Holloway

[NewJerseyHawk]

Getting major conference level HS kids requires NIL, too. And then more to retain them. It's a new world.

Holloway seemingly isn't inspiring a lot of contributions, though, and hasn't been able to get the most out of the roster he's assembled.

Even if you are not at the top of the food chain with NIL funds, you still have to find HS prospects each and every recruiting class at a minimum. And even if you only have 2M to 2.5M in NIL (rumored) at SHU, that doesn't explain 6-12. If you don't have any 2025 recruits signed and you knowingly are not deep with NIL, you might lose more players than you bring in via the portal.

 

[KK1827]

The NIL argument is 100% stupidity......they have to recruit HS kids as a baseline of your job description. They had TWO HS 2024 Recruits on this year's roster and ZERO commits for 2025.

You get 13 scholarships to allocate. The portal is for backfilling gaps in the roster, not for NIL to fill out your roster.

6 wins and 12 losses with no depth or plan to build around and people are saying he's a great coach?? How hard is it to find 2 to 3 recruiting pieces out of HS per year, f you claim to be a Big East team??

Even mid majors recruit HS kids.....

If you think NIL/portal is the overwhelmingly #1 reason SHU sucks then idk what to tell you

 

[KK1827]

Even if you are not at the top of the food chain with NIL funds, you still have to find HS prospects each and every recruiting class at a minimum. And even if you only have 2M to 2.5M in NIL (rumored) at SHU, that doesn't explain 6-12. If you don't have any 2025 recruits signed and you knowingly are not deep with NIL, you might lose more players than you bring in via the portal.

And then if you develop them as frosh and they start producing as sophs, theyre out that offseason and spend jr and sr year elsewhere when you cant afford to pay them

 

[RUChoppin]

If you think NIL/portal is the overwhelmingly #1 reason SHU sucks then idk what to tell you

It totally isn't, Holloway is not even doing anything with the talent he has - but SHU is going to face rough sledding ahead with whatever coach they bring in.

 

[Knight Shift]

Sha is a great coach. With that said SHU is so royally fvcked in the nil age of basketball. They dont have many successful alums and the few they do have are mostly law school grads who dont have a connection to shu as their undergrad years were done elsewhere.

Mo Vaughn quietly has made a MASSIVE amount of money on affordable housing. Not sure hes involved in SHU athletics though

You are like @ashokan with Schiano- you will go way out of your way to crap all over Pikes, and then go way out of your way to lavish praise on a failing coach from another team and make tons of excuses for their failure. Weird way to be.

 

[Knight Shift]

Correct. Seton Hall is on the level with a county college. I say this as someone who grew up a rabid seton hall fan and didnt even apply there.

How many people do you personally know who did their undergrad there who are making serious money? And keep in mind its a super small school so volume wise, naturally they're already at a disadvantage.

Pat Hobbs.
And Robert E Brennan- handed me my law degree.

Robert E. Brennan - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There's also Dennis Kozlowski, the former CEO of Tyco!
And one of the Jonas Brothers, and Craig Biggio, and several other successful athletes. Let's stop with the excuses.

 

[KK1827]

You are like @ashokan with Schiano- you will go way out of your way to crap all over Pikes, and then go way out of your way to lavish praise on a failing coach from another team and make tons of excuses for their failure. Weird way to be.

Sha brought st peters to the elite 8. Im not sure you guys are comprehending how hard that is.

 

[Knight Shift]

Sha brought st peters to the elite 8. Im not sure you guys are comprehending how hard that is.

 

[TrueBlue1989]

Correct. Seton Hall is on the level with a county college. I say this as someone who grew up a rabid seton hall fan and didnt even apply there.

How many people do you personally know who did their undergrad there who are making serious money? And keep in mind its a super small school so volume wise, naturally they're already at a disadvantage.

George Kurtz, CEO of Crowdstrike, a Pirate worth circa $4B. Pretty good.

 

[RUChoppin]

Sha brought st peters to the elite 8. Im not sure you guys are comprehending how hard that is.

