GAME 4 Temple: It's going to take some time this time

[RUChoppin]

For all of those who comment about Mulcahy not getting it done on offense, this game is what our offense can look like without him. He is the straw that stirs the drink, imo.

Omoruyi wasn't getting the ball where he needed it throughout much of the game, and Spencer wasn't getting set up either. Simpson was driving to the rim, but he wasn't forcing defenses to react in a way that opened up his teammates. Ball movement overall wasn't very good. Turnovers were also a big problem.

Those things very likely wouldn't have been as big of an issue with Mulcahy playing 30 minutes.

This game was a perfect storm. The lack of a floor general was apparent. The three-point shot wasn't falling. The free throws weren't falling. Take away any one of those three things, and we win.... But all three of them at once was too much to overcome.

 

[fluoxetine]

Imo were a mediocre team with them and a bad team without them. We made 1 three last night. Paul and caleb can shoot 3’s but its not what theyre known for.

Issue is, we have no offensive philosophy other than pick n roll. This was always my concern, what happens when our two guys who we've relied on to make things happen and break down defenses graduate? Theres just too many question marks with this team. I had us 8-12 in B1G and 8-3 OOC for 16-15 overall.

Currently ranked #11 in defense in both Kenpom and Barttorvik and this is without Caleb.

 

[REDRICH65]

Looked like a pick-up team on a playground. Despite the injuries, not what I expected. Team depth is horrible too. Pikes 20-21 team had better reserve scoring. We could be looking at a sub 500 season

 

[fluoxetine]

Looked like a pick-up team on a playground. Despite the injuries, not what I expected. Team depth is horrible too. Pikes 20-21 team had better reserve scoring. We could be looking at a sub 500 season

Not sure if some of you guys have been watching the same teams I have for the last 5 years?

A Pikiell team looked bad on offense for a half? Time for a CNN Breaking News Alert! Our adjusted O was 90.0 in that game. We did worse 6 times last season, 3 times in 2021-22, and 5 times in 2020-21. And we were without two starters...

Pikiell teams win with defense. This team's defense is shaping up to be the best since 2019-20 (and possibly better than that with Caleb). We are talking elite defensive team here. That puts us anywhere between very good (if we can find some consistent offense - just decent, not amazing) to average (if we can't).

I mean we're obviously not going to win games if we do... whatever it was we were doing in the first half yesterday. But there's no reason to expect that to be the norm.

 

[Scarlet Blind]

Quick analysis of the stats, first 2, last 2,

With Paul, Cliff 4-10, 7-13, T 11-23
W/out Paul, Cliff 8-17, 9-17, T 17-34

With Paul, Hyatt 5-13, 5-7, T 9-20
W/out Paul, Hyatt 3-10, 4-8, T 7-18

With Paul, Mag 4-8, 2-5, T 6-13
W/out Paul, Mag 1-7, 3-5, T 4-12

With Paul, Cam 7-13, 6-10, 3pt 6-11, T 13-23
W/out Paul, Cam 3-9, 5-12, 3pt 1-8, T 8-21

Paul (27 min)4-8, (26 mins)1-6, 11 assists, 7 steals, 3TOs
56-20 On, 19-15 Off, 67-37 on, 21-13 off
(123-57) 53 minutes Paul on, (40-28) 27 minutes with Paul off
139-137 the last 2 games(1-1).

With Paul, Derek 3-9, 5-10, 3pt 1-3, T 8-19
W/out Paul, Derek 3-11, 1-11, 3pt 1-7, T 4-22

With Paul, FGs 31-72, 31-60, 39 asts, 21 TOs
W/out Paul, FGs 21-62, 23-60, 16 asts, 25 TOs

Derek, Cam 21-42, 7-14 with Paul
Derek, Cam 12-43, 2-15 no Paul

With Paul 8-20, 7-17 from 3, 15-37, 40.5%
W/Out Paul, 3-16, 1-16 from 3, 4-32, 12.5%

Cliff has stepped up as the lone captain standing but we are asking too much from Cam and Derek who have been here only a few months playing a role they don't normally play and their offensive game is suffering from it trying to be a distributor/run the offense.

