Well, it shows that Pikiell wanted him back badly by trying to convince him to stay. That's the point...not the cost.
I'm sure Pikiell knows you can't simply replace experience, intangibles and toughness. A guy who drew 28 charges, led the team in fouls drawn and free throw attempts by a very large numbers.
I just think back to his low post defense against a beast on the blocks like Jordan Murphy....you can't replace that type of effort with the remaining guys. We will see if Yeboah or Carter can do it. I'm certain that Harper can't. Murphy is gone but there others out there.
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Perfect. How I ALWAYS feel about transfers, no matter who they are. I enjoyed watching him play, I wish him neither ill will nor good luck, and I am ready to watch our team play.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
No doubt he wanted him just not sure a flight to Toronto means anything. It’s not like it’s a major hardship. I don’t buy the we won’t miss him argument either. He was a warrior and kept us in a few games last year with sheer grit. The soft comments are a joke imo. But I do think we have a good roster of developing players and still should be better than last year despite the loss.
How so....?? Please explain....you may be correct....but a blanket statement without details, isn't really taking a position. I don't know if you're defending Eugene....if you think he's irreplaceable....that he warrants having a usage rate as high as 30%.....that he was destined to stay somewhat healthy....that RU has no chance to win this season because he is not here??
There are layers to discussions.....i believe along with quite a few others, that what happened last year, is last year. And that this roster as currently built, has enough players who can score, shoot, pass and dribble....and sure, there's an unknown about replacing 7 rebounds per game and taking 25 to 30 charges....
Outline why Kyk is digging a big hole....he explains why it's not a loss....lets get everyone who believes RU cant win without Eugene, to explain why and how it can't happen.
Well..... when a large part of someone's position is that Eugene is soft, weak, scared and can't defend they don't have much credibility. No one who watched Eugene for 3 years would ever say those things....it's just not rational.
To your credit NJH....I don't recall you ever saying those things about Eugene. Your opinions are based upon reasonable assumptions....mainly that the offense could be more efficient.
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Exactly! They turn on the wind and they rather make fun or downgrade the player to divert from what they said. It’s hilarious! Lol
Thanks for the laughs this morning.
Anyone who thinks this team will be better without Gene also thinks the GSW are better without Durant. It just ain't true!
If the team can adjust its play to a more open passing style and get back back on D, it can win. This however requires good passers and sharp execution, and guys hitting open shots! We haven't always had the talent to play that style, but the optimist in me feels we are close. I don't believe in addition by subtraction, but I do believe in addition by addition, and we do have some talent coming in next year, and guys are a year older and need to work hard this off season and step up big time (I really think Jr will take huge leaps....he just seems like one of those kids that will do whatever is necessary to make it.)
Anyone who thinks this team will be better without Gene also thinks the GSW are better without Durant. It just ain't true!
If the team can adjust its play to a more open passing style and get back back on D, it can win. This however requires good passers and sharp execution, and guys hitting open shots! We haven't always had the talent to play that style, but the optimist in me feels we are close. I don't believe in addition by subtraction, but I do believe in addition by addition, and we do have some talent coming in next year, and guys are a year older and need to work hard this off season and step up big time (I really think Jr will take huge leaps....he just seems like one of those kids that will do whatever is necessary to make it.)
I don't understand why people think it is impossible to be better off with Harper than Eugene.
Here's another question. Does anyone think Harper in year two can be more effective than Eugene in year 3? I certainly do. Why not? Unless people were blind last year, I saw a kid flashing true nba potential when Harper played. Eugene is never going to be an NBA player.
Well... Eugene's temper tantrum guarantees we will see more of Harper and I quite frankly am not convinced that's a bad thing, both for Harpers future development as well as immediate results. I think Harper can do anything Eugene can do, to the same extent or greater. and I think Harper once he is fully developed can do much more. Eugene is a Swiss army knife with two tools. Harper is a Swiss army knife with 5.
There are a lot of posts for a very simple topic. It would have been better if he stayed, but it is also not a big loss. Unlikely he would have stayed healthy and even if he did as the season went on I think he would have lost minutes. That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t have contributed though. We also have talent that can replace him. That simple.
IMO, they still need another big and it will be interesting to see if they add one for 2019.
Without knowing who is available, I agree that we need another big, and at this stage I would be totally OK with a big that can rebound and play good interior D this year. If Pike is able to bring in someone with more skills than that, even better.