Yes... and he did that in 2021-22, which was really the "first year" of the new era. Between 2020-21 and 2021-22, the NCAA eliminated the requirement for transfers to sit out a year and allowed NIL. 3 years on, and it's a whole new world.

 

[KK1827]

Yes... and he did that in 2021-22, which was really the "first year" of the new era. Between 2020-21 and 2021-22, the NCAA eliminated the requirement for transfers to sit out a year and allowed NIL. 3 years on, and it's a whole new world.

Correct. Again, sha is a great coach. Ive said this since before he even made the elite 8

 

[Duff366]

"Great" coaches, coach up his team, something he's failing miserably at this year.

 

[shields]

He is headed to what 9-23?

 

[dpwhite]

Just watching SHU get run out of their own gym by Marquette while the color commentator is saying damning stuff about ShU’s offense.

 

[JFK20]

It’s a kind of funny those dismissing Holloway’s coaching when you consider his best players are Chaunce Jenkins and Garwey Dual and Rutgers needed a buzzer beater to win with two top 5 NBA picks.

Not to mention the fact that Holloway has 3x the amount of NCAA Tourney wins as Pikiell……in 13 less years of coaching.

But of course to most of this board Pikiell is a great coach who “has earned the right to finish his contract”.

Makes sense.

 

[shields]

Seton Hall Ru games are close games. We were bad last year and we beat them. Seton hall is now 6-14.

 

[Duff366]

It’s a kind of funny those dismissing Holloway’s coaching when you consider his best players are Chaunce Jenkins and Garwey Dual and Rutgers needed a buzzer beater to win with two top 5 NBA picks.

Not to mention the fact that Holloway has 3x the amount of NCAA Tourney wins as Pikiell……in 13 less years of coaching.

But of course to most of this board Pikiell is a great coach who “has earned the right to finish his contract”.

Makes sense.

You'd have to admit, Holloway is doing a terrible job this year. They aren't even competitive. Total embarrassment

 

[dpwhite]

It’s a kind of funny those dismissing Holloway’s coaching when you consider his best players are Chaunce Jenkins and Garwey Dual and Rutgers needed a buzzer beater to win with two top 5 NBA picks.

Not to mention the fact that Holloway has 3x the amount of NCAA Tourney wins as Pikiell……in 13 less years of coaching.

But of course to most of this board Pikiell is a great coach who “has earned the right to finish his contract”.

Makes sense.

Just saying that you're going to start seeing SHU fans complain about the offense being run too (if they aren't already).

 

[batts]

One source, who is pretty damn tuned in to college BB, thinks that SHU had the 3rd smallest NIL budget of all Power 6 schools last year. Holloway therefore had to gamble to try to build a competitive team by going after recruits who were highly ranked in high school (eg. Harmon, Duall, Middleton, Yeldon), but underperformed in college. His gamble failed miserably. He also made the mistake of trying to build a roster of 7 to 10 deep which also didn't pan out since several of the players are just not good enough to see any regular playing time. Holloway put this Team together so he must accept the blame for this year's disaster. Unless major donors step up for SHU, its Mens BB program is destined to remain bottom tiered.

 

[RRRRUUUU]

Halloway had two hands tied behind his back with NIL. Still a good coach, just an uneven battle.

I still believe in Pike long term, but he needs to get some different help around him.

 

[fluoxetine]

Sha brought st peters to the elite 8. Im not sure you guys are comprehending how hard that is.

Sha made St Peter's the ~100th best team and also managed to get super hot at the right time.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

If someone here can tell me who's Wayne Tinkle and how that's different than Shaheen Holloway, I am fine to have the discussion.

In 2020-21, Oregon State with Wayne Tinkle, made the Elite 8.....I really think Tinkle is a solid coach, who had his son playing for him and Stevie Thompsons son, Ethan running the show for Oregon State. This was after an epic run through the Pac 12 tournament.

In a random tournament at any point in time, a team can get hot and win games, especially at the college level where the talent is spread out and some coaches like John Calipari, lose games in the NCAA tournament.

No one outside of the West Coast knows anything about Tinkle but he has a 1 time run and so does Holloway. It is impossible to claim a HC is excellent, if you don't recruit some players and more importantly, you cannot avoid a potential single digit win season in a Power 4/5 conference.

