Established P5 coach

[vkj91]

Seems a lot of posters keep stating they want an established P5 coach if a change is made. I get that but I'd like to get a feel for what people consider an established coach. I'm assuming people realize we aren't going out and poaching someone who is dominating their conference and making 3 million already. That being said, I looked up a few people. I'm not saying these are options just asking if you would consider them as established. I decided to start by only posting records because certain people will create an emotional response. For the record, I believe none of these guy have had a scandal and all are P5 only records.

67-27 won at least 9 games every year.
35-27 Won 10 games once and won only 3 once
48-32 Won 10 one time and won as few as 5 once.
49-28. Won 10 once and as few as 4 once
31-22. Won as many as 9 and won as few as 6 a couple of times.

 

[miketd1]

It's hard to make a decision based on record alone.

Schiano's record wasn't very good (esp. against better competition), but I'd take him back right now in a heartbeat.

Going back to your Q, I simply would like a guy who 1.) runs a clean program & 2.) has at least 5 years P5 coordinator experience or 3 years head coaching experience (doesn't have to be P5), & 3.) has overachieved everywhere he has been.

 

[derleider]

Seems a lot of posters keep stating they want an established P5 coach if a change is made. I get that but I'd like to get a feel for what people consider an established coach. I'm assuming people realize we aren't going out and poaching someone who is dominating their conference and making 3 million already. That being said, I looked up a few people. I'm not saying these are options just asking if you would consider them as established. I decided to start by only posting records because certain people will create an emotional response. For the record, I believe none of these guy have had a scandal and all are P5 only records.

67-27 won at least 9 games every year.
35-27 Won 10 games once and won only 3 once
48-32 Won 10 one time and won as few as 5 once.
49-28. Won 10 once and as few as 4 once
31-22. Won as many as 9 and won as few as 6 a couple of times.

When you say P5 only, do you mean against only P5 opponents, or only in their time as a coach of a P5 school.

 

[Ole Cabbagehead]

I agree that you cannot do it on record alone like that. The highwater mark is helpful, the low water mark doesn't really mean much as all college teams have bad rebuilding years once in awhile.

I would more like to see a strong game day coach, with a strong identity on at least one side of the ball. I agree that I want to see someone who has substantial coordinator experience. I want someone who has run a program successfully, I don't care if its the cleanest, as long as it was run in a way that will work here. I want to see someone who has demonstrated an ability to get us into the top 3rd of the Big Ten. And would be viewed as on par with or better than all but the best coaches in the Big Ten.

I don't think we can get this person, so we will have to gamble on one or more of these items.

 

[rutgersguy1]

I don't really know why there's that expectation of a P5 coach. I mean in most circumstances it just doesn't happen even at "name" programs. The most likely way you'd get it would be with someone who's been fired or may not have "bloomed" yet like Mullen before last year.

I've listed these a couple times but..

Brian Kelly ND mid major
Urban Meyer/Jim McElwain Florida mid majors
Mark Richt Georgia coordinator
Mark Helfrich/Chip Kelly Oregon coordinators
David Shaw/Jim Harbaugh Stanford coordinator/mid major
Jimbo Fisher FSU coordinator
Gus Malzahn Auburn coordinator/mid major (1yr)
Hugh Freeze Ole Miss mid major
Dan Mullen Miss. St coordinator
Butch Jones Tenn mid major
Dabo Swinney Clemson assistant
Art Briles Baylor mid major
Kevin Sumlin Texas A&M mid major
Chris Peterson Washington mid major
Gary Patterson TCU coordinator
and it goes on and on.....

As to your list I think the first would be one people would like but once you mention his name some may not. Without looking I have a strong idea of who it is because he's the only one I know that could be available that has won at least 9 every year. I think the 3rd and 4th should be considered "established" just looking at the record, but you'd want to delve into conference record and what not see if it's a good candidate. The other 2 I'd consider "established" too because when it gets thrown around I just take that term to mean you've been around and done okay or better. Their overall record is closer to .500 so they'd need a harder look to justify.

Outside of some special circumstances that might align because of timing (solid coach is fired and you happen to be looking at the same time), I don't think it's all that realistic a requirement. As you see many successful coaches, at "name" programs no less, were hired that weren't "established" P5 coaches.

 

[rutgersguy1]

When you say P5 only, do you mean against only P5 opponents, or only in their time as a coach of a P5 school.

I assumed the latter and that the records were overall records during that person's time as a P5 coach.

 

[miketd1]

How about Chuck Martin?

Wiki
Miami (OH) Bio
ND article

He's the right age (47)
Has HC experience (in 2nd year at Miami)
Has substantial OC experience at ND
Has history of overachieving
Has the right "look" (if that means anything)

 

[vkj91]

I don't really know why there's that expectation of a P5 coach. I mean in most circumstances it just doesn't happen even at "name" programs. The most likely way you'd get it would be with someone who's been fired or may not have "bloomed" yet like Mullen before last year.

