that it gets better.

After beating the #6 ranked guy, Paetzell got blanked 5-0 by a guy who went 1-2 at NCAA’s last year. I’m happy for Paetzell but it’s not like he is some world beater now.

 

[RutgersAlum]

After beating the #6 ranked guy, Paetzell got blanked 5-0 by a guy who went 1-2 at NCAA’s last year. I’m happy for Paetzell but it’s not like he is some world beater now.

I am sure if one of our wrestlers beats a top ranked kid.We would all feel differently including me and rightfully so.

 

[RU Diesel07110]

I'm a big Pburg fan and keep in touch w my friends there who are season ticket holders at Pburg (yes , they sell season tickets for their wrestling schedule, a lot !). Paetzall will wrestle 133 until Parker comes back form injury (not sure if soon). IF Paetzall is still in lineup this week, you can watch Lehigh on Flow Wrestling against Michigan where Paetzall will most likely match up against #3 Steven Micic.
PS- Phillipsburg Brian Meyer,2nd in NJ at 152 last season, also a freshman at Lehigh.

Anyone remember P'burg coach Thad Turner in the late 60s early 1970s? He went on to a great career coaching at Lehigh.
Watching HS wrestling in Phillipsburg is a thing to behold. Pburg HS wrestling attendance would probably rank in the top 15 for NCAA.D1 wrestling.

Meyer was tough in hs saw him in regions last 2 years. Is he in lineup

 

[RutgersAlum]

Meyer was tough in hs saw him in regions last 2 years. Is he in lineup

No he is not - Redshirt year.

 

[FoxRU]

I am sure if one of our wrestlers beats a top ranked kid.We would all feel differently including me and rightfully so.

My point was that you can’t use Paetzell’s success in one match as an indictment of the RU program. I have no clue what your point is here. JVB and Gravina, to use a few examples have overachieved relative to their rankings coming out of HS.

 

[ScarletGrapfan]

My point was that you can’t use Paetzell’s success in one match as an indictment of the RU program. I have no clue what your point is here. JVB and Gravina, to use a few examples have overachieved relative to their rankings coming out of HS.

Agree FoxRu, this thread is getting out of control....I liked the "roadrunner" Paetzell, but he would not have started last year or this year and would have been behind NS next year. Him beating one ranked kid really means nothing.

 

[RutgersAlum]

My point was that you can’t use Paetzell’s success in one match as an indictment of the RU program. I have no clue what your point is here. JVB and Gravina, to use a few examples have overachieved relative to their rankings coming out of HS.

I understand your point quite clearly - just a healthy discussion and not a big deal.We can put this to bed till the next results.

 

[32prosper]

I'm a big Pburg fan and keep in touch w my friends there who are season ticket holders at Pburg (yes , they sell season tickets for their wrestling schedule, a lot !). Paetzall will wrestle 133 until Parker comes back form injury (not sure if soon). IF Paetzall is still in lineup this week, you can watch Lehigh on Flow Wrestling against Michigan where Paetzall will most likely match up against #3 Steven Micic.
PS- Phillipsburg Brian Meyer,2nd in NJ at 152 last season, also a freshman at Lehigh.

Anyone remember P'burg coach Thad Turner in the late 60s early 1970s? He went on to a great career coaching at Lehigh.
Watching HS wrestling in Phillipsburg is a thing to behold. Pburg HS wrestling attendance would probably rank in the top 15 for NCAA.D1 wrestling.

Lol I went to pburg.Wrestling is a revenue sport. They sell football season tix as well.

 

[RU Diesel07110]

Went last year to Thanksgiving game vs Easton. Lady at ticket window said sold out-- for years!

 

[jerzey devil]

I am sure if one of our wrestlers beats a top ranked kid.We would all feel differently including me and rightfully so.

wrong... most on here would be harping on the loss ruining it

 

[JohnnyHandsome]

Not buying the sob story

RU is a B10 program with higher expectations then ever before. A non ranked team traveled from Utah to NY to kick RU's butt. Thats the reality and chalking it up to early season rust doesnt cut it imo. Its a signal of expectations running way too high

RUs lineup is not filled with many near-sure-win wrestlers. Yes, expect NS to win most if not all his matches.. AA a little lesser expectation but hes a good bet

After that, flip a coin.

As far as being a better tournament than dual team... maybe. But who's scoring points in tournaments other than those same 2? Perhaps Gravina but thats not even a 50/50 proposition.

Comes down to annually recruiting some top kids that are already elite. RU wasnt NS's 1st choice. Only way to make that leap is bringing in a bigtime HC that wrestlers will want to wrestle for. Until then, RU will be a decent program and have its occasional moments of glory.. Nothing wrong with that but will struggle with other slightly above average teams too

Will be entertaining seasons and those 3-4 annual duals matches RU will get clobbered in

 

[wngarbarini]

Give me a break either the same old BS. You stink out the place in one match and fire the coach and bring in Tom Brsnds or Tom Ryan. If Mike Van Brill wins the match he was leading and does not get pinned with 10 seconds left the score is 17-0 and I bet we win the dual meet. The coaches know our kids did not show up and have addressed it. We are not an elite team yet but know how to get there and money and top kids coming here is the key to getting there which is being addressed.

 

[rondi]

Ha, I stopped reading after sob story [pfftt]

Go RU!
Diane​

 

[JohnnyHandsome]

Give me a break either the same old BS. You stink out the place in one match and fire the coach and bring in Tom Brsnds or Tom Ryan. If Mike Van Brill wins the match he was leading and does not get pinned with 10 seconds left the score is 17-0 and I bet we win the dual meet. The coaches know our kids did not show up and have addressed it. We are not an elite team yet but know how to get there and money and top kids coming here is the key to getting there which is being addressed.

Gimmie a break. Of course top kids coming to RU is the key, thats no secret sauce youre disclosing to everyone. Doing it is another matter. What recent elite wrestler has RU recruited thats joined the program? Sure we may get someone occasionally from NJ but even those top kids going elsewhere. Stop sugarcoating the situation.

If a few things went RUs way, they could have beaten unranked UV? Is that what youre hanging your hat on? Thats a joke, it shouldnt have even been close. All this talk about RU being top 10 team this year. Stop fooling yourself and face the facts. Only way to bring in steady elite kids outside of NH is by offering something competitive to PSU, OSU, IOWA etc. It wont be tradition so whats left?

 

[R U Crazy]

Elite Wrestle recruited recently?
JoJo Aragonna?

 

[ScottRU93]

We probably are never going to be Iowa, PSU, Ok St or OSU but no reason we cannot Fall Into that next group of 5-7 teams with Nebraska, ASU, NC St, Lehigh, Cornell, etc. There is work to be done but I personally don’t think its the coaching. I would like to see us land more “Aragona’s” as well. Still think we are on the right track.