And the disaster known as Eddie Jordan or he certainly had a hand in it
guess barchi knew what a disaster we had before
- Thread starter ru66
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And the disaster known as Eddie Jordan or he certainly had a hand in it
Flop might be too generous. Practically every time Edith opened her mouth more damage was done
Very true. He let his staff hire Hermann. That one had disaster written all over it from day one.
He was not about to let that happen again when he reached out for Pat Hobbs. That is also why Hobbs has more power than previous AD's.
Glad to say that we are finally on the right track in athletics.
I've always said there are 2 things I'm concerned about with regards to the AD. Raise money and hire good coaches specifically in the main revenue sports. The rest is just minutiae, including PR stuff. There's no doubt JH had foot in mouth issues at times but too much gets made out of that. Who cares, it's a not big deal. What kind of flubs has Pat Hayden had, including going down to the field to argue with refs and hiring a coach with "issues", in the 2nd largest market in the country and did he get fired? Nope. And if he did it would be because his coaching hires failed not the other stuff, that would just be icing on it. Art Briles is quite salty at times and makes comments that aren't well thought out but did he get fired? No. Brian Kelly anyone? There are many others who do the same. The main focus of the job is all I care about and with regards to the AD that's raising money and hiring good coaches.
JH never got a chance to hire coaches for the main sports but the Olympic sports were trending up and you could see the increased support for some of them including wrestling which many are taking pride in now. Fundraising was trending up as well. Also this 25M with Lesniak why did that never get proposed before JH got here. Lesniak has always been an alum and how long has this law been on the books for us to possibly get access to that money? Could it be JH's and her team's work to get creative to find a way to get that money by working with an alum in the statehouse.
I never threw rose petals at JH but I supported her and was optimistic she might get us to where we want to go. Fundraising was up but we still had a ways to go and I said so. She never got a chance to hire the main coaches so she got an incomplete IMO but was moving in the right direction in terms of the entire athletic department.
Now everyone is throwing rose petals at Hobbs. Not me. He hasn't done anything yet. Did I miss the private donations in the 10s of millions of dollars? He's hired coaches both of which weren't my top choices but are perfectly fine options for me. Hiring coaches isn't the big deal. It's what kind of consistent results those coaches achieve that is the arbiter. That's only something we'll know in the coming years.
We're now getting positive vibes about a facility but what has Hobbs contributed to that? We don't know yet. The 25M was on its way. I've always said it would be through private donations and athletic revenue bonds that a facility would get built. That's usually how it's done everywhere else. Those private donations usually total in the 10s of millions of dollars. If he's gotten 30-50M in private donations well then I'd say name the damn building after him along side the donors and give him quite a lot of leeway in coaching misses because he would have done something no other AD here was able to do. But so far we don't know that's the case. It can be that Barchi and the BOG decided to issue more debt now where the didn't want to before. I can't say that I could credit Hobbs for that change of course if that was the case. If I hear that Hobbs raised 30-50M in private money I give him tons of credit but if it's just a change of tact from the very top well then what's the difference. It just seems like Barchi and the BOG have put athletics closer to the top of the priority list, not particularly anything Hobbs has done.
JH never got a chance to hire coaches for the main sports but the Olympic sports were trending up and you could see the increased support for some of them including wrestling which many are taking pride in now. Fundraising was trending up as well. Also this 25M with Lesniak why did that never get proposed before JH got here. Lesniak has always been an alum and how long has this law been on the books for us to possibly get access to that money? Could it be JH's and her team's work to get creative to find a way to get that money by working with an alum in the statehouse.
I never threw rose petals at JH but I supported her and was optimistic she might get us to where we want to go. Fundraising was up but we still had a ways to go and I said so. She never got a chance to hire the main coaches so she got an incomplete IMO but was moving in the right direction in terms of the entire athletic department.
Now everyone is throwing rose petals at Hobbs. Not me. He hasn't done anything yet. Did I miss the private donations in the 10s of millions of dollars? He's hired coaches both of which weren't my top choices but are perfectly fine options for me. Hiring coaches isn't the big deal. It's what kind of consistent results those coaches achieve that is the arbiter. That's only something we'll know in the coming years.
We're now getting positive vibes about a facility but what has Hobbs contributed to that? We don't know yet. The 25M was on its way. I've always said it would be through private donations and athletic revenue bonds that a facility would get built. That's usually how it's done everywhere else. Those private donations usually total in the 10s of millions of dollars. If he's gotten 30-50M in private donations well then I'd say name the damn building after him along side the donors and give him quite a lot of leeway in coaching misses because he would have done something no other AD here was able to do. But so far we don't know that's the case. It can be that Barchi and the BOG decided to issue more debt now where the didn't want to before. I can't say that I could credit Hobbs for that change of course if that was the case. If I hear that Hobbs raised 30-50M in private money I give him tons of credit but if it's just a change of tact from the very top well then what's the difference. It just seems like Barchi and the BOG have put athletics closer to the top of the priority list, not particularly anything Hobbs has done.
