Lots of things to work on for the upcoming season, but shooting is probably priority 1-3. Question: can you teach shooting? Can you dramatically improve your shot through work?
Can you teach shooting?
- Thread starter SkilletHead2
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If it was that easy ,don't you think players would show marked improvement during their time at college?For every John Battle there are far more that show very little improvement.Lets also remember that game conditions with a defender closely guarding the shooter impacts the ability to make baskets.
Jerry Hobbie of Cranford was a professional shooting instructor from kids to college to pros. Remember being in Manley with Ron Seiklay, Hobbie and JB early one Saturday morning as Jerry worked and worked with Ronnie to correct a number of flaws in his stroke. This was post season of Ron's Freshman or Sophmore year. Long time ago. Jerry did wonders with some kids but others were no better off after a large financial out put to cover his fees and travel.
Yes you can dramatically improve your shot at any level by working on it. Even in the NBA there are any number of players who developed three point range during the course of their careers that they didnt have early on.
I believe good shooters are born. But to your question, the answer is yes, you can teach shooting and bad shooters can become OK shooters and good shooters can get even better. However, if you think you are going to make a 60% foul shoot an 85% foul shooter, the answer is no.
The starting point is having good form. If you have that you can become a good shooter through practice and repetition. It's no secret that all great shooters are gym rats. While others are watching TV or chasing girls, they are in the gym shooting Hundreds of shots every day.
I posted in another thread about the guy from Illinois St took 10,000 shots over the summer and his coaching raving about how much he improved. One other guy, one of the best shooters in college basketball has a goal of 1,000 MAKES per day and never missed a day....Amazing. I'lI try to locate the story.
If you are awkward and uncoordinated....probably not.
UDDATE....I located this about Kobe Bryant.
Kobe: No, but I do a lot more. When I get on the basketball floor, it's about fine-tuning my skills, it's not about conditioning. My conditioning comes from just running, whether it's on a track, or on a field, or on the court itself, just doing suicides, or sprints.
MF: So it's just a technique thing, shooting jumpers, things like that?
Kobe: Yeah, it's something I can do over and over, so I'm in great shape. MF: How many do you shoot in a day?
Kobe: It's between 700 to 1,000 makes a day.
I posted in another thread about the guy from Illinois St took 10,000 shots over the summer and his coaching raving about how much he improved. One other guy, one of the best shooters in college basketball has a goal of 1,000 MAKES per day and never missed a day....Amazing. I'lI try to locate the story.
If you are awkward and uncoordinated....probably not.
UDDATE....I located this about Kobe Bryant.
Kobe: No, but I do a lot more. When I get on the basketball floor, it's about fine-tuning my skills, it's not about conditioning. My conditioning comes from just running, whether it's on a track, or on a field, or on the court itself, just doing suicides, or sprints.
MF: So it's just a technique thing, shooting jumpers, things like that?
Kobe: Yeah, it's something I can do over and over, so I'm in great shape. MF: How many do you shoot in a day?
Kobe: It's between 700 to 1,000 makes a day.
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Agree with RU Choppin. If you have poor form (upper arm isn't parallel to the floor, wrist twist, etc.) it's very difficult at this point in a player's development to make a major change in form and then expect miracles. But a guy like Corey for example just needs repetition, his form is good. Likewise, Mike Williams.
That's because kids don't practice the correct technique enough to make it muscle memory. There are so many things fundamentally wrong with the way most of these kids shoot, but they put most of their time in playing 1 on 1 or pickup games. That's great for developing ball skills and agility, but you don't hone that muscle memory with the best way to deliver the shot. Style over substance is the game for too many kids.
If someone is quick enough to get to the rim against lesser competition whenever he wants, they too often don't see the importance of having the whole game.
That last part about defenders is true, but our guys see plenty of open uncontested shots and still miss the rim.
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Well going from 30-40% would be a very dramatic improvement. Especially when you consider that the very best 3 point shooters are no better than in the mid 40's.
It's just like swinging a baseball bat. Must have good form and practice over and over and over again. Muscle memory kicks in and allows you to shoot the same way or swing the bat the same way each and every time. Conditioning is also a major component of it as when you get tired, your form gets thrown off.
Worst thing kids do is use the wrong form and practice it over and over again making it part of their muscle memory.
Worst thing kids do is use the wrong form and practice it over and over again making it part of their muscle memory.
Holger Geschwindner, Dirk's shooting coach, would say YES. But I'm not going to spend hours-a-day for years teaching a kid how to shoot. I can teach some basics about squaring your shoulder, elbow in, follow through ... and about seeing shots, using the glass, rocker step, cross over, fade away, the baby hook, step back, jump stop ...about not taking contested shots but a coachable kid is rare as hens teeth. It's not just repetition. It's repetition of the right form. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice make perfect.
