ADVERTISEMENT

GAME 4: Honeymoon Over

bac2therac

Legend
Gold Member
Jul 30, 2001
221,109
145,085
113
54
Belle Mead NJ
I was a student back in the late 80s/early 90s where playing St Bonaventure evoked audible laughter as they were an atrocious bottom feeder. Through the years, we have seen the ineptitude of Rutgers for almost 30 years while the Bonnies shook off their doormat status somewhat, yeah only 3 NCAAs in that time but its 3 more than RU and now St Bonaventure has beaten RU the last two games. Somethings change, something stay the same....same old Rutgers. And it truly is same ole Rutgers until something changes and the glaring reality is that Rutgers has not finished over 500 since 2006 yet we are seeing some sort of hype and expectations of post season this year that makes you scratch your head given the first 4 games.

So many things disturbed me about this game but in retrospect the level of play vs Bryant and Drexel was quite telling. When your experienced players are struggling against those kind of teams where you are life and death and your guards cannot hit the broadside of a barn, Its pretty easy to see as the level of competition rises that its going to bite you in the ass and it did. I am not going to give too much credit to RU playing better in the 2nd half....they did..and its a shame because if they played like they did the full 40 minutes they would have won the game. The D tightened up on the Bonnies and held them down to like 3 points for almost 6 minutes. The game was lost in the first half, you cannot go down 19 on a neutral court that was pro Bonnies and expect to win. The team is soft and lacks toughness (yes cliche terms I know), seems way overconfident in just how good they are and in the approach to the game. Mentally this team isnt not good at being the hunted at all.

The hard truth is there are no stars on this team and while balance is good, its not good when you do not have players that can take over a game. St Bonnies had two freshmen from the local area who combined for 39 points and were 7-10 from 3. Does RU have guys like these? Through the first 4 games I would say no. This was St Bonaventure not Michigan State. Our guards shot 12-35 and 6-21 from 3. Our junior guard continues to put up poor shooting numbers. Our inside game is a positive. We have some success. Myles had a solid game when he got the opportunity. Unfortunately the inside game is not consistent enough nor is their a consistent effort to get the ball inside. I have criticized the offense all year and tonight is no different. Ditto for the offense. Tonights game was just a continuation of the poor games vs Drexel and Bryant. If I keep repeating myself, I am.

I think this was one of Pikiell's worst coached games here. One, he didnt have the team prepared at all for this game and thats a trend this year. Secondly, he seemingly didnt prepare for a freshmen tandem chucking up outside shots. Third his time management down the stretch was simply horrific. St Bonnies got the ball up 4 with 59 seconds left, RU called its last timeout and the proceeded to take 27 seconds to give 3 fouls to put in STB in the one and one. Absolutely terrible terrible terrible. How can that happen. You either set up quick aggressive traps or really go for a hard steal there quickly. Not to mention I still do not get Pike's manlove with Jacob Young, its hurting the team. Pike is struggling with the lineup and the program is also struggling without Eugene. No one can tell me otherwise.. Yes eventually we will move on as we go into the season but his loss may cost us a few wins and a few months of developing. When Caleb is your top rebounder that is an issue.

At some point the program has to shit or get off the pot. Its not unreasonable to expect to beat a middling 0-3 St Bonaventure team. Cue the propping up of the Bonnies as a quality team.....This was a bad loss no question. Can the program recover. Yes it is only one game, one loss, RU can win at Pitt and that will be a test to see if they are improving. But 4 games in, it seems like we have more questions and more worries than we did coming into the season. Uncertainty isnt a good thing. RU has a very very tough matchup this week with a dangerous program in SF Austin. This game to me will answer some short term questions I think. For longer term questions, its going take until January to know where we really sit but call me concerned....I am concerned because I am not sure the level of talent on this team is good enough overall to be a consistent winner and I dont see us winning needed recruiting battles for next year. So while RU as a program is slowly getting better, do we have the impact players...are the players we have touted on the team now..our guards...are they good enough. We have seen Young struggle, Mulcahy appears nowhere near ready for even midlevel competition. Doucoure and Kiss are non factors. Geo just doesnt have a high percentage shooting though I love the guy overall. Yeboah is a nice addition for some offense but he is gone next year. Myles doesnt appear to be strong enough to a main option for our offense. So then we have 3 other guards who at times have looked good but other times do not. Thus far we look quite ordinary and ordinary will not cut it in Big 10 play to get us to 500 in league. We do not have good shooters, without good shooters you have to rely on great defense and we dont have that. We do not have a three point shooter 4 years into the Pike regime. So we are reaching a crossroads point right now....where are we headed and what kind of identity do we have. I wasnt expecting to have to ask those questions this early in the season. Its year 4, its okay to have expectations. I do not think I am being unreasonable with such a negative recap tonight.
 