The year after Oregon State went to the Elite 8, Oregon State lost everyone to graduation and or portal and injury and they went 3-28 the next season. It is just now in this season that Oregon State is somewhat recovering from 3-28 in 2021-22. Tinkle went to the Elite 8 at Oregon State.....Holloway and his Elite 8 run down the road at St Peters and not at Seton Hall, is NOT going to carry the same weight.

I can guarantee everyone on this message boards that if Holloway goes single digit wins this year and has NO HS 2025 recruits, it is more likely SHU is no better than .500 next year and that's assuming they bring in more players, which costs money that most schools don't want to spend, even if they raise the money to do so.

You simply cannot sell tickets and sell hope or improve, without signing any HS recruits. The portal (coaches are finding out) is NO WAY to build a cohesive and competitive roster, unless you have unlimited funds or are a blue blood like Kansas, Kentucky or Duke.

Holloway could be the best all time game day coach ever, but the job description does not reward coaches with praise, based on a lucky 1 time miracle run for 3 NCAA wins and no recruits signed 3 years into your tenure.

Holloway and Tinkle have the same number of NCAA tourney wins (3) and Holloway is 2 more seasons away from being fired, if he doesn't break .500 next year. No one is going to games next year, when you are in an off campus arena and renewing season tickets if you finish 9-23 or worse in 2024-25.....good luck with that......

 

[Mholinko]

If someone here can tell me who's Wayne Tinkle and how that's different than Shaheen Holloway, I am fine to have the discussion.

In 2020-21, Oregon State with Wayne Tinkle, made the Elite 8.....I really think Tinkle is a solid coach, who had his son playing for him and Stevie Thompsons son, Ethan running the show for Oregon State. This was after an epic run through the Pac 12 tournament.

In a random tournament at any point in time, a team can get hot and win games, especially at the college level where the talent is spread out and some coaches like John Calipari, lose games in the NCAA tournament.

No one outside of the West Coast knows anything about Tinkle but he has a 1 time run and so does Holloway. It is impossible to claim a HC is excellent, if you don't recruit some players and more importantly, you cannot avoid a potential single digit win season in a Power 4/5 conference.

The year after Oregon State went to the Elite 8, Oregon State lost everyone to graduation and or portal and injury and they went 3-28 the next season. It is just now in this season that Oregon State is somewhat recovering from 3-28 in 2021-22. Tinkle went to the Elite 8 at Oregon State.....Holloway and his Elite 8 run down the road at St Peters and not at Seton Hall, is NOT going to carry the same weight.

I can guarantee everyone on this message boards that if Holloway goes single digit wins this year and has NO HS 2025 recruits, it is more likely SHU is no better than .500 next year and that's assuming they bring in more players, which costs money that most schools don't want to spend, even if they raise the money to do so.

You simply cannot sell tickets and sell hope or improve, without signing any HS recruits. The portal (coaches are finding out) is NO WAY to build a cohesive and competitive roster, unless you have unlimited funds or are a blue blood like Kansas, Kentucky or Duke.

Holloway could be the best all time game day coach ever, but the job description does not reward coaches with praise, based on a lucky 1 time miracle run for 3 NCAA wins and no recruits signed 3 years into your tenure.

Holloway and Tinkle have the same number of NCAA tourney wins (3) and Holloway is 2 more seasons away from being fired, if he doesn't break .500 next year. No one is going to games next year, when you are in an off campus arena and renewing season tickets if you finish 9-23 or worse in 2024-25.....good luck with that......

The obsession with Holloway has always been confusing to me.