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ruguy--she did none of the good stuff you have attributed to her--hobbs has changed it all-- from our public perception, to positive press, to real $ coming in rather than just "taxes" on parking ,etc, to getting real potential hires wanting to interview here--its a world of difference in a positive way---our laughing stock rep fostered by herman is now dissipating.
Much of that image can also be attributed to Flood Rice Barchi and Pernetti
So, Rutgersguy1, if the 2 main things for an AD is hiring good coaches and raising money, according to you, from what I have seen so far, Hobbs is knocking it out of the park!
Raising money is not that easy when it comes to RU athletics, but I think Hobbs will get it done in due time. He's been here how long, 3 months, look at all the positive changes so far. With all the talent in NJ/NY area, there is no reason RU can't be a perennial top 25 team in both football and basketball within 3-5 years with our coaching staff.
Raising money is not that easy when it comes to RU athletics, but I think Hobbs will get it done in due time. He's been here how long, 3 months, look at all the positive changes so far. With all the talent in NJ/NY area, there is no reason RU can't be a perennial top 25 team in both football and basketball within 3-5 years with our coaching staff.
Well actually he hasn't hit it out the park because everything is still up in the air. He's hired coaches and while they weren't my top choices I'm perfectly fine with them, but we have no idea how good or not they are. It's unknown. The validation isn't in the hire it's in the results of the hire. When we see consistent good results meaning lots of wins and going to big bowl games and NCAA tourneys then I'll say yup he hit out of the park. Now mind you that's not going to happen instantly but it's something we'll know only in time. So right now as with all hires whether it was Flood, Waters, Rice etc.. there's that initial optimism that comes with all new hires but really everything is still unknown until we actually see results... meaning Ws. That's really the bottom line.
As to raising money well right now that's another unknown. If I see he's raised money in the 10s of millions like 30-50M in private donations then I'll say awesome job. It's something that's never been done here before and I said the AD to do that here will be the first and I'd even give that person leeway on coaching misses. Right now we don't have any evidence of that. 25M is coming from tax credits. I'm sure they'll be a big athletic revenue bonds component as I said most of these projects get done with a combination of athletic revenue bonds and private donations. The private donations part usually is in a figure in the 10s of millions like I said. Whether it be ASU, Minnesota, Northwestern you see big whale donations which account for large chunks of it. We've not seen something like that here yet. I've always said getting in addition to the "normal" alum pool that local unaffiliated people or businesses or previously disinterested alums are key in widening the pool of donors. If Hobbs can get some big whales from there then great job but again we haven't heard anything about that yet.
All I've ever said is be consistent in how you judge whether it be for coaches or ADs. My criteria didn't change from one AD to the next or one coach to the next really. You see personal biases come into play. People want to say JH was a disaster and then will praise TP, I mean really. He hired 2 atrocious coaches in the main sports which brought way more bad press to the university than JH ever did.
As far as the B10, I've said before there's only 1 AD out there I credit with getting his school into a P5 conference and that's Jurich. It's not because of some lobbying he did either, it was career's body of work over 16 years where he built a department so enticing to add that he was able to leapfrog a UConn even though Louisville's academics didn't match the profile of a typical ACC school. If you're wanted you're wanted and if you're not you're not and no amount of lobbying will help. Jurich got into the ACC but look when they attempted to leap over or come in along side of WVU for the B12. All Jurich's lobbying there didn't help. Or look at a premier athletic program like OU trying for the PAC12 without Texas...rejected. Or how about Mizzou and the B10. If you're wanted you're in and if you're not too bad. I said all along we'd be out of the BE/AAC with the B10 being the likely landing spot and it wasn't because of TP saying we'll be okay or any inside info. Most here were panicking with every defection and made plenty of facetious comments about markets mattering and TP saying we'll be okay. Even the mods said it looked bleak and when it finally happened it came on quick. For me it was just simple critical thinking. I saw how the PAC12 had to get their revenue sharing approved by the 2 schools in their largest market and how the extremely successful NFL after so many years still trying to work out the logistics of getting a team in the 2nd largest market in the country and now they finally have. Markets do matter and I always said they would and there was no way the lone large state school in the largest market in the country would be left out of the party when all was said and done.
Point is try and make judgments consistently. I see things where one person will get harangued for and another praised for or simply just glossed over.
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Julie was a disaster. That's a fact..she wouldn't have been fired less than 3 years into her tenure otherwise.
Same could be said with Tim. Good ADs aren't fired or forced to resign, so anyone saying either was a good AD is wrong, in my opinion.
So far, so good with Hobbs (though everything looked good for Tim early too). Just seems something is different with Hobbs and we finally got it right.
