Greg Schiano's first Five Years- Year 1- Four Blowouts

[RU-05]

The point is we are rebuilding, and if history is any guide (and there are other examples like Colorado, WMU, and others), things should turn around in years 3 and 4. Patience.

but the logic you are using is that because Schiano had a bad first season and was able to turn it around then Ash who has also had a bad first season will be able to turn it around.

Now the comparison shows it is possible to turn things around, but it does not show we are on a clear path towards better days.

Of coarse I could provide a ton of examples of coaches who had bad first seasons and then went on to never have a successful career.

We are still very much in the fingers crossed phase of the Ash era.

 

[Knight Shift]

Thank you. Also everybody seems to forget that we lost 80-7 to a WVU team that went 3-8 on the season.

I get some folks' angst over 4 large shutouts. It bothers me to some extent too. Hope I am not misquoting him, but I think @gef21 indicated there was a way to ease into the spread offense instead of diving into the deep end right away and flailing and drowning in several games. This is why I think it may be useful to get guidance from a more experienced offensive play caller to help out Mehringer.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

I get some folks' angst over 4 large shutouts. It bothers me to some extent too. Hope I am not misquoting him, but I think @gef21 indicated there was a way to ease into the spread offense instead of diving into the deep end right away and flailing and drowning in several games. This is why I think it may be useful to get guidance from a more experienced offensive play caller to help out Mehringer.

I've left in the 3rd quarter of 2 homes games this year. Trust me - everyone - I GET the frustration LOL!

 

[RU848789]

In 2001 we played 2 teams that finished ranked: Miami at 2 and VTech at 9. BC and 'Cuse were ranked, earlier in the season when we played, but not at season's end. This season, when all is said-and-done, we will likely have played 3 top 8'ish teams (OSU, Mich, Wash) and a top 15 (PSU). IMHO that's a HUGE difference in the top 4 teams each squad had to face.

You're misreading something. BE had 4 teams finish in the top 21 in 2001: Miami at #1, Cuse at #14, VT at #18, and BC at #21; UM/VT were 2/9 preseason. And this season's not over and we all know UM or OSU will lose at least one more game and PSU is not going to win the B1G if they play WI in the championship game (if they beat MSU) and WA could easily lose one more, so it may well be two top 10 teams and two top 15 teams, which would be pretty close to the BE in 2001.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-east/2001.html

 

[Knight Shift]

but the logic you are using is that because Schiano had a bad first season and was able to turn it around then Ash who has also had a bad first season will be able to turn it around.

Now the comparison shows it is possible to turn things around, but it does not show we are on a clear path towards better days.

Of coarse I could provide a ton of examples of coaches who had bad first seasons and then went on to never have a successful career.

We are still very much in the fingers crossed phase of the Ash era.

You are attributing incorrect logic to me.

Like Schiano, Ash had to do a 360 and tear down and rebuild the culture that had slipped terribly under Flood's lackadaisical leadership, evidenced by multiple off field incidents.

Like Schiano, Ash immediately took on major infrastructure projects and changes, including rebuilding the weight room and upgrading the Hale Center.

Ash had to overhaul our strength and conditioning program.

Ash also had to rebuild fractured recruiting relationships, this being the most important aspect of his work.

These four items alone are critical to having a solid foundation from which to build. The foundation was crumbling under Flood's leadership. Remember, Greg had a saying along the lines of "this house is built on a solid foundation?" That is what Ash is doing.

Is there a 100% guarantee he is going to succeed? Of course not. Would we have been better off charting the same path under Flood for a few more years? Of course not.

If Ash can notch three solid recruiting classes, I firmly believe that we will be in fine shape going forward. Three other critical pieces have been put in place as additional building blocks.

He has said all along that it was not going to be easy and it would take time to do this right. I believe he is living up to his words.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

You're misreading something. BE had 4 teams finish in the top 21 in 2001: Miami at #1, Cuse at #14, VT at #18, and BC at #21; UM/VT were 2/9 preseason. And this season's not over and we all know UM or OSU will lose at least one more game and PSU is not going to win the B1G if they play WI in the championship game (if they beat MSU) and WA could easily lose one more, so it may well be two top 10 teams and two top 15 teams, which would be pretty close to the BE in 2001.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-east/2001.html

You're right, my bad, was looking at Week 1 not final, I'll edit!

