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COVID-19 Pandemic: Transmissions, Deaths, Treatments, Vaccines, Interventions and More...

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To stop the spread of the virus from more heavily affected cities further north, the archipelago in southern Florida has been blocked off since late March to anyone who does not work or live there. Hotels were ordered closed, and passengers who flew in through the airport were screened and instructed to self-quarantine for two weeks. The isolation measures were among the strictest in the country.

The actions worked: The Keys have had just 100 Covid-19 cases and three deaths, according to data from the Florida Department of Health. The three counties to the north that make up South Florida — Miami-Dade, Broward and Palm Beach — have had a total of more than 25,000 cases and 1,000 deaths. But as officials make the preparations to take the roadblocks down and open a tourist town to tourists, there is little agreement on what is the best course. Critics worry that the consequences will be severe; others say the economic price paid has already been too high.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/18/us/coronavirus-florida-keys.html
 
Wow, so time to open more businesses?
tumblr_pei0om6V7s1ro04efo1_400.gifv
 
Wow, so time to open more businesses?

It is past time to open more businesses. If I had my way we would have opened more things ten days ago, and not done this piecemeal daily opening of "something," because now we have no idea what was the tipping point to move R naught above 1.0. Was it the fishing boats? The shooting range? The beaches? The backyard bbq of 25? It could have been any of them but because we didn't wait 10 days in between reopening these things, who knows? What happens if we creep above R naught of 1? Which thing do you take back away? aall of them?
 
It is past time to open more businesses. If I had my way we would have opened more things ten days ago, and not done this piecemeal daily opening of "something," because now we have no idea what was the tipping point to move R naught above 1.0. Was it the fishing boats? The shooting range? The beaches? The backyard bbq of 25? It could have been any of them but because we didn't wait 10 days in between reopening these things, who knows? What happens if we creep above R naught of 1? Which thing do you take back away? aall of them?

I mean if you look at the numbers, NJ is probably opening up more aggressively than any other state, so there is some argument there, although I do think it’s time for non-essential businesses that can social distance to start opening up. Sounds like we are a week or 2 away. We are too densely populated to rush it. Who wants to risk a flare up and we gotta do this crappy again??
 
This covers what I mentioned on the 96000 study. Funny how I saw this immediately on first glance and yet the amazing, briliant, supergenius Derek Lowe did not. The sad thing is Numbers laughed at my comments on DL a month ago when I pointed out similar missteps. What I can see in a cursory glance in 5 minutes is apparently beyond him. Maybe folks should be reading my blog.

I love how Dr Quay put it:

I am actually kind of embarrassed for them because this is a college level experimental design error although I was pleased to see that none of them were from either The University of Michigan or The Massachusetts General Hospital.

Also, I can't say I disagree with his thoughts on HCQ at the end. The difference between us and everyone else is we are waiting for proper science to answer the question not junk science that is politically motivated or worse. Before you think this guy is another quack, read his bio after the article below.

https://drquay.com/hydroxychloroquine-political-science/

In February a study was published out of France that the very old malaria drug, hydroxychloroquine (HCQ), could inhibit the infection of cell cultures in the laboratory with the SARS-CoV-2 virus. I did an analysis of the data within 24 hours and posted a note on social media that the concentration needed for it to work in the test tube was not reached by the drug when given in normal doses. I was skeptical of it working.

But the drug developed a life of its own. It eventually received an Emergency Use Authorization from the FDA and it is likely many people are taking HCQ either to prevent the disease or to treat it if they have COVID-19. It became, the first drug in history to become a political pawn. But it is still a drug and I am still interested in the risk-benefit of treatments for important diseases, including COVID-19. So I continue to examine the benefit-risk balance of HCQ.

As a reminder, the risks of HCQ are well known as it is a very old drug. The most important risk is a dangerous, sudden heart pattern that can kill you if you are not defibrillated with the heart paddles in short order. While there is an algorithm for knowing how likely you are to have these arrhythmias (my upcoming book has a detailed discussion of how to calculate your risk) for the most part, anyone over about 65 years with a serious COVID-19 infection will be at moderate to high risk.

Today, four Harvard Medical School medical scientists stepped in to try to settle the matter but their analysis is patently wrong and because I assume they are reasonably smart I am wondering how they came to their conclusion except by the process of starting with the end in mind. That is a great way to plan a trip but a lousy way to study unknown science.

In an article published in the British Journal, The Lancet1, they pooled data from over 96,000 hospitalized patients with COVID-19 located in 671 hospitals in six continents. If I remember my geography lessons correctly this means hospitals from everywhere in the world except Antarctica! They compared the rate of heart arrhythmias and deaths for patients that were taking HCQ or its cousin drug, chloroquine (the Treatment Group) to those who were not (the Control Group).

Their results are shown here in this Text-Table.

Screen-Shot-2020-05-23-at-10.45.47-AM-1024x140.png


The safety findings are very clear and damning for HCQ. The treated group had between two- and five-times more heart rhythm problems than the control group. The range of numbers is because the scientists tried to help HCQ ‘win’ by doing subgroup analyses of HCQ alone or with other drugs, etc. But it didn’t work. Any combination that included HCQ or chloroquine had more arrhythmias. The false result rate for the study was set so that the chance that this result is not correct is one out of twenty times.

