GAME 25 MINNESOTA: Back to the drawing board

[NewJerseyHawk]

Sometimes the fanbase here just isn't realistic. Sometimes who you play or the matchups aren't going to work out.

The thread is littered with things that aren't sustainable.....playing elite defense for 5, 6, 7 games in a row?? And as soon as that defense drops off OR is runs into a team that can handle pressure or make plays, then RU fans run for cover or start complaining about not having intensity that is on a scale of 9.9 out of 10.

The recap isn't really a recap, it's about matchups. And this year's Minnesota team, looks and appears to be closer to what Iowa looks like against RU....Iowa seemingly has unlimited confidence against RU, because it's entire system is tailor made for pressure....it's tailor made to beat double teams....it's designed to find players who can playmake...make passes....make you pay for being aggressive and double team and the ball always moves faster than elite defense.

Instead of saying the season is over or crying.....it comes down to not having enough playmakers on offense from the RU perspective, from 1 through the 5 position. Some played well in spots, like Davis. Simpson and obviously Cliff.....others are simply 100% reliant for others to set them up to score.....Hyatt, Mag, Palmquist or even Wolf needs the perfect pass and a defensive breakdown, in order to score.

The bottom line is, RU eventually needs legitimate threats, from 1 to 5, so if you play an Iowa, a Minnesota type of roster who can score, keeping teams in the 60s, isn't reality 10 out of 10 games.

RU has a legitimate problem that extends beyond what happens the rest of this season. The remaining 6 matchups are ALL winnable.....yes Purdue is a better matchup for RU than Iowa or this year's Minnesota team. I feel more confident playing Purdue with Cliff and Ogbole than I do asking Mag, Hyatt, Palmquist Wolf to be elite on defense 10 out of 10 games against an Iowa type of attack. That also extends down to a Chol or Austin Williams and perhaps Noah Fernandes.....but I think Noah is better suited in an up tempo setting vs asking him to play elite defense in a half court slugfest......the bigger picture extends beyond whether RU goes 3-3 the rest of the year or 4-2, 5-1 or even a miracle run of 6-0.....

The larger question is this year OR next year.....what is the gameplan, when the matchup isn't in the 60s......????...what happens when you see an up tempo team, who has guards that handle pressure??? What's RUs game plan to win a game in the 70s or low 80s, if the defense isn't 10 out of 10 for 35 games??

If JWill doesn't play lights out and give you 14PTS, is RU going to just lose?? What happens if Cliff has a great 1st half and perhaps gets in foul trouble and doesn't have another 12 PTS and 3 blocks in a 2nd half?? What's the plan NEXT year, if the defense isn't 2nd, or 3rd in all of CBB......will heads explode?? What's the game plan to find more playmaking, more scoring, more 3s??

There has to be someone next year that helps Dylan Harper and Ace Bailey in the scoring department....OR, will RU simply just lose any game, that Dylan and Ace don't shoot well??

Today's game needed someone to bail out JWill....he didn't score like the 1st 4 games, but are the wings the rest of this year (Hyatt, Mag, Palmquist or Griffiths) good enough to pick up the slack?? Right now, all 4, just don't have enough offense or can't create their own offense enough, to make up the difference IF Cliff cools off, if JWill cools off.

Set the remaining 6 games to the side.....I have always adamant that THIS year is about figuring out what's actually reliable enough to help win NEXT year. If you steal a bid to the NCAAs along the way, great. It would have been in reach if perhaps JWill just missed 15 or 16 games and not 20......

But.....as of today, I have THREE players, that if I throw the ball to next year, can go get a bucket, go make a play.....make a shot from 2 or 3.....and 2 of the 3, are still in high school right now. My comfort level is 100% there with JWill.....who else joins him??

If Mag is one of the 5 in the starting lineup next year....that is 100% OK with me.....because he's going to be the 4th or 5th option and MUST score and make teams pay for shutting down JWill, or if Dylan or Ace are swarmed. He has to be able to knock down shots.....take 4 to 5 3s, take available 2s, which will be available, 1 on 1.......

Is Gavin Griffiths going to step up....I "could" assume Cliff is a piece to that puzzle, but I also have to prepare that may not happen too. Is Lathan Sommerville that scoring threat?? The tape says 1000% YES, but that's offense.....what will that look like on defense?? Not really that concerned about that.

The bottom line is the rest of this year and next year, someone has to help score and create offense if JWill is off, or taken away for stretches of games.

Fans may cringe....is it Derek Simpson....is it JMike Davis?? Part of THIS year was always a ramp up for next year, so there's something to go to off the bench. I think Simpson and Davis, despite others hyperfocused on shooting percentages, you have to love their defense and as a 3rd and 4th guard next year, they're right on schedule (to me).

Right now, the missing piece of the puzzle, is Mag or a better player via the portal, who I absolutely know will score and rebound.....Mag absolutely has to score for this team to be successful.....he has to reach 10, 12, 14 or more points when JWill doesn't OR the game is in the mid to high 70s next year. I don't see a path for winning many games the rest of this year without 3s and shooting and scoring from Hyatt and Mag.......and next year, I have to assume Ace will score enough.....whomever is paired with him has to deliver.