 

[RUChoppin]

Quick analysis of the stats, first 2, last 2,

With Paul, Cliff 4-10, 7-13, T 11-23
W/out Paul, Cliff 8-17, 9-17, T 17-34

With Paul, Hyatt 5-13, 5-7, T 9-20
W/out Paul, Hyatt 3-10, 4-8, T 7-18

With Paul, Mag 4-8, 2-5, T 6-13
W/out Paul, Mag 1-7, 3-5, T 4-12

With Paul, Cam 7-13, 6-10, 3pt 6-11, T 13-23
W/out Paul, Cam 3-9, 5-12, 3pt 1-8, T 8-21

Paul (27 min)4-8, (26 mins)1-6, 11 assists, 7 steals, 3TOs
56-20 On, 19-15 Off, 67-37 on, 21-13 off
(123-57) 53 minutes Paul on, (40-28) 27 minutes with Paul off
139-137 the last 2 games(1-1).

With Paul, Derek 3-9, 5-10, 3pt 1-3, T 8-19
W/out Paul, Derek 3-11, 1-11, 3pt 1-7, T 4-22

With Paul, FGs 31-72, 31-60, 39 asts, 21 TOs
W/out Paul, FGs 21-62, 23-60, 16 asts, 25 TOs

Derek, Cam 21-42, 7-14 with Paul
Derek, Cam 12-43, 2-15 no Paul

With Paul 8-20, 7-17 from 3, 15-37, 40.5%
W/Out Paul, 3-16, 1-16 from 3, 4-32, 12.5%

Cliff has stepped up as the lone captain standing but we are asking too much from Cam and Derek who have been here only a few months playing a role they don't normally play and their offensive game is suffering from it trying to be a distributor/run the offense.

Spencer/Simpson have each been here for what feels like only 5 minutes, and asking them to manage the offense alone is a lot. Knowing where teammates will be in different situations, knowing how teammates will react/move when the defense reacts... that takes time and experience, and Mulcahy is very comfortable with it. As a PG, you also need to know how to force defenses to respond to you and how to exploit them, and Simpson just doesn't have the collegiate reps yet to really have a good feel for that.

Both will get better with more live game reps with the team, but we're going to struggle without Mulcahy/McConnell in the rotation.

 

[Scarlet Blind]

6'3 Derek & 6'2 Jalen vs UMass Lowell 2-8 25%(2-6,0-2) around the rim
and 0-6 0%(0-4,0-2) around the rim vs Temple yesterday.

Derek 6-20 around the rim, 2nd highest FG attempted behind Cliff more than 6'6 Hyatt or 6'7 Mag, and Jalen 1-5.

Cam, Hyatt, Cliff, Mag 15-20 75% around the rim yesterday. You make 4 of 6 66.6%, this game looks and plays out a lot differently.

 

[RUChoppin]

6'3 Derek & 6'2 Jalen vs UMass Lowell 2-8 25%(2-6,0-2) around the rim
and 0-6 0%(0-4,0-2) around the rim vs Temple yesterday.

Derek 6-20 around the rim, 2nd highest FG attempted behind Cliff more than 6'6 Hyatt or 6'7 Mag, and Jalen 1-5.

Cam, Hyatt, Cliff, Mag 15-20 75% around the rim yesterday. You make 4 of 6 66.6%, this game looks and plays out a lot differently.

Simpson was also trying to rely on talent/athleticism vs. his defender to get to the rim for contested layup attempts, resulting in blocks/misses. Mulcahy usually uses more craft to get the open look, either for himself or a teammate.

 

[FIJI'83]

Very good thread. My overall concern is lack of depth. If injuries begin to plague the starters who will need to play heavy minutes as the level of competition increases, the wheels will come off the wagon. Once PM and McConnell come back, we must get lucky by staying healthy.

 

[G- RUnit]

Temple is absolutely not a tournament team unless they get second in their conference. The AAC is garbage and they'll be lucky to get one team in after Houston (that'd be Memphis).

