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Build a new RAC NOW,only smaller,with more premium seating.

Originally posted by derleider:
Originally posted by Knight_Light:

Originally posted by bac2therac:

trust me you are wrong. Pernetti had plans...actually several drawings...none of them concrete and none with shovel dates or contract with construction companies. It wasn't moving quickly pre Rice firing that's for sure. He raised some money and there was money pledged but this was not coming to fruition because there was not enough money.

Now you can scream and curse all you want if that makes you feel better
He was promoting a vision about his plan to improve basketball facilities....and thats what you have to do to get a campaign going (do studies, research, come up with eventual multiple options...then obviously decide on final designs and then kick off public campaign).

Don't think anyone had suggested a final complete approved timeline for all upgrades (there wasn't one), but TP knew it was a priority (after stadium expansion was done) and he was "working the room" (i.e. top donors, etc..) to start getting the buy-in for new upgrades.

It takes time...and TP was doing the ground work that was necessary ("getting his hands dirty") by meeting with key boosters to hopefully kick start that project.

Obviously with TP's departure...any "selling" of possible project died...but hopefully Julie, after being at Rutgers for almost 2 years (22 months), realizes that RU Hoops is sooooo far behind almost every P5 school, let alone dozens and dozens of non-P5 schools in regards to Basketball Facilities and starts working the "room" hard to make sure that's not the case in 2-3 more years.
Which is what Hermann is doing, except unlike Tim P, shes not spending a million dollars to get a design firm involved BEFORE she has significant funds for the project.

Tim P was working on this from the time he got here, and he only got basically to the vision stage. Julie has been here for less time, and seems to be at the same point.

But people are ripping Hermann and saying Tim was on the verge of getting it done (getting what done exactly for $15 million is an open question - certainly not all of the stuff that was in his plan.)
Good post...but TP was certainly more visible/more public in his regards to his desire to improve basketball facilities, which many times, goes a long way to help "sell" said vision.

Also, with TP's media background, he was more accessible/seemingly more willing to talk to the press, radio hosts, etc..as he always seemed like a proud alum vs say just another hired gun like Julie, who had spent much of the past 2 decades as an Administrator...and it appears she does not enjoy talking to the press at every opportunity she can.

Bottom line, both can/could succeed with almost opposite management/marketing styles.
This post was edited on 3/11 8:36 AM by Knight_Light
 
she's hates speaking to the press based on her putting her foot in her mouth on many occasions--unfortunately or fortunately she has now censored herself--and by the way I'm not calling for pernetti but any really reasonable RU fan knows that as for as the bball facility upgrades are concerned he was going all out and getting success--those saying him getting $15 million in pledges is meaningless are clueless--when Julie gives us her plans she will more than likely take the same track as pernetti as far as releasing plans and hiring an architect---and by the way her premature statements about an athletes village were released by her , certainly before even a $1 was raised--has the full $3 million for the baseball facility been actually put in the bank yet like all of us I've seen drawings--I'm guessing those drawings are on her desk as well
 
Originally posted by Scarlet Shack:
This is mindless

Tim was getting this moving and got the rug pulled out from under him

However....
1.) there weren't any set in stone plans...bexause
2.) it was not clear how much the fundraising would ultimately net

Even if tim was here NOW...IMO...the shovel would not have been in the ground yet
I tend to agree with you and I'm skeptical about how much was raised pledged for a practice facility despite reports in the media or on here. Some amount may have been raised/pledged but I'm skeptical about the 15M figure. That's certainly a lot of money to get things going and hefty chunk of what would be necessary for just a stand alone practice facility looking at the costs of others that have been built.

I also look at it like this. 15M was raised for the practice facility to improve the basketball program but we couldn't raise the money to fire FHJ? That's a much smaller figure. Remember we were originally keeping him until that baseball fiasco. Getting rid of a failing coach like FHJ would have definitely improved the prospects of the basketball program as well and getting a new coach in that was successful would increase the fundraising prospects for a basketball facility. Not to mention the issue of getting rid of Rice as well.