The days of asking every game or opponent to be played in the low to mid 60s, isn't feasible.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

Well this will be a short recap. I imagine we are all deflated tonight. NCAA hopes on life support. Not totally out but it does not look good. Rutgers now would need to win 5 of its next 6 to be in play. Not good all around tonight. Not ready for the moment. Elite defense did not travel. I do not have the answers to what went wrong. Mentally we were not locked in and that is disappointing It seemed like we were chasing all night. RU shot well early but their game is not to match their opponent at shooting 50%. Playing at a pace in the 70s is simply not Rutgers game. There was brief moment where they looked like the Rutgers of the last 4 and managed for forge a 7 point slowing Minny down but that quickly disappeared. What was disappointing was how quickly the game got out of hand coming out of the lockerroom for the 2nd half. Minny took it to us and instead of the composed RU defense putting their head down and working, Rutgers panicked...and they would panic on offense. This game reminded me more of the Rutgers vs Princeton/Missisissppi State before J Will came. Very disjointed and disarray on offense. Minnesota not known for their defense exploited our mistakes and we compounded the issue by playing right into their hands and payed for it dearly burned in transition. Do not be fooled. Sure RU got close with a 11-0 run in 90 seconds but you cannot just decide to come to play with a few minutes left.The game was lost coming out after halftime. Minny was in this position with leads vs Iowa and Purdue and tonight they fought back despite the furious RU rally. You cant go down 17 points with 3:39 left and expect to survive.

Look Rutgers had a great 4 game run that got our hopes up. J Will was a huge boost. Now there is film on J Will. Minny played great D on. J Will isnt a miracle worker. Frustrating games will happen. He looks a bit banged up and that will bit makes a huge difference. Unfortunately not one of this teammates picked up the slack for him. Back to some selfish out of control takes, some pouty looks and Coach Pikiell gee whiz. Pike was thoroughly outcoached for the third straight time at Minnesota. Pike has trouble against these athletic teams with tons of shooters such as Iowa, Nebby (despite the rac win), and ND. His substituions were painful. Cliff was dominant in the paint in the first half but instead of going to him right away. We didnt. At key times when the game was close, he had Cliff out and extended play for Woofolk who may have played his worst game ever. Gavin again awful. Hyatt simply not rising to the occasion as a senior leader. Derek looking like a mess with his decision making for most of the game and then suddenly waking up but waay too late. Cliff was Cliff Great effort but he was getting beat on defense and then Pike had him on the bench in key moments. J Mike looked every bit a freshmen unlike earlier games. Mag a non factor. Noah mia. Austin Williams sighting where did that come from. He did bring good energy late so we could provide that roll going forward. It was collectively our worst game since Penn State and reminder that this team still has major challlenges. To go 9 minutes with just one fg isnt really surprising. Minnesota looked like the better team. Give them major credit. They really took it to Rutgers tonight. Big win for them tonight. Johnson got talent in and he has some younger players stepping up. They still are hanging on to slim NCAA hopes themselves

Can this team bounce back. Sure they can but the problem is the next game is Purdue, who is coming off a loss while Rutgers will clearly be down. Not expecting anything pretty at Mackey, so for me the focus is to bounce back at the RAC with those 2 home games vs Maryland and Michigan and then see where that puts them in the with those last 4 to go. I dont know if this team got caught looking ahead or thought they were better than they were or they were distracted by the NCAA tourney talk but have to put this one behind them and get back to work.

It looked to me like Mag was limping when he ran up and down the court. May have explained to some extent his performance

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

It looked to me like Mag was limping when he ran up and down the court. May have explained to some extent his performance

Remember J Williams turned an ankle too. Noah returning from injury. Both looked a step slow too. Having guys playing hurt and not close to 100% is going to be an issue with our style.

 

[Degaz-RU]

It looked to me like Mag was limping when he ran up and down the court. May have explained to some extent his performance

The fact that he didn’t start should give us some indication of how much Pike thought he could get out of Mag.

And I wonder if the relative lack of true full court pressure during most of the game was due to Pike knowing that he could only get maybe 20 minutes out of Mag (the tip of the full-court spear), and that Mag would be a bit limited even when on the court.

 

[ru66]

And do you trust our strength and conditioning coach can do that for him? I don’t, look at Simpson two years in and he still has the body of a high school sophomore.

Here comes the attacks-- now we're onto the strength and conditioning coach-- is the trainer going to be next since Mag and Noah were banged up.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Except part of the failure was the problem from the early part of year , the total lack of defensive rebounding except for Cliff . Hyatt, Wolf , Mag and Gavin do not even try to jump or get a rebound . That is not being exhausted from the NW game just bad fundamental basketball . This was something I thought we were done with but it came back to bite us in the ass .
The amount of missed layups where we were sped up , also was something I thought we were past or at least improved with , but it reared its ugly head. That had nothing to do with tired legs.
Maybe no in your face defense and that was absent and maybe part of your point , but if we just did the 2 other things we likely win the game. I am not attributing it to tired legs.

Respectfully…missing layups can be part about having less in the tank to explode

To me …I saw a team come out with a lot less energy out of the lockerroom …and that showed on both ends

Lot of people kill New Jersey Hawk….but he says one thing that’s really true. To be more than .500 and a bubble team, you have to be able to play and win different style of games and different matchups . Our Achilles heel is the Iowa and Minnesota types . It’s why we have issues with Illinois. For us to take the next step, it requires us to be able to win games that are not just rock fights at 63-60, we need to be able to win a 78-74 game on the road …or in a neutral site. To have that, we need more guys on the floor who can score mutiple ways without needing to be set up to score AND willing buy in to playing Pike’s defense. You can have a low post center like cliff , but you neee a couple of guys like Jwill who can break it down and force opponents to dedicate resources to defens and not have more to double team

This starts with better recruiting …and that’s already on the way.

But …until we get there, matchups matter a lot to us. Avoid Iowa, Minnesota . Illinois Types and our chance to win goes up . Especially on the road

 

[rufeelinit]

I dunno our first half had no defensive intensity, any little lead we had was pissed away. The last sequence with Derek is infuriating to me because it does not have to happen..if you are going to do that please dont have the entire team parked under the basket...throw the ball inside for a shot and time will run on rebound

no excuse for continually just running clock and throwing up a 3 on our last possesion

Tend to agree about the last possession. I believe there was a 5 second difference between the shot and game clock. Just run your offense. Minnesota is going to get a decent shot anyway with the time difference.