Absolutely, that's why the starting point is good shooting form.
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John Somogyi, for those who remember him, was a GREAT shooter AND shooting coach.
Also, allowing dunks has hurt the development of big men who can shoot. They tend to grow up slamming down dunks against smaller opponents. I grew up in the era of the Lew Alcindor rule, no dunking allowed. Even though I could dunk, it would be a technical if I did it in a game. Big men had to learn touch around the basket to score which made them better shooters. I'm not advocating banning dunks, just an observation.
Some golf instructor has said that practice makes permanent, you have to practice the right things.
Funny thingsl is i've never seen so many big men that can can shoot. Every NBA team has one or more player 6'9"-7' plus who has 3 point range. I can remember a time when it was an anamoly. How odd it was back when I used to see 7 foot Mel Counts shooting from the outside.
Being the expert that I am;), the one thing I have noticed with Corey's foul shooting is that he starts with his shoulders square, but then swings his right shoulder forward as the ball goes up.
There was actually a chapter in 4-Hour Body by Tim Ferris that talked about him going to see a shooting coach. I can't remember how long he trained with the coach, but he saw marked improvement. The most interesting thing I read, was that is important to understand which eye is your dominant one. Depending on which eye, you would reposition where the ball would line up on your shot.
Thanks for the heads up.
I think you can modify shooting, but if you have 0 talent for it by the time you get to college, you can't make it magically happen. It takes too much time when you're basically starting from scratch.
Pat, He does have that slight turn as you mentioned. Very correctable.
Michael Jordan dramatically improved his 3 pt percentage over his career. A number of other NBA players have seen lesser, but strong improvement (and they didn't get to the league by being bad to begin with).
My question came from the observation that our shooting was horrendous, and we have a very strong coaching staff. I'm wondering if we will see any big improvement this year from any of our weak shooters from last year. For example, if Corey wants to be really successful at the next level, he has to improve his shooting.
I work out at a gym most days and I usually stop and watch the pick up games going on. What is amazing is how much guys work on their crossover, their between the legs, and then just throw s*** up when shooting. When there is a guy who is a good shooter, he dominates the game.
My question came from the observation that our shooting was horrendous, and we have a very strong coaching staff. I'm wondering if we will see any big improvement this year from any of our weak shooters from last year. For example, if Corey wants to be really successful at the next level, he has to improve his shooting.
I work out at a gym most days and I usually stop and watch the pick up games going on. What is amazing is how much guys work on their crossover, their between the legs, and then just throw s*** up when shooting. When there is a guy who is a good shooter, he dominates the game.
Lawboy,
I think you are talking about Ernie Hobbie. Jerry was his son. I went to high school in Cranford with Ernie's nephews(Norman and Jimmy) who were also really good shooters.
The years that I was a manager(1976-1980) at RU, Tom Young used to bring Ernie in to teach shooting at RU also. He was considered the "shot doctor".
Also, as crazy as Dick Vitale is sometimes, and even though he wasn't a tremendous player from what I was told, he also was and is a great foul shooter.
Best of Luck,
Groz
I think you are talking about Ernie Hobbie. Jerry was his son. I went to high school in Cranford with Ernie's nephews(Norman and Jimmy) who were also really good shooters.
The years that I was a manager(1976-1980) at RU, Tom Young used to bring Ernie in to teach shooting at RU also. He was considered the "shot doctor".
Also, as crazy as Dick Vitale is sometimes, and even though he wasn't a tremendous player from what I was told, he also was and is a great foul shooter.
Best of Luck,
Groz
He visited my basketball camps as a child and was absolutely unreal. 20+ years ago.
Shooting can be improved. First by squaring the shoulders and going straight up and down. Very hard to be consistent when the body and head are drifting and that is the biggest obstacle generally and the easiest to fix assuming you have some innate ability and decent form.
And just think of all those examples of the dramatic long term positive changes in success of teams that batting coaches have had in the major leagues.
It is a lot more than practice for Issa and Corey. Pure practice is going backwards.
To add set shots are easy. Learning a jump shot is VERY difficult. In the driveway most of us can get in a rhythm and look the part. Try shooting 12 inches in the air. IMPOSSIBLE!
To add set shots are easy. Learning a jump shot is VERY difficult. In the driveway most of us can get in a rhythm and look the part. Try shooting 12 inches in the air. IMPOSSIBLE!
I have nothing to add here...no more later
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