I've listed these a couple times but..

Brian Kelly ND mid major
Urban Meyer/Jim McElwain Florida mid majors
Mark Richt Georgia coordinator
Mark Helfrich/Chip Kelly Oregon coordinators
David Shaw/Jim Harbaugh Stanford coordinator/mid major
Jimbo Fisher FSU coordinator
Gus Malzahn Auburn coordinator/mid major (1yr)
Hugh Freeze Ole Miss mid major
Dan Mullen Miss. St coordinator
Butch Jones Tenn mid major
Dabo Swinney Clemson assistant
Art Briles Baylor mid major
Kevin Sumlin Texas A&M mid major
Chris Peterson Washington mid major
Gary Patterson TCU coordinator
and it goes on and on.....

As to your list I think the first would be one people would like but once you mention his name some may not. Without looking I have a strong idea of who it is because he's the only one I know that could be available that has won at least 9 every year. I think the 3rd and 4th should be considered "established" just looking at the record, but you'd want to delve into conference record and what not see if it's a good candidate. The other 2 I'd consider "established" too because when it gets thrown around I just take that term to mean you've been around and done okay or better. Their overall record is closer to .500 so they'd need a harder look to justify.

Outside of some special circumstances that might align because of timing (solid coach is fired and you happen to be looking at the same time), I don't think it's all that realistic a requirement. As you see many successful coaches, at "name" programs no less, were hired that weren't "established" P5 coaches.

I agree with 100% that we don't need a P5 guy...I was simply working within the board narrative.

 

[vkj91]

I assumed the latter and that the records were overall records during that person's time as a P5 coach.

yes, it is overall record. however, one person had a huge overhaul and I didn't include his early years.

 

[tuffer76]

How about Chuck Martin?

Wiki
Miami (OH) Bio
ND article

He's the right age (47)
Has HC experience (in 2nd year at Miami)
Has substantial OC experience at ND
Has history of overachieving
Has the right "look" (if that means anything)

I like Chuck Martin. But he needs to prove a little more that he can run a successful program. He took over a disaster program at Miami but is only in year 2. Need to show he can make that program successful. I actually like his performance at Grand Valley St. more than I value his Notre Dame experience, but it all needs to come together at Miami before he can take the next step.

 

[miketd1]

tuffer: totally agree. But his ND pedigree would give him a lot of immediate street cred in these parts...

 

[vkj91]

I like Chuck Martin. But he needs to prove a little more that he can run a successful program. He took over a disaster program at Miami but is only in year 2. Need to show he can make that program successful. I actually like his performance at Grand Valley St. more than I value his Notre Dame experience, but it all needs to come together at Miami before he can take the next step.

But in reality he could be the exact type of guy we need. he's proven he can win and win big and he's innovative enough to maybe get us to the next level. He's also as you said probably a year or two away from being considered ready. as a result, wouldn't have to get into a bidding war.

 

[c_husk]

Seems a lot of posters keep stating they want an established P5 coach if a change is made. I get that but I'd like to get a feel for what people consider an established coach. I'm assuming people realize we aren't going out and poaching someone who is dominating their conference and making 3 million already. That being said, I looked up a few people. I'm not saying these are options just asking if you would consider them as established. I decided to start by only posting records because certain people will create an emotional response. For the record, I believe none of these guy have had a scandal and all are P5 only records.

67-27 won at least 9 games every year.
35-27 Won 10 games once and won only 3 once
48-32 Won 10 one time and won as few as 5 once.
49-28. Won 10 once and as few as 4 once
31-22. Won as many as 9 and won as few as 6 a couple of times.

I believe a Group of 5 coach who has reestablished or turned around a group of 5 Team would be a qualification for a new head coach. I don't necessarily think a new coach would have to come from a power 5 school. Many of today's successful power 5 coaches were poached from a Head Coach of a Group of 5 school.

 

[miketd1]

Excellent read on Chuck Martin's prospects as a head coach.

 

[tuffer76]

But in reality he could be the exact type of guy we need. he's proven he can win and win big and he's innovative enough to maybe get us to the next level. He's also as you said probably a year or two away from being considered ready. as a result, wouldn't have to get into a bidding war.

I don't disagree. But I feel like there are candidates who would be further along the curve that would be both available and affordable. I feel like Martin would be on the lower half of my short list if I had to hire someone now - too many unknowns (though I love how tight they played Cincy this weekend). He's probably my 4th choice out of current MAC coaches (could probably talk myself into 3rd).

