ADVERTISEMENT

COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

Status
Not open for further replies.
You should understand that HCQ is the one treatment that nobody is gonna get rich off of. It’s been around for 40 years and is widely available as a generic.
Many people have a financial interest in HCQ not proving effective. Big pharma would love for HCQ to be debunked.
Consider this when you see all the slanted studies that show HCQ as not effective and or dangerous. Someone wants you to believe that.

Then why is the medical community pouring so much effort into convalescent plasma, which isn't going to make too many people rich either? It's because it looks promising and doctors want to save lives first and foremost. Same with most in Pharma, despite some famous abuses in the past, and you'll see that with vaccines, where they'll be made available at a fraction of the cost to develop and manufacture them.

Also, the vast majority of scientists and doctors are far, far more motivated about being right than they are about getting rich, which is why we're seeing so many papers on HCQ with so manyconflicting results - which is what one would expect for lower quality non placebo-controlled, non-randomized studies when there is no significant efficacy for that drug.
 
65% of Covid19 deaths in PA have occurred in nursing homes. 65%! Maybe we need to stop worrying about wearing masks outdoors and focus on getting people out of nursing homes and into places where they aren't congregated on top of each other with medical support. We are killing our economy, we are forcing business to close for no reason but we ignore the big picture. Unreal.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/philad...or-65-of-covid-19-deaths-in-commonwealth/amp/
 
Name the virus that was 24/7 365.
I'm thinking you're thinking of a virus song and I'm drawing a complete blank. But since I was thinking about virus songs, figured I'd post this cover/parody of I Am The Walrus. It's a little kitschy, a little cringy, but also moderately creative and the sound is pretty good. And it's Saturday night, so I don't feel like posting all serious stuff...

https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news...-viral/video/3dd5d5b6fec4326dd038ab9f0162126c
 
Last edited:
It all starts at the top. Remember Trump was calling this the Democrats new hoax on Feb 28th, saying "it's going to go away" on March 12th. So when that proved to be completely false, and Trump had no ability to deal with the matter, it fell into the governors laps. Unfortunately for NY and NJ, they were more susceptible to infection, due to international travel, then the rest of the country.

This is probably about the time where you report a post as being political so as to have it taken down, but whatever, you've admitted your intent, trolling a coronavirus thread is fun for you, so whatever.
Remember, the Dems were calling Trump a racist for the travel ban, so they didn't believe the threat either. Cuomo did nothing for several weeks after this and Murphy was even later.

Nothing you can say about Trump will obscure the fact the Cuomo and Murphy forced corona+ patients back into nursing homes resulting in the death of thousands. Cuomo already admitted this and changed his policy. It's over. The blame had been laid at their feet.
 
65% of Covid19 deaths in PA have occurred in nursing homes. 65%! Maybe we need to stop worrying about wearing masks outdoors and focus on getting people out of nursing homes and into places where they aren't congregated on top of each other with medical support. We are killing our economy, we are forcing business to close for no reason but we ignore the big picture. Unreal.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/philad...or-65-of-covid-19-deaths-in-commonwealth/amp/
define no reason.
 
Remember, the Dems were calling Trump a racist for the travel ban, so they didn't believe the threat either. Cuomo did nothing for several weeks after this and Murphy was even later.

Nothing you can say about Trump will obscure the fact the Cuomo and Murphy forced corona+ patients back into nursing homes resulting in the death of thousands. Cuomo already admitted this and changed his policy. It's over. The blame had been laid at their feet.
yet NJ and NY have a lower pecentage of nursing home deaths compared to non-nursing home deaths than many other states. Explain.
 
I read it. And I'm not saying Murphy has handled the LTC situation well at all, but I also know he was put in an impossible situation.

He's forced to decide who get's PPE. Hospitals or LTC's. It's a no win situation.

What Murphy has going against him which other Governors do not is that outside of NYC no state has been hit as hard as NJ. But the %'s of deaths from LTC's is high all across the country.
He and “The Don” , Andrew Cuomo made bad decisions with the LTC fiasco. Can’t be be excused... if we blame Trump then these two actually caused people to die. With all the additional places available to treat the vulnerable they chose not to isolate or treat them away from the other residents. Their state medical advisors should be proud.
 