I really thought this team would be better this year, but Eugene leaving was a huge loss. One that we may not recover from. Geo is our only upper class leader. It is very difficult to win without upperclassmen. I have faith in Geo and our sophomores, but this may be more of a learning year. Guess we will just have to enjoy the ride and hope the experience pays off next year.
 
What really disappoints me is our sophomores looked to really show flashes last year especially towards the end of the year. None if them have shown any development. They look uninspired.
 
what we dont want to happen to these sophs is a repeat of what happened to Rice's sophs where we didnt see the leap in level of play from year 1 to year 2 after a promising year as frosh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JQRU91 and kcg88
It's living in a vacuum of insanity for RU fans....upsets only happen elsewhere....teams don't get blitzed by hot shooting elsewhere, only vs RU.

There are 2 items that need to be solved by Pike.

A) if you are trailing, Mulcahy isn't a good man to man defensive player.....so while Geo digs in on defense, the 22 legitimate opponents will just attack Mulcahy off the dribble....just like teams attacked Eugene off the dribble last year. Neither helps you and you cant flop anymore, which removes the best aspect of Eugene on defense.

B) Young is a much better on ball defender, but doesn't have the PG game in half court to make the right play.

C) The team has no bigs that can run and jump to block a shot or get out on shooters.

While lots of words and hyperbole sound good, the roster has to develop a plan to find that type of big forward in 2020. It's not overly complicated, it's not losing Eugene, otherwise this team would not have looked the same way last year....when Eugene was here.

Jacob Young is the wild card of this roster right now. We need his athletic ability but he's not playing as well as his skill sets should.
 
St Bonaventure has a difficult schedule, schedule of strength is probably top 10-20, loss by 2 home to Vermont 4-0 who just won @St. John's , lost by 12 to Ohio 3-1 (only loss to 'Nova), lost by 13 @Siena 2-2 (losses to Xavier and Harvard), and Rutgers 3-1. They had to break through and they did tonight. Is it a bad loss if they finish top half of the A10 with 18-20 wins? Duke had a close win to D2 champion Northwest Missouri St 69-63 in an exhibition game. Kentucky lost @home to Evansville. NW lost to new D1 Merrimack. Alabama lost to Penn and Rhode Island. All kinds of P5 losses to non power 5 teams at home and road. Does it make all these teams bad? No. Let the season play out.
 
Jay Young is greatly missed

Eugene is greatly missed

Guys need to step and live up to their expectations.

Truth be told, I expected us to lose tonight. We generally played awful over the first 3 games and there are too many glaring weaknesses
 
  • Like
Reactions: bac2therac
Disagree with BAC’s review getting all over the guards and Jacob Young but not boo about Harper or Mathis? Why are these two sacred?
Guards are shooting as nothing from those two. Caleb’s foul shooting kept us in the game in the first half.
Actually thought Young made some nice plays. Caleb’s no look pass to Johnson was a thing of beauty. Ripping Mulchay but Harper gets two stupid early fouls pushing off and a bad three and the Bonnie’s take off... Fair amount of blame to go around.
Foul Shooting still atrious.
Why not use our depth to press full court if you want to play everybody?
Gotta recruit a pure shooter soon.
 
Little no big man depth on this team and myles was only able to log 17 minutes (had a lot of success when he had the ball down low). This team’s identity under Pikiell has always been physicality and crashing the boards. If what you say in Doucoure being a non factor is true (I would say he was a positive contributor his freshman year, not ready to write him off completely), I am not sure that this team can compete throughout the grueling big ten schedule. It is clear Pike has not figured out the rotations that will work for this team. I did find it interesting that he experimented with Harper at the 4, Yeboah at the 5 for a small stretch tonight. I would still say this is Pike’s most talented team yet, but we are moving farther away from what has worked in past years, playing from the inside-out and emphasizing defense. Through 4 games, we have the 30th shortest avg possession length in the nation, and we do not have the shooters, or scorers for that matter, to try and out gun the opponent and consistently score in the 80s. Still a long season ahead but disappointing start so far
 
Disagree with BAC’s review getting all over the guards and Jacob Young but not boo about Harper or Mathis? Why are these two sacred?
Guards are shooting as nothing from those two. Caleb’s foul shooting kept us in the game in the first half.
Actually thought Young made some nice plays. Caleb’s no look pass to Johnson was a thing of beauty. Ripping Mulchay but Harper gets two stupid early fouls pushing off and a bad three and the Bonnie’s take off... Fair amount of blame to go around.
Foul Shooting still atrious.
Why not use our depth to press full court if you want to play everybody?
Gotta recruit a pure shooter soon.