 

[G- RUnit]

Sorry BAC. This can not be more wrong:

“Derek looking like a mess with his decision making for most of the game and then suddenly waking up but waay too late”

Most games fans would be praising a player who had 19 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, and 1 steal and 4-4 from the line, caused his usual havoc on D and willed RU back in the game. A mess?

We get you want to hand over the keys to the car to JMike over Simpson but you can’t in good faith say Simpson was guilty of bad decision making when he played 32 minutes and had only ONE turnover!!! Most would say that’s intelligent play making. Looking like a mess is so not fair.

Play at end of first half was unfortunate but Simpson has hit big shots before with time running out, see Stonehill & Indiana. JWill was not having a good game.

Guessing play was to run clock out as long as possible and try to take lead for the half. Problem wasn’t decision making but ball taking an unusual bounce. Hope if a miss Cliff could get a rebound. Issue was execution and worse bounce than usual.

In any event, key was start to second half with several badly missed layups and a bad turnover(that was the bad decision making) which sparked Minnesota to a 11-2 run from which we never recovered.

Home teams winning at 73% of time at home. Flight from Indiana to Minnesota little easier than cross country flight from Newark to Minneapolis. NW was an emotional dog fight win.

 

[fluoxetine]

Sorry BAC. This can’t not be more wrong:

“Derek looking like a mess with his decision making for most of the game and then suddenly waking up but waay too late”

Most games fans would be praising a player who had 19 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, and 1 steal and 4-4 from the line, caused his usual havoc on D and willed RU back in the game. A mess?

We get you want to hand over the keys to the car to JMike over Simpson but you can’t in good faith say Simpson was guilty of bad decision making when he played 32 minutes and had only ONE turnover!!! Most would say that’s intelligent. Looking like a mess is so not fair.

Play at end of first half was unfortunate but Simpson has hit big shots before with time running out, see Stonehill & Indiana. JWill was not having a good game.

Guessing play was to run clock out as long as possible and try to take lead for the half. Problem wasn’t decision making but ball taking an unusual bounce.

Home teams winning at 73% of time at home. Flight from Indiana to Minnesota little easier than cross country flight from Newark to Minneapolis. NW was an emotional dog fight win.

I... agree with you (??)

 

[fluoxetine]

Look, we did not play well on defense, BUT
Minny shot 50% from three.. that's not all on the defense
There were a number of plays where it looked like we were causing our usual havoc, and Minny ALMOST threw it out of bounds, but were able to hold on to the pass and make us pay.

So while I don't think we played well defensively, it also seemed like Minnesota was playing very well. We're just not going to go on the road and beat a decent team that is playing well all that often. The team is certainly improved but still isn't all THAT good realistically.

 

[G- RUnit]

I... agree with you (??)

Thanks Fluoxetine!! We are all fanatical RU fans. I like the give and take. It’s a message board. Good to see different opinions.

 

[rufeelinit]

I knew after watching how well Minnesota played Purdue in its last game that we were going to have our hands full. They have some legitimate players and their pieces seem to mesh well. Personally I don't see a lot of Iowa in their offense as they seemed to want to play more of fast paced transition game than I see from Iowa. Payne was really good and when I think about his development versus our bigs it is a little disappointing. I thought Johnson sat him for a long time in the second half and unfortunately got away with it.

They game got away from us quickly in the second half but really it started at the end of the first half. That offensive output for us in the first half was a bit of fools gold. While Cliff should have gotten the ball more in the second half history says he was not going to sustain his first half production. We really needed to clamp down on the other end and it never really happened.

The problem as I see it is that we have too many guys with very low floors. I realize these guys are not pros but who can we really count on from game to game? That Aundre Hyatt is still capable of games like last night after all this time is not good. People don't like Simpson taking some shots but what is the alternative on the perimeter and dribble drives. JWill helps and certainly makes the team better but let's see how he adapts after last night. The guy who has raised his floor from earlier in the year is probably Cliff.

I don't like Pike's substitution patterns but that is because he just does not have enough guys you can count on. Experience shows the likes of Noah and Oskar are not going to contribute every game. If they are not scoring they are not likely to help because of their deficiencies on the other end. Regarding Gavin, I don't know what to say other than he has not earned any significant playing time. Too early to give on him, but if we are trying to make the post season this year his needs to be on a very short leash.

I think the best we can hope for is 4-2 in the remaining 6 with 3-3 probably more realistic.

 

[G- RUnit]

Oh yeah how about the officiating!

BAC is loathe to comment on officiating but once again huge factor in the game.

In the legal community you want to avoid the appearance of impropriety.
I think having one particular ref working a Minnesota game is the appearance of impropriety.

Minnesota in the bonus and double bonus shooting in the first half. 10 fouls on RU to 6 for Minnesota. That kept them in the game.
Appearance of impropriety?

In one of our best foul shooting games in the Pike era we went 18-22 from the line. Kudos!!!

But….. you can’t ignore that Minnesota went 23-34 from the line.

I wasn’t a Math Major but one team going to the line 33% more than the other team is both unfair and a crucial factor in defeat.
I would have liked 12 more attempts in an 11 point game.

Appearance of impropriety?

 

[billgumpper]

Oh yeah how about the officiating!

BAC is loathe to comment on officiating but once again huge factor in the game.

In the legal community you want to avoid the appearance of impropriety.
I think having one particular ref working a Minnesota game is the appearance of impropriety.

Minnesota in the bonus and double bonus shooting in the first half. 10 fouls on RU to 6 for Minnesota. That kept them in the game.
Appearance of impropriety?

In one of our best foul shooting games in the Pike era we went 18-22 from the line. Kudos!!!

But….. you can’t ignore that Minnesota went 23-34 from the line.

I wasn’t a Math Major but one team going to the line 33% more than the other team is both unfair and a crucial factor in defeat.
I would have liked 12 more attempts in an 11 point game.

Appearance of impropriety?

The ft attempts were close until we started fouling at the end of the game.

 

[Joey Bacala]

Sometimes the fanbase here just isn't realistic. Sometimes who you play or the matchups aren't going to work out.

The thread is littered with things that aren't sustainable.....playing elite defense for 5, 6, 7 games in a row?? And as soon as that defense drops off OR is runs into a team that can handle pressure or make plays, then RU fans run for cover or start complaining about not having intensity that is on a scale of 9.9 out of 10.

The recap isn't really a recap, it's about matchups. And this year's Minnesota team, looks and appears to be closer to what Iowa looks like against RU....Iowa seemingly has unlimited confidence against RU, because it's entire system is tailor made for pressure....it's tailor made to beat double teams....it's designed to find players who can playmake...make passes....make you pay for being aggressive and double team and the ball always moves faster than elite defense.

Instead of saying the season is over or crying.....it comes down to not having enough playmakers on offense from the RU perspective, from 1 through the 5 position. Some played well in spots, like Davis. Simpson and obviously Cliff.....others are simply 100% reliant for others to set them up to score.....Hyatt, Mag, Palmquist or even Wolf needs the perfect pass and a defensive breakdown, in order to score.

The bottom line is, RU eventually needs legitimate threats, from 1 to 5, so if you play an Iowa, a Minnesota type of roster who can score, keeping teams in the 60s, isn't reality 10 out of 10 games.

RU has a legitimate problem that extends beyond what happens the rest of this season. The remaining 6 matchups are ALL winnable.....yes Purdue is a better matchup for RU than Iowa or this year's Minnesota team. I feel more confident playing Purdue with Cliff and Ogbole than I do asking Mag, Hyatt, Palmquist Wolf to be elite on defense 10 out of 10 games against an Iowa type of attack. That also extends down to a Chol or Austin Williams and perhaps Noah Fernandes.....but I think Noah is better suited in an up tempo setting vs asking him to play elite defense in a half court slugfest......the bigger picture extends beyond whether RU goes 3-3 the rest of the year or 4-2, 5-1 or even a miracle run of 6-0.....

The larger question is this year OR next year.....what is the gameplan, when the matchup isn't in the 60s......????...what happens when you see an up tempo team, who has guards that handle pressure??? What's RUs game plan to win a game in the 70s or low 80s, if the defense isn't 10 out of 10 for 35 games??

If JWill doesn't play lights out and give you 14PTS, is RU going to just lose?? What happens if Cliff has a great 1st half and perhaps gets in foul trouble and doesn't have another 12 PTS and 3 blocks in a 2nd half?? What's the plan NEXT year, if the defense isn't 2nd, or 3rd in all of CBB......will heads explode?? What's the game plan to find more playmaking, more scoring, more 3s??

There has to be someone next year that helps Dylan Harper and Ace Bailey in the scoring department....OR, will RU simply just lose any game, that Dylan and Ace don't shoot well??

Today's game needed someone to bail out JWill....he didn't score like the 1st 4 games, but are the wings the rest of this year (Hyatt, Mag, Palmquist or Griffiths) good enough to pick up the slack?? Right now, all 4, just don't have enough offense or can't create their own offense enough, to make up the difference IF Cliff cools off, if JWill cools off.

Set the remaining 6 games to the side.....I have always adamant that THIS year is about figuring out what's actually reliable enough to help win NEXT year. If you steal a bid to the NCAAs along the way, great. It would have been in reach if perhaps JWill just missed 15 or 16 games and not 20......

But.....as of today, I have THREE players, that if I throw the ball to next year, can go get a bucket, go make a play.....make a shot from 2 or 3.....and 2 of the 3, are still in high school right now. My comfort level is 100% there with JWill.....who else joins him??

If Mag is one of the 5 in the starting lineup next year....that is 100% OK with me.....because he's going to be the 4th or 5th option and MUST score and make teams pay for shutting down JWill, or if Dylan or Ace are swarmed. He has to be able to knock down shots.....take 4 to 5 3s, take available 2s, which will be available, 1 on 1.......

Is Gavin Griffiths going to step up....I "could" assume Cliff is a piece to that puzzle, but I also have to prepare that may not happen too. Is Lathan Sommerville that scoring threat?? The tape says 1000% YES, but that's offense.....what will that look like on defense?? Not really that concerned about that.

The bottom line is the rest of this year and next year, someone has to help score and create offense if JWill is off, or taken away for stretches of games.

Fans may cringe....is it Derek Simpson....is it JMike Davis?? Part of THIS year was always a ramp up for next year, so there's something to go to off the bench. I think Simpson and Davis, despite others hyperfocused on shooting percentages, you have to love their defense and as a 3rd and 4th guard next year, they're right on schedule (to me).

Right now, the missing piece of the puzzle, is Mag or a better player via the portal, who I absolutely know will score and rebound.....Mag absolutely has to score for this team to be successful.....he has to reach 10, 12, 14 or more points when JWill doesn't OR the game is in the mid to high 70s next year. I don't see a path for winning many games the rest of this year without 3s and shooting and scoring from Hyatt and Mag.......and next year, I have to assume Ace will score enough.....whomever is paired with him has to deliver.