Please don’t start with the conference is garbage crap. They have some decent pieces.

 

[kcg88]

Please don’t start with the conference is garbage crap. They have some decent pieces.

They have Houston and Memphis (who lost to Saint Louis who got demolished by Maryland today).

Cincinnati lost to Northern Kentucky.

UCF lost to UNC Asheville.

Temple lost to Wagner.

Wichita State lost to Alcorn State.

SMU lost to Dayton and New Mexico (understandable but still)

Tulsa lost to Oregon State and Charlotte.

South Florida is 0-4 and three of them are Q4 losses.

 

[Loyal_2RU]

It's gonna take some time this time
To get myself in shape
I really fell out of line this time
I really missed the gate


Winning is always better than losing but sometimes you have to lose to learn how to win. RU has been getting by the sisters of the poor in their first 3 games and look impressive even without Caleb McConnell and even Paul being banged up. With both out tonight, it provided an interesting and probably needed challenge against Temple the first real competition RU would be facing this year. Who would fill the void? Can Cliff carry the team on his back and fill the leadership void? Can either one of Mag or Hyatt step their level up to what is needed and expected in their growth as upperclassmen? Is Derek Simpson ready in game 4 to produce under pressure? Can Cam provide what we expect him to provide as an upperclass transfer? Can any of the guy on the bench provide a spark?

Unfortunately the answer to all of these questions was basically no. I am going to start by saying, RU played a pretty solid 2nd half and showed incredible fight (more on that later). However I am going to give credit to the Temple coaching staff for having their team ready to play. Temple was much more battle tested than RU coming into this game and they could smell the shakiness of a RU team that was coming into this game without its point guard and best defensive player. Temple came out with intensity and punched RU in the mouth and RU could not recover until midway through the 2nd half. Predictably RU without any real leadership looked like deer in headlights in the first half. They must have turned it over about 10 times in the first 10 minutes. They compounded these problems by bricking everything on offense and some pretty pourous defense and a serious lack of effort in rebounding. Temple up 15 at half and they basically coasted the rest of the way. The lead got cut to 6 and Temple really came back to earth shooting wise but did just enough to hold on and by the time RU got it to 4, there was simply no time left. Credit the Owls, they were the better team at least for today, better coaching, better game prep, better executiion, better intensity. They deserved the victory

So without Paul and Caleb it is very hard to harshly criticize RU for the loss. Does RU win with Paul playing. Well for one I dont think the start would have been abysmal but some of the same offensive problems might remain. Cannot fault Cliff tonight....19 points, 11 boards, I do not think it was one of his best defensive performances but I would deflect any criticism away from him today. The big question for RU is who will replace the void left by the departure of Ron and Geo. Many have said on this board that Cam and Hyatt and Mag and Derek will provide this. I will exclude Derek from this critique (more on him later). Cam had 17 and 7 of them were at the line. He was 5-12 but a goose egg at 0-5. Seems like a solid game but I think in the first 25 minutes or so, Cam was a non factor and looked unathletic and slow compared to the Temple guards. His game today wasnt good enough, whether that is fair to him or not, this is the big boy league now, he was brought to replace Geo's production shooting the ball. But my focus concerns the play of Mag and Hyatt. If RU is to get back to the NCAA tourney, these two now as upperclassmen need to start producing in major ways. I do not think I am being unfairly harsh on either. They NEED to get better. Hyatt's numbers were not all that bad 4-8 fg. 5-5 ft 13 points, but he was 0-3 from 3 and had 4 turnovers and still getting the sense he is always good force a handful or shots or make a bad decision. Hyatt only had 3 rebounds and I got a sense that not just with him but Temple was just outhustling the entire RU team for those boards. There is still time for him, but this is a game he absolutely must step up in. Mag 3-5 and 9 points but was really bad early forcing things on both ends. He had 3 turnovers and while he came on late in the game with his defense the hole was already dug. Ron is gone. No one is coming off the bench to save Mag and Hyatt. They have to do it. Even when Paul and Caleb come back, Rutgers will need one of these guys to elevate their game. For RU to win tonight, one or both needed to step way up. Didnt happen.