 

[vkj91]

Ok. Here are the names
Bo Pelini 67-27
Charlie Weiss 35-27
Dan Mullen 48-32
Schiano 2006 and forward 49-28
Al golden 31-22

 

[RU31trap]

There are some decent coaches out there that need a second chance. Coaches who have won NC as offense Cordinator's and have won BCS bowl games. Listen, the core issues related to Rutgers will not go away regardless of which coach you hire. He will face an institution whose faculty prays that we play a patriot league schedule. He will face an unfriendly media and frankly a fanbase that's literally split down the middle with respects to big time football. Now, imagine you're a good coach who truly won at a high level looking for a job, would you come here under those conditions? When Urban Meyer went to OSU he made it very clear that his objective was to win a NC and the moment someone disagreed with a hire or recruit he would be looking for his next gig. Here it's the complete opposite the rules and conditions are set forth by the administration via faculty and honestly under those conditions it's going to be difficult to recruit a good coach.

 

[Wutevah]

vk, do you think we could get Tom Hermann still with his buyout being 2.25 mill?

 

[rutgersguy1]

Ok. Here are the names
Bo Pelini 67-27
Charlie Weiss 35-27
Dan Mullen 48-32
Schiano 2006 and forward 49-28
Al golden 31-22

And that is why I said in my post above you can't go on records alone and have to delve into conference records and other circumstances to see if it's a good candidate or not. But as far as the term "established" I'd say all of them are but "established" to me doesn't necessarily equate to good candidate.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

ok, how about this....

Give us a HC who has proven that he can defeat P5 teams, even if he doesn't coach at a power 5 school.
Also, his teams should not get embarrassed when playing elite teams, they don't have to beat them but just not get blown out. I don't think this is too hard to ask. A few names should start popping up in people's minds as they read this.

Find me that person and that HC will be leaps and bounds better than Flood.

 

[lighty]

I know Bo Pelini has a little bagggage (media problems, fan problems) but I would take him in a heartbeat. My three choices would be Bo, Scott Frost, and Schiano.

My question to folks is: do you believe a good coach like Pelini can simply enter an area and recruit well? Or does Rutgers really need someone that has recruited well in the Northeast?

 

[vkj91]

And that is why I said in my post above you can't go on records alone and have to delve into conference records and other circumstances to see if it's a good candidate or not. But as far as the term "established" I'd say all of them are but "established" to me doesn't necessarily equate to good candidate.

but people here are always harping on records. None of those guys have been involved in scandal so if winning is what matters who cares. In reality, Golden's record is good for a young P5 coach but people here don't like him so he would be scoffed at.

 

[RUinPAC10land]

Hey, I got slammed by the Flood/ Barchi/ Herman apologists in another thread (was even called a troll), but I just don't see a change for the next 2 years. Flood will be the coach next year. Hayden Rettig is going to transfer and Rutgers will continue to miss on the top NJ recruits. It disgusts me because I want to see better, but what can we do?

 

[vkj91]

Fr

I know Bo Pelini has a little bagggage (media problems, fan problems) but I would take him in a heartbeat. My three choices would be Bo, Scott Frost, and Schiano.

My question to folks is: do you believe a good coach like Pelini can simply enter an area and recruit well? Or does Rutgers really need someone that has recruited well in the Northeast?

Frost needs to show he can duplicate his results without a Heisman QB.
As for Pelini, not sure but I don't believe his recruiting classes were great so he was obviously coaching them up. However, did kids choose him or the allure of Nebraska.

 

[rutgersguy1]

I know Bo Pelini has a little bagggage (media problems, fan problems) but I would take him in a heartbeat. My three choices would be Bo, Scott Frost, and Schiano.

My question to folks is: do you believe a good coach like Pelini can simply enter an area and recruit well? Or does Rutgers really need someone that has recruited well in the Northeast?

I don't put as much emphasis on the HC being local as other do but if that's the case I do think it's important to have an especially local flavor on the staff with hopefully some "expert" local recruiters.

 

[vkj91]

vk, do you think we could get Tom Hermann still with his buyout being 2.25 mill?

that's up to the AD and her money people.

 

[rutgersguy1]

but people here are always harping on records. None of those guys have been involved in scandal so if winning is what matters who cares. In reality, Golden's record is good for a young P5 coach but people here don't like him so he would be scoffed at.

Golden has been flavor of the month here before at Temple but I've never cared for him then or now. I see him as an average coach nothing special. He's doing about what Shannon was when he got fired. Plus I don't know that all of them would win in our current circumstances in the tougher half of the B10. Mullen and to a lesser degree Pelini would be the only ones I like. Mullen isn't available and Pelini is a possible powder keg.

 

[vkj91]

Hey, I got slammed by the Flood/ Barchi/ Herman apologists in another thread (was even called a troll), but I just don't see a change for the next 2 years. Flood will be the coach next year. Hayden Rettig is going to transfer and Rutgers will continue to miss on the top NJ recruits. It disgusts me because I want to see better, but what can we do?

You got called a troll because your posts were very troll like. We have no idea is Flood will be back and Rettig is't transferring. He's not gonna give up another year and only have one to play.

 

[vkj91]

Golden has been flavor of the month here before at Temple but I've never cared for him then or now. I see him as an average coach nothing special. He's doing about what Shannon was when he got fired. Plus I don't know that all of them would win in our current circumstances in the tougher half of the B10. Mullen and to a lesser degree Pelini would be the only ones I like. Mullen isn't available and Pelini is a possible powder keg.

PRoblem with Mullen is he stacks his team with JUCO's we could never admit.

 

[rutgersguy1]

PRoblem with Mullen is he stacks his team with JUCO's we could never admit.

I didn't know that but if that's the case is it out of necessity like KSU. Would he have to do it in a better recruiting ground that we have locally in NJ/PA/MD supplemented by FL. Maybe he wouldn't need to take so many. He's not available anyway after last year so it's all moot.

 

[vkj91]

I didn't know that but if that's the case is it out of necessity like KSU. Would he have to do it in a better recruiting ground that we have locally in NJ/PA/MD supplemented by FL. Maybe he wouldn't need to take so many. He's not available anyway after last year so it's all moot.

Think he had something like 18 JUCO's on is 10 win team last year.

 

[rutgersguy1]

Think he had something like 18 JUCO's on is 10 win team last year.

Well they're in a territory where they're not even first in their home state and there are so many bigger brands in the SEC that comb over their recruiting area so it may necessary for him down there.

Up here it may not be the best recruiting ground in the country and name programs do come to this area too but I think there's still enough for us as compared to what might be left for Miss. St. So I don't know that he'd have to do the same thing here. Again though all moot, he's not going anywhere.

 

[MikeR0102]

Ok. Here are the names
Bo Pelini 67-27
Charlie Weiss 35-27
Dan Mullen 48-32
Schiano 2006 and forward 49-28
Al golden 31-22

I think you are forgetting a big part of Weis' coaching. His last 3 years at ND and his 2 plus years at Kansas he is 22-43.

I was really high on Mullen 2 years ago but Rutgers isn't going to spend enough to get him here.

I don't want a retread coach. There are guys who had good runs like Jeff Redford at Cal, but I wouldn't take a chance on him.

 

[Pritz99]

Good recruiters recruit regardless where he grew up. I haven't looked it up, but I bet the HCs from the top 25 programs by and large are not "home town boys" with local ties, blah blah blah.

If he has the gravitas, HS coaches will listen to him. recruits will listen to him. Good recruiters close the deal because they are convincing they can take the kid (and his parents) where he wants to go. It wouldn't surprise me if the asst coaches lacked local ties.

You people close to the program, who often talk to the players: ask them what made them choose Rutgers. Ask them how the doors were opened. Ask them if it was because the coach was a Jersey guy.

It may help a little, from time to time, but I don't think it's anywhere near important enough to hold a high regard for on the checklist.

 

[vkj91]

I think you are forgetting a big part of Weis' coaching. His last 3 years at ND and his 2 plus years at Kansas he is 22-43.

I was really high on Mullen 2 years ago but Rutgers isn't going to spend enough to get him here.

I don't want a retread coach. There are guys who had good runs like Jeff Redford at Cal, but I wouldn't take a chance on him.

I didn't forget Weiss' last two years but it isn't fair to exclude Schiano's first years but penalize Weiss for Kansas.

 

[miketd1]

vkj: I think it's fair. Coaching is a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately business.

 

[tuffer76]

I think it's fair - especially when he got paid what he did and the amount of bs he spoke about his abilities as a head coach. He's accountable for what he did with/to that program.

 

[MikeR0102]

I didn't forget Weiss' last two years but it isn't fair to exclude Schiano's first years but penalize Weiss for Kansas.

We will have to agree to disagree. Weis took the Kansas job and left it in even worse shape then when he arrived as opposed to Schiano. I'm fine with discarding Schiano's first 2 seasons but I still evaluate him on 2003 and forward. 65-47 isn't awful.

 

[vkj91]

We will have to agree to disagree. Weis took the Kansas job and left it in even worse shape then when he arrived as opposed to Schiano. I'm fine with discarding Schiano's first 2 seasons but I still evaluate him on 2003 and forward. 65-47 isn't awful.

I'm not defending Weiss but he took a horrible team and made it worse because he gambled and took a bunch of questionable JUCO's

 

[StyleKnight]

Bo Pellini is looking awfully sexy.