Miami 1
'Cuse 14
VTech 18
BC 21

..that's going to be quite the difference, IMHO, from this year's final rankings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_NCAA_Division_I-A_football_rankings

 

[Knight Shift]

You're misreading something. BE had 4 teams finish in the top 21 in 2001: Miami at #1, Cuse at #14, VT at #18, and BC at #21; UM/VT were 2/9 preseason. And this season's not over and we all know UM or OSU will lose at least one more game and PSU is not going to win the B1G if they play WI in the championship game (if they beat MSU) and WA could easily lose one more, so it may well be two top 10 teams and two top 15 teams, which would be pretty close to the BE in 2001.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/conferences/big-east/2001.html

You may be and are probably right, but the point of my original post (despite the title) was not a comparative analysis of 2001 versus 2016 in W-L and blowouts. My bad for obscuring my point. The point is that Schiano had to do a lot of other work to build a strong foundation, and it took 3-4 years to get there.

 

[RU-05]

The recruiting looks pretty good at this point, but much of that came before the season started, when he could tout his national championship. We will need to see how he recruits with a terrible first season under his belt.

And we also need to see if he can coach. Truthfully have you seen any on field evidence in this first season?

 

[Knight Shift]

The recruiting looks pretty good at this point, but much of that came before the season started, when he could tout his national championship. We will need to see how he recruits with a terrible first season under his belt.

And we also need to see if he can coach. Truthfully have you seen any on field evidence in this first season?

On defense, yes. Despite having linebackers with no experience, defensive play has improved. The play of DBs has improved dramatically--there have been lapses--but overall, they look good.

 

[RU-05]

On defense, yes. Despite having linebackers with no experience, defensive play has improved. The play of DBs has improved dramatically--there have been lapses--but overall, they look good.

I do agree that the more aggressive play of the secondary is a welcome change.

But do I see much evidence of players that have been coached up? A few examples I guess. And of that few, most of those are on D.

 

[Knight Shift]

I do agree that the more aggressive play of the secondary is a welcome change.

But do I see much evidence of players that have been coached up? A few examples I guess. And of that few, most of those are on D.

How about Tariq Cole on OL? Gio? Jawuan Harris? Justin Goodwin? Before getting injured, Janarion Grant made huge strides as WR compared to years past.
On D, there are Maddox-Williams, Greg Jones, Bateky, Damon Hayes, and a few others I am not remembering at the moment.

 

[gef21]

I get some folks' angst over 4 large shutouts. It bothers me to some extent too. Hope I am not misquoting him, but I think @gef21 indicated there was a way to ease into the spread offense instead of diving into the deep end right away and flailing and drowning in several games. This is why I think it may be useful to get guidance from a more experienced offensive play caller to help out Mehringer.

We easily could have run a system between the pro set and the power spread set. You can do whatever you want in football.

 

[76Scarlet]

Captain obvious here. But a review of past history is in order.

Frustration is understandable. But crapping all over Coach Ash and/or the current players is not productive. It's splitting the fanbase.

2001- RU went 2-9. Lost to Miami 61-0; lost to Virginia Tech 50-0; lost to WVU 80-7; lost to mediocre Pitt 42-0.

2002 was worse in W-L at 1-11, but only two blowouts. Cubit leaves as OC.

2003 - Greg stabilized the program at 5-7 with no blowouts. Versteeg takes over as OC

2004- RU went 4-7, with no blowouts, but that loss to UNH.

2005- breakthrough year at 7-5 and a bowl bid.

We all know what happened after that.

Remain calm.

Thanks for the post. I had forgotten specifically what the games/scores actually were. I knew they were really bad for the first few years. Hopefully Ash can turn it around like Schiano. Obviously I just worry about the impact on recruiting. Interesting that the scores of Schiano's first year were similar to this year in that 3 of the blowouts were to very good teams and to 1 that was mediocre.