The days of asking every game or opponent to be played in the low to mid 60s, isn't feasible.

Hawk I agree. Assuming Cliff cannot be convinced to stay another year, we need the following to stay:

- Davis
- Simpson (this board is too rough on him)
- Mag
- GG (I still do think he'll figure it out)
- Ogbole
- JWill

Everyone else needs the "talk" and should find someplace where they can contribute.

 

[G- RUnit]

The ft attempts were close until we started fouling at the end of the game.

Wasn’t close in the first half.

 

[socaldave]

Game was lost with the big minutes and effort played by jeremiah simpsom and cliff vs Northwestern…..

I think Pike should have played jeremiah less in half 1.

I have been saying this for awhile now. Gavin should not be playing. A williams or oskar please.

Gavin is going backwards. We are hurting his development playing him.

Agreed on JWill hard not to play a game for so long and play as much as soon, as he has been playing. Mag is tired as well coming off his injury is catching up.
Cliff, Mag, JWill all need another year in college. They may have pro futures but the future is not now.
If those 3 come back with what’s coming in next year will have final 4 talent.
What Pike does with it will tell us a lot about his acumen.
Won’t miss empty 4 point turnaround important trips with the ball in Hyatt’s hand!!!

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

Except part of the failure was the problem from the early part of year , the total lack of defensive rebounding except for Cliff . Hyatt, Wolf , Mag and Gavin do not even try to jump or get a rebound . That is not being exhausted from the NW game just bad fundamental basketball . This was something I thought we were done with but it came back to bite us in the ass .
The amount of missed layups where we were sped up , also was something I thought we were past or at least improved with , but it reared its ugly head. That had nothing to do with tired legs.
Maybe no in your face defense and that was absent and maybe part of your point , but if we just did the 2 other things we likely win the game. I am not attributing it to tired legs.

The simplest answer is that better offensive players, make more fundamental plays on a consistent basis. If you are a B+ player, B+ athlete, you'll make more layups, gather more rebounds and create more plays.

RU is still a roster split into two very distinct categories, those who can play when the pace speeds up and those who can't on a consistent basis.

The more players that you are married to defensively HAVE to be able to do some basic offensive things at a Power 5 level. The 2024 and 2025 kids have a higher floor on athletic abilities, skill level, ability to play at a faster pace AND are capable of defending, once they get the system down (specifically Ace Bailey, Bryce Dortch and Dylan Grant, in the front court, mixed with Lathan Sommerville and his offensive skill levels, fundamentals). It will take 2 more classes (2025 and 2026) to have 4 to 5 consecutive classes with plus athletic abilities mixed with the higher floor of fundamentals and skills you want to see.

Keep in mind, how many skeptical fans were of JaMicheal Davis and fans saying we only took him because of Ace Bailey. He is a plus athlete and competitive levels are at 10 out of 10. Add Simpson and JWill to that mix and his willingness to empty the tank and hustle on defense and we just need the front court pieces, to compliment what's being built at guard.

 

[goru7]

Respectfully…missing layups can be part about having less in the tank to explode

To me …I saw a team come out with a lot less energy out of the lockerroom …and that showed on both ends

Lot of people kill New Jersey Hawk….but he says one thing that’s really true. To be more than .500 and a bubble team, you have to be able to play and win different style of games and different matchups . Our Achilles heel is the Iowa and Minnesota types . It’s why we have issues with Illinois. For us to take the next step, it requires us to be able to win games that are not just rock fights at 63-60, we need to be able to win a 78-74 game on the road …or in a neutral site. To have that, we need more guys on the floor who can score mutiple ways without needing to be set up to score AND willing buy in to playing Pike’s defense. You can have a low post center like cliff , but you neee a couple of guys like Jwill who can break it down and force opponents to dedicate resources to defens and not have more to double team

This starts with better recruiting …and that’s already on the way.

But …until we get there, matchups matter a lot to us. Avoid Iowa, Minnesota . Illinois Types and our chance to win goes up . Especially on the road

Except you didn’t address anything I stated. The abysmal rebounding and JMike and Hyatt missing layups and Jeremiah not converting the 3 on 1 have absolutely nothing with not matching up well. It has to do with JMike who converted a bunch of first half layups thinking he could do it again and not letting Cliff be the one to convert when he was scoring and shooting well first half 6-9. Those 2 layup misses caused runouts that Minnesota converted. . JMike also went for a steal 2 times and did not get it leaving guy open who drilled 2 threes. That has nothing to do with fatigue or playing a team with tempo , that is just bad fundamental basketball.
Hyatt missing 2 layups and forcing drives had nothing to do with tempo , just a flaw in his game , that he still has not realized. Instead of hitting a 3 or 2 of them that might have swung the game to us , they converted on his misses and got transition 3’s . Again , nothing to do with tempo but to due with patience and smarts on the basketball court.
Rutgers could have beaten Minnesota in the 70’s yesterday playing up tempo without elite defense if the fundamentals were just executed. A huge missed opportunity

 

[goru7]

Sorry BAC. This can not be more wrong:

“Derek looking like a mess with his decision making for most of the game and then suddenly waking up but waay too late”

Most games fans would be praising a player who had 19 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, and 1 steal and 4-4 from the line, caused his usual havoc on D and willed RU back in the game. A mess?

We get you want to hand over the keys to the car to JMike over Simpson but you can’t in good faith say Simpson was guilty of bad decision making when he played 32 minutes and had only ONE turnover!!! Most would say that’s intelligent play making. Looking like a mess is so not fair.

Play at end of first half was unfortunate but Simpson has hit big shots before with time running out, see Stonehill & Indiana. JWill was not having a good game.

