Colorado-It's the Coaching, Not the Talent

[Knight Shift]

http://www.coloradoan.com/story/spo...-cu-football-due-blue-chip-coaching/94429012/

"It’s popular in college football circles to hear talk about the importance of recruiting by saying things like, "it’s not the X’s and the O’s, it’s the Jimmy’s and the Joes.”

Well, not entirely.

The highest-ranked recruiting class to arrive in Boulder during MacInyre’s four-year tenure at CU is 64th, according to Rivals.com. The others are No. 66 (twice) and No. 72. The year before he arrived from San Jose State, the extra-large CU signing class of 2012 was ranked 37th, but with an average star rating of less than three. Clearly, the current Buffs aren’t made up of what experts would term a group of blue-chip recruits.

What has led CU back to prominence is blue-chip coaching and MacIntyre’s gutsy hires.

Many head coaches are either too loyal to long-time assistants that have been with them at other places (said to be the chief downfall of Charlie Strong at Texas) or too fearful of their job security to bring in top aides who could be seen as threats.

MacIntyre did neither."
-------------------------
The rest of the article has to do with the hiring of experienced Jim Leavitt as DC in YEAR 3 of his tenure.

 

[Knight Shift]

This thread is not a review or commentary about RU this year.
This could have something to do with RU in year 3 or year 4.
MacIntrye:
San Jose State
2010: 1-12
2011: 5-7
2012: 10-2
Colorado:
2013: 4-8/1-8
2014: 2-10/0-9 (should have fired him):rolleyes:
2015: 4-9/ 1-8
2016: 10-2/8-1

OMG- look at the LOSER they have for an OC for FOUR YEARS, and he was not fired:
2005Redlands Quarterbacks
2006 Northern Arizona Receivers
2007 Northern Arizona Running Backs
2008 Northern Arizona Passing Game Coordinator/Quarterbacks
2009-11 Northern Arizona Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks
2012 San Jose State Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks
2013- Colorado Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks
-----
Time and patience are needed. Next year may be worse than this year. And that may mean better times are ahead for RU.

 

[zappaa]

The guy was an OC for 5 years before going to Boulder

 

[ArminRU]

Sticky the thread please

 

[Knight Shift]

The guy was an OC for 5 years before going to Boulder

He was OC at a FCS school (NAU) for 3 years and 1 year at a Mountain West School.
This year, MacIntrye brought in Darrin Chiaverini as Co-OC, who had ZERO experience as an OC except in 2008 at Mt. San Antonio College.

 

[RutgersRaRa]

This thread is not a review or commentary about RU this year.
This could have something to do with RU in year 3 or year 4.
MacIntrye:
San Jose State
2010: 1-12
2011: 5-7
2012: 10-2
Colorado:
2013: 4-8/1-8
2014: 2-10/0-9 (should have fired him):rolleyes:
2015: 4-9/ 1-8
2016: 10-2/8-1

OMG- look at the LOSER they have for an OC for FOUR YEARS, and he was not fired:
2005Redlands Quarterbacks
2006 Northern Arizona Receivers
2007 Northern Arizona Running Backs
2008 Northern Arizona Passing Game Coordinator/Quarterbacks
2009-11 Northern Arizona Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks
2012 San Jose State Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks
2013- Colorado Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks
-----
Time and patience are needed. Next year may be worse than this year. And that may mean better times are ahead for RU.

Knight Shift doing some work up in here!

 

[Knight Shift]

Knight Shift doing some work up in here!

A beacon of hope in a sea of negativity.
Can understand how fans feel today after a rough season.
But like Jimmy V said-don't give up, don't ever give up.
We are in good hands and on the right path.

 

[Caliknight]

They won 2 conference games his first 3 years. Was that coaching?

The OP would have been wanting him fired if he did that at RU.

 

[jtung230]

Actually, 2 conference wins and we wouldn't even have these conversations.

 

[Knight Shift]

Cali is still clueless and attacking without provocation or facts as usual. Back to ignore for him.

 

[Caliknight]

Actually, 2 conference wins and we wouldn't even have these conversations.

In that case, he has 2 more years to reach that same milestone.

Good to see you waking up finally.

 

[rutgersguy1]

I'd be happy if Ash decides he needs to find his "Jim Leavitt" on the offensive side of the ball to help Mehringer out. Like the article alludes to though a coach, not specifically Ash, has to do some self reflection to come to those conclusions.

