Greg Schiano's first Five Years- Year 1- Four Blowouts

[Knight Shift]

Captain obvious here. But a review of past history is in order.

Frustration is understandable. But crapping all over Coach Ash and/or the current players is not productive. It's splitting the fanbase.

2001- RU went 2-9. Lost to Miami 61-0; lost to Virginia Tech 50-0; lost to WVU 80-7; lost to mediocre Pitt 42-0.

2002 was worse in W-L at 1-11, but only two blowouts. Cubit leaves as OC.

2003 - Greg stabilized the program at 5-7 with no blowouts. Versteeg takes over as OC

2004- RU went 4-7, with no blowouts, but that loss to UNH.

2005- breakthrough year at 7-5 and a bowl bid.

We all know what happened after that.

Remain calm.

 

[RUSK97]

Are you saying we can expect to say goodbye to DM by year two?

 

[JQRU91]

So you're saying the program's gone back to Shea Era levels of ineptitude?

 

[ScarletCrimson]

no way Ash should be allowed to coast on matching early Schiano years- are you kidding me?

 

[Knight Shift]

Are you saying we can expect to say goodbye to DM by year two?

No. Just providing a review on how things evolved under Schiano. Would expect some staff changes over the first few years.

So you're saying the program's gone back to Shea Era levels of ineptitude?

No.

 

[Debtbubble]

Give this guy and Schiano the exact same team and Schiano would beat him 9 out of 10 times.

Next question.

 

[CNJKnight]

no way Ash should be allowed to coast on matching early Schiano years- are you kidding me?

WHy not? His level of talent is about equal to what Schiano inherited and we are in a MUCH BIGGER AND BETTER CONFERENCE than Schiano ever had. Some times you guys just dont look at the overall picture.

 

[RUBand]

no way Ash should be allowed to coast on matching early Schiano years- are you kidding me?

I agree, Schiano had a much tougher schedule

 

[Debtbubble]

2001 BE

#1 Miami (FL) $# 7 – 0 12 – 0
#14 Syracuse 6 – 1 10 – 3
#21 Boston College 4 – 3 8 – 4
#18 Virginia Tech

 

[CNJKnight]

2001 BE

#1 Miami (FL) $# 7 – 0 12 – 0
#14 Syracuse 6 – 1 10 – 3
#21 Boston College 4 – 3 8 – 4
#18 Virginia Tech

OSU #2
UM #3
UW #5
PSU #8

Yea not a tough schedule at all.....All top 10....

 

[tico brown]

Captain obvious here. But a review of past history is in order.

Frustration is understandable. But crapping all over Coach Ash and/or the current players is not productive. It's splitting the fanbase.

2001- RU went 2-9. Lost to Miami 61-0; lost to Virginia Tech 50-0; lost to WVU 80-7; lost to mediocre Pitt 42-0.

2002 was worse in W-L at 1-11, but only two blowouts. Cubit leaves as OC.

2003 - Greg stabilized the program at 5-7 with no blowouts. Versteeg takes over as OC

2004- RU went 4-7, with no blowouts, but that loss to UNH.

2005- breakthrough year at 7-5 and a bowl bid.

We all know what happened after that.

Remain calm.

How dare you bring up legit stats to back up your argument????

 

[waretown]

Captain obvious here. But a review of past history is in order.

Frustration is understandable. But crapping all over Coach Ash and/or the current players is not productive. It's splitting the fanbase.

2001- RU went 2-9. Lost to Miami 61-0; lost to Virginia Tech 50-0; lost to WVU 80-7; lost to mediocre Pitt 42-0.

2002 was worse in W-L at 1-11, but only two blowouts. Cubit leaves as OC.

2003 - Greg stabilized the program at 5-7 with no blowouts. Versteeg takes over as OC

2004- RU went 4-7, with no blowouts, but that loss to UNH.

2005- breakthrough year at 7-5 and a bowl bid.

We all know what happened after that.

Remain calm.

apples and oranges, cant compare, 2 different times. its like saying the 61 yankees were better than the 27 yankees. this is just another excuse to justify shabby coaching

 

[bethlehemfan]

no it's not like that at all.

 

[Knight Shift]

apples and oranges, cant compare, 2 different times. its like saying the 61 yankees were better than the 27 yankees. this is just another excuse to justify shabby coaching

Fine. Provide your specific suggestion/suggestions to fix what you call "shabby" coaching. Include the position (HC, DC, OC or other) and what you would do if you were in charge.

Also, what were your expectations going into this year?

 

[MADHAT1]

Give this guy and Schiano the exact same team and Schiano would beat him 9 out of 10 times.

Next question.

Is that the Schiano of 2001 or the Greg of 2006 .
I like Schiano, but think when he started out he did make a lot of game-day mistakes.
Also think Cupit might have been a better for someone starting out as a HC with more defensive knowledge than on the O side.
Cupit came from Missouri where he was their OC after being Western Michigan's OC for the 2 years before that.
Mehringer came to RU after being Houston's WR coach in 2015. The year before that was spent as James Madison's co:OC
2013 he was a GA at OSU.
Not the type of experience that Ash might be needing in his first year as HC .

So before I would claim one is better, the circumstances would need to be even and a lot of us RU fans are forgetting our moaning and groaning after Rutgers lost in Schiano's first two seasons.

 

[RU848789]

WHy not? His level of talent is about equal to what Schiano inherited and we are in a MUCH BIGGER AND BETTER CONFERENCE than Schiano ever had. Some times you guys just dont look at the overall picture.

I don't have the time or inclination to review how bare the cupboard was for Schiano vs. Ash, but my recollection was that it was commonly known that what Schiano inherited was mid level 1AA talent from the worst coach ever at Rutgers.

I know Flood's recruiting was mediocre to bad, but I have a hard time believing it was Shea-like. And the BE back then was pretty damn good with multiple ranked teams; perhaps a tad below the current B1G, but not an easy conference by any stretch.

In my opinion, Ash clearly underperformed as a coach this year; however, I do believe he can get it done here, although it's going to be a tough climb. He must hold this very good recruiting class mostly together, though, in order to have that chance.

 

[devoted2ru]

OSU #2
UM #3
UW #5
PSU #8

Yea not a tough schedule at all.....All top 10....

CNJ, by posting real, factual information you're potentially going to confuse some people on here, but I'm sure they'll get around that by just letting it slide right by 'em, or by simply ignoring it, but thumbs up for giving it a shot anyway. [thumb2]:football:

 

[vkj91]

Give this guy and Schiano the exact same team and Schiano would beat him 9 out of 10 times.

Next question.

I'm assuming you didn't watch many games coached by Schiano.

 

[Knight Shift]

I don't have the time or inclination to review how bare the cupboard was for Schiano vs. Ash, but my recollection was that it was commonly known that what Schiano inherited was mid level 1AA talent from the worst coach ever at Rutgers.

I know Flood's recruiting was mediocre to bad, but I have a hard time believing it was Shea-like. And the BE back then was pretty damn good with multiple ranked teams; perhaps a tad below the current B1G, but not an easy conference by any stretch.

In my opinion, Ash clearly underperformed as a coach this year; however, I do believe he can get it done here, although it's going to be a tough climb. He must hold this very good recruiting class mostly together, though, in order to have that chance.

I too don't have the memory nor do I particularly care about the talent level Schiano inherited to compare it to the talent Ash inherited.

I somewhat agree that Ash underperformed, but with the installation of new offensive and defensive schemes and the lack of players specifically recruited to fit the offensive scheme coupled with game day coaching experience of his OC and lack of any senior offensive coach would be expected to lead to some mistakes or questionable calls. The one area he could have done much better was identifying the punting/kicking issues earlier on (or perhaps it was too late), and he better get upgrades in both of those areas because the kicking and punting is giving the offense and defense a huge field position handicap.

But this will be part of Ash's learning and growing process as a new head coach. For the last few years, he had it fairly easy because he had superior talent to work with at Ohio State compared to his peers in the conference.

 

[Debtbubble]

I saw him win 4 bowl games in a row. How long before this guy gets to a bowl game at RU?

Left Flood with maybe the best team and recruiting class the school has ever had.

Team wasn't even close to this bad last year, now they can't even get a first down?

It's not the players.

 

[KevH]

So you're saying the program's gone back to Shea Era levels of ineptitude?

None of us has a crystal ball, but even though the program is in a better state overall, it could feel very much like the Shea years due to the fact that we'll be playing a meat grinder of a schedule every year... a notch or three above the schedule we played back then. Again, progress may not be measured in Ws and Ls until year three minimum, IMO.

 

[ATIOH]

CNJ, by posting real, factual information you're potentially going to confuse some people on here, but I'm sure they'll get around that by just letting it slide right by 'em, or by simply ignoring it, but thumbs up for giving it a shot anyway. [thumb2]:football:

First, he's comparing final vs. in-season rankings. At a minimum, OSU or Michigan should drop out of the top five after they play each other this Saturday. Va Tech got as high as #5 during 2001.

Second, look a little deeper. I'm partial to the 2002 Canes myself, but every reasonable college football fan will have the '01 team on their short list of greatest teams ever. Do you think any team on our schedule compares to those Canes? Sean Taylor, Kellen Winslow, Antrelle Rolle, McGahee, etc, barely made it on the field because guys like Ed Reed, Clinton Portis, and Shockey were starting. 38 players were eventually drafted.

Third, it's rarely mentioned, but as the only squad that can call themselves NYC's team, we were uniquely affected by September 11th.

We've played a very tough schedule this year, but don't think for a second that the Big East was the Big Least in 2001.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

So you're saying the program's gone back to Shea Era levels of ineptitude?

While the programs on field play right now is at Shea levels of ineptitude, that is a function of the players on the field and shows just how much Flood drained the program of talent. Remember even last years recruiting class is a majority of Floods.
coach Ash deserves a few years to get the program back on its feet. He has some talented and very talented players coming in. Drew Mehringer I think is a good OC but he is in desperate need of a decent QB who can run his system and good running backs and recievers. Coach Ash has done a great job with the defense which is the strong part of this team. In short, Coach Ash needs to rebuild the entire team. Where Coach Ash is far ahead is in the areas of the facilities as when Greg Schiano took over the program. Even then, you have to continually to evolve to keep up with the premier programs like Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama, etc. I think coach ash will turn this around.

 

[kennyschiano]

So you're saying the program's gone back to Shea Era levels of ineptitude?

relative to the competition it has

 

[rulaw87]

Who can forget Schiano's flawless game day coaching. Such gems as "the Jabu package." Leonard up the middle again and again and again and again.... His brilliant quarterback decisions that we loved so much. He was not a great game day coach. He grew into the position and got better as time went on like many young head coaches. PJ Fleck was 1-11 just 3 years ago in his first year at Western Michigan. The culture and the system are changing for the better. The program is being fixed from the inside out and it may not show right away. We have a very good recruiting class right now, better than Flood could ever get out of Jersey and IF they sign, that is the next step in the process.

 

[JQRU91]

While the programs on field play right now is at Shea levels of ineptitude, that is a function of the players on the field and shows just how much Flood drained the program of talent. Remember even last years recruiting class is a majority of Floods.
coach Ash deserves a few years to get the program back on its feet. He has some talented and very talented players coming in. Drew Mehringer I think is a good OC but he is in desperate need of a decent QB who can run his system and good running backs and recievers. Coach Ash has done a great job with the defense which is the strong part of this team. In short, Coach Ash needs to rebuild the entire team. Where Coach Ash is far ahead is in the areas of the facilities as when Greg Schiano took over the program. Even then, you have to continually to evolve to keep up with the premier programs like Ohio State, Michigan, Alabama, etc. I think coach ash will turn this around.

I think Ash will have the defense in good shape after a few solid recruiting classes, but I'm having some doubts about Mehringer and the offense.

 

[rulaw87]

One more thing. The kids that have verbally committed know better than most fans what is going on within the program. If they see what is going on on the field (which is ugly as it gets) and don't all bolt then that speaks volumes to me about this coaching staff and what the future holds. We sit in the stands and see only the bad offense and the ultimate results. The recruits see it all and have better knowledge certainly than me as to the rebuilding process going on.

 

[beaced]

Fine. Provide your specific suggestion/suggestions to fix what you call "shabby" coaching. Include the position (HC, DC, OC or other) and what you would do if you were in charge.

Also, what were your expectations going into this year?

Better than the results.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Captain obvious here. But a review of past history is in order.

Frustration is understandable. But crapping all over Coach Ash and/or the current players is not productive. It's splitting the fanbase.

2001- RU went 2-9. Lost to Miami 61-0; lost to Virginia Tech 50-0; lost to WVU 80-7; lost to mediocre Pitt 42-0.

2002 was worse in W-L at 1-11, but only two blowouts. Cubit leaves as OC.

2003 - Greg stabilized the program at 5-7 with no blowouts. Versteeg takes over as OC

2004- RU went 4-7, with no blowouts, but that loss to UNH.

2005- breakthrough year at 7-5 and a bowl bid.

We all know what happened after that.

Remain calm.

Yeah, except he inherited the worst program in the BCS that had god awful facilities, never won a bowl game, and had barely any fans.

Ash inherited a top 40 program with an awful season before he came on and managed to somehow have an even more awful season the next.

 

[newell138]

Yeah, except he inherited the worst program in the BCS that had god awful facilities, never won a bowl game, and had barely any fans.

Ash inherited a top 40 program with an awful season before he came on and managed to somehow have an even more awful season the next.

Flood was living on Greg's recruiting and he just kept getting worse every year, not better. The cupboard is bare now. Name any of our starters that would be starting at PSU or OSU or Michigan. The one player that would be got hurt. We played 4 top 10 teams this year, who else has done that? Other than MSU at least we were competitive with the rest of the games. People are forgetting how bad Greg's first few years were. If Ash holds this class together he will be fine.

 

[WhiteBus]

So you're saying the program's gone back to Shea Era levels of ineptitude?

No he is saying the talent left after Flood is equivalent as with Shea' s departure. There is not enough talent for the new coaches to do anything. Ash need to get his players in here and start performing.

 

[BeantownKnight]

For the last few weeks, I too was wondering if, in essence, we inherited Greg 2.0 (good to see that I'm not alone). And, honestly, I can't tell if that's a good thing or a bad thing. Probably, it's both. There will be one or two grueling years at the beginning, then - slowly - as progress is being made, we'll start seeing that both on the field and in the win-loss column.

The only issue is that we've been down this road before and I don't know if the fanbase has the patience (or stomach) to go through it all over again. But, this is the hand we (as fans) have been dealt. So, you can take the lumps now and tell yourself exactly what you told yourself 6 or even 12 months ago -- that this is a rebuilding project and that Top 25 ranking won't come quickly. It'll take a couple of years.

I do see one positive that Ash has over Greg: recruiting (at least, so far). As of right now, Ash has a nice recruiting class going. At this time in Greg's tenure, he didn't have anything close. That didn't come for several years.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

I agree, Schiano had a much tougher schedule

Sagarin has our SOS at 11th nationally. We have played the (current AP) #'s 2,3, 6, and 8. Schianos schedule was NOT "tougher" let alone "much tougher." Here are the schedule rankings, from Sagarin, for Greg's first 6 seasons:

2001 - 75th
2002 - 51st
2003 - 66th
2004 - 68th
2005 - 80th
2006 - 58th

...so let's PLEASE end this "myth" about Greg having faced "tougher schedules." It's NOT EVEN CLOSE everybody. Thanks.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin-archive.htm

 

[cubuffsdoug]

no way Ash should be allowed to coast on matching early Schiano years- are you kidding me?

Different time and different expectations. Rutgers isn't down like they were with Shea. Flood didn't help matter with recruiting, but he wasn't as bad.

 

[rufancoe00]

The talent while not tio 25 material is heads and shoulders above 2001. this season is a result of poor coaching

 

[G- RUnit]

Schiano followed this:
2-9
0-11
5-6
1-10
3-8

Ash followed this :
9-4
6-7
8-5
4-8

Ash has it far more easier than Schiano.
The No Talent excuse must stop. Already have seen this Staff completey botch and misuse Martin, Hicks and Goodwin.
And if you buy the No Talent excuse, then where is the improvement with what you have?

 

[Knight Shift]

Schiano followed this:
2-9
0-11
5-6
1-10
3-8

Ash followed this :
9-4
6-7
8-5
4-8

Ash has it far more easier than Schiano.
The No Talent excuse must stop. Already have seen this Staff completey botch and misuse Martin, Hicks and Goodwin.
And if you buy the No Talent excuse, then where is the improvement with what you have?

Disagree with almost everything you said.
Talent-none? No, but it was declining as Schiano's players graduated or otherwise left the program--depth of talent at important positions really declined, even as Flood's own recruits left the program. The slide was evident in 2015 and 2016 was the start of a deeper decline.
Bothched and misused Martin, Hicks and Goodwin? No. Martin has clearly been hurt and it has been documented. Hicks needed to work on his blocking. Goodwin was more than servieable and had good games, plus he is the best receiver out of the three-something key for the new offense.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Schiano followed this:
\
The No Talent excuse must stop. Already have seen this Staff completey botch and misuse Martin, Hicks and Goodwin.
And if you buy the No Talent excuse, then where is the improvement with what you have?

Hicks - CAN'T RUN BLOCK
Martin - wasn't 100% until this week

..and the "talent" thing isn't an excuse it's a FACT.

...get over it.

 

[G- RUnit]

Hicks has talent and was a bowl game MVP. Martin has been healthy and mysteriously not playing. Goodwin is fine. All could play on many a B1G team and blows away the "No talent" narrative. Coaching was not flexible enough to use or recognize what they had. To compare what Ash inherited to what Schiano inherited is ridiculous. Schiano had it far worse. Get over the false narrative.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

Hicks has talent and was a bowl game MVP. Martin has been healthy and mysteriously not playing. Goodwin is fine. All could play on many a B1G team and blows away the "No talent" narrative. Coaching was not flexible enough to use or recognize what they had. To compare what Ash inherited to what Schiano inherited is ridiculous. Schiano had it far worse.

Again...Hicks CAN'T PASS BLOCK...in an O where you're not using a FB, if the D knows Hicks can't pass block, then they know we're running the ball. If he's in there for a pass play then Gio is going to get creamed half the time.