Same could be said with Tim. Good ADs aren't fired or forced to resign, so anyone saying either was a good AD is wrong, in my opinion.
So far, so good with Hobbs (though everything looked good for Tim early too). Just seems something is different with Hobbs and we finally got it right.
I like Hobbs - A LOT - but you guys need to realize that a bunch of things he's getting done, right now, were begun by Julie and close to "go" stage, regardless of who was here, so let's give some credit where and when it's due despite the issues that had to be dealt with while she was here, it's only fair.
Can't we say the same thing, then, between Julie and Tim?? Lots of what Julie accomplished was begun by Tim, no??
I'm not trying to compare ADs..each had their flaws, each had their strengths..but Julie and Tim were both ousted in controversial, embarrassing scenarios..thus to me, both disasters.
Hobbs is doing everything right, it seems, to start his tenure. Think we got a good one.
not really...it was said even by John O that it was shocking how the athletic department was so far behind in what they were suppose to be doing. That was under Tim and Bob's watch. They didnt know how to run an entire department, its more than just football. Julie was able to clean up that mess because she had expertise in the day to day operations. She failed in the end because she couldnt connect with some donors many of which hated her hire and never gave her a chance. The press hated her. Those two things were not going away. With Flood's mes which by the way was not hers. She was saddled with two atrocious head coaches but with Flood's mess she became expendable and it was a perfect time and justifcation to get rid of her. In the end it was the right move even though I was and am a big fan of her. I could care less what she said in the press those are ridiculous issues...she improved all the Olympic sports and left the department in a good spot for Hobbs, the master plan was going forward, the $25 million, all that stuff was happening while she was here.
Hobbs is the better AD for us going forward because he was/is able to unify the fanbase and that is important with a $100 million job. I get Rutgersguys point though....and for that matter Julie could have hired Hermann or Narduzzi two years ago, she certainly could have hired Pikiell as well. So careful in judging an AD before anyone has coached a minute. Hobbs has said all the right things though and he is making RU fans feel good about the future and that was important because the stench of Flood was just ruining things around here. Ultimately though he will be given a long honeymoon period, probably about 3 years til we see if these hires pan out and fundraising is working out. Still make no mistake about it I have full confidence in Hobbs.
I think it's time to move forward and put the past behind us. Yes, I'm sure Julie & Tim should get credit for many of the things, but, we live in a world where it's tough to overcome your mistakes. It's time to put the past behind us and look forward to the future with our 2 new coaching hires. If you can't see the transformation in the culture, training, recruiting in the football team, not sure what to say. I'm not expecting a 10-win season but I'm also not expecting the blowout losses that were so common as well. I'm expecting a fair QB competition and not a blind eye to one player no matter how he performs. I'm expecting a sound defense and a new exciting spread offense!
Not disagreeing with what you say. You make valid points. As I said though, both Tim and Julie had good and bad qualities as an AD from what I can tell.
But both left in a way that brought shame to the University...and that's ultimately how they will be remembered by the common fan.
If Pat Hobbs turns out to be our George Young we will all be very happy around here.
I do put the past behind us. You'll never see me start a thread about this kind of stuff but you know certain posters keep bringing this stuff up time and again with their own skews. I don't bring up TP or JH unless others do and am perfectly fine focusing on the present and future.
I have no problem with Hobbs or either of his hires. I've been advocating a switch to a spread for some time here before it was common place and gave all the reasoning behind it. Would do it again even if it failed with our current coach. My point is we can't judge anything because we haven't seen any results yet. It's all an unknown. Change in culture, slogans, ways of doing things etc..come with most coaching changes but the "proof is in the winning." If we see consistent results in time and live up to what our potential is as a football program, basketball program and entire athletic department that's when I'll say yup this hire or that hire was awesome. Until then the rest is just the usual hoopla around most regime changes especially early on. Real substance is what I'm looking for (ie winning) but we can't know that now because it's just too early. I have no problem if people want to be excited, that's the initial optimism of a new hire, but I'll keep my feet on the ground for now.
This. JH made huge strides in upgrading the operations of the athletic department. Of course there were people entrenched in the old system who didn't like the changes she brought. But there is no question that the department was much better run on Hermann's last day than it was before she arrived.
And while some donors didn't give Hermann a chance because they were upset with Pernetti's departuture, the hiring process that resulted in Hermann's selection, or just didn't like Hermann herself, most of the donors had come around. Ultimately it was Hermann's propensity for sticking her foot in her mouth (along with the continual press repercussions) that caused her to be replaced.
Tim was fired over BS (and I'm not saying he was a great AD), a media created controversy we wouldn't have heard about 20 years ago. Edith was an embarrassment almost from the get-go.
Pretty much this. It's obvious that by the end, Barchi didn't trust her judgement at all and was embarrassed enough and had enough political cover (mostly by her own doing) to can her.