I did mention them...in the three guards section where they are inconsistent..today both were MIA in this game specifically. Thats my point, we are relying on our guards and they are not delivering.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RUJMM78
Little no big man depth on this team and myles was only able to log 17 minutes (had a lot of success when he had the ball down low). This team’s identity under Pikiell has always been physicality and crashing the boards. If what you say in Doucoure being a non factor is true (I would say he was a positive contributor his freshman year, not ready to write him off completely), I am not sure that this team can compete throughout the grueling big ten schedule. It is clear Pike has not figured out the rotations that will work for this team. I did find it interesting that he experimented with Harper at the 4, Yeboah at the 5 for a small stretch tonight. I would still say this is Pike’s most talented team yet, but we are moving farther away from what has worked in past years, playing from the inside-out and emphasizing defense. Through 4 games we are 30th in the nation in tempo and we do not have the shooters, or scorers for that matter, to try and out gun the opponent and consistently score in the 80s. Still a long season ahead but disappointing start so far


good point....RU isnt going to win track meets so not sure why we are playing so fast. Did it in the first game and did it today too, when we buckled things down on defense in the 2nd half and our offense settled into a groove when we werent chucking up quick shots, all of sudden we were controlling tempo, getting back in the game. I mentioned in the game thread when StB had 54 already at 15 minutes, I said we will not win this unless we keep it under 75...we did well for a while there slowing down the Bonnies to no points in almost 6 minutes but you cant dig a 19 point hole and expect to win
 
good point....RU isnt going to win track meets so not sure why we are playing so fast. Did it in the first game and did it today too, when we buckled things down on defense in the 2nd half and our offense settled into a groove when we werent chucking up quick shots, all of sudden we were controlling tempo, getting back in the game. I mentioned in the game thread when StB had 54 already at 15 minutes, I said we will not win this unless we keep it under 75...we did well for a while there slowing down the Bonnies to no points in almost 6 minutes but you cant dig a 19 point hole and expect to win

I think the idea was to wear teams down with our depth. The problem is that from top to bottom we aren’t that good right now so the depth just means throwing waves of mediocre players on the court right now..not really an advantage. We have some long guards but we aren’t quick at all so I’m not sure it will ever work.
 
St Bonaventure was good in the 70s...I remember as a kid going to the NIT game at Jadwin in ‘77 (a year after Rutgers Final Four Team), Bonnies win on buzzer beater en route to NIT Title....
 
  • Like
Reactions: bethlehemfan
The defense is a big big big problem

The number of three points shots that we have allowed to be taken this year ...forget what has been made...but the number of shots allowed to be taken by our opponents from three ....is telling on how bad the defense has been

We are lucky not to be 1-3, as if Bryant and Drexel shot a better percentage on makabke threes ...that’s what we would be

Unless our defense takes a major improvement ...we will be lucky to equal last years 14-17. And you guys know high I was on this team to start the year...didn’t see our perimeter defense being this bad at all
 
St Bonaventure has a difficult schedule, schedule of strength is probably top 10-20, loss by 2 home to Vermont 4-0 who just won @St. John's , lost by 12 to Ohio 3-1 (only loss to 'Nova), lost by 13 @Siena 2-2 (losses to Xavier and Harvard), and Rutgers 3-1. They had to break through and they did tonight. Is it a bad loss if they finish top half of the A10 with 18-20 wins? Duke had a close win to D2 champion Northwest Missouri St 69-63 in an exhibition game. Kentucky lost @home to Evansville. NW lost to new D1 Merrimack. Alabama lost to Penn and Rhode Island. All kinds of P5 losses to non power 5 teams at home and road. Does it make all these teams bad? No. Let the season play out.

The flaw here is that this wasn’t a one-off poor performance. It was the THIRD bad performance out of four games, with the same trends we saw in the first two bad games: (1) bad perimeter defense; and (2) horrendous 3-pt shooting.

So, yeah, good teams lose to mid majors. But good teams DO NOT play poorly against low to mid major competition in three out of four games.

This is officially a trend. And we are right to be gravely concerned about the season.
 
The flaw here is that this wasn’t a one-off poor performance. It was the THIRD bad performance out of four games, with the same trends we saw in the first two bad games: (1) bad perimeter defense; and (2) horrendous 3-pt shooting.

So, yeah, good teams lose to mid majors. But good teams DO NOT play poorly against low to mid major competition in three out of four games.