Derek Simpson may have grown some wings with a 10-10 free throw shooting night vs UMass Lowell with some ice in his veins in crunch time but it was obvious the speed of the game and situation he was put in tonight, he was not ready. Yes its going to take some time for him. A dreadful 1-11 shooting night although he did get that one very late to cut it to 4. Derek is clearly the future and you can see the talent that is there. Still tonight is a great learning experience for him. I could remember Geo having some of these games way back. For the whole team itself tonight is not one of those burn the tape games. Its a game where lessons can be learned from the mistakes made early and some positives taking how RU showed some resiliency in adversity. Down 18 or 19, coming back to get it to 5-6 even as they still shot the ball poorly and without your two biggest floor leaders. There is something to be said for that. I think RU may have had only about 3 turnovers in the last 30 minutes after 10 in the first 10. I hope this group can learn something about the mental challenges to how you need to start a game. In some ways the game may have been lost in their lack of confidence from the opening tip. Valuing possessions...this game was winnable late. RU was lacking that leader to stick a landing tonight. Pikiell will get more out of a loss today than he would with a win I think.

The Pikiell wheel needs to spin at full strength. Take two out and it took a total regroup until deep in the end to finally settle down. Rutgers needs to get both back to hope to have any success. I am okay with tonights loss overall simply because of how they came back in the 2nd half and didnt pout and curl up in a ball. RU wasnt as good as they looked in their first 3 and not as bad as how they played in the first half. With the injuries and still the uncertainty of filling the void of Ron Harper plus trying to put years onto Derek Simpson in just a few games...


Its going to take some time this time,
But it's going to take some time this time
And I can't make demands
But, like the young trees in the winter time
I'll learn how to bend
After all the tears we've spent
How could we make amends?
So, it's one more round for experience
And I'm on the road again
And it's going to take some time this time
And I can't make demands
I'll learn how to bend

View embedded media

Nice write up.
This team needs to finish AT the rim, not near it.

If this game was horseshoes or hand grenades we win. Lots of almost in shots. Alas, it was basketball and we lost

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

For all of those who comment about Mulcahy not getting it done on offense, this game is what our offense can look like without him. He is the straw that stirs the drink, imo.

Omoruyi wasn't getting the ball where he needed it throughout much of the game, and Spencer wasn't getting set up either. Simpson was driving to the rim, but he wasn't forcing defenses to react in a way that opened up his teammates. Ball movement overall wasn't very good. Turnovers were also a big problem.

Those things very likely wouldn't have been as big of an issue with Mulcahy playing 30 minutes.

This game was a perfect storm. The lack of a floor general was apparent. The three-point shot wasn't falling. The free throws weren't falling. Take away any one of those three things, and we win.... But all three of them at once was too much to overcome.

Crystal clear now

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Simpson was also trying to rely on talent/athleticism vs. his defender to get to the rim for contested layup attempts, resulting in blocks/misses. Mulcahy usually uses more craft to get the open look, either for himself or a teammate.

Simpson so far is trying to finish everything. Mulcahy is looking to make a bounce pass. I’ll take a bounce pass to Mag with the defender on his back over Simpson flying from 14 feet from the basket every time.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Please don’t start with the conference is garbage crap. They have some decent pieces.

bart has a 14.6% chance of Temple making the NCAA tournament. I think that number is too high.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I've actually got the wrong song stuck in my head



It's gonna take a lotta love
To change the way things are
It's gonna take a lotta love
Or we won't get too far
So if you look in my direction
And we don't see eye to eye
My heart needs protection
And so do I

 

[bac2therac]

One of my favorite yacht rock/wbrw 1170 Am songs

 

[fluoxetine]

bart has a 14.6% chance of Temple making the NCAA tournament. I think that number is too high.

In general Bart is too certain that teams are or are not making the tournament. If he says 14.6% it's prob more than that imo.

 

[Kbee3]

I've actually got the wrong song stuck in my head

View embedded media

It's gonna take a lotta love
To change the way things are
It's gonna take a lotta love
Or we won't get too far
So if you look in my direction
And we don't see eye to eye
My heart needs protection
And so do I

Neil Young's version is much better IMO.
Yes....he wrote the tune.

 

[4theknights]

The issue is how do we replace Harper’s three level scoring. A combo of an improved Hyatt/Mag? It would seem it’s more likely to be better defense and rebounding, more of
what we saw in the 2H vs Temple. Bottom line replacing Harper’s production will be the
challenge. Time will tell if the existing players can do it or was getting a portal replacement similar to Cam for Geo. We need to get back Caleb/Paul to see how good overall we can be.

 

[BoogieKnight]

Not sure if some of you guys have been watching the same teams I have for the last 5 years?

A Pikiell team looked bad on offense for a half? Time for a CNN Breaking News Alert! Our adjusted O was 90.0 in that game. We did worse 6 times last season, 3 times in 2021-22, and 5 times in 2020-21. And we were without two starters...

Pikiell teams win with defense. This team's defense is shaping up to be the best since 2019-20 (and possibly better than that with Caleb). We are talking elite defensive team here. That puts us anywhere between very good (if we can find some consistent offense - just decent, not amazing) to average (if we can't).

I mean we're obviously not going to win games if we do... whatever it was we were doing in the first half yesterday. But there's no reason to expect that to be the norm.

This. I'm not worried in the least. It's not even Thanksgiving. So we played like s#it in some early season OOC game on the road without two starters. It happens.

 

[RUTrack94]

Looking like TU will be a bad loss … they are 2-4 with recent losses to St. John’s and Richmond (Richmond game at home).

Make it up by beating Miami on the road.

 

[fatsam98]

Wasn't Richmond at Barclays? Doesn't really change your point though. Hopefully we can redeem ourselves at Miami who don't exactly look overwhelming early on.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

What happened to GAME 5

 

[cubuffsdoug]

Looking like TU will be a bad loss … they are 2-4 with recent losses to St. John’s and Richmond (Richmond game at home).

Make it up by beating Miami on the road.

Did you consider Rutgers went into the game down 2 starters? That's major, considering Temple has its most important players available to play. Even Temple fans acknowledged the situation and realized the results would likely differ if one or both players played.

 

[RUChoppin]

Looking like TU will be a bad loss … they are 2-4 with recent losses to St. John’s and Richmond (Richmond game at home).

Make it up by beating Miami on the road.

Both SJU and Richmond were Neutral site games. SJU isn't a bad loss for them. Richmond doesn't look great. Still, they largely front-loaded their schedule and have an easier way the rest of the season outside of Houston, Memphis, and Mississippi.

Dunn was a complete no-show for the Owls vs. Richmond, and his hot streak over their first 3 games looks like it may have been a fluke. Averaged 29.3 pts in 40 min/g over the first three, and has averaged 6.3 pts in 26 min/g over the next three.

 

[bac2therac]

Temple will not be making the NCAA tournament

 

[bac2therac]

What happened to GAME 5

Its going to take some time this time

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Its going to take some time this time

you were too busy trying to get Taylor Swift tickets

 

[bac2therac]

you were too busy trying to get Taylor Swift tickets

I wish, im starting to get old

 

[Scarlet Blind]

When it's all said and done, Temple will not be a bad loss, Wagner is one of the favorite to win the NEC again, the other 5 opponents are 4 P6 opponents, Nova, Vandy, Rutgers, SJU and A10, Richmond a top 10 conference team that got an auto bid last year. Drexel, La Salle, VCU, St Joes, Penn, Mississippi is a pretty strong non conference schedule and the AAC conference is in the next 4 conferences too with WCC, MWC, and A10. Temple has talent to go on a winning stretch, like 4 of 5 or 5 of 6 this year.

 

[Degaz-RU]

If Temple can stay under 100 in the NET rankings, it's just a Quad 2 loss (since it was neutral site) and won't hurt us that much.

And, yeah, where's the GAME 5 recap, bac? People rely on your recaps!! 😁

 

[bac2therac]

Look again