Guessing play was to run clock out as long as possible and try to take lead for the half. Problem wasn’t decision making but ball taking an unusual bounce. Hope if a miss Cliff could get a rebound. Issue was execution and worse bounce than usual.

In any event, key was start to second half with several badly missed layups and a bad turnover(that was the bad decision making) which sparked Minnesota to a 11-2 run from which we never recovered.

Home teams winning at 73% of time at home. Flight from Indiana to Minnesota little easier than cross country flight from Newark to Minneapolis. NW was an emotional dog fight win.

I have no problem with Derek’sgame yesterday as it was really good , solid on both ends . The last possession was terrible but that is on Pike. Allowing the shot and game click to run down and not have that ball going into Cliff for a shot or a foul or a make or a kick out was the issue. They couldn’t stop Cliff. You go up at last 2 with a miss or 4 or 5 with a make or a foul and instead it was tied . Huge swing there . Having Payne dominate and allow him to get offensive board and put back baskets were the only reason Minnesota wasn’t down 8-10. . Wolf’s failure was massive as was the entire front court deciding that only Cliff could get a rebound and they didn’t rebound , Wolf, Hyatt, Mag and Gavin were MIA on the boards and it hurt us.

 

[G- RUnit]

Hawk I agree. Assuming Cliff cannot be convinced to stay another year, we need the following to stay:

- Davis
- Simpson (this board is too rough on him)
- Mag
- GG (I still do think he'll figure it out)
- Ogbole
- JWill

Everyone else needs the "talk" and should find someplace where they can contribute.

Thank you for the obvious on Simpson!!!!

Simpson and Cliff were the only players who showed up yesterday. Wouldn’t know that from most RU fans on this board.

Ridiculous how little praise for Simpson who had a very good game.

As I mentioned above, 19 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 4-4 from the line, and only one single turnover in 32 minutes is a great stat line. Plus his hustle and usual havoc on D. The two smart hustle plays trailing the fast breaks and getting RU two easy baskets were invaluable. He should be praised to the RU basketball gods. Shot at end of half was unfortunate due to an unusual bounce. He really played quite well but you wouldn’t know it from the comments on this thread. RU fans so in love with other players they can’t admit they were dead wrong.

I thought Pike kept him out too long. I liked the line up of Derek, JWill, Hyatt, Mag and Cliff. It’s no coincidence that the RU comeback started when Derek was re-inserted and like OSU he almost willed us to victory again.

Think Mag still fighting injury. JWill had first rough game. Firmly believe sneakers didn’t help. I thought after NW, Oskar deserved some more minutes. Gavin has improved defensively but hurting us now offensively. I wonder if Noah was 100%.

Minny is tough at home and not bad at all.
Cross country flight after tough nail biter win after NW. Not making excuses but not surprised either.

 

[Bayonnebomber79]

ImAllowing the shot and game click to run down and not have that ball going into Cliff for a shot or a foul or a make or a kick out was the issue. They couldn’t stop Cliff. You go up at last 2 with a miss or 4 or 5 with a make or a foul and instead it was tied . Huge swing there .

This, IMHO, was the turning point of the game. It gave the goobers a big lift.

 

[bac2therac]

Thank you for the obvious on Simpson!!!!

Simpson and Cliff were the only players who showed up yesterday. Wouldn’t know that from most RU fans on this board.

Ridiculous how little praise for Simpson who had a very good game.

As I mentioned above, 19 points, 5 rebounds, 3 assists, 1 steal, 4-4 from the line, and only one single turnover in 32 minutes is a great stat line. Plus his hustle and usual havoc on D. The two smart hustle plays trailing the fast breaks and getting RU too easy baskets were invaluable. He should be praised to the RU basketball gods. Shot at end of half was unfortunate due to an unusual bounce. He really played quite well but you wouldn’t know it from the comments on this thread. RU fans so in love with other players they can’t admit they were dead wrong.

I thought Pike kept him out too long. I liked the line up of Derek, JWill, Hyatt, Mag and Cliff. It’s no coincidence that the RU comeback started when Derek was re-inserted and like OSU he almost willed us to victory again.

Think Mag still fighting injury. JWill had first rough game. Firmly believe sneakers didn’t help. I thought after NW, Oskar deserved some more minutes. Gavin has improved defensively but hurting us now offensively. I wonder if Noah was 100%.

Minny is tough at home and not bad at all.
Cross country flight after tough nail biter win after NW. Not making excuses but not surprised either.

rutgers was down 17 with 3;39...if that score stood the rest of the game, no one would sing Dereks praises, we had meaningless comeback where his stats got padded, too little too late, for me I am analyzing what was happening when the game was in reach...end of haltime...some awful drives in the 2nd,

After the Minny run to start the 2nd, RU chipped it down to 50-44 where I can say okay get a stop and score and we were in this. I think RU did not have much have much energy to pull from to value any possession. Grfig is right, the NW game did take something out of them. They tried the fools gold way but thinking 3 point shooting or wild rim attempts could get them in.

sure RU never gave up but Im not really crediting for turning up the heat late and cutting it down to 6.

 

[G- RUnit]

Except you didn’t address anything I stated. The abysmal rebounding and JMike and Hyatt missing layups and Jeremiah not converting the 3 on 1 have absolutely nothing with not matching up well. It has to do with JMike who converted a bunch of first half layups thinking he could do it again and not letting Cliff be the one to convert when he was scoring and shooting well first half 6-9. Those 2 layup misses caused runouts that Minnesota converted. . JMike also went for a steal 2 times and did not get it leaving guy open who drilled 2 threes. That has nothing to do with fatigue or playing a team with tempo , that is just bad fundamental basketball.
Hyatt missing 2 layups and forcing drives had nothing to do with tempo , just a flaw in his game , that he still has not realized. Instead of hitting a 3 or 2 of them that might have swung the game to us , they converted on his misses and got transition 3’s . Again , nothing to do with tempo but to due with patience and smarts on the basketball court.
Rutgers could have beaten Minnesota in the 70’s yesterday playing up tempo without elite defense if the fundamentals were just executed. A huge missed opportunity

All those bad decisions on offense and defense at the start of the second half put Minny on the 11-2 run from which we never recovered.