 

[Dpgru]

Both sides of this thing are wrong. The people who are convinced based on this year that Ash was now a bad hire and we are doomed are being foolish. Equally, those who claim he is a great coach and all that went wrong can be placed at Flood's doorstep are also wrong. This is a staff that is relatively inexperienced in their current roles. Either the position they are in is above any they have had before or they are in the same position but are now in the bIg Ten. The Peter Principle is a real thing but clearly not everyone falls into the category so we will have to wait and see. Ash may be a boom or a bust. Some of this years problems were Flood's fall out and some were due to mistakes made by this staff. All need time to grow. If it doesn't work then I believe Hobbs must go after an HC with p5 experience and some reputation, if it does work then we will be fine.

 

[jtung230]

In that case, he has 2 more years to reach that same milestone.

Good to see you waking up finally.

Difficult to see 2 conf wins in the next two years. Can't win games w/o scoring points. But maybe he kills it in recruiting and we get out Teddy Bridgewater.

 

[mikemarc1]

Ok...and at Rutgers this year it was the talent.

Give him time please!!

 

[rutgersguy1]

Both sides of this thing are wrong. The people who are convinced based on this year that Ash was now a bad hire and we are doomed are being foolish. Equally, those who claim he is a great coach and all that went wrong can be placed at Flood's doorstep are also wrong. This is a staff that is relatively inexperienced in their current roles. Either the position they are in is above any they have had before or they are in the same position but are now in the bIg Ten. The Peter Principle is a real thing but clearly not everyone falls into the category so we will have to wait and see. Ash may be a boom or a bust. Some of this years problems were Flood's fall out and some were due to mistakes made by this staff. All need time to grow. If it doesn't work then I believe Hobbs must go after an HC with p5 experience and some reputation, if it does work then we will be fine.

Agree with most of this except the last line. I think it's natural, and frankly expected, for a current AD not to go to the same well if their prior hire didn't work out. But personally I don't agree with it. Every year is a new slate of candidates for an AD looking and I wouldn't limit myself to any particular category whether it be coordinator, mid major HC or former P5 HC. All can work out all can fail, it's trying to find the right fit for your situation. That's easy to say and harder to do but I think it's made even harder if you limit yourself.

 

[Caliknight]

Difficult to see 2 conf wins in the next two years. Can't win games w/o scoring points. But maybe he kills it in recruiting and we get out Teddy Bridgewater.

Backtracking already.

W e a k.

 

[RUsojo]

It helps playing in a pac12 that's experiencing its lowest quality in a really long time compared to the big10 which is at the best it's been in a long time.

 

[Knight Shift]

Ok...and at Rutgers this year it was the talent.

Give him time please!!

Just stop already. You obviously did not read the article and have a one track mind.

 

[rutgersguy1]

It helps playing in a pac12 that's experiencing its lowest quality in a really long time compared to the big10 which is at the best it's been in a long time.

I think that's probably part of it too. I always talk about consistency, have to see if he can reproduce it next year. Doesn't have to be 10 win PAC12 champ game appearance but say an 8 win season and .500 record in conference or better. You can see the build up but can it be maintained to a degree or will it drop back to the gutter.

It's usually off years like these coaches get big contract boosts and I'm always wary about giving them out on short term results, specifically if you're not a school with deep pockets.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

I'd be happy if Ash decides he needs to find his "Jim Leavitt" on the offensive side of the ball to help Mehringer out. Like the article alludes to though a coach, not specifically Ash, has to do some self reflection to come to those conclusions.

Maybe Ash needs DM to be WR coach and JL type to be the OC.

Ash's call he is the HC.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[jtung230]

Backtracking already.

W e a k.

Backtracking? I'm hoping for the best but never changed my assessment on this staff. If this staff can't recruit, then we will be back to the Terry Shea era.

 

[RU_Planning]

Poor comparison given that MacIntyre has a proven track record of turning around a FBS program before getting the P5 job.

 

[Knight Shift]

Poor comparison given that MacIntyre has a proven track record of turning around a FBS program before getting the P5 job.

 

[needmorecowbell]

Just stop already. You obviously did not read the article and have a one track mind.

The article clearly say it's not entirely recruiting, meaning recruiting is still here he most important part but coaching at CU has been the difference maker. I will say it is 50% to 75% recruiting. Depends on the team and coaching staff. Either way the hope for RU is after a 2-10 season Colorado won their division in year 4. Everyone needs to back off the ledge and keep positive.