 

[Knight Shift]

Thanks for the post. I had forgotten specifically what the games/scores actually were. I knew they were really bad for the first few years. Hopefully Ash can turn it around like Schiano. Obviously I just worry about the impact on recruiting. Interesting that the scores of Schiano's first year were similar to this year in that 3 of the blowouts were to very good teams and to 1 that was mediocre.

Not ready to say MSU is/was mediocre. They are on fire right now and found their old self. Would not be surprised (and will be ecstatic) if they beat Penn State.

 

[76Scarlet]

Not ready to say MSU is/was mediocre. They are on fire right now and found their old self. Would not be surprised (and will be ecstatic) if they beat Penn State.

Agree about MSU. Seem to be much better than they looked in previous games.

 

[Knight Shift]

Agree about MSU. Seem to be much better than they looked in previous games.

As with everything else year, we got the wrong MSU at the wrong time.
Maybe we will get lucky with Maryland? Some people here are lauding Maryland like they had major accomplishments. Yeah, they beat MSU. But they got beat bad by Minnesota. And I don't see beating Purdue as a major accomplishment.

Remember, last year, Maryland was 2-9 going into our last game with them, and they eeked out the win in R house. Hope we can return the favor this year and save a little bit of face for this season.

 

[rubaseball78]

Actually, you selectively misquoted the guy and then quoted your own misquote. He said:



Program means all-encompassing, not just the 2015 team. The easiest way to explain it is Michigan State. They're having a terrible year, but they're 100% a top 40 program. Beyond coaches and players, they have decent facilities, good administration, a history of winning, and strong fan support based on the attendance we saw for a 2-7 team playing another 2-7 team.

If Alabama went 0-12 next year, they'd still be a top 10 program. It would take multiple years of mediocrity to change that.

Edit: the top 70 programs in the country would probably be all of the P5, plus the best of the G5. WMU is having a better year, but they don't have a better program than say LSU or Stanford.

The implication in that statement is that Ash inherited a top 40 program. I said we were top 80 but someone else pointed out we were actually 102, or not even top 100. So concluding Ash should have won this year because he was inheriting a top 40 team is completely wrong. Since 20-30% of the team turns over every year, reaching to prior years to justify the statement is nonsense.

 

[Knight Shift]

The implication in that statement is that Ash inherited a top 40 program. I said we were top 80 but someone else pointed out we were actually 102, or not even top 100. So concluding Ash should have won this year because he was inheriting a top 40 team is completely wrong. Since 20-30% of the team turns over every year, reaching to prior years to justify the statement is nonsense.

Plus the loss of our two greatest playmakers in Carroo and Grant can't be overstated. Throw in the loss of our best OL player, Lumpkin, and the loss of our senior linebacking corps (Longa, Gause and Lewis), and q quick decline in on field production is understandable. This is not a commentary on the current players on offense of defense. But we were playing freshmen at linebacker, and it was quite obvious that we would miss Carroo's production, and then losing Grant in game 4 was devastating.

 

[bethlehemfan]

Not only wrong. It's outrageous, egregious and preposterous!

 

[rubaseball78]

You're missing the point again. If necessary, reread my post. The keyword is program, not team.

Just by being in the B1G, we would never be out of the top 100. This has nothing to do with wins and losses. I'm NOT arguing Ash should have won more.

We were also undefeated in 1976 therefore Ash should have had a better season.

 

[bethlehemfan]

Flood however did inherit a top 40 program so there's that.

 

[76Scarlet]

As with everything else year, we got the wrong MSU at the wrong time.
Maybe we will get lucky with Maryland? Some people here are lauding Maryland like they had major accomplishments. Yeah, they beat MSU. But they got beat bad by Minnesota. And I don't see beating Purdue as a major accomplishment.

Remember, last year, Maryland was 2-9 going into our last game with them, and they eeked out the win in R house. Hope we can return the favor this year and save a little bit of face for this season.

Hope you're right about the Maryland game (I live in MD so hear enough about the Terps all the time :rolleyes:). They started out the season looking strong but then (like us) fell flat with stronger opponents. Like us, I think injuries started to mount this season although their situation appears not as grim as ours right now. So frustrating to watch last year! Seemed like we had that game wrapped up with something like a 31-7 half time lead. They had actually returned the favor from the previous year when they had us on the ropes thru most of the game and we came back nicely in the second half.