Exactly, we lost Doorson and Gene. Doorson wasn’t much but we could use his size and 5 fouls. Gene was replaced by Yeboah, and some people will argue Yeboah can play post players, however, he’s still less of an inside player that Gene was and Gene is B1G tested. Our bigs are foul-prone. Need another big this season for post season to be a possibility IMO. a lot will depend on whether Doucoure is healthy and has improved.
Doorson was solid defensively for us last year, and frustrated some teams with his presence under the basket. He wasn't an athletic shot blocker, but he was a big body that was hard to move off his spot.
We have a handful of guys, but no real knowing how well they'll perform this year. Hopefully Doucoure/Carter can show us something.
Johnson - 6-10, 255 - Will be the starter this year, and will be expected to lock down 20-25 min. Needs to work on his body control/positioning to reduce fouling, but that's something that bigs usually improve on with years/experience. As a RS Soph, I'd expect him to be better staying on the floor and not overextending and committing fouls.
Doucoure - 6-9, 235 - Was a starter as a freshman, but that seemed almost by default since Johnson was redshirting and Doorson/Sa didn't really seem up to the task for most of the year. Has had a year of S&C and practice to work on his game. Lots of promise coming out of high school, but really don't know what we'll see out of him this year.
Carter - 6-9, 235 - Backed up Omoruyi at PF last year, and likely will back up Yeboah there this year. Showed a lot of offensive potential, but was frequently lost on defense. Possibly part of the Juco jump to the B1G, an offseason of practice should help him improve positioning and defensive concepts. If Pike's defense could someone "click" for him, he could see a big step up in play this year.
Nathan - 6-10, 235 - RS Soph preferred walk on, but was apparently ahead of Doucoure in practice early last year according to some reports. Not impossible for a walk on to start to see minutes and earn a scholarship, but doubtful we'd see him in anything other than spot minutes when we're in foul trouble.
As usual always about him. Weird. Funny part is he had a little cult like following but they are even seeing through him now
One time basketball gods...we make the tourney this year and wherever he ends up does not. ONE TIME!!!!
I don’t think too many people are saying that.
I always thought we we’re going to better this year than last year with EO back. I think we will be better this year than last year even though EO won’t be back. That does not mean we’re better off without him. It means we could have even been better off with him but end up being fine.
The big ten is really there for the taking.
When any team loses their leading scorer, leading rebounder, and best defender, its a significant loss. And this situation is exactly that. We are worse because he is not on the team.
For those that can't accept that, here is your silver lining. With Eugene our ceiling is 19 wins. Due to our OOC schedule, that probably wouldn't have been good enough to make the NCAA tournament. Our current team can finish at or above .500. So either way, the final stop was the NIT. So if you want to look at it that way, then you can say its not a huge loss. But in every other respect, it is.
For those that can't accept that, here is your silver lining. With Eugene our ceiling is 19 wins. Due to our OOC schedule, that probably wouldn't have been good enough to make the NCAA tournament. Our current team can finish at or above .500. So either way, the final stop was the NIT. So if you want to look at it that way, then you can say its not a huge loss. But in every other respect, it is.
Agree that not having EO is a loss, but to say that the current team's best hope is the NIT is needlessly pessimistic. This team will be much different without EO. It may make the NCAA or not. We just don't know. There's certainly enough positives (experience, better overall shooting, more versatility) to be excited about the season.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
1) you think EO is worth 4-5 wins?
2) You actually think EO was our best defender?
3) You know we lost both our leading scorer and rebounder last year and wound up better right?
4) You know that typically the forward who plays the most minutes is almost always just naturally going to be your leading rebounder, right?
1. I think he's worth 3 wins absolutely. The difference between 16 and 19.
2. Yes and its not close.
3. I'm guessing you're saying Sanders was the leading scorer and Freeman the leading rebounder? Our record doesn't say we were better. But I'm not sure how this is relevant. Apples and Oranges.
4. Yeah I guess that makes sense. And why does he get those minutes? My guess would be because he's the best player.
I'm excited about the upcoming season. Less so than if EO was still on the team. As far as being pessimistic, I don't think that's accurate. Jerry Carino put it best. We don't have the OOC schedule to get an NCAA bid unless we win over 20 games. You can hope and be optimistic but if you think this team is going to improve by 6 games despite the loss of EO and coach Jay Young, that's extreme optimism.
I think Freeman had similar stats to Eugene....how is that different??? It's not different because it's the same concept kyk broke down above.
There's no team on the planet that has ever replaced their leading scorer and rebounder in the existence of basketball??