And many other states have a higher percentage
Find that awfully hard to believe based upon the high number of resident deaths in NY and New Jersey... I will say that Pennsylvania and Illinois both had high numbers in nursing homes ...All have democratic governors so WTF is with that?
 
As of May 11, 2020 the top 8 states with the most deaths In Nursing Homes were all run by Democratic governors... 1/3 of the deaths in the USA from covid19 occurred in Nursing Homes...in New Jersey and New York the total Nursing Home deaths were just over 10k. So you were saying what a fine job those governors and their medical advisors were doing? So continue to blame Trump for those decisions you dumbass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: texas tiger
As of May 11, 2020 the top 8 states with the most deaths In Nursing Homes were all run by Democratic governors... 1/3 of the deaths in the USA from covid19 occurred in Nursing Homes...in New Jersey and New York the total Nursing Home deaths were just over 10k. So you were saying what a fine job those governors and their medical advisors were doing? So continue to blame Trump for those decisions you dumbass.
America is the country with most care home deaths. Who is America’s president??? List the 8 states. Didn’t know governors had the authority to get intel briefings, ban overseas visitors and decide who to test when the Fed government says only people who went to China, give tests when the federal government doesn’t allow it, etc. by your logic Rudy Giuliani was an epic failure on 9/11 nyc was hit harder than everyone else. He should have known and stopped it
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kbee3
Numbers - my deepest condolences to you and your family on the loss of your Mom.

I just read this in another post

It’s awful to lose a parent and especially under these awful times

May She Rest In Peace

With Deepest Sympathies,
Phil
 
America is the country with most care home deaths. Who is America’s president??? List the 8 states. Didn’t know governors had the authority to get intel briefings, ban overseas visitors and decide who to test when the Fed government says only people who went to China, give tests when the federal government doesn’t allow it, etc. by your logic Rudy Giuliani was an epic failure on 9/11 nyc was hit harder than everyone else. He should have known and stopped it
Murphy tried his best but failed through no fault of his administration. They really did put an emphasis on protecting the folks in nursing homes. They talked to people in Washington State to get the benefit of their experience, they restricted visits, put mask rules in place well before national policies went into effect, but the virus got in anyway. It wasn't for lack of them trying to contain it. Truly.
Cuomo, on the other hand, is 100% at fault. The POTUS you despise sent him the Comfort at great haste and great expense, sent in the Army Corps of Engineers and remade the Javits Center into a COVID field hospital, and that jackass decided he wasn't going to use either of those tools, which stood empty as he forced nursing homes and LTC facilities to take in nearly 5,000 recovering COVID patients to free up hospital beds for more COVID patients. The grim reaper's Johnny Appleseed, that's what Cuomo is.

It's not about politics. Not now. We're all Americans, we're all facing the same thing. Sometimes things FUBAR. That's life. We learn from it, we get stronger, we get better. Or not. Get better or worse. There's no treading water, hit the beaches or drown. Up to you.
 
Murphy tried his best but failed through no fault of his administration. They really did put an emphasis on protecting the folks in nursing homes. They talked to people in Washington State to get the benefit of their experience, they restricted visits, put mask rules in place well before national policies went into effect, but the virus got in anyway. It wasn't for lack of them trying to contain it. Truly.
Cuomo, on the other hand, is 100% at fault. The POTUS you despise sent him the Comfort at great haste and great expense, sent in the Army Corps of Engineers and remade the Javits Center into a COVID field hospital, and that jackass decided he wasn't going to use either of those tools, which stood empty as he forced nursing homes and LTC facilities to take in nearly 5,000 recovering COVID patients to free up hospital beds for more COVID patients. The grim reaper's Johnny Appleseed, that's what Cuomo is.

It's not about politics. Not now. We're all Americans, we're all facing the same thing. Sometimes things FUBAR. That's life. We learn from it, we get stronger, we get better. Or not. Get better or worse. There's no treading water, hit the beaches or drown. Up to you.
it's not about politics?? Then why does every repug on the board keep gloating more deaths in blue states? Why does Mitch mconnel say we aren't gonna bail out those blue states they can go bankrupt? Why does Trump after issuing guidance tweet liberate only about blue states encouraging people to not listen to the guidelines that his own white house issued? Why does Trump say he takes no responsibility? Why did he call the coronavirus a Democrat hoax?? Why is their a political debate on masks, when it's clear they help, or HCQ which is clear doesn't?