Great run and as we all know in the ncaa tournament matchups matter and St. Peter’s ran into a series of soft unprepared teams that contrasted a style that could compete coupled with incredibly hot shooting from some guys who are no better than Dercack Jmike Martini etc etc from a real life talent standpoint

He has done probably a WORSE job recruiting than Pike and truthfully I think his style which is a little old school wears thin quickly if you aren’t winning and he’s even MORE of a culture guy than Pike which in the NIL era is incredibly incredibly difficult unless you ALREADY had a culture like Matt Painter, Tom Izzo, Shaka Smart and some of these other guys who can recruit and retain their entire roster

Seton hall IMO is going to enter DePaul territory from the last few years … DePaul is currently at least attempting to pivot to a Holtmann who was a good recruiter and may stand a better chance in this era of college hoops

 

[KK1827]

Sha made St Peter's the ~100th best team and also managed to get super hot at the right time.

you've never been to a st peters game or on their campus. It's one of the most impressive and improbable runs in the history of the sport.

 

[batts]

The obsession with Holloway has always been confusing to me.

Great run and as we all know in the ncaa tournament matchups matter and St. Peter’s ran into a series of soft unprepared teams that contrasted a style that could compete coupled with incredibly hot shooting from some guys who are no better than Dercack Jmike Martini etc etc from a real life talent standpoint

He has done probably a WORSE job recruiting than Pike and truthfully I think his style which is a little old school wears thin quickly if you aren’t winning and he’s even MORE of a culture guy than Pike which in the NIL era is incredibly incredibly difficult unless you ALREADY had a culture like Matt Painter, Tom Izzo, Shaka Smart and some of these other guys who can recruit and retain their entire roster

Seton hall IMO is going to enter DePaul territory from the last few years … DePaul is currently at least attempting to pivot to a Holtmann who was a good recruiter and may stand a better chance in this era of college hoops

Pike did not recruit better than Holloway. Instead, he was gifted two NBA lottery picks who were paid for by a corporate sponser. Harper and Ace were going to follow the money. Without the two lottery picks, RU would be no better than SHU, or maybe even worse.

 

[fluoxetine]

you've never been to a st peters game or on their campus. It's one of the most impressive and improbable runs in the history of the sport.

Improbable yes. If they were actually good enough to accomplish that reliably they wouldn’t have been a 15 seed in the first place. They caught absolute fire at the right time and good for them. Don’t mistake that for coaching skill.

I’m not even saying he’s a bad coach but “made the elite eight” is not much evidence. We are literally talking about winning THREE GAMES

 

[seansherm]

Pike did not recruit better than Holloway. Instead, he was gifted two NBA lottery picks who were paid for by a corporate sponser. Harper and Ace were going to follow the money. Without the two lottery picks, RU would be no better than SHU, or maybe even worse.

You guys are funny if you think RU didn't come up with $ on their own. The corporate $ was there for them wherever they went. Either RU ponied up additionally, OR Pike got them to come without additional, which is an amazing recruiting job. It can't be both.

 

[fluoxetine]

Pike did not recruit better than Holloway. Instead, he was gifted two NBA lottery picks who were paid for by a corporate sponser. Harper and Ace were going to follow the money. Without the two lottery picks, RU would be no better than SHU, or maybe even worse.

Bizarre to assume we would have the same remaining roster minus the lottery picks and Pike, for all his flaws, has not put out a team nearly as bad as Seton Hall’s current team his entire time here including the first two seasons.

 

[KK1827]

Improbable yes. If they were actually good enough to accomplish that reliably they wouldn’t have been a 15 seed in the first place. They caught absolute fire at the right time and good for them. Don’t mistake that for coaching skill.

I’m not even saying he’s a bad coach but “made the elite eight” is not much evidence. We are literally talking about winning THREE GAMES

He came from a one bid league, they were the 15 seed because they has minimal talent lol. Doug Eddert the darling of that run couldn't even start at Bryant when he transferred. It was one of the most improbable run in the history of the sport.

You are bananas if you don't think Sha is a good coach. Absolutely insane. He fairly convincingly outcoached Matt Painter and John Cal. He basically beat Purdue and shut down Zach Edey with a roster full of guys no taller than 6'4.

Living in Hoboken I used to go to many SPU games and had seen sha up close for years leading up to that run. The guy is nails. Incredible coach.

 

[Rhuarc]

It’s a kind of funny those dismissing Holloway’s coaching when you consider his best players are Chaunce Jenkins and Garwey Dual and Rutgers needed a buzzer beater to win with two top 5 NBA picks.

Not to mention the fact that Holloway has 3x the amount of NCAA Tourney wins as Pikiell……in 13 less years of coaching.

But of course to most of this board Pikiell is a great coach who “has earned the right to finish his contract”.

Makes sense.

Do you actually read the board? It seems like every other post is ripping PIke, wants him gone and is ready to pack up his crap this weekend.

 

[Duff366]

He came from a one bid league, they were the 15 seed because they has minimal talent lol. Doug Eddert the darling of that run couldn't even start at Bryant when he transferred. It was one of the most improbable run in the history of the sport.

You are bananas if you don't think Sha is a good coach. Absolutely insane. He fairly convincingly outcoached Matt Painter and John Cal. He basically beat Purdue and shut down Zach Edey with a roster full of guys no taller than 6'4.

Living in Hoboken I used to go to many SPU games and had seen sha up close for years leading up to that run. The guy is nails. Incredible coach.

Your words ring hollow when the "incredible" coach is getting his ass kicked nightly

 

[fluoxetine]

He came from a one bid league, they were the 15 seed because they has minimal talent lol. Doug Eddert the darling of that run couldn't even start at Bryant when he transferred. It was one of the most improbable run in the history of the sport.

Again, if he was good enough to make the elite 8 with that talent with any regularity then he would’ve been good enough to rampage through that league and get a better seed. It was the most improbable because it required them to play the absolute best basketball of their lives at exactly the right time. It wasn’t coaching magic.

You are bananas if you don't think Sha is a good coach. Absolutely insane. He fairly convincingly outcoached Matt Painter and John Cal. He basically beat Purdue and shut down Zach Edey with a roster full of guys no taller than 6'4.

Living in Hoboken I used to go to many SPU games and had seen sha up close for years leading up to that run. The guy is nails. Incredible coach.

He’s probably a good coach. The dumbasses in this thread who are currently sucking his balls would be howling for him to be fired if he put up results here like he is right now at Seton Hall. There is no consistency.

 

[RUChoppin]

St. Peter's had a magical run in that 2022 tournament, but run each of those games back 10 times, and they probably lose the other 9. That's what makes March Madness what it is!

 

[shields]

6-14 and have not played Conecticut yet. Tinkle was a good example.

 

[dbegleiter]

I’m not sure what people don’t understand. He coached St Peters and beat Kentucky and Purdue among others. At Seton hall he has 0 money to recruit and it shows. I’m not claiming to know exact amounts, but its pretty obvious they have no money. You dont get players without money. Fairly simple

 

[fluoxetine]

I’m not sure what people don’t understand. He coached St Peters and beat Kentucky and Purdue among others. At Seton hall he has 0 money to recruit and it shows. I’m not claiming to know exact amounts, but its pretty obvious they have no money. You dont get players without money. Fairly simple

How much money did he have at St Peter’s?

 

[RUChoppin]

⅔

I’m not sure what people don’t understand. He coached St Peters and beat Kentucky and Purdue among others. At Seton hall he has 0 money to recruit and it shows. I’m not claiming to know exact amounts, but its pretty obvious they have no money. You dont get players without money. Fairly simple

So, is the argument that his roster at St. Peter's was better than his current roster?

That team may have beaten Kentucky and Purdue in two isolated games, but they also finished 16-11 in the regular season in the MAAC. That was a team that had a hot streak at the right moment - Cinderella of Cinderellas.

 

[PJVegas]

KK1827 still can’t get over the fact that his application to SH was rejected. 😵‍💫

 

[batts]

You guys are funny if you think RU didn't come up with $ on their own. The corporate $ was there for them wherever they went. Either RU ponied up additionally, OR Pike got them to come without additional, which is an amazing recruiting job. It can't be both.

Sorry, I didn't realize that Pike had a history of bringing in multiple NBA lottery picks to RU. My bad.

 

[RexMantlepiece]

Seton Hall Ru games are close games. We were bad last year and we beat them. Seton hall is now 6-14.

Thank you people forget that rivalry games are just that. Throw records out the window.