What happens when this happens with Purdue, Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio State, Nebraska, Iowa, Penn State, Wisconsin etc....are we at RU the only program afflicted with the inability to adjust how we play the game??
Every program loses talent either through early defections to the NBA, transfer, injuries or talent gets recruited over.
If I listed the amount of departures from team to team across the B1G, heads would spin on the amount of leading scorers and rebounds leaving rosters. And Eugene while being RUs leading scorer and rebounder, isn't on anyone's NBA draft boards, or 1st, 2nd or 3rd team All B1G.
The amount of information about the competition and the recruiting across the B1G, is so easy to grasp and read about.
Is Eugene more difficult to replace than Tony Carr was a year ago at Penn State??
Is Eugene more difficult to replace than Carsen Edwards and Ryan Kline at Purdue...??
Is Eugene more difficult to replace than Matthews, Poole, Brazdekis at Michigan AND replacing a coach like Beilien??
What about James Palmer, Copeland, Roby, Watson at Nebraska??
What about Ethan Happ, leading scorer and rebounder at Wisconsin as a 4 year starter??
The amount of talent recruited and the amount of players we just haven't seen playing across the B1G is very good, year in and year out.
This notion that Eugene is somehow irreplaceable but no one else has departures is ridiculous.
And the notion that for 4 decades, schools in the B1G have no experience or track record in elevating players that are highly regarded or recruited, somehow opens a door for RU to walk through is also ridiculous. This is at worse the 3rd best league behind the ACC and SEC. The B1G has depth, talent, and highly sought after or highly regarded coaching and/or at practically every stop in the conference.
Assuming the back issue was more an excuse to redshirt him, he could have made a decent amount of progress between his freshman year and this coming season. 2 offseasons and one season just working on his game.
It's almost impossible to know, but I dont see why at minimum he cant be a decent backup
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
2) If you think EO was our best defender, we'll just have to agree to disagree. EO was our 3rd best front court defender, let alone defender. On last years team I'd rank our players defensively as 1) Mathis 2) Doorson 3) Myles 4) Harper 5) Eugene . People get way too enamored with the fact that he took charges when reality for every attempted charge he took he allowed an easy bucket on a flop no call or got a blocking call
4) Who were our other options at the 4 last year? None. That's why eugene was so heavily relied upon, we didn't have any other options. In an ideal world Eugene is your 6th man
Disagree with that defensive assessment entirely. Yikes.
And yes, I’m a perfect world EO is not a major contributor, but by your assessment of him being a 6th man we are indisputably worse without him.
I wonder if EO thought about what his legacy might have been if he stayed and we did make the tournament? As the captain of the team he would have likely approached Brian Leonard's status at Rutgers which is being known as the face of the football team that finally got back to a bowl game. He is not getting close to that anywhere else. Your up Geo Baker.
I'd imagine, over the course of B1G history, teams that lose their best player don't often take significant leaps upward in the conference standings, either - unless they had an incoming freshman class full of 5-star talent. Usually preseason reviews take the loss of top performers into consideration and expect a drop of a place or two (or more) in the conference standings.
The argument of "we won't miss a beat without Omoruyi" or "Yeboah is plug and play into Omoruyi's minutes" or whatever implies that we'll again finish where we were before... which was with a 12 seed in the B1G tournament and a 14-17 (7-13) record.
If you want to use the argument that teams losing their best performer is no big deal for us, I'd want to see the examples where teams at the bottom of the conference rose to mid-pack in the conference after losing their leading scorer and rebounder.
I dont think anyone is saying "won't miss a beat" or "Yeboah is plug and play for Gene."
It's that even with Gene leaving we have less turnover than most of the league. So we lose Omoruyi and Doorson, we gain Yeboah, Young, Mulcahy and maybe a healthy Doucoure. And we have 5 guys entering their Sophmore and/or redshirt sophmore years, so a lot of development is expected
Those words have been used specifically, but the feeling that we'll somehow feel no loss from Omoruyi's departure because we have Yeboah and Harper has also had some legs with several posters.
We had FAR less turnover than most of the league when it was just Doorson/Thiam departing. We were returning our Top 8 scorers, and were adding in 4 players to compete for minutes. We may still have less turnover than the rest of the league, but that gap has now been narrowed quite a bit.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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Why dont you agree with it? Why do you think EO was better than Myles or Doorson on the defensive end in particular. Also keep in mind Harper STRAPPED a lottery pick, twice.
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