Raising money for this school, this athletic department and this basketball program have proved to be very difficult so the 15M raised/pledged and the lack of funds to get rid of failing coaches easily doesn't jive for me. Was something raised? Sure probably but I have a hard time believing 15M. Shovels in the ground and hard timelines make things believable. Just look at the recruiting lounge 5M was needed and Greg Brown and an anonymous donor donated 2.5M each and it got done rather quickly. That's how it should move if real money is backing a project and the funding is all set up.

This post was edited on 3/11 11:22 AM by rutgersguy1
 
I remember when TP presented the renderings at a court club meeting, that he did say that they were sending out to different contractors to bid on the project. So yes, it was close.
 
Originally posted by derleider:
Which is what Hermann is doing, except unlike Tim P, shes not spending a million dollars to get a design firm involved BEFORE she has significant funds for the project.

Tim P was working on this from the time he got here, and he only got basically to the vision stage. Julie has been here for less time, and seems to be at the same point.

But people are ripping Hermann and saying Tim was on the verge of getting it done (getting what done exactly for $15 million is an open question - certainly not all of the stuff that was in his plan.)
It's hard to raise money. It's even harder to convince big donors to give big money without a design plan. I think Tim's money was probably well spent. Perhaps part of the current problem is the lack of a clear vision/plan.
 
sure he said that but that does not mean much
Originally posted by ScarletDave:
I remember when TP presented the renderings at a court club meeting, that he did say that they were sending out to different contractors to bid on the project. So yes, it was close.
 
Originally posted by bac2therac:

sure he said that but that does not mean much
Originally posted by ScarletDave:
I remember when TP presented the renderings at a court club meeting, that he did say that they were sending out to different contractors to bid on the project. So yes, it was close.
Actually means a lot...as that would help give a ballpark figure as what to expect for final plans/designs.

Corporations do that all the time (i.e. send out non-finalized designs to gauge ballpark figures), plus, get back valuable advice. (especially in regards to construction timelines).



This post was edited on 3/11 1:47 PM by Knight_Light
 
Originally posted by rutgersguy1:

Originally posted by Scarlet Shack:
This is mindless

Tim was getting this moving and got the rug pulled out from under him

However....
1.) there weren't any set in stone plans...bexause
2.) it was not clear how much the fundraising would ultimately net

Even if tim was here NOW...IMO...the shovel would not have been in the ground yet
I tend to agree with you and I'm skeptical about how much was raised pledged for a practice facility despite reports in the media or on here. Some amount may have been raised/pledged but I'm skeptical about the 15M figure. That's certainly a lot of money to get things going and hefty chunk of what would be necessary for just a stand alone practice facility looking at the costs of others that have been built.

I also look at it like this. 15M was raised for the practice facility to improve the basketball program but we couldn't raise the money to fire FHJ? That's a much smaller figure. Remember we were originally keeping him until that baseball fiasco. Getting rid of a failing coach like FHJ would have definitely improved the prospects of the basketball program as well and getting a new coach in that was successful would increase the fundraising prospects for a basketball facility. Not to mention the issue of getting rid of Rice as well.

Raising money for this school, this athletic department and this basketball program have proved to be very difficult so the 15M raised/pledged and the lack of funds to get rid of failing coaches easily doesn't jive for me. Was something raised? Sure probably but I have a hard time believing 15M. Shovels in the ground and hard timelines make things believable. Just look at the recruiting lounge 5M was needed and Greg Brown and an anonymous donor donated 2.5M each and it got done rather quickly. That's how it should move if real money is backing a project and the funding is all set up.

This post was edited on 3/11 11:22 AM by rutgersguy1
Would have been better off taking that $15 million and using it for a real coach - $3.5 million a year for 6 years (a million from the school, $2.5 from the donors) would go alot further tahn a practice facility.

But yeah - Im not buying that we had all of this money pledged. And that it just all went away when Pernetti was fired. These guys loved RU basketball enough to pledge millions, but ONLY to TP. Basically none of it has come back with Julie?

Either way - TP didnt get the thing built. BM didnt get anything done either.
 
Originally posted by derleider

Would have been better off taking that $15 million and using it for a real coach - $3.5 million a year for 6 years (a million from the school, $2.5 from the donors) would go alot further tahn a practice facility.
Good luck trying to attract a Top 10 coach for $3.5 Million with poor to non-exist hoop facilities.

In 2014, a salary/compensation of $3.5 Million would have been good for 7th highest in the nation.

http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach
This post was edited on 3/11 2:41 PM by Knight_Light
 
der--yes it did come back to RU and Julie where? for the new score boards, speaker system, the air conditioning and any spruce up she got done--man you guys just can't admit it
 
Originally posted by ru66:

der--yes it did come back to RU and Julie where? for the new score boards, speaker system, the air conditioning and any spruce up she got done--man you guys just can't admit it
Julie just followed TP's lead on the new Video Boards.


PISCATAWAY - Two years ago this month, Rutgers announced the hiring of architectural firm Michael Graves & Associates to lead a soup-to-nuts overhaul of the Louis Brown Athletic Center.

Sixteen months ago, then-athletics director Tim Pernetti unveiled details of the renovation, including an entrance plaza, reconfigured seating and a much-needed practice facility for men's and women's basketball.

The bulk of Pernetti's plan has been scrapped, although its first stage - a state-of-the-art scoreboard and upgraded sound system - was implemented in September. And the much-needed amenity of air conditioning has been approved and should be installed by the summer of 2015.

http://www.app.com/story/sports/college/rutgers/2014/05/20/rac-renovation-plan-evolving/9347441/

Also from that same May 2014 article, Club Court Prez said this in regards to a former Big East program now in AAC:

"We are light years behind even programs like South Florida," Kelley said. "They have sparkling new facilities that are monuments to their effort. Unfortunately we haven't been able to get to the point where we value that for basketball. That's a reason our program has lagged for a number of years."
 
Originally posted by ru66:

der--yes it did come back to RU and Julie where? for the new score boards, speaker system, the air conditioning and any spruce up she got done--man you guys just can't admit it
no one is disputing that really
 
I like that in the renderings Upstream provided above that the far end of the court states SCARLET KNIGHTS
Thanks for sharing them--either of those give hope that the RAC could be upgraded into a legit home arena

For all what we want to say about Mulcahy and Pernetti--we don't have conference realignment issues or football issues as they each had to deal with. Flood is not going anywhere for at least 1 year.

Not taking sides, but Hermann needs to succeed with this--this should be her big project. I understand the subsidy, but as AD she has to make things happen.

BTW, if Mulcahy was able to hire who he wanted here for hoops--Jay Wright--we'd likely build him a statue in front of the RAC--or we may be playing in downtown NB in a 10K arena by now
 
I said we probably raised some money but 15M? I'm sure whatever was raised at least in part was used for some of the stuff we've seen upgraded. Have we seen 15M worth of upgrades to the RAC with the new scoreboards, lighting, etc... The amount to me is debatable and coupled with the lack of funds to get rid of failing coaches makes me skeptical about just how much was raised.

As to Jay Wright, yea it's too bad Nova fired Lappas swooped in a got him but sometimes those are the breaks. You know IIRC Greg Marshall the current Winthrop coach at the time and current Wichita State coach was also a candidate mentioned. Judging from his career, I'd guess he would have done a good job here as well.