 

[G- RUnit]

rutgers was down 17 with 3;39...if that score stood the rest of the game, no one would sing Dereks praises, we had meaningless comeback where his stats got padded, too little too late, for me I am analyzing what was happening when the game was in reach...end of haltime...some awful drives in the 2nd,

After the Minny run to start the 2nd, RU chipped it down to 50-44 where I can say okay get a stop and score and we were in this. I think RU did not have much have much energy to pull from to value any possession. Grfig is right, the NW game did take something out of them. They tried the fools gold way but thinking 3 point shooting or wild rim attempts could get them in.

sure RU never gave up but Im not really crediting for turning up the heat late and cutting it down to 6.

Meaningless comeback? Padding the numbers? Cutting a lead from 17 to 6 doesn’t count?? It’s not like Minny just lost a game where they were up by 20. Oh wait they did. The look of pure horror on Johnson’s face when he called the time out.
I for one am not going to poo poo a nice comeback. It was neither meaningless or padding the numbers. Putting us within two possessions was pretty darn good.

One turnover in 32 minutes. Bad decision making? That’s great decision making.

Hustle plays on two Fastbreaks when we clanked layups. Rebounds and two quick easy baskets. Bad decision making?

4-4 from the line? Bad decision making?

Hustle and defensive havoc. It wasn’t Derek who left Minny guys open for wide open threes. Re-watch the game.

Padding the numbers? Poor decision making? You’re much better than this BAC. Really bad takes. Sorry.

 

[Big boy stan]

Certainly not a going to change the outcome last night but it is amazing to me that Noah can have the game of his life a week ago and then shoot a total of zero shots in the next two.

 

[bac2therac]

Certainly not a going to change the outcome last night but it is amazing to me that Noah can have the game of his life a week ago and then shoot a total of zero shots in the next two.

in fairness I think he is a bit banged up thats exactly who he is. He is going to gave a good shooting night 1 out of 5 but I saw some falling into a trap of thinking that they would get this all the time...ditto for Palm....one out of 10 or more. The key is someone has to step up...still waiting for Gavin to do it

 

[Shelby65]

Certainly not a going to change the outcome last night but it is amazing to me that Noah can have the game of his life a week ago and then shoot a total of zero shots in the next two.

Because of the two selfish chuckers ahead of him in the rotation. Oskar didn’t get a shot yesterday either.

 

[G- RUnit]

in fairness I think he is a bit banged up thats exactly who he is. He is going to gave a good shooting night 1 out of 5 but I saw some falling into a trap of thinking that they would get this all the time...ditto for Palm....one out of 10 or more. The key is someone has to step up...still waiting for Gavin to do it

Noah has also surprisingly been a good rebounder. Agree he appears banged up.

 

[Big boy stan]

in fairness I think he is a bit banged up thats exactly who he is.

I get that. I realize he is not going to shoot 100% from 3 let alone 60% probably ever again. But on a team that desperately needs outside shooting, I am surprised he does not have at least 2 attempts in each game. Even if they seem forced I think they affect the floor.

Because of the two selfish chuckers ahead of him in the rotation.

Its a fact that he did not have many opportunities but I saw at least two times that he got the ball behind the line with no defender on him and rotated it right away to the other side of the court.

Again, not going to make or break this team. Just seems odd that a player could come off that wisky game and then be OK with zero attempts

 

[Scarlet83]

Oh yeah how about the officiating!

BAC is loathe to comment on officiating but once again huge factor in the game.

In the legal community you want to avoid the appearance of impropriety.
I think having one particular ref working a Minnesota game is the appearance of impropriety.

Minnesota in the bonus and double bonus shooting in the first half. 10 fouls on RU to 6 for Minnesota. That kept them in the game.
Appearance of impropriety?

In one of our best foul shooting games in the Pike era we went 18-22 from the line. Kudos!!!

But….. you can’t ignore that Minnesota went 23-34 from the line.

I wasn’t a Math Major but one team going to the line 33% more than the other team is both unfair and a crucial factor in defeat.
I would have liked 12 more attempts in an 11 point game.

Appearance of impropriety?

Which official are you referring to with regard to Minnesota?

 

[koleszar]

Here comes the attacks-- now we're onto the strength and conditioning coach-- is the trainer going to be next since Mag and Noah were banged up.

Not an attack more an observation. Someone brought up Gavin having to gain 15 to 20 lbs to become a force. Well, who on our current or past teams have you seen putting on 15 to 20 lbs of muscle? I haven't, so I don't think that'll happen with our current strength and conditioning coach.