 

[Nosoj]

I agree, Schiano had a much tougher schedule

If you group all opponents from both seasons together, 2001 Rutgers may have had the toughest game (2001 Miami), but 2016 Rutgers has the next 4 with Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, and Washington.

I saw him win 4 bowl games in a row. How long before this guy gets to a bowl game at RU?

Left Flood with maybe the best team and recruiting class the school has ever had.

Team wasn't even close to this bad last year, now they can't even get a first down?

It's not the players.

It's the schedule if you're comparing bowls and bowl wins. Pretty convenient that Schiano started making bowls when Miami and VT came off the schedule and UConn and South Florida came on.

Yeah, except he inherited the worst program in the BCS that had god awful facilities, never won a bowl game, and had barely any fans.

Ash inherited a top 40 program with an awful season before he came on and managed to somehow have an even more awful season the next.

No offense, but no way is Rutgers a top 40 program. They might have an argument as a top 10 B1G program, but even that isn't a given.

 

[mildone]

When you are in the midst of it, it is not dwelling. This is merely commenting on reality.

Commenting once or twice is no big deal. The non-stop bitching and whining in every thread where a small group of extremely negative forum members continues to crap all over anything positive or hopeful is dwelling on it, and that's speaking euphemistically.

People can do what they want. It's a loosely moderated forum, which is good. But the people who seem incapable of not spreading their misery around with their non-stop negativity don't look wise or clever or thoughtful; they look very much like they are having a long-running pre-adolescent temper tantrum.

 

[CNJKnight]

CNJ, by posting real, factual information you're potentially going to confuse some people on here, but I'm sure they'll get around that by just letting it slide right by 'em, or by simply ignoring it, but thumbs up for giving it a shot anyway. [thumb2]:football:

I try! Appreciate the thumbs up!

 

[NotInRHouse]

How many of the current players on our roster played in that last bowl game, I wonder. Not very many, right? And under which coach did they spend the most time? Flood, right?

Where the team went in 2005 has absolutely nothing to do with what Ash inherited in 2016. I mean, c'mon now.

Enough of them. No one is saying we should be 8-5 like that team. But they should not have only 2 wins and get blanked 4 times. That is exceptionally bad. I don't know how people can gloss over what happened.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Did you notice Michigan State held tOSU to TWO touchdowns the week after we played them? MSU finally gelled and they are playing like the MSU of old. Hope they rip PSU to shreds this coming week.

I hope they beat them too but that doesn't change the fact that we got blanked by a team with 2 wins.

The other thing is tOSU tends to bounce back. So do the other B1G teams. How is it that Purdue, Northwestern, Illinois...teams that we have crushed in recruiting from the BE days, tend to get on the scoreboard while we can't?

 

[NotInRHouse]

I just can't believe people are comparing what Schiano inherited to what Ash inherited...

Players on the first Schiano team couldn't even transfer to D2 schools...meanwhile guys that played under Flood are in the NFL. As crappy as Flood was, there is a HUGE difference.

I am not trying to be a negatoid but we need to be real here. I feel like too many staked out a pro or anti Ash stance the day he was hired and can't look at the reality we are facing.

Schiano inherited a team that had never won a bowl game...never had a first round draft pick...in the worst conference...and we are going to say that Ash somehow faces a similar circumstance?

 

[mildone]

I am not trying to be a negatoid but we need to be real here. I feel like too many staked out a pro or anti Ash stance the day he was hired and can't look at the reality we are facing.

Knowing full well that he's here for three years minimum, I think what you're describing incorrectly as a "staked out stance" is simply a sane and reasonable way to view the current situation.

We are not saying we are 100% positive Ash is going to be the best coach ever. That would be staking out a stance. Nobody knows what's going to happen, good or bad.

But there are reasons to be hopeful and since we have two more years (minimum) to go, we would rather focus on any positives and be hopeful. For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would intentionally spend the next two years being miserable and trying to quell any hope that others might have.

Prior performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. People who are insisting that this season's poor performance means that Ash sucks are the people staking out a stance. It's probably a safe bet that Ash will have a successful coaching career. That he will do so at RU is a more difficult bet, but he's certainly going to get his chance whether his detractors like it or not.