As expected, when you have so many more heart arrhythmias you also have increased deaths. Can I make the picture clear? The patient is in the hospital with COVID-19, is very sick, probably on a ventilator, is taking HCQ, and suddenly their heart monitor goes off telling the ‘crash cart staff’ they need to rush to the bedside of the patient because they have about four minutes to get the heart problem corrected or the patient dies. But everyone is wearing PPE and nervous and doing a rescue takes even a little longer than it would under normal circumstances. I think you see where this ends up.

So does that settle it that HCQ doesn’t work? No! The last column above in my Table is why.

Buried in one of the tables in the paper, without any real comment by the authors, is this remarkable data point in the column titled mechanical ventilator: the patients who got HCQ or chloroquine were much more likely to be on ventilators than the control group. With this single observation, their whole paper suddenly heats to 454 Fahrenheit and burns up.

Why? Bad science. Two input variables with one output variable means you can’t say which input variable caused the output.

If you look at an outcome like arrhythmias or death and you have two input variables, one variable is being on a ventilator and the other is taking HCQ, you have no way to know which caused the outcomes. Said simply, the results also could be concluded that ventilation leads to more deaths. But writing a paper that says that patients with COVID-19 who are on mechanical ventilation die more often is hardly worthy of publication in The Lancet. But ignore that confounder and come out and say HCQ kills people and suddenly you get top billing. Strange indeed!

I am actually kind of embarrassed for them because this is a college level experimental design error although I was pleased to see that none of them were from either The University of Michigan or The Massachusetts General Hospital.

Could they have salvaged the study with the data they have? Absolutely.

All they had to do was perform what is called a Case Matched Control Study, where they use preset features to match the controls to the treated group and then redo the analysis. So here, instead of having a control group with 7.7% mechanical ventilation they make a control group with 23-25% mechanical ventilation, the rate in the HCQ treatment group, and then repeat their analysis.

I did a back of the envelope analysis myself and my take is that if you control for ventilation HCQ is either neutral or maybe a little helpful to patients. That might not get as many internet clicks but it would at least be descent science.

I still lean out on whether HCQ is beneficial for COVID-19 (if I were betting I would conclude no). But this study gets us no closer to the truth and mucks up things for true science.

About Dr. Quay
Steven Quay is the founder of Seattle-based Atossa Therapeutics Inc. (Nasdaq:ATOS), a clinical-stage biopharmaceutical company developing novel therapeutics and delivery methods for breast cancer and other breast conditions.

He received his an M.D. and Ph.D. from The University of Michigan, was a postdoctoral fellow at MIT with Nobel Laureate H. Gobind Khorana, a resident at the Harvard-MGH Hospital, and was on the faculty of Stanford University School of Medicine. His contributions to medicine have been cited over 9,600 times.

He has founded six startups, invented seven FDA-approved pharmaceuticals, and holds 87 US patents. Over 80 million people have benefited from the medicines he invented.

His current passion is the prevention of the two million yearly breast cancer cases worldwide.

As I said yesterday, what you and Quay are saying is possible, although even if it is, Quay is still saying that the math wouldn't move so far as to say that HCQ was effective, which has been my main message for weeks as the large majority of studies in hospitals have not shown HCQ/combos being effective.

With regard to Quay's analysis, he makes some good points, but he's also not necessarily correct in saying that % of patients on vents is an independent "input" variable. The only clear input variable here is HCQ/CQ or not-HCQ/CQ (and all the various other start of treatment inputs like patient status, demographics, etc.) at the start of the study as patients were admitted to the hospital - they didn't "start" the study at people being put on vents (that would be in input). Just like arrhythmia is a potential outcome (side-effect), percentage of patients on vents is a potential outcome, just like mortality is. And it's possible all of them are caused by HCQ/CQ.

IMO, this is all a debate about the study design and analysis, which is interesting, but not the main point. What people want to know is whether HCQ benefits hospitalized patients and my larger point in my earlier post and several other posts is that given the very high rate of treatment of hospitalized patients in NYC/NY (at least; anecdotally, I've seen other reports of 50-75% of patients elsewhere in the US being treated with HCQ in the hospital) of ~80%, as per the JAMA and NEJM papers, the fact that case fatality rates have roughly doubled since HCQ treatment became so high tells me there's no way it's effective. And unlike the Lancet paper, I'm not saying HCQ caused these increases in mortality rates (could've, I just don't know), but if it was a cure, we'd have seen incredible results by now and even if it was marginally to moderately effective we should've seen that by now too. And we haven't. It's over for HCQ in hospitals.
 
As for Lancet study, read my previous post. The fact that you cannot see it is sad. HCQ does not cause the need for mechanical ventilation, severe CV19 does. To even suggest that it does makes anyone who does look silly. Also, the need for mechanical ventilation is one of our best predictors of death. NYC has shown us that as 90% of patients needing vents die. If you have not, read the Quay article linked in previous post above.

As for your other thoughts. They do not consider that both here in the US and in most of Europe HCQ is only being used very late in the game. There are some who have defied the recommendations and prescribed it earlier but their noted successes are written off as anecdotal.

Instead, why don't you do this. Go figure out which countries have established early use of HCQ as their SOC and then compare their death rates to everyone else who does not use it or only uses it late. For example, Singapore uses HCQ versus a few others with similar case numbers who either do not use it or in hospitals only:
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Or better yet, look at the recent comparison of death rates in Marseilles where they defied the govt and treated early with HCQ with the rest of France or even NY. BTW, Raoult's numbers on far right.
Screen-Shot-2020-05-23-at-9.50.57-AM-1328x765.png


Or how about compare Italy who switched to early use of HCQ and say the UK who has a younger population but does not use HCQ?
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How about Turkey with HCQ as SOC versus US/UK where it is not.
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Or how is Russia doing after they adopted early HCQ use on April 16th?
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How about looking up CFR for Russia who uses HCQ early and compare with the USA?

Russia CFR 1%
USA CFR >6%

India gives HCQ prophylactically and trets early:
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Well, I see you've been scouring the internet for "data" supporting HCQ, this time for prophylaxis and indeed you've found some, although very little of it is of high quality. Let's take them one by one.
  • There's no data I've seen (or others I've asked) that Singapore is using HCQ as part of its standard of care for patients early in their infections and you supplied no corroborating data/link on that either. I'll go a step further: the official SG Ministry of Health clinical guidance document says nothing about using HCQ/CQ for prophylaxis or anything else other than in clinical trials. Here's a few excerpts from their document which say HCQ isn't/hasn't been used.
    • "There is insufficient evidence to support the safety or efficacy of chloroquine or hydroxychloroquine for the treatment of COVID-19 at this time. Current literature consists of narrative reviews, laboratory studies and results from uncontrolled clinical studies conducted in a small number of patients."
    • Locally, in the Interim Treatment Guidelines for COVID-19 Version 1.0, the National Centre for Infectious Diseases (NCID) has suggested hydroxychloroquine may be considered in patients who are unable to participate in a remdesivir trial or use lopinavir/ritonavir or interferon due to contraindications. 22 Patients must also have no contraindications to hydroxychloroquine. NCID does not currently recommend the routine use of chloroquine for COVID-19 infection due to the absence of good quality, peer-reviewed data supporting its use. In addition, NCID considers that chloroquine has more toxicities and is less potent than hydroxychloroquine.
    • http://www.ace-hta.gov.sg/public-da...ials for COVID-19 (updated 14 April 2020).pdf
    • Singapore's low death rate per capita (about the same as South Korea) is due to a very similar response as in SK: aggressive testing, tracing and isolating and everyone wears masks and practices social distancing - they had it going great until they had a big outbreak in the migrant worker dorms, which look to finally being put under control. Their death numbers are also rumored to be low (not counting all deaths from COVID and not all foreign deaths).
  • The Marseilles data prove nothing. We have the same thing in the US, where many smaller, less densely populated cities relative to NYC have lower deaths per capita, like Marseilles and Paris (Marseilles is about 1/5 as dense and 1/3 the pop). The COVEXIT site you got your info from doesn't provide enough data to conclude that Marseilles low rates are due to HCQ (the low rates in other parts of the US's certainly aren't). And Raoult's hospital is meaningless to me, as he's already been discredited.
  • Italy - again, show your data and source and maybe we'll talk. You have a bad habit of not providing sources/links (and not quoting sections that aren't yours).
  • Russia? You're going with Putin, who you know won't allow the truth to be published, as it would make him look bad? Trump's trying to do the same thing in this country with questioning deaths, when in actuality the deaths we have are far more likely to be undercounted than overcounted. Nobody believes Russia's numbers. https://www.npr.org/sections/corona...navirus-deaths-after-reports-of-undercounting
  • And India. Good chuckle at that one. Not even Dr. Boulware believes the Indian HCQ prevention study, expressing skepticism with the numbers and suggesting it could even be propaganda to keep health care workers who don't have proper PPE working.

Let's wait for Boulware's study to come out, as well as many subsequent ones. Maybe it'll show HCQ is effective as a prophylactic or maybe it'll be equivocal, which I kind of expect, since showing a meaningful statistical difference when the vast majority of patients get better on their own will be hard. It would be great if it worked, but very little of what you posted is convincing on that count. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7235596/
 
Interesting research from Singapore saying that COVID positive patients are no long infectious 11 days after their first symptoms and they've removed their requirement for two consecutive negative PCR virus tests before discharge from the hospital (most other countries do the same), especially since patients can test positive well beyond that point (false positives - reports from South Korea of reinfection have been shown to not be actual reinfections, as these were explained by the PCR tests detecting viral RNA, but not active viruses), but they've shown that none of them have viral loads that are capable of infection, in lab viral culture studies. A German study they cited had this point of not being infectious as 8 days after first symptoms. Not having to do viral PCR tests for discharge will be of significant benefit.

https://www.ams.edu.sg/view-pdf.asp...osition+Statement+(final)+23-5-20+(logos).pdf
 
+1
Someone has to explain this weird behavior to me.
I do this if I am out running errands, of if I'm coming from work and planning on stopping at the store on my way home. I can't be bothered with carefully doffing/donning the mask and washing/sanitizing each step of the way so I leave it on. Laugh all you want, IDGAF
 
I do this if I am out running errands, of if I'm coming from work and planning on stopping at the store on my way home. I can't be bothered with carefully doffing/donning the mask and washing/sanitizing each step of the way so I leave it on. Laugh all you want, IDGAF
Gaiter baby. I like the look and the convenience.
 
Insightful commentary about the crisis in nursing home care exposed by COVID with lots of good ideas on how to improve things.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766599
.5% of the population but 25% of the deaths in the US and 50% in the UK. Let that sink in.
And yet nothing has changed to improve that. We worry about masks outdoors but let thousands die in nursing homes. Before this virus hit the US we already knew that the elderly were at the biggest risk. And nothing was done about it. Keep them all stuck together isolated and let them infect each other.
 
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Gaiter baby. I like the look and the convenience.
I'm not wearing a gaiter at work any more than you would. Wearing a single layer of spandex around my face to stop virus particles is as effective as setting up a chain link fence to stop mosquitos. Once the number of cases at work stops circulating, I'll lower the shields appropriately.
 
I'm not wearing a gaiter at work any more than you would. Wearing a single layer of spandex around my face to stop virus particles is as effective as setting up a chain link fence to stop mosquitos. Once the number of cases at work stops circulating, I'll lower the shields appropriately.
Talking about this...
I do this if I am out running errands, of if I'm coming from work and planning on stopping at the store on my way home. I can't be bothered with carefully doffing/donning the mask and washing/sanitizing each step of the way so I leave it on. Laugh all you want, IDGAF
Just when you're out an about not an all day at the office thing.

And unless YOUR the one sick, it's good enough. Because that's what it's for.
 
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Insightful commentary about the crisis in nursing home care exposed by COVID with lots of good ideas on how to improve things.

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2766599
Looks like the authors read my post with those very insights on the CE board a month ago.

I shared a plan to re-open the economy and here are some of the thoughts on LTCs:

Elder care facilities. A focus on nursing homes is crucial given the spread of COVID-19 within them to date.

  1. Optimally elder care facility staff should be tested for COVID-19 on a daily or weekly basis until they have had the disease and are immune. Testing of people in nursing homes ongoing could also create an early warning system to identify and stop localized out breaks.

  2. PPE and other protective gear should be widely available.

  3. Serology tests could also be rolled out once they exist.

  4. Alternatively (or in addition), care facility staff could be paid a bonus by the government for staying COVID-free and allowing the GPS trace of their phone to be used to show they are staying at home and work. Alternatively, a subset of the staff could be put on paid leave while qualified people displaced by the epidemic who have had COVID and recovered/immune can temporarily fill a subset of roles.
 
Looks like the authors read my post with those very insights on the CE board a month ago.

I shared a plan to re-open the economy and here are some of the thoughts on LTCs:

Elder care facilities. A focus on nursing homes is crucial given the spread of COVID-19 within them to date.

  1. Optimally elder care facility staff should be tested for COVID-19 on a daily or weekly basis until they have had the disease and are immune. Testing of people in nursing homes ongoing could also create an early warning system to identify and stop localized out breaks.

  2. PPE and other protective gear should be widely available.

  3. Serology tests could also be rolled out once they exist.

  4. Alternatively (or in addition), care facility staff could be paid a bonus by the government for staying COVID-free and allowing the GPS trace of their phone to be used to show they are staying at home and work. Alternatively, a subset of the staff could be put on paid leave while qualified people displaced by the epidemic who have had COVID and recovered/immune can temporarily fill a subset of roles.
I'm good with all of this. But as for #2 that to me falls on the individual institution. Not a fan of the blame game that has gone on in relation to this.

And the "safety bonus" for #4 is great idea.
 
For those interested in a healthy discussion, here is my entire post from the CE board from a month ago. Not intended to be the be all, end all just a starting point for discussion. I probably should have posted it here instead of CE board. Please forgive anything that might not still make sense like a vaccine taking 12-18 months. That was the prevalent thought a month ago.

________________________________________________________

Re-Opening Society

The reality is that the best case scenario for a vaccine is 12-18 months away, with the likely base case being many years. The fastest moden vaccine development was about 5 years for Ebola in 2014. As such, society should hope for the best (there will be a vaccine at some point) but plan for the base case (a vaccine may take many years and should not be counted as the default case soon unless new data suggests otherwise). As J.R.R. Tolkien once wrote “False hopes are more dangerous than fears”.


We are facing an economic crisis that will hurt those vulnerable and marginalized in our society most. Our city and state budgets are facing large shortfalls due to COVID-19 shutdowns, which means it will be harder for them to provide social services to the poor and disadvantaged. Our hospital systems are losing revenue and starting to struggle. Tens of millions of Americans are soon to be jobless and in many cases without health insurance. Once this first wave passes, we need a way to keep at least a large portion of our society open so that we can maintain basic services, and preserve the well being and health of our society and population.


It makes sense for society to reopen in a thoughtful, cautious, step-wise manner. Based on the data above, people in their 50s or below have a low morbidity rate associated with COVID-19. Once society re-opens we may, as a thought experiment, consider keeping it permanently re-opened for healthy people under 50 (barring unexpected surges elsewhere). This could be done post a controlled repoening with other initiatives in place to protect those most at risk for COVID-19 severe illness or death.


Below is a potential rough draft on how to approach this. The proposal is incomplete and is not meant to be definitive. Rather, it is meant to spark rational, data driven conversation. The goal is to get to a solution that protects the most vulnerable in our society, while also restarting society and the economy. Deep recessions hurt the poor and marginalized in society most as people lose not only their jobs, but may lose healthcare and other services.


  1. Anyone under the age of 50 who does not live with anyone above that age, and lacks comorbidities, is no longer subject to any future quarantines once society reopens slowly. Anyone age 50 who lives with someone older and violates a quarantine is subject to large fines.
    1. For the US 213MM (64%) are under age 50, out of 331M total. This means a large proportion of the population can get back to work. Importantly, this group can also build herd immunity in parallel. We could optionally also include anyone 50-65 without comorbidities but this would merit more analysis.

    2. Anyone with a serious comorbidity (diabetes, immune compromised, etc) would be asked to stay home during lock down disease surge periods. There is a recently published (non-peer reviewed) decision tree that may suggest simple web tools or phone apps that would allow a person to know if it is risky for them to get sick / go out.

    3. This age range can be moved up over time. For example, if things look stable with over 50, people aged 50-60 and then 60-65 etc. can be excluded from future quarantines as epidemic surges occur. Alternatively, this strategy could start with <60 as long as those with comorbidities are excluded.
  2. Anyone who tested positive for COVID-19 and recovers (or later, who tests positive on antibody tests once they work) has a permanent “social distancing passport” in society irrespective of future lock downs.

  3. Make sure sufficient surge capacity exists in hospitals.
    1. While fewer people under 50 go to the ICU per capita, somewhere around 10-15% may need hospitalization for oxygen to be administered or other therapies. Surge capacity should be planned for this loosening in society.

    2. In NYC 29,740 people have been hospitalized from COVID-19, of which ~16% are 44 or younger. Collectively, people 65 and up have 17 times as many people per capita hospitalized then those under 65. This merits further analysis in terms of how much incremental surge capacity would be needed for this strategy.
  4. Protect the elderly. The elderly are most vulnerable to COVID-19 and we should protect them as best we can. See details in “challenges” below.
    1. Special store hours for elderly only.

    2. Special access controls for elder care and nursing homes.

    3. Protect the elderly in hospitals.
  5. Isolate the young who catch COVID-19. Provide options in hotels or other locations to prevent cross infection of the young and elderly who live in common households.

  6. The US will still need test, trace, isolate approaches, antibody testing, and other initiatives to truly open up society for everyone for all time. However, once society opens back up it may be able to permanently re-open for a large subset of the population under age 50 while furthering these approaches in tandem for full population lockdown easement. Test trace isolate will need:
    1. Large scale COVID-19 testing. Current testing is still at lower levels then is needed.

    2. Tooling to allow for contact tracing and isolation. Software may help healthcare workers to trace contacts and remind people under quarantine to stay home. Google and Apple also announced a mobile initiative that may help with this.

    3. Fines of other regulations. If people violate quarantine, there needs to be a mechanism to fine or otherwise encourage people to stay home.

    4. It would be interesting to consider an approach where all test capacity goes to protecting the vulnerable. Today, healthy people under a certain age are not being tested at scale if they have COVID symptoms (for example any out patient in NY or LA). While it is much better to test everyone, perhaps test capacity should be focused in the short run exclusively on protecting the vulnerable - for example should healthcare workers and elder care workers get tested 2-3X per week instead of testing everyone if tests are lacking? This might allow us to reopen sooner as we would not need to treat everyone of every age and health status the same. Instead we could focus care and protection on those most likely to suffer.
  7. The above approach will build herd immunity starting in under 50s and anyone who is infected and recovers. In parallel, emphasis will be placed on protecting the elderly and vulnerable.

Challenges to this approach

There are numerous challenges to this approach. The idea is to start to build herd immunity, get much of the country back to work, while also building out test, trace, isolate and other tools to manage the entire population. No matter what the strategy it is best to ease into it to ensure it is working.


Some challenges include (and there are undoubtedly many others not listed here):

  1. Properly protecting the elderly and vulnerable. One of the challenges to this approach is that particularly in elder care facilities and hospitals, it is largely younger people taking care of the elderly.
    1. Elder care facilities. A focus on nursing homes is crucial given the spread of COVID-19 within them to date.
      1. Optimally elder care facility staff should be tested for COVID-19 on a daily or weekly basis until they have had the disease and are immune. Testing of people in nursing homes ongoing could also create an early warning system to identify and stop localized out breaks.

      2. PPE and other protective great should be widely available.

      3. Serology tests could also be rolled out once they exist.

      4. Alternatively (or in addition), care facility staff could be paid a bonus by the government for staying COVID-free and allowing the GPS trace of their phone to be used to show they are staying at home and work. Alternatively, a subset of the staff could be put on paid leave while qualified people displaced by the epidemic who have had COVID and recovered/immune can temporarily fill a subset of roles.
    2. Grocery stores. Stores should have special hours during which only people over a certain age can go.

    3. Hospitals. Inter-hospital transmission (“nosocomial transmission” is the fancy term) is always a concern in an epidemic. It will be important to maintain non-COVID floors in hospitals or even if possible open COVID-specific care facilities to isolate sick people from the elderly who are in the hospital for other reasons.

    4. Isolation housing for sick young people. For sick people who live with people above a certain age, hotel rooms or other temporary living facilities can be provided during the course of their illness.
  2. Issues with those 50+. The idea is *not* to have an ongoing divide between people above 50 and those below, but rather to only do surge-based lockdowns for those over 50 (and then later 55, 60, 65 etc.) as herd immunity builds. However, there may be circumstances where over 50+ immediately need to be in the workforce or economy for example:
    1. Having an essential services job. You could allow anyone without a co-mrobidity between 50 and 65 to rejoin society in the same manner.

    2. Teaching at a school or facility with young people. Schools are crucial to the functioning of society:
      1. 40% of nurses in the USA have children in K-12. Shutting schools decrease healthcare worker capacity.

      2. Grandparents are often roped in to help with care of children, decreasing their safety.

      3. Schools are the biggest form of child care for society.

      4. Schools are a major part of the economy and employ over 3 million people.

      5. For teachers age 50 and up, what is the best approach? Should their classes be paired over video with an in-class assistant teacher (paid for by the government to facilitate school opening)? Are there other ways to keep schools running while virtualizing those teachers at highest risk? Or do teachers get an optional exemption from ages 50-65 if they have no comorbidities?
  3. Should this actually be <60 or <65 instead of <50?
    1. A number of proposals focus on 60. JP Morgan for the UK, where they suggest a similar strategy but using age 60 as a cutoff). Another proposal from Israel suggests 67 without comorbidities.

    2. In countries surveyed 70-80% of the population is under 60, but only 3-10% of the countries COVID-19 deaths are from people aged <60 (excluding China at 20%).

    3. By including people between ages 50 and 60, who do not have comorbidities, you capture much of the remaining workforce. The % of total deaths represented 50-59 tends to be 3X deaths below 50. This tends to represent an incremental 1.5-10% of total COVID deaths. However, 90%+ of these deaths are people with comorbidities. Removing the comborbid population from consideration decreases the impact of including ages 50-60 significantly.

    4. Notably, be including anyone under 60 you capture roughly 85%+ of the workforce (See table below).
  4. You still need to develop test, trace, isolate and other tools for the at-risk populations and to control spread in <50. As mentioned above, to robustly re-open society we need test/trace/isolate, sufficient surge capacity in hospitals, PPE and protective equipment for healthcare workers, and other capacity to be built out. The approach mentioned is not a stand-alone panacea and requires other additional infrastructure and approaches. However, it may be a solution for a large subset of the population once the country reopens.

  5. Lots of other challenges. There are undoubtedly lots of other challenges to this approach that are not explored here.

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The goal of the above approach is to to protect the people who are at risk, to re-open society economically, and to start to build herd immunity so all of society can go back to functioning as it once did.


The smaller proportion of deaths in COVID-19 patients under the age of 50 suggests a potential path forward to permanently re-open a large productive subset of society. This post was meant to spur additional thinking, analysis, and discussion of this and related approaches. It is quite possible this is the wrong approach. However, data-driven logical conversations around this and other ideas may yield insights that will allow us to keep open, once we slowly re-open.
 
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There is a lot of blame to go around regarding nursing homes.

The primary regulatory body for nursing homes in this country is Centers for Medicaid and Medicare (CMS) which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services. CMS by statute is obliged to inspect every nursing home that receives Medicare/Medicaid in the country. The inspections are done in conjunction with each State's Health Department and ranks facilities from 1 to 5 for things such as quality of care, life-safety code violations, emergency plans etc. Because each state DOH gets involved scoring is not uniform and varies widely across the country.

Because these are federal/state initiatives, the grading of nursing homes is not only not uniform, but so are the regulations.Because assisted living facilities are for the most part private pay, they are not subject to CMS regulations.

Nursing homes are as much real estate endeavors as they are medical facilities. They are for the most part in theory designed to fill in the gap between hospital care and end-of-life care such as hospice care.

Most operate on very thin profit margins and many people who work in nursing homes are the equivalent of employees who work in day care centers. Many do not operate with generators and do not have contingency plans for evacuation, never mind a pandemic.

In other words, they were/are the ideal setting for spreading a pandemic. At assisted living facilities, residents can shelter-in-place in their rooms and have meals left outside their doors. When you add the overall much better health of assisted living facilities health as compared to nursing home residents, it is perfectly sensible why assisted living facilities are faring much better than nursing homes.

Blaming governors (regardless of political affiliation) for the deaths of nursing home patients is ignorant, and fails to understand how nursing homes work, how they are designed; how they are staffed and most importantly who owns and operates these facilities.

If anyone is to blame it is CMS who has the authority to address these issues and who should of had pandemic plans in place in conjunction with the CDC.
 
Looks like the authors read my post with those very insights on the CE board a month ago.

I shared a plan to re-open the economy and here are some of the thoughts on LTCs:

Elder care facilities. A focus on nursing homes is crucial given the spread of COVID-19 within them to date.

  1. Optimally elder care facility staff should be tested for COVID-19 on a daily or weekly basis until they have had the disease and are immune. Testing of people in nursing homes ongoing could also create an early warning system to identify and stop localized out breaks.

  2. PPE and other protective gear should be widely available.

  3. Serology tests could also be rolled out once they exist.

  4. Alternatively (or in addition), care facility staff could be paid a bonus by the government for staying COVID-free and allowing the GPS trace of their phone to be used to show they are staying at home and work. Alternatively, a subset of the staff could be put on paid leave while qualified people displaced by the epidemic who have had COVID and recovered/immune can temporarily fill a subset of roles.
All that above is being done and they still are dying at an alarming rate. But people are satisfied with that little amount of effort. So little it's not worth doing.
 
All that above is being done and they still are dying at an alarming rate. But people are satisfied with that little amount of effort. So little it's not worth doing.
All that above was not being done.

https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020...ronavirus-will-get-170m-in-federal-funds.html
From the article:

The state did not announce universal testing for all nursing home residents and employees until May 12, later than eight other states, according to the report. The state delayed on-site inspections of long-term care facilities until mid-April, after reports surfaced that one nursing home was storing 17 bodies in a makeshift morgue. Health inspectors lacked adequate PPE, Health Commissioner Judy Persichilli said explaining the delay.​

Nursing home operators claimed hospitals received priority treatment for supplies and staff in the first six weeks of the outbreak, the report found.​


The nursing home near me was similar to the story below and has had well over 200 cases and over 60 deaths. The one mentioned below was as bad as the one near me.
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loc...ons-at-facility-even-before-covid-19/2384748/
 
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https://www.jsonline.com/story/news...-shows-promise-reducing-mortality/5248710002/

moral of the story, don't wait till people are on vents to use these treatments

Posted this the day it came out. A couple of other small studies looked like plasma might help intubated patients, but they were too small to draw conclusions from (and didn't have matched controls like this one did).

The potentially big news with this study is that the hazard ratio for non-intubated patients in the study was 0.19, meaning slightly over an 80% reduction in mortality vs. the matched controls. Only problem is the study was small, so that hazard ratio 95% confidence interval was 0.05-0.72, so it could be a reduction from 95% to 28%. 28% would be great but 50% or more would be a gamechanger, which is why I've been so high on CP. Need more data and it's coming...

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ocial-distancing.191275/page-128#post-4573596
 
Incredible drop of deaths - thank God. Maybe this means treatments are working??
Likely a reporting error and will smooth it out with a relatively higher day tomorrow, but the anomalous lows are lower then the anomalous lows of last week and the week before, etc. And the smoothed highs are lower then the respective smoothed higher from last week also, etc. Trends are great.
 
Likely a reporting error and will smooth it out with a relatively higher day tomorrow, but the anomalous lows are lower then the anomalous lows of last week and the week before, etc. And the smoothed highs are lower then the respective smoothed higher from last week also, etc. Trends are great.
Yes they are and hopefully people now see the need for testing, tracing, isolating and wearing masks/social distancing. In theory, we ought to be able to reopen most elements of work and society (outside of large, close gatherings) without major flareups or outbreaks if we continue following these. The problem is a decent percentage of people seem to think that wearing masks and social distancing aren't worth practicing.

Either they don't believe the virus is as transmissible as it's been shown to be or they feel that if they get it it won't be too bad (and it's not for most); the problem with the latter is that it also means they simply don't care about infecting and killing others if they happen to have it and are contagious (even if asymptomatic), as that's the biggest reason for wearing masks and social distancing.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carlie...d-as-trump-pushes-for-reopening/#20935e703ba5

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6920e2.htm
 
It's time to apply the George Aiken solution to this.

When Vietnam seemed endless, the Vermont Senator said that :"Announce that we won and go home."
 
I can't keep up with every post in this thread, but has there been a discussion on the latest CDC estimates that show the IFR mat be as low as 0.26% when you factor in 35% of cases are reportedly asymptomatic? The best estimate symptomatic IFR is listed at 0.4%. This would be very good news if true.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

It would be good news. If it were true - and keep in mind that if it were true, it would "only" mean 520K total deaths over the next 12-24 months, assuming no cure/vaccine (or interventions) if ~60% become infected (herd immunity level) and only 65% of those have symptoms and 0.4% of those with symptoms dies (so 330MM Americans x 0.6 x 0.65 = 130MM symptomatic Americans x 0.4% fatality rate = 520K deaths).

Here's the problem with this calculation. It flies completely in the face of the best data we have on total IFR from NY/Spain, which is actually more conservative than the CDC's symptomatic IFR (as it includes both symptomatic and asymptomatic people). We have pretty solid antibody population testing now in NY and Spain, with NY showing 12.3% infected, via antibody testing (which includes all infected, whether symptomatic or asymptomatic) and Spain showing 5.0% infected.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ocial-distancing.191275/page-111#post-4557431

In NY, when the study was done in late April, there were 19K confirmed deaths (not even using the 24.5K confirmed + presumed deaths), so the IFR was 19.5K/2.46MM infected (12.3% of 20MM in NY) or 0.8%; if one includes the presumed dead, which most do (and most think that's still an underestimate based on excess deaths), then the IFR jumps to 24.5K/2.46MM infected or 1.0%. In Spain, as of about 5/15, their antibody population testing showed an infection rate of 5.0%, so their 27K deaths/2.33MM infected (5% of 46.7MM) equals an IFR of 1.16%. On the CDC's basis (excluding 35% of the population), these 1.0-1.2% IFR estimates would be 1.6-1.8% (vs. just symptomatic people), so hard to imagine that number coming down to 0.4% for the US.

Of course, it's possible that areas like these that were hit harder than most other areas and have much higher deaths per capita than everywhere else, have led to a higher percentage of vulnerable people being infected, artificially raising death rates a bit. What we really need to know is the antibody levels in some less impacted states to see if they only have maybe 1-3% infected, as many experts think. This would be about 1/5th to 1/10th the NY infection rate and could explain why so many states have per capita fatality rates that are 1/5th to 1/10th of NYs (NY's is around 1500/1MM and the US, not including NY/NJ has a rate of 200/1MM or 1/7th of NYs). Meaning it's very likely that the reason so many states have lower per capita death rates is that they simply have proportionally lower infection rates, which is not surprising given far less density and regional commuting traffic, especially in NYC metro.

Having said all that, I've been saying in previous posts that the overall final IFR (vs. all infections) would likely be between 0.5-1.0% and if that is multiplied by the 60% of 330MM (which = 198MM) that would get the virus at herd immunity, eventually, that's 1-2MM dead in the US. So yes, 500K would be "great" relatively speaking, but it's likely too low of an estimate.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ocial-distancing.191275/page-111#post-4557369

There is one possible saving grace here (outside of a cure/vaccine) which I mentioned last week based on the evaluation of immunological responses in people that have been tested for antibodies, both those infected previously and uninfected previously. It turns out that 40-60% of uninfected people who do not possess any antibodies do have some CD4+ T-cell activity against this coronavirus, likely due to previous exposure to other coronaviruses, in a phenomenon known as cross-reactivity. If, somehow, some percentage of these people were actually immune to the virus or if it only gave them a very mild case, that would be beyond huge, but it's impossible to know that yet and impossible to rely on.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ocial-distancing.191275/page-116#post-4563258
 
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Article about nursing home problem across the world. Focus was on hospitals but many didn't think about nursing homes. Because of prior experience with SARS some Asian countries did a better job than North America/Europe. Plus personally I think it's partially a reflection of the importance/priority elderly have in general in the east vs the west.

From the article:

Comas-Herrera said Asian countries that were badly hit by SARS (severe acute respiratory syndrome) were "extremely serious about making sure that Covid didn't devastate care homes" and prepared in ways North America and Europe did not.

They moved swiftly to lock down homes and introduce measures such as widespread testing, PPE, temperature checks and strict isolation zones. In South Korea it was common for staff to isolate with residents and be replaced every two weeks.
Of the 247 total Covid-19 deaths in South Korea that had been confirmed as of April 30, 84 were care home residents -- a share of 34%. No large care home outbreaks have occurred since the measures were implemented.

Hong Kong says it has not had a single infection in a care home, and only four deaths and just over 1,000 cases in total. In Singapore, just two of 18 deaths have taken place among care home residents.

"There's been a lot of focus in hospitals and focus on community transmission, but not in care homes. And I think that reflects the low status that the care sector has in many countries," said Comas-Herrera.

The authors of the JAMA report on Seattle write that: "Although many prefer not to think about nursing homes, they are a critical safety net for frail older adults and part of the fabric of our society."

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/26/world/elderly-care-homes-coronavirus-intl/index.html
 
It would be good news. If it were true - and keep in mind that if it were true, it would "only" mean 520K total deaths over the next 12-24 months, assuming no cure/vaccine (or interventions) if ~60% become infected (herd immunity level) and only 65% of those have symptoms and 0.4% of those with symptoms dies (so 330MM Americans x 0.6 x 0.65 = 130MM symptomatic Americans x 0.4% fatality rate = 520MM deaths).

Here's the problem with this calculation. It flies completely in the face of the best data we have on total IFR from NY/Spain, which is actually more conservative than the CDC's symptomatic IFR (as it includes both symptomatic and asymptomatic people). We have pretty solid antibody population testing now in NY and Spain, with NY showing 12.3% infected, via antibody testing (which includes all infected, whether symptomatic or asymptomatic) and Spain showing 5.0% infected.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ocial-distancing.191275/page-111#post-4557431

In NY, when the study was done in late April, there were 19K confirmed deaths (not even using the 24.5K confirmed + presumed deaths), so the IFR was 19.5K/2.46MM infected (12.3% of 20MM in NY) or 0.8%; if one includes the presumed dead, which most do (and most think that's still an underestimate based on excess deaths), then the IFR jumps to 24.5K/2.46MM infected or 1.0%. In Spain, as of about 5/15, their antibody population testing showed an infection rate of 5.0%, so their 27K deaths/2.33MM infected (5% of 46.7MM) equals an IFR of 1.16%. On the CDC's basis (excluding 35% of the population), these 1.0-1.2% IFR estimates would be 1.6-1.8% (vs. just symptomatic people), so hard to imagine that number coming down to 0.4% for the US.

Of course, it's possible that areas like these that were hit harder than most other areas and have much higher deaths per capita than everywhere else, have led to a higher percentage of vulnerable people being infected, artificially raising death rates a bit. What we really need to know is the antibody levels in some less impacted states to see if they only have maybe 1-3% infected, as many experts think. This would be about 1/5th to 1/10th the NY infection rate and could explain why so many states have per capita fatality rates that are 1/5th to 1/10th of NYs (NY's is around 1500/1MM and the US, not including NY/NJ has a rate of 200/1MM or 1/7th of NYs). Meaning it's very likely that the reason so many states have lower per capita death rates is that they simply have proportionally lower infection rates, which is not surprising given far less density and regional commuting traffic, especially in NYC metro.

Having said all that, I've been saying in previous posts that the overall final IFR (vs. all infections) would likely be between 0.5-1.0% and if that is multiplied by the 60% of 330MM (which = 198MM) that would get the virus at herd immunity, eventually, that's 1-2MM dead in the US. So yes, 500K would be "great" relatively speaking, but it's likely too low of an estimate.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ocial-distancing.191275/page-111#post-4557369

There is one possible saving grace here (outside of a cure/vaccine) which I mentioned last week based on the evaluation of immunological responses in people that have been tested for antibodies, both those infected previously and uninfected previously. It turns out that 40-60% of uninfected people who do not possess any antibodies do have some CD4+ T-cell activity against this coronavirus, likely due to previous exposure to other coronaviruses, in a phenomenon known as cross-reactivity. If, somehow, some percentage of these people were actually immune to the virus or if it only gave them a very mild case, that would be beyond huge, but it's impossible to know that yet and impossible to rely on.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...ocial-distancing.191275/page-116#post-4563258

For what it's worth at my place of work we've maintained a 0.5% final IFR based on our clinical data and death/disability claim analysis. This accounts for true case totals (assumed asymptomatic positives) as well as error bias (non-covid deaths being counted as covid, presumed covid deaths without followup confirmation, etc).

The wildcard in the IFR is simply how many people have been infected. And unfortunately if you go off the analog of other more mild coronaviruses, it's possible that immunity only lasts 1-5 months in which case some of the first infected may not longer have antibodies active in their systems (they may still have a T-cell response, but I'm not sure if you can test for that). This could make antibody testing misleading or even irrelevant in the long term in terms of capturing the full picture of how widespread the disease is/was.
 
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