This is officially a trend. And we are right to be gravely concerned about the season.
I’m with you on your thoughts, but I almost always agree with your opinions. Tonight was the night that broke my strong belief and support of pike. I still want him to succeed very badly. I like the guy a lot and think he is trying hard to do the job. But I see the trend too and it is concerning. Rightnow I don’t think this team goes above .500 for the season which would be a bitter disappointment in my book and for most fans. The departures in the roster and the coaching staff do not look like they were filled well. Pike gets one too flight prospect a year when he needs to get 3. This roster doesn’t seem to have guys who can take over a game. I’m now a bit of a skeptic. I wish I wasn’t but the evidence has pushed me that way
 
I've watched probably more than 30 games so far this season and thought, "this team isn't as good as last year's team".

And I compare it to where it was at the end of last year.

This Jay Young item is also comedy as well...the same roster gave up
80 plus to Indiana in the finale,
80+ at Purdue
80+ at Minnesota
70s to Maryland,
Almost 80 allowed to Fordham..

Tons of points allowed at Illinois in an overtime loss....

We gave up 65 to Northwestern at home...a team that wasn't good on offense last year.

Did I see comments about missing defense last year during these 10+ games.....did Eugene not play in all of these games last year??

The fans like coaches comments and feed into every morsel of what's said, vs looking at reality. I like Jay Young as a person and he's a good coach....but to think this was some juggernaut lock down defensive team last year is comical.....they played solid defense in spurts....

The roster doesn't have a shot blocking forward or dominant athletes all over the place like Michigan State.

A lot of teams that were better last year, have lost huge players and will take time to adjust.....RU will adjust as well to new players, just like everyone else does.
 
Pikiell's defensive reputation is fool's gold. I've been saying that for a while.

Last year our defense was further away from Big Ten average than our offense... and clearly our offense was not good.

This year the defensive numbers look good but it's entirely a product of a low 2P% and a decent turnover rate. But lo and behold as soon as we play a team capable of taking care of the ball and making plays in the paint, we get completely gashed because we allow that PLUS the open three point looks we've allowed all season.

A low defensive field goal percentage has inflated his reputation but he's gotten those numbers off the backs of the joke non-conference schedule instead of any particular thing the defense does well.
 
Agreed-------it takes time to figure out rotations when you have a bunch of similar players. I'm a believer in 8 man rotations 9 tops but # 9 is going to get limited minutes depending on the opponent.

I think Coach P is still trying to figure out who the are the 5 who play best together----not who are the best 5 players. Baker and Johnson are definite along with Harper----the other 2 are still kinda gray at this point.
 
We lost the game early when Myles got the second foul and St Bonnie drove the lane 4 or 5 times in a row for buckets. We have no answer in the middle defensively when he is out.

Pike’s time management down the end was worse than horrible. It was brain dead. And it was not the first time. He doesn’t seem to grasp how few possessions are guaranteed when there is say, 1:30 left in the game and you don’t have the ball. How do you catch up down 7 when you are only guaranteed one or two more possessions? You lengthen the game by fouling. His apparent inability to understand clock management has been the one thing that has concerned me about him since he got here. Can he not do simple math?
 
Pikiell's defensive reputation is fool's gold. I've been saying that for a while.

Last year our defense was further away from Big Ten average than our offense... and clearly our offense was not good.

This year the defensive numbers look good but it's entirely a product of a low 2P% and a decent turnover rate. But lo and behold as soon as we play a team capable of taking care of the ball and making plays in the paint, we get completely gashed because we allow that PLUS the open three point looks we've allowed all season.

A low defensive field goal percentage has inflated his reputation but he's gotten those numbers off the backs of the joke non-conference schedule instead of any particular thing the defense does well.

We help on ball too much leaving good shooters get open.
 
This forum makes me sad and reminds me what being an RU fan can put you through...hopefully Pike rectifies it soon because I need a break from that “other” forum room...which has been so down trodden for so long.
:Sad:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I did mention them...in the three guards section where they are inconsistent..today both were MIA in this game specifically. Thats my point, we are relying on our guards and they are not delivering.

Sorry none by name and I still think of Geo and Caleb as the guards and Harper and Mathis more as small forwards.
 
Interesting minutes distribution last night. Myles-17 Harper-19 and Montez -20. Young gets 28 and while he missed too many FT's he had 8 assists and only one TO. Caleb got nearly 30 minutes and appeared to play a pretty solid game although he had 4 TO's.

Seems to me the issues with the team have not changed over the four game stretch. Poor defense particularly guarding the 3, inconsistent shooting and subpar FT shooting.

We haven't played a murderer row schedule by any stretch and should not be losing in this manner to a mid level at best A-10 team.
 