 

[RU-05]

How about Tariq Cole on OL? Gio? Jawuan Harris? Justin Goodwin? Before getting injured, Janarion Grant made huge strides as WR compared to years past.
On D, there are Maddox-Williams, Greg Jones, Bateky, Damon Hayes, and a few others I am not remembering at the moment.

No wonder we are so good.

 

[Nihilist Rodgers]

Schiano would not have made a dent with the Big East being this good.. he is merely a coordinator in this league... God, I remember laughing at him as he made one stupid game time decision after another, and his constant pitting the bed in big games...

 

[dandy11]

Greg Shiano was 5-1 in Bowl games.The best barometer of a coach is how his team plays in Bowls.Most people feel that Rutgers fans live in a world of unreality.This is a quintessential example.Shiano was a superb coach,and Rutgers would love to have him back.

A former NFL scout told me,that Greg took a division-2 program and completely transformed it.Rutgers football was dismissed by NFL scouts until Shiano was hired.Greg won a lot of games, and produced a number of successful NFL players.

The scout said that Shianos players were superbly coached,and very well prepared for the NFL.

Greg surely could have used an excellent offensive coordinator.Rutgers does not pay a lot of money for their assistants,and it hurts the team.

Shiano was an outstanding coach,and Rutgers fans should praise him,not vilify him.

 

[NotInRHouse]

Knowing full well that he's here for three years minimum, I think what you're describing incorrectly as a "staked out stance" is simply a sane and reasonable way to view the current situation.

We are not saying we are 100% positive Ash is going to be the best coach ever. That would be staking out a stance. Nobody knows what's going to happen, good or bad.

But there are reasons to be hopeful and since we have two more years (minimum) to go, we would rather focus on any positives and be hopeful. For the life of me, I can't understand why someone would intentionally spend the next two years being miserable and trying to quell any hope that others might have.

Prior performance is not necessarily indicative of future results. People who are insisting that this season's poor performance means that Ash sucks are the people staking out a stance. It's probably a safe bet that Ash will have a successful coaching career. That he will do so at RU is a more difficult bet, but he's certainly going to get his chance whether his detractors like it or not.

Both sides are wrong, we have seen this show before. No one should be miserable, no one should be sunshine...at least not on what we've seen. The defense looks better, the offense worse. We shall see. I just wish more people would not have staked out a position before- you are not part of this crew but they are out there, and were for Flood and Schiano and will be for the next guy.

 

[MikeR0102]

Weird definitions of blowouts.

In 2003, we were down 42-7 to Pitt at halftime. Nice comeback effort in that game, but still lost by 10. Down 41-7 to Va Tech after 3 quarters. Down 41-21 after 3 quarters to Michigan State. Down 34-3 after 3 quarters to Miami.

In 2004, Down 38-3 to Pitt at halftime and down 40-7 to Navy at halftime, 54-7 after 3.

I hope we are further along in Ash's third year.

 

[mildone]

Both sides are wrong, we have seen this show before. No one should be miserable, no one should be sunshine...at least not on what we've seen. The defense looks better, the offense worse. We shall see. I just wish more people would not have staked out a position before- you are not part of this crew but they are out there, and were for Flood and Schiano and will be for the next guy.

I'm a skeptic. I'm content to wait and see and, for the moment, be hopeful and relatively positive. I support the staff because if they succeed, that will be easier (and cheaper) than any alternative. And because there's no point in me not supporting them for the time being.

But as you say, we shall see.

One thing though. I'm pretty sure nobody here in exactly sunshine over anything with the program. Except the trolls - they are loving this. :)

 

[BuckeyeLegion]

Greg Shiano was 5-1 in Bowl games.The best barometer of a coach is how his team plays in Bowls.

I can't agree with this. Sometimes it's just a barometer of the level of competition you played in bowls. Woody Hayes and Tom Osborne were under .500 in bowls. Bear Bryant and Nick Saban are under .600. Bo Schembachler was under .300. Schiano did a great job resurrecting the Rutgers program, but the best team he played in a bowl was...8-4 UCF? Maybe 6-5 Arizona State or 7-5 Kansas State?