 

[ArminRU]

Here are some other coaches that should have been fired after year 1. I wonder if these teams had the same whiny fans....oh wait, let's remember back to 2002. Nothing ever changes with some people.

Rutgers
2000: 3-8
2001: 2-9 (Schiano year 1)
2002: 1-11
2003: 5-7
2004: 4-7
2005: 7-5
2006: 11-2

WMU
2012: 4-8
2013: 1-11 (Fleck year 1)
2014: 8-5
2015: 8-5
2016: 12-0

South Carolina
1998: 1-10
1999: 0-11 (Lou Holtz)
2000: 8-4
2001: 9-3

 

[Knight Shift]

The article clearly say it's not entirely recruiting, meaning recruiting is still here he most important part but coaching at CU has been the difference maker. I will say it is 50% to 75% recruiting. Depends on the team and coaching staff. Either way the hope for RU is after a 2-10 season Colorado won their division in year 4. Everyone needs to back off the ledge and keep positive.

This was the point of my posts. We have the worst group of debbie downer fans on the planet, which may perhaps be understandable given our history. I in no way suggested we were going to win the B1G East in year 4 of Ash. Then we have someone saying this was a "poor example" because MacIntrye did the same thing at San Jose State.
We are not going to find a perfectly matched up example. But this is a good example considering Colorado's history and poor record prior to MacIntrye and an inexperienced OC getting the job done and a major change at DC in YEAR 3. Patience.

 

[ArminRU]

Almost forgot our good friends from Temple

2005: 0-11
2006: 1-11 (Golden year 1)
2007: 4-8
2008: 5-7
2009: 9-4

2012: 4-17
2013: 2-10 (Rhule year 1)
2014: 6-6
2015: 10-4

 

[Caliknight]

Backtracking? I'm hoping for the best but never changed my assessment on this staff. If this staff can't recruit, then we will be back to the Terry Shea era.

Please. If Ash wins 2 conference games and has losing records over the next two seasons you will be freaking out. Like you do now.

 

[Dpgru]

Agree with most of this except the last line. I think it's natural, and frankly expected, for a current AD not to go to the same well if their prior hire didn't work out. But personally I don't agree with it. Every year is a new slate of candidates for an AD looking and I wouldn't limit myself to any particular category whether it be coordinator, mid major HC or former P5 HC. All can work out all can fail, it's trying to find the right fit for your situation. That's easy to say and harder to do but I think it's made even harder if you limit yourself.

I said if he doesn't work out we need a known p5 coach with a rep because IF (not when) Ash falls one of the reasons will most likely be he will have failed to recruit the elite talent out of NJ. Which means our image and prestige in the state with the elite talent will be in the tank. It will take, IMHO, a known commodity at the helm to turn that around.

 

[jtung230]

Please. If Ash wins 2 conference games and has losing records over the next two seasons you will be freaking out. Like you do now.

I'll be freaking on signing day if he can hold this class. Much worst than I am now.

 

[Caliknight]

Huh?

 

[rutgersguy1]

I said if he doesn't work out we need a known p5 coach with a rep because IF (not when) Ash falls one of the reasons will most likely be he will have failed to recruit the elite talent out of NJ. Which means our image and prestige in the state with the elite talent will be in the tank. It will take, IMHO, a known commodity at the helm to turn that around.

I know you said IF and I get your point. But what I've felt about recruiting is that by and large most coaches recruit about to the level of the status of the school. You'll have some who will do better and some who will do worse but most will do about what you'd expect. Unless you're getting some big flashy name which we likely can't afford I don't know how much difference a known P5 coach will make in recruiting.

Save for a few there's really no such thing as "known commodity" and "proven" even though that type of terminology gets thrown around. How often does elite talent of this state come to us anyway save a couple here and there. It would take either a huge name we couldn't afford or more likely some steady consistent good results to reel in more than a few.

And I've said here before, I see recruiting as a tiered pyramid with each tier wider as you go down and talent level about the same on each tier. Arbitrarily say 1-15, 16-45, 46-80, etc... So I think most coaches would recruit in the tier you'd expect their school to end up and then maybe some time down the line if results become consistent enough you might be able to move up a tier. That to me is how you have a chance to improve recruiting in state and in general outside the big name coach.

So I don't know how much most of the names we could afford would change my thinking. Say a Tommy Tuberville type coach who has been popular here before despite his struggles this year. I'd say he's about the vicinity of former P5 coach we could realistically get, is he going to make such a bump in recruiting to a new tier? IMO, I don't think so. So that's why I say don't limit it, just find whomever you think is best no matter which category he may come from and take it from there.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

They won 2 conference games his first 3 years. Was that coaching?

The OP would have been wanting him fired if he did that at RU.

He just got excited by the headline and didn't think things through.

Patience is a virtue that is the big take away here.

 

[Knight Shift]

He just got excited by the headline and didn't think things through.

Patience is a virtue that is the big take away here.

What? Didn't think what through? What part of the following in my OP (second post) di you not understand?:

"This thread is not a review or commentary about RU this year.
This could have something to do with RU in year 3 or year 4."
and "Time and patience are needed. Next year may be worse than this year. And that may mean better times are ahead for RU."

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

What? Didn't think what through? What part of the following in my OP (second post) di you not understand?:

"This thread is not a review or commentary about RU this year.
This could have something to do with RU in year 3 or year 4."
and "Time and patience are needed. Next year may be worse than this year. And that may mean better times are ahead for RU."

Sorry, I actually was thinking of some of replies this type of thread will get.

 

[RU31trap]

Both sides of this thing are wrong. The people who are convinced based on this year that Ash was now a bad hire and we are doomed are being foolish. Equally, those who claim he is a great coach and all that went wrong can be placed at Flood's doorstep are also wrong. This is a staff that is relatively inexperienced in their current roles. Either the position they are in is above any they have had before or they are in the same position but are now in the bIg Ten. The Peter Principle is a real thing but clearly not everyone falls into the category so we will have to wait and see. Ash may be a boom or a bust. Some of this years problems were Flood's fall out and some were due to mistakes made by this staff. All need time to grow. If it doesn't work then I believe Hobbs must go after an HC with p5 experience and some reputation, if it does work then we will be fine.

Great post but what you suggest in the last three sentences will never happen here's at Rutgers. There will always be an excuse. Cost of Medical School Merger, Interest payments on Bonds, the professors will revolt etc etc etc. always an excuse to get a guy that's just good enough to hire, but never a good enough to make us the next B10 champions, and that in a nutshell is why Coach Ash was hired.

 

[Knight Shift]

Sorry, I actually was thinking of some of replies this type of thread will get.

Contrary to what Cali (who seems to be comprehension-challenged) thinks, I am 100% behind Ash and the staff. One area that I think we could use some help/guidance is on offense. Don't think we will see it in year 2, but if year 2 does not show progress on offense, could see it in year 3.

 

[Caliknight]

Ash has a national championship ring.

 

[Dpgru]

I know you said IF and I get your point. But what I've felt about recruiting is that by and large most coaches recruit about to the level of the status of the school. You'll have some who will do better and some who will do worse but most will do about what you'd expect. Unless you're getting some big flashy name which we likely can't afford I don't know how much difference a known P5 coach will make in recruitin


Save for a few there's really no such thing as "known commodity" and "proven" even though that type of terminology gets thrown around. How often does elite talent of this state come to us anyway save a couple here and there. It would take either a huge name we couldn't afford or more likely some steady consistent good results to reel in more than a few.

And I've said here before, I see recruiting as a tiered pyramid with each tier wider as you go down and talent
level about the same on each tier. Arbitrarily say 1-15, 16-45, 46-80, etc... So I think most coaches would recruit in the tier you'd expect their school to end up and then maybe some time down the line if results become consistent enough you might be able to move up a tier. That to me is how you have a chance to improve recruiting in state and in general outside the big name coach.

So I don't know how much most of the names we could afford would change my thinking. Say a Tommy Tuberville type coach who has been popular here before despite his struggles this year. I'd say he's about the vicinity of former P5 coach we could realistically get, is he going to make such a bump in recruiting to a new
tier? IMO, I don't think so. So that's why I say don't limit it, just find whomever you think is best no matter which category he may come from and take it from there.

First, I capitalized the IF not because I thought you misunderstood me but to alert the people who want Ash fired now that I wasn't suggesting he is going to fail. Second I do not disagree with you at all on general principal but I am saying that IMHO that's what it will ake to turn this around if Ash fails. I of course do not know who might be available because it probably wouldn't be for another two years at least but there are usually one or two guys around who have worn out a welcome or something like that who might be available. Take this year as an example, Miles and Strong are available. I am not saying they are great and we need them but they are known commodities with p5 experience. Each year there are usually one or two available and if Ash fails I really don't think we can afford another experiment with an inexperienced HC.