This post was edited on 3/11 5:08 PM by rutgersguy1
 
bac-- der said--
"But yeah - Im not buying that we had all of this money pledged. And that it just all went away when Pernetti was fired. These guys loved RU basketball enough to pledge millions, but ONLY to TP. Basically none of it has come back with Julie?" so he was implying that the $ went to waste and didn't come back to Julie--hell, pernetti's efforts paid for whatever was done on the rac that you guys give Julie so much credit for
 
ruguy--deny ,deny ,deny----give pernetti credit HIS EFFORTS GOT STUFF DONE AT THE RAC INCLUDING THE AIR CONDITIONING TO COME
 
Point is he didnt raise money to seriously think about shovels going into the ground. .he sure was better than uncle bob though
 
Originally posted by ru66:
ruguy--deny ,deny ,deny----give pernetti credit HIS EFFORTS GOT STUFF DONE AT THE RAC INCLUDING THE AIR CONDITIONING TO COME
I didn't deny anything. I said some money was probably raised and some of that money is probably being used for the upgrades. I give credit for the recruiting lounge. That was him and I'm sure some of these RAC upgrades are from funds previously raised. However, I don't believe it was 15M. Have the improvements we've seen in the RAC cost 15M? I'd doubt it. You yourself said 2.2M was raised for the initial stages of the project.

He could raise all that money (15 million), unprecedented levels for the basketball program, but he couldn't raise the money to fire FHJ and then later Rice. Or how about raising money to get a better budget than what he had when he hired Rice. All those things would have helped the basketball program immensely as well and hiring a better coach with a bigger budget would have made fundraising for a practice facility that much easier. There's something inconsistent about raising 15M for that important part of the program and not being able to fire failing coaches, which is just as important if not moreso, because of lack of funds.
 
you are quibbling ---$15 mill was pledged and I'll say it again, REAL money was raised that was instrumental for the RAC --when he was fired all those pledges didn't turn into real dollars and I completely understand that---but this constant nonsense that he wasn't pushing for bball and didn't get stuff done and the belittling iof his efforts in that regard are ridiculous-- in reality Julie has done what for bball without pernetti's fund raising??
 
Who said he wasn't pushing for basketball. I don't have that opinion. I think TP/JH and any other AD who would step into our athletic department would see the dire need of the basketball program and try to lift it up as much as possible. Mind you, I still haven't seen the inconsistency of the inability to fire failing coaches due to lack of funds and the raising of unprecedented levels of money for a facility resolved in your response.

After hiring coaches for the major sports, fundraising is the biggest key for our athletic department. But I'll say it again, the athletic director that can raise funds at a significant clip here will be the first. From the school in general down to the athletic department fundraising is very difficult so I give significant leeway for the person in the chair in regards to it.

I didn't skewer BM for not coming up with the 30M in private donations for the stadium or for not getting as much for the basketball program and I didn't skewer TP when he couldn't fire FHJ initially. I know it's a tough situation when it comes to fundraising and I'm not going to skewer JH for not making big headway in less than 2 years. It's a very difficult issue to tackle generations of apathy. It's why I've said to make any significant headway, expanding the existing pool of donors is key. From last report the number of donors to the AD has gone up and that's a good thing. Unaffiliated donors like the Towers' are also a good thing. We need many more like them. I'm glad she's hired people like SB/Marco Battaglia/Sisti to help in that regard. I'm not going to ding her harshly because it's a very tough problem to solve here. I didn't ding BM/TP for it either.

To me whether it's TP or JH or pretty much anyone else this project is going to get done when we get larger and full shares of the revenue from the B10 for a few years. I'm sure they'll be some private funds for it but I think it'll be done largely when we float some athletic revenue bonds to get it done and I think that would be the case for just about anyone in the AD's chair. It would take landing some whales to have some significant private fundraising in the tens of millions of dollars. That endeavor would be helped a lot if we had some high level winning in either of the major sports but unfortunately we don't as of yet so I stick with the notion that this will get done eventually with athletic revenue bonds when we've been getting a full share for B10 revenue for a few years.

This post was edited on 3/11 8:58 PM by rutgersguy1
 
Just came across this online It's a "Nothing Short of Greatness Campaign" by Minnesota for an athlete's village that is expected to cost between 150-190M. It will include an indoor practice facility for football/basketball and academic center etc.. It sounds like it was in the works for several years and then finally introduced publicly in 2013 and then after that some initial preparatory work on concepts. They've only begun fundraising recently in the last year or so.

So just looking at this you see how these thing develop over many years unless you got some deep pocketed donors who will fund things fairly quickly. Even then though, they've raised 70M privately in 10 months. The cost of the entire project is expected to be raised privately. Can you imagine us ever doing anything like that, not to mention that quick. Geez 70M in 10 months. I don't know if they'll continue at that pace but just that alone would fund our athlete's village. 25M from Land O Lakes, 15M from one alum, 6M from another alum. Like I said it takes many 6-7 figure donations to get big projects like this moving.

http://nothingshortofgreatness.com/index.php

http://www.mndaily.com/news/campus/2015/02/08/alumnus-donation-latest-sprint-towards-new-facility

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/291709091.html
 
Murray Friggin State, who plays in the Ohio Valley Conference, 27-5 can build this type arena, and again we can't? Some how, some way, money is not being filtered the right way at Rutgers.

8600 seats
 
PLEASE STOP BLAMING FOOTBALL--it's our savings grace , got us to BIG and has 10 times as many fans---blame what's wrong NOW--no plans for bball, no incentive from AD and others, and seemingly a lack of any strong voice from the athletic department--its been weeks since lesniak shouted and I see no effort to continue his noise by those at RU who should be making it--silence is not golden
 
Lol can you read at all. Im not blaming football...I am saying midmajors can compete and be better than Rutgers because they don't have to worry about football

As for leadership...check out Lesniaks tweets from last night and his support of Julie....too bad for you
 
Originally posted by bac2therac:
Lol can you read at all. Im not blaming football...I am saying midmajors can compete and be better than Rutgers because they don't have to worry about football

As for leadership...check out Lesniaks tweets from last night and his support of Julie....too bad for you
I wouldn't go citing ANY N.J. state senator to back up ANYTHING. Ever. Doesn't matter if he's right or wrong, that cesspool is not to be trusted for opinions on anything that matters.

Reading you people re-argue the same BS is not really the point. WHAT HAPPENS NEXT? What IS happening? What SHOULD BE happening?

We do know Tim had plans, we do know Tim had begun the process of getting donations. I'm no Pernetti lover, although he got hung out to dry by a president who didn't even know he had to care about sports. I'm no Julie lover, and I always will resent the way she was hired and I can't stand her total inability to speak in public without coming off like a jackass. But just let her do what she has to do and THEN judge her, OK?

This is about RUTGERS, not Julie, Tim or anybody else.
 
with due respect bac--where does he support Julie in his tweets yeaterday??? and has she issued any recent and I meant yesterday, any new info??? where's the noise from Julie???
This post was edited on 3/14 6:24 PM by ru66
 
It really isn't about a new freaking arena. The players don't care how old the arena is - Minnesota isn't demolishing their ancient arena. It's about facilities. Thats what you show players when you recruit them - not the floor they'll be playing games on. You show them upgraded lockers, hot/cold soak tubs, a men's/women's basketball practice facility, etc.

This doesn't cost nearly as much money as demolishing a perfectly OK arena, as opposed to building an adjacent practice facility and upgrading the locker rooms/player lounge.
 
Originally posted by NotInRHouse:
The idea that Nuts can be banned for being negative but 66 cannot be banned for repeated and ungrounded attacks on the AD is extremely troubling. I am the only that noticed that he mostly relocated his shtick over here to fly under the radar?
Pretty sure AreYouNuts was banned for being a jackass and sending an e-mail to someone at his place of work to carry on an argument that was started on this very board. Yet he himself I've been told, has banned people from his twitter account, you can't make this stuff up!

This post was edited on 3/14 10:26 PM by Exit117
 
is this his quote you are referring to? "Julie's getting it we're making progress"--- if true that's great and about time
 
Lesniak had some tweets a couple days ago about a RU plan being released in a few months. A plan that will affect both women's and men's sports (assuming the athlete's village idea).

As to the Murray State thing, I looked it up and it's a mixed use facility not just for the college. It's used for concerts, shows, events, etc..It was originally supposed to cost 18M but over runs took the cost to 23M. It was approved by the Kentucky assembly in the early 1990s but only got done in the late 90s. It was also agreed upon that Murray State would raise 2M for it, so about 10% of the original cost. See even at a small school, there always has to be a private element to it. We didn't raise the 30M for the stadium nor 10M which would have been about 10% of the total cost.

With Minnesota, as I said it's going to cost in the 150-190M vicinity but again entirely private. Again these things usually have a large private element, if not done entirely with private funds. Large donations are key as I've always said, it's not the little guys who move the needle for this stuff it's the whales which unfortunately we don't seem to have many of in our history. The places that don't do it privately, you ask yourself how much debt are they holding? Is it 100M like our stadium expansion?

I was curious to find out about the stadium they built and how that was funded. It was approved by the state and it was about a 50-50 split. The cost was about 250-300M. I came cross an article where Minnesota had raised privately 81M for it and their goal was to raise 86M and for the rest they would float athletic revenue bonds. Even then though, they said when they hit their goal of 86M they would keep on fundraising for it because they wanted to minimize the use of athletic revenue bonds as much as possible because it would take resources away from the athletic department's 25 sports for other things.

So again you see a large private element bearing the cost. Athletic revenue bonds aren't a panacea either. I've said the B10 revenue full share is going to be great but it's NOT a bottomless pot of gold to do this facility and that facility and hire this coach and that coach etc...Athletic revenue bonds take resources away from other things and the B10 revenue will be needed to service it.

Will we get some things done by floating bonds? Yes. But I can see it in the future where fans here are saying why can't we do this or that, after all we're full revenue partners now? Again it's not a bottomless pit of money. We need private funds to do these things. I mean I don't think of Minnesota like Michigan/OSU but look at the money they raised for these projects. It's unfortunate that the history of our school and AD isn't one that's great when it comes to raising money but going forward that's really the main way you're going to get all the stuff done that you may want to get done. Can't float bonds for every thing necessary in the athletic department. The goal has to be and I think is now to find ways to increase private donations.


Article on their fundraising for their stadium.

More than 2,000 private residents have donated a total of $81.5 million to help build the new Gopher football stadium at the University of Minnesota.

But they plan to keep raising money after they hit the goal - associate athletic director David Crum told the Minnesota Daily that they'd like to raise another $25 million to replace costs that would otherwise have to be covered by Athletic Department bonds.

Avoiding that would leave more money in the department's budget for all 25 sports programs at the college, Crum said

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2009/04/12/gophers_close_to_fundraising_goal_for_new_stadium


This post was edited on 3/15 9:52 AM by rutgersguy1
 
Originally posted by bac2therac:
Lol can you read at all. Im not blaming football...I am saying midmajors can compete and be better than Rutgers because they don't have to worry about football
You keep stating that but you gloss over all the "mid-majors" that HAVE and DO also support Football (programs in AAC, MWC, etc...), yet those schools without major TV $$$ or exposure seem to be able to also build some good, high quality hoop facilities too.
 
Not sure why you are here arguing all this stuff and slamming RU if you are a Central Florida fan, you repeatedly interject yourself in every argument here.

first of all there are not that many successful at both sports...secondly they also are successful because they are competing against peer schools....what are you missing about that. There is a combination of things going on here...RU is paying off stadium expansion and RU has shown football is top dog here which will get almost all of its athletic budget
 
Originally posted by bac2therac:

first of all there are not that many successful at both sports...
Same can be said about most P5 schools...as some of the best in one sport (Florida State, USC, or past Penn State, etc...and those in Hoops like Duke, Indiana et al), are not good and sometimes just terrible in the other sport.

Other schools are "paying off" new stadiums, arenas, practice facilities, etc...something RU doesn't have to worry about the latter two.
 
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