Plus, I agree that, in hindsight, barchi has been actually wildly consistent. Coach is nuts, can him. AD allowed nutty coach to stick around, can him. Coach playing inspector gadget, can him. AD keeps saying stupidly embarrassing things, can her. Coach fails miserably, can him. I just don't see the come to Jesus moment. Somebody f's up enough, they're gone, capisce?
I understand and appreciate your skepticism, but in the short time Coach Ash & Coach P have been here, there are signs that things are changing for the better. In football, I will be happy if we go 6-6 and be competitive in most games. I think that's a reachable goal this year. Looking and hearing about how we are recruiting, developing players, and if you look at Coach Flood's staff compare that to Coach Ash's staff, night and day difference.
In basketball, I am friends with leading AAU coaches and they had nothing but good things to say about Coach P. Coach P has even reached out to them while they hardly heard from anyone from our previous staff.
Not saying things are going to change overnight, but as the saying goes: "Rome wasn’t built in a day, but they were laying bricks every hour."
When someone is terminate or leave your company employment, do you blame everything on the person that left? Where I worked, we don't talk about the person and move forward.
I wouldn't even call it skepticism, that even has a slight "negative" connotation to it which I don't really feel. I guess I'd just say indifferent. Not positive, not negative, more just wait and see. Not down but not excited either. I'm just about results and not the hoopla surrounding them. It's nice but it's not my particular focus.
I'll give examples. When Flood was hired, I said I was doubtful of him being successful here but then quiet after. No point in going on about decisions that have been made. He rattled off 7 wins and 9 out of 10 and I thought maybe I'm wrong let's see if he can build on it and most here were very happy. Solid first year too but we see how his tenure ended. Rice not my first choice, Skinner was, but he had a resume worthy of a shot. Same way I feel about Ash/Pikiell if the resume is worthy I'm good with it whether it was my first choice or not. Nice recruiting class for Rice, many had hope with them and we see how that ended. How about Hill with Rosario and Echenique? Waters to a degree too. Or how about at Michigan and Hoke's first year and their successful recruiting under him. We see it over and over, not just here. Some successful recruiting or a quick flash in the pan year which ends up leading to nothing in the end.
So point is I'm looking for more than just great recruiting or a successful flash in the pan year or any other short term thing. You won't really see me complain or get too excited about recruits, mantras, assistants, uniforms (provided their legible, lol), etc..It's all a means to an end and that end is consistent winning results and performing up to our potential as athletic programs and an entire department. When that happens that's when I'm excited. Right now it's too early.
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Happy? I'd be ecstatic beyond ALL belief if THIS roster, against THIS schedule, goes 6-6 this year.
Edith was Archie Bunkers wife on All in the Family.
She wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed and proved it each time she opened her mouth.
All I can say is thankfully I believe we have finally and truly found the bottom and are well on our way back up... let's not screw this up this time please.
no areyou she didn't steal my gf--she stole RU's rep and set us back years-- it's really annoying to me that anyone won't acknowledge how terrible she was from day one --these continued unfound platitudes by some, and we know who that one is ,and especially by one who takes over these boards from time to time and attacks to get his way, is an attempt to rewrite history--her legacy blows--and by the way I more than doubled my contributions while she was here not because of her but in spite of her--I'll stop mentioning her when some of the biggest whinners stop trying to change history
Very true. All this chatter about how JH reorganized the athletic dept and laid the foundation for B1G athletics is a total crock IMO. She got fired because she was inept at basic tasks, embarrassed RU with the media and did not provide proper oversight of the FB program. Her credibility with Barchi was so lacking that he did not dare let her make the next FB hire. The less we talk about her the better IMO.
I stopped right there since this statement is so insanely ignorant I can't even believe I'm responding. Julie had her issues, and caused some problems, but this is one of the dumbest comments - born purely out of your hatred for her - that I've ever read on these boards. Peace.
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Completely agree with you 66.....she set us back and accelerated the erosion of our brand to laughingstock status. I'm not sure where people get this notion of "reorganizing the athletic department" and why that was apparently more important than dealing with boosters and being the public spokesperson for the athletic department! I have 8 tickets in the Audi club and suspended additional donations after my first meeting with her but have since resumed now that Hobbs is in charge.
Rutgers faculty needs to step up now. Some schools, like the law school, are in free fall.
We had a brand??? Try traveling and living in different parts of the US. Rutgers does not and has not had an athletic brand in almost 50 years.
I have said time and again winning is the only thing that matters in sports,Everything else is window dressing.Rutgers problems in joining the B1G was that they were unprepared in facilities, coaching, finances and recruiting yet the games must be played.Coaches and AD'S get the credit when their teams win and the blame when they lose.Like with mens basketball there is no place to hide after 25 years of futility.
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