 

[Scarlet Shack]

Except you didn’t address anything I stated. The abysmal rebounding and JMike and Hyatt missing layups and Jeremiah not converting the 3 on 1 have absolutely nothing with not matching up well. It has to do with JMike who converted a bunch of first half layups thinking he could do it again and not letting Cliff be the one to convert when he was scoring and shooting well first half 6-9. Those 2 layup misses caused runouts that Minnesota converted. . JMike also went for a steal 2 times and did not get it leaving guy open who drilled 2 threes. That has nothing to do with fatigue or playing a team with tempo , that is just bad fundamental basketball.
Hyatt missing 2 layups and forcing drives had nothing to do with tempo , just a flaw in his game , that he still has not realized. Instead of hitting a 3 or 2 of them that might have swung the game to us , they converted on his misses and got transition 3’s . Again , nothing to do with tempo but to due with patience and smarts on the basketball court.
Rutgers could have beaten Minnesota in the 70’s yesterday playing up tempo without elite defense if the fundamentals were just executed. A huge missed opportunity

Ummm…respectfully , the fundamentals do NOT get excecuted as well when fatigued kicks in …

We can agree to disagree …but personally I thought it was fools gold that we were leading in the first half …as we shot extremely well, and as soon as we went into the locker room , we didn’t have the same step and hop to the step that we needed. Think that was more of the reason why pike took the quick time out and even sat cliff , who has looked pretty tired the last couple of games (including the end of the northwestern game ).

You can only “pump yourself up “ and play on adrenienal for so long before your come down …and that’s what I saw hallen

Agree to disagree , that’s fine …but I saw first half plays being made that I was like “is this sustainable “. When even in the first half we were a step behind on defense …which became more obvious as the game went into half number 2

 

[RAC93]

I dunno our first half had no defensive intensity, any little lead we had was pissed away. The last sequence with Derek is infuriating to me because it does not have to happen..if you are going to do that please dont have the entire team parked under the basket...throw the ball inside for a shot and time will run on rebound

no excuse for continually just running clock and throwing up a 3 on our last possesion

Last possession of the half was awful. Had a two point lead and should have have gone in with minimum two point lead or more. Instead we put up a chuck, and Minny is going the other way for two and then it’s tied at the half. Not the reason we lost, but it’s just not smart basketball. Going in at the half up four, especially on the road, is a big difference in momentum from a tie. We would have lost the game anyway, but it seems like we always just chuck a 3 late in the clock on those end of half plays. Also no idea why Simpson stood dribbling the ball on that play for 15 seconds up top while JWill stood in the corner the whole time. I was yelling at the TV for him to go get the ball and run the play. JWill is not a corner three point shooter so no idea why he ended up parked in the corner so much last night.

 

[rucoe89]

You need to give Minnesota a lot of credit. They came out in the second half and bitch smacked us. For all this board talks about Garcia the kid Payne has had two monster games against us. At least we're not a train wreck team anymore but unless we beat Purdue that likely puts NCAA talk to bed. I'd personally be happy with NIT and said that after Game 1 this season.

Payne was a man among boys. He manhandled our upperclassmen. As a sophomore. Our S&C program needs to upgrade. We looked small out there.

 

[goru7]

Ummm…respectfully , the fundamentals do NOT get excecuted as well when fatigued kicks in …

We can agree to disagree …but personally I thought it was fools gold that we were leading in the first half …as we shot extremely well, and as soon as we went into the locker room , we didn’t have the same step and hop to the step that we needed. Think that was more of the reason why pike took the quick time out and even sat cliff , who has looked pretty tired the last couple of games (including the end of the northwestern game ).

You can only “pump yourself up “ and play on adrenienal for so long before your come down …and that’s what I saw hallen

Agree to disagree , that’s fine …but I saw first half plays being made that I was like “is this sustainable “. When even in the first half we were a step behind on defense …which became more obvious as the game went into half number 2

Ok. Agree to disagree but we executed well. Got Cliff going , made our layups and almost all the shots were good shots until Gavin got his shot blocked. Did not see anything forced , we were just outplaying them and should have been up 8-10 at half if Wolf ‘s play doesn’t allow Payne to dominate not just on a post up but on offensive rebound put backs. You cannot argue fatigue with Wolf as he did not play the last 3 games. Fatigue did not have us missing layups in the first half and almost all went in. I guess you suggest it caught up with them in the second half, but I saw the 2 missed layups byJmike and the 2 by Hyatt were reckless and not smart , as compared to fatigue. Wolf getting stuffed by Payne 2 x was not fatigue but lack of an offensive move to get a bucket or draw a foul or a failure to kick out for a 3.

 

[Shelby65]

Ummm…respectfully , the fundamentals do NOT get excecuted as well when fatigued kicks in …

We can agree to disagree …but personally I thought it was fools gold that we were leading in the first half …as we shot extremely well, and as soon as we went into the locker room , we didn’t have the same step and hop to the step that we needed. Think that was more of the reason why pike took the quick time out and even sat cliff , who has looked pretty tired the last couple of games (including the end of the northwestern game ).

You can only “pump yourself up “ and play on adrenienal for so long before your come down …and that’s what I saw hallen

Agree to disagree , that’s fine …but I saw first half plays being made that I was like “is this sustainable “. When even in the first half we were a step behind on defense …which became more obvious as the game went into half number 2

Nope. Wrong. Only our team gets tired, nevermind that we have a longer bench (not saying better) than most teams ? Missed layups are from playing scared of contact or getting rejected. You think Wolf can’t make bunnies because he’s winded ? Winded from what ? Too much clapping on the bench ?

 

[rufeelinit]

Which official are you referring to with regard to Minnesota?

The grey haired guy. I think his name is Eric Carter. If he or his company is a big donor to Minnesota then it would seem to be a bad optics situation at a minimum.

 

[Scarlet83]

The grey haired guy. I think his name is Eric Carter. If he or his company is a big donor to Minnesota then it would seem to be a bad optics situation at a minimum.

Last name is Curry. He is horrendous.

 

[bac2therac]

The problem is for most of year we start 4 6th-9th men....Addition of Jeremiah changed that

The bench is more like 10-12th men than the need 6th-8th

Thats a result of bad luck losing 2 guards in portal but Pikes shaky recruiting