Most people feel that Rutgers fans live in a world of unreality.This is a quintessential example.Shiano was a superb coach,and Rutgers would love to have him back.

A former NFL scout told me,that Greg took a division-2 program and completely transformed it.Rutgers football was dismissed by NFL scouts until Shiano was hired.Greg won a lot of games, and produced a number of successful NFL players.

The scout said that Shianos players were superbly coached,and very well prepared for the NFL.

Greg surely could have used an excellent offensive coordinator.Rutgers does not pay a lot of money for their assistants,and it hurts the team.

Shiano was an outstanding coach,and Rutgers fans should praise him,not vilify him.

I do agree with a lot of this. I think Schiano was a terrific coach. Rutgers is in the B1G because of Schiano. Anyone vilifying him belongs in the same boat as UF fans who vilify Urban. Maybe the end of their respective tenures was not what you wanted, but they accomplished more at their programs than anyone had before (or has since).

 

[Nihilist Rodgers]

Greg Shiano was 5-1 in Bowl games.The best barometer of a coach is how his team plays in Bowls.Most people feel that Rutgers fans live in a world of unreality.This is a quintessential example.Shiano was a superb coach,and Rutgers would love to have him back.
f money for their assistants,and it hurts the team.

Shiano was an outstanding coach,and Rutgers fans should praise him,not vilify him.

every time you played in a bowl.. the bowl game was so lousy you ended up playing teams worse than yourself.. PSU has been in that situation many at time.. do you want to take on FSU in the Orange Bowl or play a 4th place TN team in the Citrus?.. it's not your fault, the powers that be never did RU any favors at bull matchup time.. you usually got a lesser bowl vs a lesser opponent. You got stuck playing Ball State, UCF, NC State, Iowa State, you played Notre Dame and lost, and beat a VT team with a coach who was heading for the pasture. No, Florida's, Ohio State's, FSU's, Oregon.. not a whiff of the teams that filled the win columns during that run.. Worse yet were the years when you would be ranked and never hold your ranking thru year end. Schiano's record at Pitt or VT would have had him on the constant hot seat, he was good for RU but nothing special, not even in the weak northeast region... he only won 49% of his games.. some of you guys make him sound like Knute Rockney.. rename the stadium?!?!?

2006 Texas- Kansas State 37-10 W
2007 International -Ball State 52-30 W
2008 PapaJohns.com -N.C. State 29-23 W
2009 St. Petersburg -UCF 45-24 W
2011 Pinstripe -Iowa State 27-13 W
2012 Russell Athletic -Virginia Tech (OT) 10-13 L
2013 Pinstripe -Notre Dame 16-29 L
2014 Quick Lane -North Carolina 40-21 W

http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/schools/rutgers/

 

[bethlehemfan]

Hey sg why don't you go back to sucking your mommas tit? What's it been a week?

 

[mildone]

Rutgers is in the B1G because of Schiano. Anyone vilifying him belongs in the same boat as UF fans who vilify Urban.

But, but, but... Urban totally sucks!







I kid, I kid. :D

 

[Nihilist Rodgers]

Hey sg why don't you go back to sucking your mommas tit? What's it been a week?

RU is in the BIG for PSU, tOSU, and UM.. it's a TV market thing that has nothing specific to do with RU or Schiano.. in fact it will be a while till RU even brings their facilities up to spec (if ever) The BIG will have tourney's from Madison Square now.. you guys were the closest thing to a major program in NYC area. I would add RU over Nebraska for this very reason.. access to Iowa and Nebraska adds nothing.. but New York is a real nice fit. People talked about Missouri (far more athl success) but their market can't touch New York.. I love RU being in the BIG.. it's like a home away from home. A Jersey kid that goes to PSU/UM/tOSU can now be lured to play in front of the home folks, something that wasn't avail b4 RU. So you call me a troll.. it's not big deal.. I don't call names are lash out at people.. I like having some east coast guys to jaw with.. I've watched more RU games than 95% of the people who watch CFB (outside of your actual fan base).

In the past I've been extensively involved with HS, College, and JC football at a grass roots level.. I ran a football site in San Diego and had the opportunity to work with hundreds of ballers on highlights, camps, and even helped rank players for Rivals and Scout for 4 years.-sg