Great of Trump to send the ship, after he praised XI for transparency sent China our PPE, said 15 cases soon to be zero, it will magically go away, one day in April it will be gone, he is not worried, he wouldn't let us test anyone who didn't come back from China, wouldn't let the states use their own tests, he did nothing the entire month of February, nor in January except give China our PPE. The equivalent of what Trump did is someone set a fire in the house next door, Trump saw it from the street, and did nothing until the other house burned down, then when it started to burn your house and the flames were already touching it he pulled out his cell phone, and dialed 9-1-1, but the house was already on fire, by the time the fire got there and it was too late to contain and the house was destroyed. That's what Trump did. The fire was started by China's lack of transparency but Trump sat there and let the fire burn and we the American people lost our house because of it.
 
Last edited:
Since a few people have asked about transmission of the coronavirus through the eyes, here is a bit of insight. While it's certainly possible, it's very likely a rare occurrence, due to the very circuitous route required to get to the lungs (vs. simply breathing in from the mouth or nose) but can't be ruled out completely. The advice in this link is good: wear eye protection if you are going to be working very closely (within 1-2 feet) with someone, but don't worry about it if you're more than maybe 2-3 feet away (standard talking distance and beyond).

But absolutely wear the mask within 6 feet of anyone and anywhere that you can't be sure you can always be >6 feet from everyone, like in a store or on the boardwalk. Also, keep in mind (as per my post on Thursday) that masks are nowhere near foolproof, as cloth masks are maybe 50-70% effective in preventing infection from a cough/sneeze within 6 feet of someone, and worse if not worn properly or in a very crowded situation, like mass transit. Still disappoints me that the US didn't stock up on hundreds of millions of the more effective N95 respirators (>95% effective in virus filtration) for everyone, especially as they can be reused on a rotational basis (every 3 days, since any viruses will be deactivated within 72 hours).

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...i-catch-it-through-the-eyes-will-googles-help
 
Like I side the LTC problem is an issue not just all over this country it's across the world. I posted a NY Time article a couple times here showing the state by state breakdown of percentage of deaths from nursing homes....many states are above 50% and plenty above 1/3. NY was actually at 20% I think at that time IIRC and NJ was at 52% but a few other states were around 60-80% even. I think the headline was LTC accounts for 11% of all cases but about 1/3 of all deaths.

Snippets from different articles about issues across the world. Sometimes have trouble with some BBC articles posting (usually a video shows up instead of link to the article) but I'll post the text at least.

From the articles:

Up to 1 May, there had been 8,312 deaths in care homes in England and Wales where coronavirus was written on the death certificate, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

This represents a quarter of all deaths associated with the virus to that date.

The number increases to 12,526 when care home residents who died outside care homes - such as in hospital - are included.

In Scotland, 1,438 people had died in care homes - or 45% of all deaths.

The Swedish Public Health Agency told the BBC that 48.9% of deaths were care home residents up to and including 14 May.

Up to half of coronavirus-related deaths in Europe are occurring in long-term-care facilities such as nursing homes, the World Health Organization said Thursday, an assessment that suggests public health authorities may have allowed the pandemic to rage among some of their most vulnerable populations as they focused on hospitals and other aspects of their response.

Comas-Herrera and colleagues reported last week that covid-19 deaths in nursing facilities in Belgium, Canada, France, Ireland and Norway might account for half of all coronavirus deaths in those countries.

In other European countries for which ECDC had data, the share of deaths in nursing homes varied from 37% of all reported COVID-19 fatalities in Germany to 66% in Spain, where nearly 18,000 deaths were officially reported in long-term care facilities as of May 11.

France reported more than 13,500 COVID-19 deaths among its nursing care residents as of May 11, which amounted to 50% of the total. Belgium had a 51% share of its COVID-19 deaths in nursing homes, Norway 61%. Stockholm, Sweden’s capital, reported a 45% share, the ECDC report showed.

The document did not include figures from Italy, which after Britain is the European country with the highest COVID-19 death toll.


https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52284281

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...35619c-8561-11ea-81a3-9690c9881111_story.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...care-homes-than-european-states-idUSKBN22V1VI
 
Like I side the LTC problem is an issue not just all over this country it's across the world. I posted a NY Time article a couple times here showing the state by state breakdown of percentage of deaths from nursing homes....many states are above 50% and plenty above 1/3. NY was actually at 20% I think at that time IIRC and NJ was at 52% but a few other states were around 60-80% even. I think the headline was LTC accounts for 11% of all cases but about 1/3 of all deaths.

Snippets from different articles about issues across the world. Sometimes have trouble with some BBC articles posting (usually a video shows up instead of link to the article) but I'll post the text at least.

From the articles:

Up to 1 May, there had been 8,312 deaths in care homes in England and Wales where coronavirus was written on the death certificate, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

This represents a quarter of all deaths associated with the virus to that date.

The number increases to 12,526 when care home residents who died outside care homes - such as in hospital - are included.

In Scotland, 1,438 people had died in care homes - or 45% of all deaths.

The Swedish Public Health Agency told the BBC that 48.9% of deaths were care home residents up to and including 14 May.

Up to half of coronavirus-related deaths in Europe are occurring in long-term-care facilities such as nursing homes, the World Health Organization said Thursday, an assessment that suggests public health authorities may have allowed the pandemic to rage among some of their most vulnerable populations as they focused on hospitals and other aspects of their response.

Comas-Herrera and colleagues reported last week that covid-19 deaths in nursing facilities in Belgium, Canada, France, Ireland and Norway might account for half of all coronavirus deaths in those countries.

In other European countries for which ECDC had data, the share of deaths in nursing homes varied from 37% of all reported COVID-19 fatalities in Germany to 66% in Spain, where nearly 18,000 deaths were officially reported in long-term care facilities as of May 11.

France reported more than 13,500 COVID-19 deaths among its nursing care residents as of May 11, which amounted to 50% of the total. Belgium had a 51% share of its COVID-19 deaths in nursing homes, Norway 61%. Stockholm, Sweden’s capital, reported a 45% share, the ECDC report showed.

The document did not include figures from Italy, which after Britain is the European country with the highest COVID-19 death toll.


https://www.bbc.com/news/health-52284281

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836

https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...35619c-8561-11ea-81a3-9690c9881111_story.html

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...care-homes-than-european-states-idUSKBN22V1VI
@czxqa seems the LTC death to regular death ratios in NY and NJ from Corona are not only better than average for the US, they are better than average for much of the world that has had an outbreak.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LETSGORU91
This covers what I mentioned on the 96000 study. Funny how I saw this immediately on first glance and yet the amazing, briliant, supergenius Derek Lowe did not. The sad thing is Numbers laughed at my comments on DL a month ago when I pointed out similar missteps. What I can see in a cursory glance in 5 minutes is apparently beyond him. Maybe folks should be reading my blog.

I love how Dr Quay put it:

I am actually kind of embarrassed for them because this is a college level experimental design error although I was pleased to see that none of them were from either The University of Michigan or The Massachusetts General Hospital.

Also, I can't say I disagree with his thoughts on HCQ at the end. The difference between us and everyone else is we are waiting for proper science to answer the question not junk science that is politically motivated or worse. Before you think this guy is another quack, read his bio after the article below.

https://drquay.com/hydroxychloroquine-political-science/

In February a study was published out of France that the very old malaria drug, hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), could inhibit the infection of cell cultures in the laboratory with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. I did an analysis of the data within 24 hours and posted a note on social media that the concentration needed for it to work in the test tube was not reached by the drug when given in normal doses. I was skeptical of it working.

But the drug developed a life of its own. It eventually received an Emergency Use Authorization from the FDA and it is likely many people are taking HCQ either to prevent the disease or to treat it if they have COVID-19. It became, the first drug in history to become a political pawn. But it is still a drug and I am still interested in the risk-benefit of treatments for important diseases, including COVID-19. So I continue to examine the benefit-risk balance of HCQ.

As a reminder, the risks of HCQ are well known as it is a very old drug. The most important risk is a dangerous, sudden heart pattern that can kill you if you are not defibrillated with the heart paddles in short order. While there is an algorithm for knowing how likely you are to have these arrhythmias (my upcoming book has a detailed discussion of how to calculate your risk) for the most part, anyone over about 65 years with a serious COVID-19 infection will be at moderate to high risk.

Today, four Harvard Medical School medical scientists stepped in to try to settle the matter but their analysis is patently wrong and because I assume they are reasonably smart I am wondering how they came to their conclusion except by the process of starting with the end in mind. That is a great way to plan a trip but a lousy way to study unknown science.

In an article published in the British Journal, The Lancet1, they pooled data from over 96,000 hospitalized patients with COVID-19 located in 671 hospitals in six continents. If I remember my geography lessons correctly this means hospitals from everywhere in the world except Antarctica! They compared the rate of heart arrhythmias and deaths for patients that were taking HCQ or its cousin drug, chloroquine (the Treatment Group) to those who were not (the Control Group).

Their results are shown here in this Text-Table.

Screen-Shot-2020-05-23-at-10.45.47-AM-1024x140.png


The safety findings are very clear and damning for HCQ. The treated group had between two- and five-times more heart rhythm problems than the control group. The range of numbers is because the scientists tried to help HCQ ‘win’ by doing subgroup analyses of HCQ alone or with other drugs, etc. But it didn’t work. Any combination that included HCQ or chloroquine had more arrhythmias. The false result rate for the study was set so that the chance that this result is not correct is one out of twenty times.

As expected, when you have so many more heart arrhythmias you also have increased deaths. Can I make the picture clear? The patient is in the hospital with COVID-19, is very sick, probably on a ventilator, is taking HCQ, and suddenly their heart monitor goes off telling the ‘crash cart staff’ they need to rush to the bedside of the patient because they have about four minutes to get the heart problem corrected or the patient dies. But everyone is wearing PPE and nervous and doing a rescue takes even a little longer than it would under normal circumstances. I think you see where this ends up.

So does that settle it that HCQ doesn’t work? No! The last column above in my Table is why.

Buried in one of the tables in the paper, without any real comment by the authors, is this remarkable data point in the column titled mechanical ventilator: the patients who got HCQ or chloroquine were much more likely to be on ventilators than the control group. With this single observation, their whole paper suddenly heats to 454 Fahrenheit and burns up.

Why? Bad science. Two input variables with one output variable means you can’t say which input variable caused the output.

If you look at an outcome like arrhythmias or death and you have two input variables, one variable is being on a ventilator and the other is taking HCQ, you have no way to know which caused the outcomes. Said simply, the results also could be concluded that ventilation leads to more deaths. But writing a paper that says that patients with COVID-19 who are on mechanical ventilation die more often is hardly worthy of publication in The Lancet. But ignore that confounder and come out and say HCQ kills people and suddenly you get top billing. Strange indeed!

I am actually kind of embarrassed for them because this is a college level experimental design error although I was pleased to see that none of them were from either The University of Michigan or The Massachusetts General Hospital.

Could they have salvaged the study with the data they have? Absolutely.

All they had to do was perform what is called a Case Matched Control Study, where they use preset features to match the controls to the treated group and then redo the analysis. So here, instead of having a control group with 7.7% mechanical ventilation they make a control group with 23-25% mechanical ventilation, the rate in the HCQ treatment group, and then repeat their analysis.

I did a back of the envelope analysis myself and my take is that if you control for ventilation HCQ is either neutral or maybe a little helpful to patients. That might not get as many internet clicks but it would at least be descent science.

I still lean out on whether HCQ is beneficial for COVID-19 (if I were betting I would conclude no). But this study gets us no closer to the truth and mucks up things for true science.

About Dr. Quay
Steven Quay is the founder of Seattle-based Atossa Therapeutics Inc. (Nasdaq:ATOS), a clinical-stage biopharmaceutical company developing novel therapeutics and delivery methods for breast cancer and other breast conditions.

He received his an M.D. and Ph.D. from The University of Michigan, was a postdoctoral fellow at MIT with Nobel Laureate H. Gobind Khorana, a resident at the Harvard-MGH Hospital, and was on the faculty of Stanford University School of Medicine. His contributions to medicine have been cited over 9,600 times.

He has founded six startups, invented seven FDA-approved pharmaceuticals, and holds 87 US patents. Over 80 million people have benefited from the medicines he invented.

His current passion is the prevention of the two million yearly breast cancer cases worldwide.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: LC-88 and ATIOH
What you said is possible. However, there's a simpler explanation: HCQ/CQ are dangerous and cause greater side effects (particularly much higher rates of ventricular arrhythmias) and mortality and combined with the very high HCQ/CQ treatment rate since late March (after the hype started), this is why the overall rates on vents in NYC/US (and likely everywhere) are greater than they would be if HCQ/CQ weren't being used.

If we use NYC as a surrogate for the Lancet study (it has had the most patients and most of the patients in the Lancet study were from the US, meaning it's very likely a sizable proportion came from NYC), then the percentage of hospitalized patients intubated is approximately 17% (22% to ICU and 79% of those on vents), as per the WebMD link.

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200520/1-in-5-hospitalized-nyc-covid-patients-needed-icu#1

In addition, a good estimate of the percentage of NYC hospitalized patients on HCQ/CQ is about 82%, based on the JAMA study in NYC, where out of 1438 randomly selected patients, 735 (51.1%) received HCQ/AZ, 271 (18.8%) received HCQ alone, 211 (14.7%) received AZ alone, and 221 (15.4%) received neither drug. So, if one takes out the AZ-only data, HCQ treated patients are 82% of the total.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766117

However, it should be noted that the JAMA NYC study was conducted on patients who were hospitalized between 4/-9-4/27, which was probably the height of HCQ use, given Trump's numerous statements hawking HCQ/AZ from around 3/20-4/15 and before many papers started coming out in mid/late April questioning the efficacy and safety of HCQ.

In comparison, the Lancet study had patients hospitalized from January through early April (with all patients discharged/dead by 4/21), meaning a much greater percentage were treated before the HCQ hype, so it's not that surprising that this study had a much lower % on HCQ/CQ (but I wouldn't have thought it would be only 15%, but that shouldn't really matter).

If one assumes the Lancet study is "correct" that 20.6% of HCQ/CQ patients get intubated and 7.7% of non-HCQ/CQ patients get intubated and we use the JAMA study ratio of 82/18 HCQ+CQ to non-HCQ/CQ for NYC patients, in general, then we'd expect to see 18.3% of overall patients becoming intubated in NYC hospitals, assuming they all have 82/18 ratios of HCQ/CQ to non-HCQ/CQ patients in their hospitals, which is not far from the 17% intubated number in NYC from the WebMD data.

The point of this analysis is not to unequivocally say that the Lancet study is 100% perfectly correct - it's to say that it's plausible it's generally correct, that HCQ/CQ offer no efficacy advantages and probably are truly associated with greater ventricular arrhythmia, intubation and death.

Last point: if the NYC HCQ/CQ treatment prevalence data of >80% is correct for the US and probably many other countries (didn't look at Europe, but we know usage went up everywhere), or even if it's just 50-60%, then without even doing any "studies" it's not hard to conclude that HCQ/CQ offer no mortality reduction benefit, given that US case mortality rates steadily climbed from 2.9% as of 4/1 (when all deaths would likely have been from cases before HCQ use skyrocketed, given the 2-4 week delay from infection to death) to 5.8% as of 5/1.

Surely, if 40, 50, or even 80% of patients were now being treated with HCQ, if it offered a mortality benefit, we would not have seen the CFR double would we? This is what I've been saying all along and why I think you're actually not seeing the big picture here. Have at your prophylaxis arguments, but I don't think there's any argument you'll be able to make to make me think that HCQ/CQ is helping hospitalized patients - on the contrary, I think the Lancet and other publications have it right and we should stop using HCQ/CQ in all hospital settings, apart from ongoing clinical trials.
As for Lancet study, read my previous post. The fact that you cannot see it is sad. HCQ does not cause the need for mechanical ventilation, severe CV19 does. To even suggest that it does makes anyone who does look silly. Also, the need for mechanical ventilation is one of our best predictors of death. NYC has shown us that as 90% of patients needing vents die. If you have not, read the Quay article linked in previous post above.

As for your other thoughts. They do not consider that both here in the US and in most of Europe HCQ is only being used very late in the game. There are some who have defied the recommendations and prescribed it earlier but their noted successes are written off as anecdotal.

Instead, why don't you do this. Go figure out which countries have established early use of HCQ as their SOC and then compare their death rates to everyone else who does not use it or only uses it late. For example, Singapore uses HCQ versus a few others with similar case numbers who either do not use it or in hospitals only:
EYNk44EXgAAAx89


Or better yet, look at the recent comparison of death rates in Marseilles where they defied the govt and treated early with HCQ with the rest of France or even NY. BTW, Raoult's numbers on far right.
Screen-Shot-2020-05-23-at-9.50.57-AM-1328x765.png


Or how about compare Italy who switched to early use of HCQ and say the UK who has a younger population but does not use HCQ?
EYsjD-gXsAAsjA3


How about Turkey with HCQ as SOC versus US/UK where it is not.
EYnpDzFXYAACKRS


Or how is Russia doing after they adopted early HCQ use on April 16th?
EX4IOv5WoAI0UDA


How about looking up CFR for Russia who uses HCQ early and compare with the USA?

Russia CFR 1%
USA CFR >6%

India gives HCQ prophylactically and trets early:
EYuMIo4UMAEno_O
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ATIOH
America is the country with most care home deaths. Who is America’s president??? List the 8 states. Didn’t know governors had the authority to get intel briefings, ban overseas visitors and decide who to test when the Fed government says only people who went to China, give tests when the federal government doesn’t allow it, etc. by your logic Rudy Giuliani was an epic failure on 9/11 nyc was hit harder than everyone else. He should have known and stopped it
You look them up . Just start at NY and NJ the rest are as of May 12 th run by Dems... remember these governors didn’t wish to be under Trumps directives and so he allowed them to call their own shots... listen... I don’t give Trump a free pass... as I said there is more than enough culpability to go around the political landscape...but Trump did not direct these residents into nursing care facilities.Starting in Washington State as you remember ...with you it’s ALL TDS... you are a 20 something know it all...
 
Last edited:
A lot of people here are looking to blame individuals based on their political affiliation. Trump, Pelosi, Cuomo, Murphy and many others have made decisions that turned out to be wrong. All were dealing with something that's unprecedented in our lifetime and early on were basing these decisions on information from the WHO and China that was incorrect regarding transmission of this virus. I'm sure everybody remembers Pelosi and other Congessional Democrats calling this a "manufactured crisis" by Trump to distract from their impeachment ordeal.

I read an article recently about how difficult it is for the WHO to deal with China and how they have to basically schmooze them in order to get them to cooperate with the rest of the world. This is why they accommodated China with wording of some of their press releases. In my mind, China gets the blame for this pandemic because of their secrecy and deception.

We learn more about this virus weekly and hopefully our decision makers use this information to make non political, informed decisions in the future.

The HCQ issue has been politicized. Earlier in this thread, I mentioned my experience with HCQ when I thought my condition was worsening and I'd end up in the hospital. By day 3 of use, I no longer had a fever and my breathing issues had improved. Coincidence? Maybe, but maybe not. I'm looking forward to the results of the U. of Minnesota study on early use of HCQ because Turkey is the one country that used it early immediately and they seem to have better numbers than every other country.

I've since tested positive for antibodies. There are some things I still won't do like travel and stay in a motel. I also won't go into crowded bars/restaurants but believe the pace of opening needs to be sped up. The elderly, those with pre-existing conditions and anyone uncomfortable with exposure to the public can isolate themselves but this needs to be a personal decision that the government can make recommendations on but shouldn't be mandating. Informed adults don't need politicians telling them how many people can be at their backyard barbeque.
 
A lot of people here are looking to blame individuals based on their political affiliation. Trump, Pelosi, Cuomo, Murphy and many others have made decisions that turned out to be wrong. All were dealing with something that's unprecedented in our lifetime and early on were basing these decisions on information from the WHO and China that was incorrect regarding transmission of this virus. I'm sure everybody remembers Pelosi and other Congessional Democrats calling this a "manufactured crisis" by Trump to distract from their impeachment ordeal.

I read an article recently about how difficult it is for the WHO to deal with China and how they have to basically schmooze them in order to get them to cooperate with the rest of the world. This is why they accommodated China with wording of some of their press releases. In my mind, China gets the blame for this pandemic because of their secrecy and deception.

We learn more about this virus weekly and hopefully our decision makers use this information to make non political, informed decisions in the future.

The HCQ issue has been politicized. Earlier in this thread, I mentioned my experience with HCQ when I thought my condition was worsening and I'd end up in the hospital. By day 3 of use, I no longer had a fever and my breathing issues had improved. Coincidence? Maybe, but maybe not. I'm looking forward to the results of the U. of Minnesota study on early use of HCQ because Turkey is the one country that used it early immediately and they seem to have better numbers than every other country.

I've since tested positive for antibodies. There are some things I still won't do like travel and stay in a motel. I also won't go into crowded bars/restaurants but believe the pace of opening needs to be sped up. The elderly, those with pre-existing conditions and anyone uncomfortable with exposure to the public can isolate themselves but this needs to be a personal decision that the government can make recommendations on but shouldn't be mandating. Informed adults don't need politicians telling them how many people can be at their backyard barbeque.

BTW, Boulware said that the first U of Minn tudy manuscript has been peer reviewed and accepted for publication. He is hopeful for publication sometime next week.
 
Remember, the Dems were calling Trump a racist for the travel ban, so they didn't believe the threat either. Cuomo did nothing for several weeks after this and Murphy was even later.

Nothing you can say about Trump will obscure the fact the Cuomo and Murphy forced corona+ patients back into nursing homes resulting in the death of thousands. Cuomo already admitted this and changed his policy. It's over. The blame had been laid at their feet.
Two seperate things here:

1)The Dems were completely wrong for calling Trump a racist. It was a typical knee jerk political reaction, and as it turns out that was a very good move by Trump.

But.

A) It was the lack of action from the federal level after the china travel ban that put us in the pickle, they didn't back up a good move with more good moves. They instead did nothing for 6 weeks.

B)Governors don't have the international intelligence resources that the fed's have. If the fed's are not informing the governors of international threats the governors are just not going to be prepared. There is no way around this.

2)I already agreed that Murphy and Cuomo deserve criticism, but as I stated in other posts, they were in an impossible position, here is a virus that has infiltrated LTC's all around the world, and here they were, for reasons beyond their control at the epicenter of the virus in the US. They did put measures in place, but like every other state the virus got into ltc's and killed a lot of people, So yeah criticism, but it should be criticism with context.
 
You look them up . Just start at NY and NJ the rest are as of May 12 th run by Dems... remember these governors didn’t wish to be under Trumps directives and so he allowed them to call their own shots... listen... I don’t give Trump a free pass... as I said there is more than enough culpability to go around the political landscape...but Trump did not direct these residents into nursing care facilities.Starting in Washington State as you remember ...with you it’s ALL TDS... you are a 20 something know it all...
You made the claim you back it up bob. That’s how it works. By your logic right now I’ll claim you’re a terrorist. Prove that you’re not. I’m waiting
 
"The scientist in charge of Florida’s Covid-19 database was fired on the same day as the state opened up for business.

As sunbathers returned to beaches, and restaurants, movie theaters, gyms and hair salons in almost every county were permitted to open their doors on Monday, the Governor Ron DeSantis’s administration fired Dr Rebekah Jones from the Florida department of health.

Jones, the architect and manager of the online dashboard held up by the White House in April as a model of transparency and integrity, said she was sidelined after protesting orders to censor some of the information it contained. And on Tuesday she claimed she was fired for refusing to “manually change data to drum up support for the plan to reopen”.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...red-refusing-change-covid-19-data-reopen-plan
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT