My original assertion was that masks are a farce and I still believe using the wrong mask and not covering your eyes is a danger and that people have been misled by the media and government to thinking they are safe by using any old mask which leads to dangerous behavior like standing to close to others, lingering in stores, etc. Wear a mask but understand its limitations and act accordingly.
Dr Fauci States That Students Probably Won't Return To Campuses For Fall Semester
- Thread starter Morrischiano
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If by "masks are a farce" you meant "they are integral in limiting the spread" then I agree.
You beat me to it. Wear the mask and prevent an explosion from a sneeze/cough from getting dispersed into the air. Otherwise it's trapped in the mask or should fall downward out of the mask.
Yep..assume everything is infected. That's the best way to be vigilant.
Lighten up Francis..it actually was funny..and true as well.
Are we just ignoring this?
Here's a chart from one of the boxes in my surgery center that explains it all.
Not at all. You still haven't admitted the flaws of most masks. You keep standing on your crazy soap box crying out about the need for them when they don't stop anything until you get a N95. Happy that your are comfortable with anything homemade and low grade. Keep living an unprotected life
Level 1 is not N95. And it has a filter efficiency of 95%.
https://healthcentricadvisors.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/3_MaskEnomics_Poster_2012.pdf
Even a mask only limiting the spread to 50% can be very useful.
If you're wearing a mask that only has 50% effectiveness against spreading the virus and I'm wearing a mask that only has 50% effectiveness against receiving the virus from others, that would reduce the probability by an impressive 75% of you transmitting the virus to me versus neither of us wearing any mask at all.
My staff and I are not taking care of any known covid positive patients. The facility I run is staying as a clean facility . We are not wearing N95 masks..which are recommend only for people around known positive patients. We are wearing regular masks in whatever level I can find.
Back to the topic at hand, NJ families are suing the University of Maryland and Towson University, claiming the quality of online classes is diminished compared to live classes, and demanding a refund of tuition and fees from the day the schools closed on March 19 through the end of the spring semester, according to the class-action suit filed Wednesday in Morris County Superior Court.
“The online learning options being offered to students at University System of Maryland schools are subpar in practically every aspect and a shadow of what they once were, from the lack of facilities, materials, and access to faculty,” the parents alleged. “Students have been deprived of the opportunity for collaborative learning and in-person dialogue, feedback, and critique.”
https://www.app.com/story/news/coro...maryland-colleges-tuition-refunds/5187096002/
My son, a freshman computer science major at Rutgers, says the online classes at Rutgers have been fine. He says he has access to professors and teaching assistants.
Rutgers sent an e-mail to students earlier this week about their tiered "plan" for the fall semester. It sounds like there will be some return to campus with a hybrid of in person and online instruction, but they are not ready to commit to any one plan yet.
“The online learning options being offered to students at University System of Maryland schools are subpar in practically every aspect and a shadow of what they once were, from the lack of facilities, materials, and access to faculty,” the parents alleged. “Students have been deprived of the opportunity for collaborative learning and in-person dialogue, feedback, and critique.”
https://www.app.com/story/news/coro...maryland-colleges-tuition-refunds/5187096002/
My son, a freshman computer science major at Rutgers, says the online classes at Rutgers have been fine. He says he has access to professors and teaching assistants.
Rutgers sent an e-mail to students earlier this week about their tiered "plan" for the fall semester. It sounds like there will be some return to campus with a hybrid of in person and online instruction, but they are not ready to commit to any one plan yet.
Are N95 masks still in short supply for the medical community? And are most made in China like the masks we wear in the store. We have several different brands but all are made on China. Like you said we get whatever we can get.
Just came across this, have seen him many times on the Today show.....their expert virologist contributor. Very fit healthy guy (runs 5-10 miles/day) and takes precautions and he came down with COVID and had to be hospitalized. Tried to treat at home but eventually had trouble breathing and called ambulance to hospital. Wore masks, gloves, wipes things down but sounds like it could have been on a crowded flight home to New Orleans from NY and possibly through his eyes.
From the article:
It's possible that Fair contracted the virus during a recent flight from New York City to New Orleans, he told TODAY. He was flying home, and his airline did not enforce social distancing measures.
"I had a mask, I had gloves on, I did ... my normal wipe-down, but you can still get it through your eyes," he said. "I was seated right next to someone. The flight was full."
Once Fair arrived, he left his home once to go to the grocery store, where he practiced "max precautions," he said. Three to four days after his flight, he started to develop "a complete lack of appetite," muscle aches and a slight fever.
"At that point, it wasn't 'classic COVID symptoms,' but nothing is. That's what we're learning," he explained. "It's just so variable."
For the first three to four days of symptoms, Fair said it wasn't serious enough for him to seek medical attention. He had spikes in his fever that got as high as 104 degrees, but he opted to self-treat with Tylenol, lots of fluids and fruit — "basically what you do when you have any cold or flu," he added.
But heading into last weekend, his symptoms started to worsen, and on Saturday, he noticed he was getting very short of breath.
"By Monday, I couldn't take a full breath and had to call an ambulance," he recalled.
At 42 years old, Fair runs 5-10 miles a day, has a "good" lung capacity and no underlying conditions. So he said one of the learnings of his experience is "if it can take me down, it can take anyone down."
As he told one fan who responded to his announcement on Twitter, "Nobody is immune! Not even a virus hunter."
Fair hopes to be discharged from the hospital this weekend and has recently left the critical care floor.
https://www.today.com/health/nbc-news-contributor-dr-joseph-fair-sick-coronavirus-t181487
From the article:
It's possible that Fair contracted the virus during a recent flight from New York City to New Orleans, he told TODAY. He was flying home, and his airline did not enforce social distancing measures.
"I had a mask, I had gloves on, I did ... my normal wipe-down, but you can still get it through your eyes," he said. "I was seated right next to someone. The flight was full."
Once Fair arrived, he left his home once to go to the grocery store, where he practiced "max precautions," he said. Three to four days after his flight, he started to develop "a complete lack of appetite," muscle aches and a slight fever.
"At that point, it wasn't 'classic COVID symptoms,' but nothing is. That's what we're learning," he explained. "It's just so variable."
For the first three to four days of symptoms, Fair said it wasn't serious enough for him to seek medical attention. He had spikes in his fever that got as high as 104 degrees, but he opted to self-treat with Tylenol, lots of fluids and fruit — "basically what you do when you have any cold or flu," he added.
But heading into last weekend, his symptoms started to worsen, and on Saturday, he noticed he was getting very short of breath.
"By Monday, I couldn't take a full breath and had to call an ambulance," he recalled.
At 42 years old, Fair runs 5-10 miles a day, has a "good" lung capacity and no underlying conditions. So he said one of the learnings of his experience is "if it can take me down, it can take anyone down."
As he told one fan who responded to his announcement on Twitter, "Nobody is immune! Not even a virus hunter."
Fair hopes to be discharged from the hospital this weekend and has recently left the critical care floor.
https://www.today.com/health/nbc-news-contributor-dr-joseph-fair-sick-coronavirus-t181487
Here's an article about a particle testing company who used the machine that is used to certify N95 masks to test different materials that people have used to make masks. Doesn't speak to the safety of some of the materials used and breathing in those particles of such material like vacuum bags/furnace filters...etc. They tested breathability and filtration levels and then also gave sort of a rating taking into account both breathability/filtration together. This isn't an expert study by scientists and such but after those fashion designers did those tests with the blue shop towels etc...they got some help from that particle testing company to take it a step further with the actual testing machine to test various materials....so while not formal lab setting it is some sort of gauge at least.
https://www.businessinsider.com/the...rticles-best-in-homemade-masks-testing-2020-4
https://www.maskfaq.com/test-results
https://www.businessinsider.com/the...rticles-best-in-homemade-masks-testing-2020-4
https://www.maskfaq.com/test-results
It's like that Erin Bromage link in the pinned thread posted by one of our doctors about virology/spread. Enclosed space and duration of exposure are big risks and obviously an airline flight poses both.
He actually tested negative 4 times but he thinks it went through his system by time he got to hospital but was still feeling the after effects. Also said this morning on his interview it's possibly that or possibly that test are also not perfect and can miss cases.
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Sorry for Dr. Fair, but what was he thinking when he got on a plane (a packed flight) from NYC to New Orleans?
Have seen several recent news stories of packed flights. It's understood that the airlines are hurting. But the airlines are repeating the same type of boneheaded mistake that the NYC subway did-signficantly decreasing the number of flights, resulting in more crowded flights.
United has advertised, and puts on their reservation system, that you cannot reserve a middle seat. But then they sell those seats anyway. Screw United.
We need to be in Arizona later this month to take care of some personal business that cannot be done by phone or a zoom meeting. There is no way we are getting on a plane. We are road tripping it with a single stop between, either staying at a campsite in a tent or in a hotel, bringing our own bedding.
He said this morn it was suppose to be a “social distanced” flight but as you’d expect they probably aren’t much of the time.
The airlines should be ashamed of their haphazard and misleading policies putting their customers in harm's way. The FAA should immediately issue requirements for social distancing and a unified program for screening passengers. People wait in long enough lines for TSA--perhaps they should be temperature screened while waiting.
It's particularly concerning that Dr. Fair wore a mask and gloves, and he thinks that he may have been infected through his eyes. Someone gave an example in this thread that in the opinion of one medical professional, a person within the breathing vector of another person, even if both wearing masks, could get infected. No planes for us anytime soon.
Nothing is a guarantee. It's only about reducing the chances and possibly reducing the amount of viral load exposure so you stand a better chance of fighting it off if you get it but nothing is 100%. Masks can help keep your germs near you but in a plane and some of these other places you're on top of each other to a degree so you know it might help some but not as much as you might think.
Enclosed space and duration are greater risks.....planes, public transport, restaurants, bars etc...pose higher risks because it's enclosed and you're there for a sustained period. That SK office building where one side of the office was pretty infected and the other side not as much is a good illustration of duration and proximity.
@RUfubar, one of our resident doctors treating COVID patients, posted this link in the pinned thread and called it simple virology for a dummy. I thought it provided good info for laymen like ourselves.
https://www.erinbromage.com/post/th...te=1&user_id=4d8144c2efd0b72313efefae51ff2c1a
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I heard (didn’t read) of an article/op ed in the Philadelphia Enquirer (sorry no link) that says NJ colleges are recruiting those parents and students who went to an out of state school and aren’t too happy with their distance learning experience.
I'm not being alarmist, but that is quite a strong statement to "ensure that everybody is safe and secure." Attorneys are saving that tweet for their files.
Yes you will get the ambulance chasers trying to file lawsuits but they will have a to prove a lot of things to find a school liable. Also, how is this any different than returning to your office at work? Ponder that one for a moment. Are you going to sue your employer?
If a school follows all the recommended guidelines are they liable just because people get sick? The infection can happen off campus just as much as on campus.
Other things to consider are:
- Anyone sending their child to school in the fall is doing so knowing that the virus is still around or could reappear.
- They are implicitly accepting there is a risk and how is it different than a breakout of meningitis, measles, etc?
- I expect enrollments will be down in the fall and/or online enrollments will increase if the option is offered by the school.
- Viruses don't come with a last known address.
- Contact tracing won't be fool proof either as this is something new AND people have to be truthful about their whereabouts.
- College students have a penchant to do a lot of risky things and have contact with lots of people they don't know well.
- We already have proof of this behavior based on what occurred during spring breaks after the virus was known to be a real issue.
- College kids right now are still having booty calls or going to their significant other's house and staying for a few days. I know of several examples myself not that I agree with the decisions.
I don't disagree with you. But school Presidents and business leaders would be well advised to say something less definitive than what Northeastern's President said. Something more like that "we cannot eliminate all risks, but we are taking reasonable safety measures". Even with that, there is going to be somebody who will want to sue and there will be a line of ambulance chasers ready to take the case.
I do patents, and I get regular e-mails offering CLE courses on Covid law.
Not looking for a fight either. Just know lots like to mention lawyers without context but your response is very reasonable.
He promised them to be "safe and secure". He didn't say healthy.
Making this about politics is something that I just don't understand. Germany is going to be playing pro sports tomorrow. They have opened their schools. Are they ignoring "science" too? Much of the U.S. looks a lot more like Germany than it does NY/NJ.
I think it's remarkable how all of these politicians on tv in the U.S. seem to be able to get haircuts, coloring, and cosmetic care when no one else can. If anything, that is the divide in the U.S.; those that are able to live life close to normally are much more likely to tell others not to do things. Most of them I suspect do not have young kids at home or have lost their income.
Except the important note that there is a reason why all of those graphs circulated in March would have gotten you an F in engineering school. No labels on axes or scale is next to useless. It turns out they had the magnitude of resources needed and the line showing capacity in the wrong place. Somehow, I feel that if they drew the graph and the steep curve stayed below capacity it wouldn't have had the same impact on the public and decision making.
Does this include the ramping up of resources, or the actual flattening of the curve which did happen?
We did see health care systems overwhelmed in other countries. In NYC, if it didn't exceed the pre-covid capacity, it came really dang close.
The focus should have been on protecting those that were actually known to be vulnerable given the stats from Italy and that cruise ship the Diamond Princess. Cratering the entire economy for the whole country for all ages was like using a nuclear bomb to take out OBL. Sure, it did the job, but there is an awful lot of extra collateral damage. What could have been done was that low hanging fruit could have been cancelled (like large gatherings and unnecessary travel for example) while other things should not have been.
For the most part, the critical shortage in resources was said to be in beds, ICU beds, and ventilators. Just about everywhere other than parts of NY/NJ, those resources were more than adequate.
The Governor of NJ just continues to make claims that he doesn’t have the money to
Reopen the state
Other very critical shortages in resources you didn’t name were PPE and healthcare professionals.
As to hands and eyes
Do glasses help to protect the eyes?
When I shop I carry an alcohol spray and at the end of each aisle I spray the front and back of each hand
I also spray the cart
Do glasses help to protect the eyes?
When I shop I carry an alcohol spray and at the end of each aisle I spray the front and back of each hand
I also spray the cart
I agree protecting the vulnerable should have been a higher priority.
But there is also the false notion that because this has hit the LTC's so hard that it wasn't that bad otherwise. I'll guess that it has killed 45K non LTC's, in 2 months, with all sorts of measures in place. Those are pretty serious #'s.
And that line of thinking caries on to all the non NY/NJ area's that were not hit that hard by this. We don't know how hard they would have been hit if they hadn't closed things down. We do know that in a state like Florida, which was not hit especially hard relative to the NYC metro area, which did put lock down measures in place, that almost 2K people have died in 6 weeks.
In general I feel there is a false dichotomy in place (along political lines), on the one side is those that feel we need to keep this locked down until no lives are at risk, and on the other are those that feel this is completely overblown and we should just carry on like normal.
IMO this thing is pretty freaking bad, but we have to figure out a way to get the economy going.
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