You can't have 4 TO's and play a solid game unless your putting up mid to high 20's PPG.
 
Interesting minutes distribution last night. Myles-17 Harper-19 and Montez -20. Young gets 28 and while he missed too many FT's he had 8 assists and only one TO. Caleb got nearly 30 minutes and appeared to play a pretty solid game although he had 4 TO's.

Seems to me the issues with the team have not changed over the four game stretch. Poor defense particularly guarding the 3, inconsistent shooting and subpar FT shooting.

We haven't played a murderer row schedule by any stretch and should not be losing in this manner to a mid level at best A-10 team.

Preparing for the season by playing the Spanish Washington Generals and this cupcake schedule only prepares you to play against bad competition...and we aren’t even doing that well. This team needs to gets its ass kicked to learn what it takes to win. This “baby steps” mentality is BS. It’s a loser mentality.
 
Agreed-------it takes time to figure out rotations when you have a bunch of similar players. I'm a believer in 8 man rotations 9 tops but # 9 is going to get limited minutes depending on the opponent.

I think Coach P is still trying to figure out who the are the 5 who play best together----not who are the best 5 players. Baker and Johnson are definite along with Harper----the other 2 are still kinda gray at this point.
Johnson/Yeboah/Harper/Baker/McConnell
 
  • Like
Reactions: Peteyd
We lost the game early when Myles got the second foul and St Bonnie drove the lane 4 or 5 times in a row for buckets. We have no answer in the middle defensively when he is out.

Pike’s time management down the end was worse than horrible. It was brain dead. And it was not the first time. He doesn’t seem to grasp how few possessions are guaranteed when there is say, 1:30 left in the game and you don’t have the ball. How do you catch up down 7 when you are only guaranteed one or two more possessions? You lengthen the game by fouling. His apparent inability to understand clock management has been the one thing that has concerned me about him since he got here. Can he not do simple math?
Also pulling Johnson with two minutes left while he was shining. We went small and what do you know we gave up a key offensive rebound that HIT THE FLOOR in the final stretch. That was the dagger.

Steve's substitution patterns are maddening.
 
Preparing for the season by playing the Spanish Washington Generals and this cupcake schedule only prepares you to play against bad competition...and we aren’t even doing that well. This team needs to gets its ass kicked to learn what it takes to win. This “baby steps” mentality is BS. It’s a loser mentality.

Playing bottom feeders at home leads this team to bad habits and a false comfort zone
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mr Magoo and kcg88
We lost the game early when Myles got the second foul and St Bonnie drove the lane 4 or 5 times in a row for buckets. We have no answer in the middle defensively when he is out.

Pike’s time management down the end was worse than horrible. It was brain dead. And it was not the first time. He doesn’t seem to grasp how few possessions are guaranteed when there is say, 1:30 left in the game and you don’t have the ball. How do you catch up down 7 when you are only guaranteed one or two more possessions? You lengthen the game by fouling. His apparent inability to understand clock management has been the one thing that has concerned me about him since he got here. Can he not do simple math?

RE: Johnson. Most people knew this would be an issue this season but we heard that there was "too much depth" up front...lol. Shaq is a big man who plays small and Doucoure is no better than two seasons ago. The problem is that we couldn't bring in another big man just like we couldn't bring in another PG last season. We're saving scholarships and then having trouble filling them for immediate needs.

RE: game time coaching and substitutions. It's often been bizarre.
 
its almost as if some posters just say oh that will not be a problem because they are afraid to say anything about Pike's recruiting. Doucoure is a miss.......and its a huge problem. I said it off season and his lack of time this year is not a good indicator. I dont like players redshirting like what happened last year because now we are stuck him for 3 years. Not to mention as a guard, Kiss is a miss beyond belief. Carter is servicable but unfortunately we are going to need more than servicable. The bottom line is the recruiting needs to pick up. No replacement at the 4 thus far and no backup for Myles. Its hard to move forward when you are missing such vital pieces and believe me once Big 10 play starts the foul trouble will become an issue for Myles and Shaq
 
talk about blowing with the wind--the inconsistency and "expert" opinion after a loss (or 3 games) about the coach and players is not reasonable or fair--same "experts" had players and the coach as all stars are now attacking them"--sore/bad losers--same complainers---and cry babies after a loss--the diatribe changes constantly
 
talk about blowing with the wind--the inconsistency and "expert" opinion after a loss (or 3 games) about the coach and players is not reasonable or fair--same "experts" had players and the coach as all stars are now attacking them"--sore/bad losers--same complainers---and cry babies after a loss--the diatribe changes constantly

If you can’t see the worrisome trends in the first four games, I don’t know what to tell you.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT