Mag plays with such reckless abandon, I kind of want him to start over Paul. They need that energy at the start of the game.
GAME 10 Seton Hall: Part of the process
- Thread starter bac2therac
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This is it 100%
We got Agee (he's awful) we got Hyatt (he's okay) and they got guys who can score 15 pts any night
In year 2 GS saw his need was big men, just like Pikes, and he loaded up on quality bigs and then used that to go get his elite quarterback with the promise that he'd be well protected. Now that's a coach with a strategy in recruiting vs looking for hard working, under recruited guys. Both coaches are selling recruits on Rutgers and playing in the big. Big big difference in attracting talent to RU between these two.
Seems like Willard is the Mel Tucker of Big East basketball lol
Good summary but you're more optimistic than I would be. First, hats off to SHU. They are very good , physical with a playground toughness. I can see how they lost to OSI by only 3 . I think they'll finish the year ranked between 10-!5th. Where i primarily differ with your analysis is Jaden Jones. He's shown me very little other than having a bad attitude and a seeming indifference to winning. Very little intensity, passion or caring other than getting his playing time and points.. Very disappointing as I frankly expected to see much more at the start of the season.
I think Pike is okay and can get it done moving forward. (Prob not this year)
We play what 32 regular season games? His recipe is going to be 9-3/10-2 out of conference and 10-10 in conference to get us to 19-20 wins.
If we win a B10 tourney game then we likely make it in. If not we we sweat the bubble. Games like UMass and Lafayette can't happen.
To get to that consistently he will need to be more ruthless. Tell kids like Reiberd and Palms to walk if they aren't cutting and bring in a real player off the portal.
We can be a consistently good team if Pike takes the correct approach
We play what 32 regular season games? His recipe is going to be 9-3/10-2 out of conference and 10-10 in conference to get us to 19-20 wins.
If we win a B10 tourney game then we likely make it in. If not we we sweat the bubble. Games like UMass and Lafayette can't happen.
To get to that consistently he will need to be more ruthless. Tell kids like Reiberd and Palms to walk if they aren't cutting and bring in a real player off the portal.
We can be a consistently good team if Pike takes the correct approach
While SHU earned this one.. great shooting in 2nd half..
What happened to the team offense we saw vs Purdue?
Is adding Geo the difference? Do the players think he is some Superman and they don't have to work and share the ball on offense if he is out there?
I saw one play where Geo looked like Mulcahy out there.. that is.. he has the ball at the top of the key and looks for some cutters.. some motion.. and there was none.
This team is impossible to understand. I just don't get it.
And someone get to work on Big Cliff...
1) he needs to stop dribbling.. AT ALL (again, that's the lack of motion.. people making themselves available for a pass)
2) he needs to stop reaching, stop running at guys on defense.. use his feet and think positionally. How about forcing him to practice with his elbows strapped tight to his chest.. make him use his legs and body position.. not his reach and hands.
Lastly.. seeing Bo Boroski was enough to chalk it up as a loss. Some insane calls in that game. When will they ever call travels again? At least 6 points and a few fouls came after blatantly obvious travels. Not why we lost.. just saying.. tired of being on the short end of calls from these guys.
What happened to the team offense we saw vs Purdue?
Is adding Geo the difference? Do the players think he is some Superman and they don't have to work and share the ball on offense if he is out there?
I saw one play where Geo looked like Mulcahy out there.. that is.. he has the ball at the top of the key and looks for some cutters.. some motion.. and there was none.
This team is impossible to understand. I just don't get it.
And someone get to work on Big Cliff...
1) he needs to stop dribbling.. AT ALL (again, that's the lack of motion.. people making themselves available for a pass)
2) he needs to stop reaching, stop running at guys on defense.. use his feet and think positionally. How about forcing him to practice with his elbows strapped tight to his chest.. make him use his legs and body position.. not his reach and hands.
Lastly.. seeing Bo Boroski was enough to chalk it up as a loss. Some insane calls in that game. When will they ever call travels again? At least 6 points and a few fouls came after blatantly obvious travels. Not why we lost.. just saying.. tired of being on the short end of calls from these guys.
that does put a ceiling on what he can do here, are we willing to accept that, it might be the best we can do. Remember Penn State was top 25 a couple years back, NW made the tourney, the slide back to irrelevancy isnt that fun
Teams are not going to guard Miller, no threat to score what so ever.
Think you may be right if these guys can’t get on the same page. Turnovers are killing us and many of them are just miscommunications - Ron with the baseline pass miss you Caleb. Calebs muffed handoff to Agee for what should have been an easy dunk and a foul that would have fired them up - last year Miles would have clobbered and silenced the crowd.
Harper made shots and then he took over in the 2nd half. Having a guy go off for 30 will make your offense look good, He had nothing in his arsenal tonight. I thought this team panicked a bit because they never could get over the hump and make a stop on defense, the defense to me wasnt good enough to win tonight
Exactly, the announcer said that he ask Willard if this was a rebuild year for Seton Hall, Willard said we dont rebuild, we reload. Pike does not reload.
Maybe not best, but the backbone was Myles for sure. As his ability to stay out of trouble foul went, we went.
If you cannot tell the difference between the type of offense we ran vs Purdue and today's offense and think it is just one guy getting hot... I think you need to stop doing these analysis posts. (that was a bit too strong) We barely passed the ball in any meaningful way in this game.
This team is screaming for a player that can provide offense from the bench. JY sorely missed
When guys make shots it helps cover things up. Harper reighed 3s in the first half. He took over down the stretch.
Go back to that game and you will find we struggled for about 10 minutes where you wondered where the offense would come from. Caleb made jumpers. He didnt take them in the 2nd with Geo in. I explained to you seemed like they panicked a bit and fell into bad habits. When Ron goes 3-12 yes its going to look bad
The thread here is really awful, loaded with bad information and a strange lack of understanding what the word "matchup" means....matchup does not necessarily mean one team is drastically worse than another one or is not going to have a successful season.....
Some teams play a certain style of football or basketball and depending on who or how your opponent plays, dictates the tempo of the game or the result. This is not an indication of anything with RU, SHU is just built to play a 1 on 1 style of basketball that if you don't have great individual defenders, you will struggle.
I watched Nova vs Baylor earlier today and I don't care how many times you play a Top 10 Baylor roster, vs a Top 10 Nova roster, Baylor plays a style of defense, has a different level of athletic ability and is as well coached as anyone in the country on the defensive end.....
Villanova is a catch and shoot, slower methodical team, that counts on your opponent not having elite athletes and counts on your defensive lapses, to give up open shots. Baylor is well drilled and does not surrender any points, gives up very few offensive rebounds and smothered Nova....you can play that matchup 10 times and Baylor eats up Nova 10 times out of 10.
In RU, for football, Michigan actually won the B1G this year, by finally defeating Ohio State.....but how did RU fare vs the team that won the B1G and the team that finished 2nd in Ohio State??
Style and "how you matchup" dictates your results....RU and Michigan are more conservative styles and doesn't have dominant speed all over the field like Ohio State.
I could argue that RU will beat Michigan before ever or never ever beating Ohio State in football.....Ohio State plays a style that Schiano has literally no system, lacks the athletes at linebacker and in the secondary, to match up with 4WRs and explosive players....but is more than fine playing football "in the box", vs a Harbaugh team that likes to run, play action pass and play more conservative football.
In RU vs This years version if SHU, the matchup favors SHU....more athletes and at home, they're going to make tougher shots that they would not take or make on the road....doesn't mean SHU is 14 points better 10 out of 10 times, but if you have slower players who need to play half court (Mulcahy, Caleb are not speed players), you are going to struggle in this matchup....Add in Harper and the others on the roster for RU....it's not built for a speedy Illinois or a quicker, more mature athlete like SHU has this year.
If I rewind to 2019, SHU was significantly less athletic at the RAC, was not really versatile.....and relied solely on Myles Powell.....and when he was off his game, we saw the bloodbath of a result....add in the RAC and you could play that game 10 out of 10 times at the RAC, SHU is not winning that game in our building, with that roster in 2019......and factually, RU was significantly better than SHU last year, but that matchup and lack of a game, should not be lost in the larger picture....if RU played as it should have last year at SHU, I have RU winning that game and the series looks or feels a little different.
If this game was at the RAC and the SHU tough shots made are made consistently, then SHU will be a tough out.....I'm not sure just yet....I think it's more a lack of footspeed on this year's RU roster and just not the best matchup for this year's SHU team.
As we move into B1G play, are there teams as athletic and old as SHU.....?? Sure, we saw one in Illinois and will see others like that....
But there are more teams built like RU in the B1G and that's why I am not sure where RU is.....but I am not throwing in the towel, just because one matchup isn't ideal, especially off a huge win and you are on the road, with pieces not 100% and not healthy.
RU can clearly improve and needs to find roles for Jaden Jones and somehow either has to find success when Mulcahy has an even matchup, against opponents that are not solely 1 on 1 players like SHU.
Time for RU fans to see what we can do, by expanding the role for Jones, Hyatt.....we have something we can work with as a glue guy with Mag....there are pieces to work with.......
Probably best to see where RU improves in the next 2 weeks or so.....not sure I would throw in the towel just yet......Lot of basketball still to be played, sorted out.
Some teams play a certain style of football or basketball and depending on who or how your opponent plays, dictates the tempo of the game or the result. This is not an indication of anything with RU, SHU is just built to play a 1 on 1 style of basketball that if you don't have great individual defenders, you will struggle.
I watched Nova vs Baylor earlier today and I don't care how many times you play a Top 10 Baylor roster, vs a Top 10 Nova roster, Baylor plays a style of defense, has a different level of athletic ability and is as well coached as anyone in the country on the defensive end.....
Villanova is a catch and shoot, slower methodical team, that counts on your opponent not having elite athletes and counts on your defensive lapses, to give up open shots. Baylor is well drilled and does not surrender any points, gives up very few offensive rebounds and smothered Nova....you can play that matchup 10 times and Baylor eats up Nova 10 times out of 10.
In RU, for football, Michigan actually won the B1G this year, by finally defeating Ohio State.....but how did RU fare vs the team that won the B1G and the team that finished 2nd in Ohio State??
Style and "how you matchup" dictates your results....RU and Michigan are more conservative styles and doesn't have dominant speed all over the field like Ohio State.
I could argue that RU will beat Michigan before ever or never ever beating Ohio State in football.....Ohio State plays a style that Schiano has literally no system, lacks the athletes at linebacker and in the secondary, to match up with 4WRs and explosive players....but is more than fine playing football "in the box", vs a Harbaugh team that likes to run, play action pass and play more conservative football.
In RU vs This years version if SHU, the matchup favors SHU....more athletes and at home, they're going to make tougher shots that they would not take or make on the road....doesn't mean SHU is 14 points better 10 out of 10 times, but if you have slower players who need to play half court (Mulcahy, Caleb are not speed players), you are going to struggle in this matchup....Add in Harper and the others on the roster for RU....it's not built for a speedy Illinois or a quicker, more mature athlete like SHU has this year.
If I rewind to 2019, SHU was significantly less athletic at the RAC, was not really versatile.....and relied solely on Myles Powell.....and when he was off his game, we saw the bloodbath of a result....add in the RAC and you could play that game 10 out of 10 times at the RAC, SHU is not winning that game in our building, with that roster in 2019......and factually, RU was significantly better than SHU last year, but that matchup and lack of a game, should not be lost in the larger picture....if RU played as it should have last year at SHU, I have RU winning that game and the series looks or feels a little different.
If this game was at the RAC and the SHU tough shots made are made consistently, then SHU will be a tough out.....I'm not sure just yet....I think it's more a lack of footspeed on this year's RU roster and just not the best matchup for this year's SHU team.
As we move into B1G play, are there teams as athletic and old as SHU.....?? Sure, we saw one in Illinois and will see others like that....
But there are more teams built like RU in the B1G and that's why I am not sure where RU is.....but I am not throwing in the towel, just because one matchup isn't ideal, especially off a huge win and you are on the road, with pieces not 100% and not healthy.
RU can clearly improve and needs to find roles for Jaden Jones and somehow either has to find success when Mulcahy has an even matchup, against opponents that are not solely 1 on 1 players like SHU.
Time for RU fans to see what we can do, by expanding the role for Jones, Hyatt.....we have something we can work with as a glue guy with Mag....there are pieces to work with.......
Probably best to see where RU improves in the next 2 weeks or so.....not sure I would throw in the towel just yet......Lot of basketball still to be played, sorted out.
yes.. bad habits... I would have thought after Purdue.. they would try to exhibit the GOOD HABITS seen through much of that game. The coach has to find a way to recognize that is happening and then put a stop to it.
also in fairness, Geo hasnt been practicing with the team so stuff the rest of the team has worked on without him might have been disrupted tonight
I am not ready to anoint Seton Hall just yet. We clearly did not play well, 10 first half turnovers, couldn’t catch a rebound on both ends , Paul pulled a total no show , Geo was rusty and winded, Ron was not aggressive early , had no rebounds for almost the whole game , did not shoot well , nor did Geo mostly because of layoff, got almost nothing from Agee, not even a rebound , weathered the 14-0 run in the first half which started when Geo threw the ill advised alley oop to Mag when we were tied , and with 10 minutes left and 8 minutes left and 4-5 minutes left we were only down 6. If we grabbed half of the defensive rebounds that led to second chance points in the first half and most of the game , we probably have a lead down the stretch.
Now I give Rhoden and Aiken credit for hitting some tough shots in the second half but we just were not right tonight.
The lack of crisp passing and screens was missing and the return of endless dribbling by Paul early and Then Geo and even Caleb one time was totally unnecessary. How Caleb had to get almost every rebound and Cliff and Ron did not rebound in this game was one of the main reasons we lost despite what Rhoden and Aiken did in the second half. We must have lost 4-5 rebounds out of bounds off our silly puddy hands after they missed shots. Gave them extra possessions that they converted or we fouled them. Clearly , the intensity was missing , but understandable as it is hard to duplicate the superb effort against #1 Purdue with the RAC helping , and there was just a little lackadaisical vibe tonight. Even the last 3 minutes down 10 no trapping and letting them run clock and then Ron walking the ball upcourt with no sense of urgency, very strange.
Caleb was superb for almost the entire night with the exception of the time he lost the ball and committed those 2 fouls but he was the main scorer , the only rebounder , the main defender and the only guy hustling most of the night. That is a real positive. We need a consistent Ron, do not expect 30 but 15 points and 7-10 rebounds should not be much to ask for the best player . Geo needs to get in shape and get his legs especially for defense, and Cliff and Mag will continue to get better and will be in January and February and March than they are now. Those 5 playing intense defense, rebounding , and quick passing without unnecessary dribbling with screens and pin downs should compete the rest of the year. Whatever we get from Paul , Aundre, Jaden , Jalen and Ralph is gravy and maybe one of them will give you a 10 point game once in a while. Paul has been incredibly disappointing and he better start shooting again because his failure to shoot and being hesitant to shoot hurts us in so many ways. He should not play point except rarely due to foul trouble as he stops the entire offense.
Now I give Rhoden and Aiken credit for hitting some tough shots in the second half but we just were not right tonight.
The lack of crisp passing and screens was missing and the return of endless dribbling by Paul early and Then Geo and even Caleb one time was totally unnecessary. How Caleb had to get almost every rebound and Cliff and Ron did not rebound in this game was one of the main reasons we lost despite what Rhoden and Aiken did in the second half. We must have lost 4-5 rebounds out of bounds off our silly puddy hands after they missed shots. Gave them extra possessions that they converted or we fouled them. Clearly , the intensity was missing , but understandable as it is hard to duplicate the superb effort against #1 Purdue with the RAC helping , and there was just a little lackadaisical vibe tonight. Even the last 3 minutes down 10 no trapping and letting them run clock and then Ron walking the ball upcourt with no sense of urgency, very strange.
Caleb was superb for almost the entire night with the exception of the time he lost the ball and committed those 2 fouls but he was the main scorer , the only rebounder , the main defender and the only guy hustling most of the night. That is a real positive. We need a consistent Ron, do not expect 30 but 15 points and 7-10 rebounds should not be much to ask for the best player . Geo needs to get in shape and get his legs especially for defense, and Cliff and Mag will continue to get better and will be in January and February and March than they are now. Those 5 playing intense defense, rebounding , and quick passing without unnecessary dribbling with screens and pin downs should compete the rest of the year. Whatever we get from Paul , Aundre, Jaden , Jalen and Ralph is gravy and maybe one of them will give you a 10 point game once in a while. Paul has been incredibly disappointing and he better start shooting again because his failure to shoot and being hesitant to shoot hurts us in so many ways. He should not play point except rarely due to foul trouble as he stops the entire offense.
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Have you considered not being a penis?
We beat the #1 team in the country without Hyatt and Jones. Why do we need to play them?
We win because of defense. If Baker and Harper are getting minutes we can’t play 2 more guys that aren’t defensive players.
Hyatt and Jones need to improve a lot or they need to be out of the rotation. Evaluate these players based on what they have done and not your preconceived thought of what they are. Watch Hyatt on defense off the ball. Forget about on the ball.
We win because of defense. If Baker and Harper are getting minutes we can’t play 2 more guys that aren’t defensive players.
Hyatt and Jones need to improve a lot or they need to be out of the rotation. Evaluate these players based on what they have done and not your preconceived thought of what they are. Watch Hyatt on defense off the ball. Forget about on the ball.
How is Willard getting quality portal players while Pike is getting stiffs ?
Richmond and Yetna are very good
Aiken has mostly struggled to adapt but he had a coming out party tonight
Until we roster up with more talented scorers, our recipe for victories against good teams will generally have three ingredients: defense, rebounding and home games.
Good recap. I didn’t expect much out of Geo tonight because he hasn’t played or practiced in almost 2 weeks. He was actually better than I expected. Ron is more frustrating. He has a world of talent but has trouble stringing back-to-back games together. He shot 3-12 tonight with only 2 rebounds — very disappointing!
What are your ranting on about? IDK about Young, but Myles Johnson went back home to earn a graduate degree from an academically superior university and a better basketball team. Doubt there is a coach who would have convinced him to do otherwise.
Look, I don’t think any of our fans are saying it’s acceptable. We are aware what Pikes recruiting has done to this team and in the long run. Now it’s about him showing us if he can turn the recruiting around. Whether It will be in picking up some top players in the portal or just going out and selling good players that this is their destination. But you can’t just put him in the hot seat now because he’s also done many positive things for this program that many fans forget about because everyone focuses on negatives. Yes this is a rebound year but now can he make recruiting plays? That will determine if he stays or not.
Your assessment of what you watched is not good, accurate or anything close to what dictates a matchup....
The assessment or comments about panicking on offense, trying to figure out where you get points from etc.
It's a very long season......just keep that in mind.
ok will Harper score 30
if Hyatt and Jones are not even good enough to make a barely 6 man rotation then what does that say about Pikiell
At one point Cliff tried to throw the ball off a Seton Hall player along the sideline before going out of bounds. The ref making the call made a motion saying the ball hit off of a players leg and then paused for a laughable amount of time before finally dramatically signaling Seton Hall ball.
I thought to myself “Wow, that was a dick head way to make that call.” Then realized it was Bo Boroski and the whole thing immediately made a ton of sense.
wait so its just a matchup now...the matchup is we dont have as much talent as SHU, the game was winnable tonight but we again we have to thread the needle to be ranked schools since the dearth of offense ability is so low. You talk about Hyatt and Jones who even though i want them to play more have shown very little in their time here. Does this team panic on offense and launch shots...absolutely
Matchups do not cause players to lose the ball off their finger tips in good rebounding positioning several times tonight. We just are not good enough as compromised and developed right now. SHU shot the ball pretty poorly from 3. When we get in league play thats not going to happen.
Not sure what you are arguing. Seton Hall is better than Rutgers. Seton Hall will compete for the BE championship, they may not win it but they are likely top 3 as well as top 25. You cannot make that argument for RU in the Big 10
It is this type of comment that is part of being completely unaware of basketball or matchups....
Purdue struggled today vs NC state at the Barclay Center.....and NC states best player, Manny Bates, is out for the year....
What does #1 have to do with much, if the matchup with #1 is more favorable than a matchup with a completely different of play....?? Seton Hall could be #1 or could be #21.
Hyatt and Jones are legitimate ba ll players....why do "they need to be out of the rotation "....?? Do you watch the games....?? What exactly does Paul Mulcahy actually do, that Jaden Jones can't do....??
Let's not make this a situation of where I am ripping a player but be realistic about what you are watching...
Does Mulcahy play good defense, on the ball.....??
Does Mulcahy create his own offense off the dribble....??
Does Mulcahy have or shown any ability to expand his game on the ball, when he has the ball.....does he jump-stop....does he use his 6'6" height to draw contact......does he square and shoot over the smaller defenders....?? Can he actually square himself and shoot the ball, within the flow of the offense??.....
If I give Jaden Jones 16 to 20 minutes and Jaden Jones "needs to improve defensively".....he has essentially played less than 10 games in his RU career.....Mulcahy is in YEAR 3, of the system....
We have a game where you have something called "Plus -Minus"......it is not a sole determination of all things for basketball but if Mulcahy doesn't shoot, doesn't score, doesn't rebound, and is a minus defender, isn't there a better solution somewhere??
We played Jalen Miller to try and find stops on defense at guard, because of the matchup being bad.....but when is there an actual good matchup, if you are asking Mulcahy to defend quicker guards....At least if I have Jones on the floor, I have the threat of a jump shot, I get the same length on defense and even if Jones isn't dialed in on defense, he is not scoring zero points.
The other "factor", is Aundre Hyatt is at least strong enough to grab an occasional rebound IF you play him more than the occasional 15 to 16 minutes....does Agee grab any rebounds.....does he create space in traffic?? Can Hyatt at least get a shot up going towards the basket, which is at least a positive towards scoring.
This is a basic math item.....if you are playing 4 on 5 on offense with Mulcahy AND you are playing 4 on 5 on defense, because Mulcahy doesn't score, how much more do the other 4 players have to do??
You're not getting points on one end of the court and not getting stops from Mulcahy, who can't keep his man in front of him or out of the paint....how does that make sense to play him instead of Jones, does not make sense.....
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