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Hopefully, losing 49-10 keeps PSU fans away

Did not watch the PSU game, but it seemed Barkley got most of the receptions. I'm guessing no time for your QB to throw deep? Did Blacknall get any thrown his way?
You pleased with Giesecki's (sp?) performance so far this year? Saw last week he mad an insane catch.

Blacknall out. OL struggled. WRs lack separation.

Gesicki has been lights out catching the ball but won't block. Hey, at least he's making catches though. That's an improvement. Without looking, I wouldn't be surprised to see he leads the team in actual receptions.
 
I for one am quite happy to have Franklin as PSU's HC for years to come. It means they will never move into the upper ranks of the B1G East. His mouth is bigger than his success. A few good years at Vandy does not necessarily make him a good HC. He got out of Vandy just in time as they were 3-9 the next year also while SEC East was having a big down time and all the real powers were in the SEC West. So much for long term team building. He came to PSU with big talk of winning national Championships and can barely summon up a .500 team and that with national recruits and a stadium that holds over 100k rabid fans which really helps. Reminds me of Michigan in the few years before Harbaugh.
 
Come on... this guy has to be an RU fan pretending to be a stereotypical PSU fan. Just look at the name. No one would name themselves something like that... would they?
Well, based on his propensity for misspelling, I fear he is inferring Joe Pa did something really bad nasty to a white knight and ended up in a very odd position. The answer is blowing in the wind . . . .
 
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RU is never going to be Iowa because you lack the fan base to take the program to the next level. .

Do fans play the games? Do they coach? (although most think they can) It's NJ...we need to show we can be competitive week to week in this division and win a few we are not supposed to for the place to be packed and roaring again with the bandwagoners. No offense but NJ is not central PA or Iowa from a cultural standpoint. There's way too many other things going on around here better than devoting your Saturday afternoons in the fall to a program that didn't appear to be committed to legitimately competing the past 4 seasons until the hiring of Hobbs and Ash. I'm an alum and a die-hard so I go to games no matter what but the "on the fence crowd" needs to see results before buying back in. This is a pro sports market...Iowa is not.

My good friend who graduated from PSU in '98 told me yesterday he's lost interest in PSU football over the past few years after the Sandusky stuff came out. He's from NJ but moved out of the area recently and said he does not miss making the one or two trips out to State College in the fall because he thinks, and this is his words, not mine "the Paterno Kool-Aid drinkers are insufferable and need to let him go already". I asked why he thinks they can't let him go when FSU has moved on from Bowden and his response was "Florida actually has other things to do besides FSU football. Beaches, golf, sailing, fishing, night life, amusement parks, etc. Central PA has nothing else going for it". Again, this is coming from an alum, former season ticket holder and a guy who was a freshmen in 1994 calling me every week telling me how awesome it was being a student there that season. He and my best buddy from growing up who also went there are both disgusted with PSU football and both honestly think they are not much better than we are at the moment. Now a third friend who was in their fraternity and lives near me still drinks the Kool-Aid and the other two guys think he's kind of nuts for it but to each their own.
 
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My good friend who graduated from PSU in '98 told me yesterday he's lost interest in PSU football over the past few years after the Sandusky stuff came out. He's from NJ but moved out of the area recently and said he does not miss making the one or two trips out to State College in the fall because he thinks, and this is his words, not mine "the Paterno Kool-Aid drinkers are insufferable and need to let him go already". I asked why he thinks they can't let him go when FSU has moved on from Bowden and his response was "Florida actually has other things to do besides FSU football. Beaches, golf, sailing, fishing, night life, amusement parks, etc. Central PA has nothing else going for it". Again, this is coming from an alum, former season ticket holder and a guy who was a freshmen in 1994 calling me every week telling me how awesome it was being a student there that season. He and my best buddy from growing up who also went there are both disgusted with PSU football and both honestly think they are not much better than we are at the moment. Now a third friend who was in their fraternity and lives near me still drinks the Kool-Aid and the other two guys think he's kind of nuts for it but to each their own.

The faction of Penn State alumni and fans who cannot separate their feelings from Joe Paterno from having an impact on how they view the program currently are certainly annoying. But I'd have to disagree with your friend's reasoning here, even if the departures of Bowden and Paterno were remotely comparable, which they are not.

First, I wouldn't want to live in Central PA as a non-student (maybe in retirement, but that's a ways off), but there are other things to do in the area, especially if you're into some of the things your friend listed such as fishing, hunting, etc. The State College area is actually considered one of the best fly fishing areas around, if you're into that sort of thing; I'm not, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Second, and this is the more important point, the people you'd lump into that Paterno truther category are not isolated to Central PA. They're comprised of people living all over the country, so the lack of diverse leisure activities in Centre County compared with other areas of the country is WAY down the list of reasons people cannot let go.
 
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Wait. Did a Penn State fan really advise us regarding "Class"
 
The faction of Penn State alumni and fans who cannot separate their feelings from Joe Paterno from having an impact on how they view the program currently are certainly annoying. But I'd have to disagree with your friend's reasoning here, even if the departures of Bowden and Paterno were remotely comparable, which they are not.

First, I wouldn't want to live in Central PA as a non-student (maybe in retirement, but that's a ways off), but there are other things to do in the area, especially if you're into some of the things your friend listed such as fishing, hunting, etc. The State College area is actually considered one of the best fly fishing areas around, if you're into that sort of thing; I'm not, but hey, whatever floats your boat.

Second, and this is the more important point, the people you'd lump into that Paterno truther category are not isolated to Central PA. They're comprised of people living all over the country, so the lack of diverse leisure activities in Centre County compared with other areas of the country is WAY down the list of reasons people cannot let go.

Good points. My wife also graduated from FSU so we cheer for them too. Every time they suffer a bad loss (like to Ville) I never hear/read "I miss Bobby" or "Bobby would have never lost to Louisville". Yet that seems to be an ever present message on BWI.
 
This is funny.

Penn State was outclassed by Michigan on Saturday. I'm not sure that came as a surprise to anyone who doesn't have their head up their you-know-what. When you are one of the youngest teams in the country with only 12 seniors, are missing a handful of defensive starters including all of your linebackers, and are playing a legitimate National Championship contender, these types of games happen.

Franklin isn't the reason Penn State got blown out this weekend. When your walk-on MLB gets ejected on an awful targeting call and you place him with a wrestler just promoted from the scout team this week, that isn't coaching. That's talent, depth, and all of those other good things present on big-time rosters. Further, the improvement we've seen in the OL over the first few weeks was exposed as something of a mirage, as it looked like 2014 and 2015 all over again on Saturday when they faced a legit defensive front.

What DID concern me about this one is how the team seemed to play scared as the game went on, kicking meaningless field goals, not attempting fourth down conversions, etc. I'm still in the camp that supports Franklin and thinks everyone needs to withhold final judgment until after next season as some of these roster limitations fix themselves, but more lopsided losses like this one, and yes, the natives will get restless.

Fortunately, Penn State plays just one more game against a team the caliber of Michigan. The defense presumably can only get healthier, and the offense is plenty good enough to still go at least 5-2 against the non-Ohio State portion of the rest of the schedule. It won't be pretty at times, but that would still get you the 7-5 season with improved offensive play you were looking for as a jumping-off point heading into 2017, which will be something of a make-or-break year for this staff.
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I'm ok with being on par with Iowa, they've been the Thorn in our side every year when we thought we had a chance at a conference championship. RU is never going to be Iowa because you lack the fan base to take the program to the next level. I'd venture a very positive guess that there might be very close to the same number of fans that drive the 3-4 hours any given Saturday out to state college from NJ/NY/CT for PSU games than attend Rutgers games here at home. Judging by your attendance that's not hard to fathom...Pittsburg of the east, be thankful you paint some of your bleacher seats red not Bright yellow so it looks like there are more buns in the seats.

Our head coach had a rebuilding job at Vandy a school that never went to a bowl game in its history and took them to two. He has a major rebuilding job here at PSU and has two straight top 25 recruiting classes. Let's see what Ash finishes at, I'd say he is lucky if he holds onto a top 40 class after this miserable year.
Ohhhh ok. And what has he done so far? Jack shit. I hope you keep Franklin forever. He's trash just like your school, fans, and dead ole Joe
 
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Yes, because all of the attendees of the Penn State games are "hicks" who live within a 20 mile radius of the stadium. Good point.

We may not have had a NC in 30 years but I think it is a stretch to say that we've been completely irrelevant. The standings over that 30 year time frame would suggest otherwise.
ATTENDANCE! ATTENDANCE! ATTENDANCE!

When your program has been irrelevant for as long as yours. I quess that's the best way to convince yourself you still matter.

Seriously, Michigan absolutely bitch slapped you. Friggen Hawaii played them tougher than you guys.

Pitt beat you guys down. If it wasn't for their Offensive Coordinator taking his foot off the pedal. The score would of been much worse.

Bottomline. Your program is a laughingstock. The only thing your football program is now known for is hiding a serial scumbag. So yeah ATTENDANCE!

There nothing else to do in Central Pa. So yes the hicks night out once every 2 weeks is a Penn st game........comical
 
You have less big 10 titles than Northwestern, Wisconsin, Iowa, OSU, Michigan, Michigan st. Throw in Nebraska who would demolish you this year. Your program has been nothing more than a mid tier big 10 team for almost 3 decades
 
ATTENDANCE! ATTENDANCE! ATTENDANCE!

When your program has been irrelevant for as long as yours. I quess that's the best way to convince yourself you still matter.

Seriously, Michigan absolutely bitch slapped you. Friggen Hawaii played them tougher than you guys.

Pitt beat you guys down. If it wasn't for their Offensive Coordinator taking his foot off the pedal. The score would of been much worse.

Bottomline. Your program is a laughingstock. The only thing your football program is now known for is hiding a serial scumbag. So yeah ATTENDANCE!

There nothing else to do in Central Pa. So yes the hicks night out once every 2 weeks is a Penn st game........comical

Funny because I read about attendance on this very site and have even seen RU posters poke fun at both PITT and Syracuse for their attendance issues.

I didn't bring up attendance. I talked about our last 30 years and said that I think irrelevant would be true if you're talking about NCs but not true if you are looking at things like T10 finishes. I think we've had a few over those years.

I also said that the stadium isn't filled with people from only within a 20 mile radius of State College but maybe you can't get that part to sink in. I'm sure you love NYC or NJ or wherever the hell you live but...believe it or not...everyone doesn't feel that way. You couldn't pay me enough money to live there.

BTW, there's still this one little problem that you have. Rutgers has never been able to beat Penn State. Spin it however you like but at the end of the day that's where this conversation will end.
 
Penn State has a very mediocre football program. Have for 20 years, only overrated by namesake every year like Notre Dame (and like us from 2008-2014).

Which is a shame because the Big Ten is really strong this year it appears. Only to be dragged down by the likes of the "traditional power" and "blue blood" that is Penn State football. I hope your garbage program hightails it to the ACC like your fans apparently desperately want (knowing you can't compete). Really saddened we didn't score 50 on Saturday. You are now a team that a 39pt win over is disappointing.. You're a basement dwelling, extra bye week, tune up game cupcake of a program. Purdue of the East in a division that includes Indiana, Rutgers and Maryland. F*ck Penn State.
 
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Penn State has a very mediocre football program. Have for 20 years, only overrated by namesake every year like Notre Dame (and like us from 2008-2014).

Which is a shame because the Big Ten is really strong this year it appears. Only to be dragged down by the likes of the "traditional power" and "blue blood" that is Penn State football. I hope your garbage program hightails it to the ACC like your fans apparently desperately want (knowing you can't compete). Really saddened we didn't score 50 on Saturday. You are now a team that a 39pt win over is disappointing.. You're a basement dwelling, extra bye week, tune up game cupcake of a program. Purdue of the East in a division that includes Indiana, Rutgers and Maryland. F*ck Penn State.

Wow. Michigan fan letting it all hang out lol. :clap::clap::clap:
 
Penn State has a very mediocre football program. Have for 20 years, only overrated by namesake every year like Notre Dame (and like us from 2008-2014).

Which is a shame because the Big Ten is really strong this year it appears. Only to be dragged down by the likes of the "traditional power" and "blue blood" that is Penn State football. I hope your garbage program hightails it to the ACC like your fans apparently desperately want (knowing you can't compete). Really saddened we didn't score 50 on Saturday. You are now a team that a 39pt win over is disappointing.. You're a basement dwelling, extra bye week, tune up game cupcake of a program. Purdue of the East in a division that includes Indiana, Rutgers and Maryland. F*ck Penn State.

^^^^^^^^^^^ Forgets his team has one NC since 1950 as well as the most overrated coach of all time. Guess he also forgets that Dick Rod and Buffet Line Hoke ever existed.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^ Forgets his team has one NC since 1950 as well as the most overrated coach of all time. Guess he also forgets that Dick Rod and Buffet Line Hoke ever existed.

I remember those years clearly. Which is why I mentioned them in the first paragraph of my post. I also remember Michigan still having a winning record over Penn State the last 10 years.

You're not winning a pissing match over Michigan in terms of football. Not sure why you would bring up anything football related in your argument to talk down Michigan football. You're owned in every category.

13-7 Michigan head to head
.731 All time winning percentage (1st) to Penn State's .685
11 National Championships (3rd) to PSU's 4 with the latest still being more recent than yours.
929 wins (1st) to your 858.
78 All-Americans (4th) to your 41.
3 Heisman winners (5th) to your 1.
348 NFL draft picks (6th) to your 338.
42 first round draft picks (10th) to your 36.
812 weeks in the AP Top 25 (2nd) to your 591.
34 weeks as the AP #1 (11th) to your 21.

Literally the only significant categories Penn State can claim over Michigan is the number of bowl games and bowl game winning percentage. But that's almost exclusively due to the Big Ten not allowing anyone other than the conference champion to go to a bowl game (The Rose Bowl) and no one being able to go in back to back seasons up until the mid 70s.

And the most important stat of all:
Michigan 49, Penn State 10 in the latest meeting.

Michigan is also 3-0, outscoring Penn State 85-39 the last 3 meetings, including with Hoke in a season where he lost to Rutgers, Maryland and Minnesota.

So please explain why you're not a garbage program on the football field (you undoubtedly are off it) as of this moment?
 
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I remember those years clearly. Which is why I mentioned them in the first paragraph of my post. I also remember Michigan still having a winning record over Penn State the last 10 years.

You're not winning a pissing match over Michigan in terms of football. Not sure why you would bring up anything football related in your argument to talk down Michigan football. You're owned in every category.

13-7 Michigan head to head
.731 All time winning percentage (1st) to Penn State's .685
11 National Championships (3rd) to PSU's 4 with the latest still being more recent than yours.
929 wins (1st) to your 858.
78 All-Americans (4th) to your 41.
3 Heisman winners (5th) to your 1.
348 NFL draft picks (6th) to your 338.
42 first round draft picks (10th) to your 36.
812 weeks in the AP Top 25 (2nd) to your 591.
34 weeks as the AP #1 (11th) to your 21.

Literally the only significant categories Penn State can claim over Michigan is the number of bowl games and bowl game winning percentage. But that's almost exclusively due to the Big Ten not allowing anyone other than the conference champion to go to a bowl game (The Rose Bowl) and no one being able to go in back to back seasons up until the mid 70s.

And the most important stat of all:
Michigan 49, Penn State 10 in the latest meeting.

Michigan is also 3-0, outscoring Penn State 85-39 the last 3 meetings, including with Hoke in a season where he lost to Rutgers, Maryland and Minnesota.

So please explain why you're not a garbage program on the football field (you undoubtedly are off it) as of this moment?

That is about as thorough of an @ss whipping as I have ever seen on this board. Stop the fight now. It's over.
 
I remember those years clearly. Which is why I mentioned them in the first paragraph of my post. I also remember Michigan still having a winning record over Penn State the last 10 years.

You're not winning a pissing match over Michigan in terms of football. Not sure why you would bring up anything football related in your argument to talk down Michigan football. You're owned in every category.

13-7 Michigan head to head
.731 All time winning percentage (1st) to Penn State's .685
11 National Championships (3rd) to PSU's 4 with the latest still being more recent than yours.
929 wins (1st) to your 858.
78 All-Americans (4th) to your 41.
3 Heisman winners (5th) to your 1.
348 NFL draft picks (6th) to your 338.
42 first round draft picks (10th) to your 36.
812 weeks in the AP Top 25 (2nd) to your 591.
34 weeks as the AP #1 (11th) to your 21.

Literally the only significant categories Penn State can claim over Michigan is the number of bowl games and bowl game winning percentage. But that's almost exclusively due to the Big Ten not allowing anyone other than the conference champion to go to a bowl game (The Rose Bowl) and no one being able to go in back to back seasons up until the mid 70s.

And the most important stat of all:
Michigan 49, Penn State 10 in the latest meeting.

Michigan is also 3-0, outscoring Penn State 85-39 the last 3 meetings, including with Hoke in a season where he lost to Rutgers, Maryland and Minnesota.

So please explain why you're not a garbage program on the football field (you undoubtedly are off it) as of this moment?

As of this moment we are but you act like Michigan has been some type of juggernaut during our lifetimes. They haven't. In fact many Michigan fans think that Penn State looks a lot like Michigan a few years ago under Hoke.

Those stats are very telling if you want to go back to the beginning of time but the fact remains that Michigan has one national Championship (maybe) during your lifetime. That's it. The H2H and stats during our time in the B1G are the only thing that matters to me. Pretty sure you would win both of those categories.
 
I remember those years clearly. Which is why I mentioned them in the first paragraph of my post. I also remember Michigan still having a winning record over Penn State the last 10 years.

You're not winning a pissing match over Michigan in terms of football. Not sure why you would bring up anything football related in your argument to talk down Michigan football. You're owned in every category.

13-7 Michigan head to head
.731 All time winning percentage (1st) to Penn State's .685
11 National Championships (3rd) to PSU's 4 with the latest still being more recent than yours.
929 wins (1st) to your 858.
78 All-Americans (4th) to your 41.
3 Heisman winners (5th) to your 1.
348 NFL draft picks (6th) to your 338.
42 first round draft picks (10th) to your 36.
812 weeks in the AP Top 25 (2nd) to your 591.
34 weeks as the AP #1 (11th) to your 21.

Literally the only significant categories Penn State can claim over Michigan is the number of bowl games and bowl game winning percentage. But that's almost exclusively due to the Big Ten not allowing anyone other than the conference champion to go to a bowl game (The Rose Bowl) and no one being able to go in back to back seasons up until the mid 70s.

And the most important stat of all:
Michigan 49, Penn State 10 in the latest meeting.

Michigan is also 3-0, outscoring Penn State 85-39 the last 3 meetings, including with Hoke in a season where he lost to Rutgers, Maryland and Minnesota.

So please explain why you're not a garbage program on the football field (you undoubtedly are off it) as of this moment?
Sub-Zero_Mortal_Kombat_Spine_Rip_Fatality.jpg
 
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I hope your garbage program hightails it to the ACC like your fans apparently desperately want (knowing you can't compete).
I think the Cult is certified crackers but I find it hard to believe even those lunatics would want that. But I'm not about to hang out with them in order to confirm.
 
i also remember Michigan still having a winning record over Penn State the last 10 years.

Wrong.

2007: Michigan 14, Penn State 9
2008: Penn State 46, Michigan 17
2009: Penn State 35, Michigan 10
2010: Penn State 41, Michigan 31
2011: DNP
2012: DNP
2013: Penn State 43, Michigan 40
2014: Michigan 18, Penn State 13
2015: Michigan 28, Penn State 16
2016: Michigan 49, Penn State 10

That's 4-4, big guy, and congrats on finally repaying us for all those blowouts pre-sanctions. Speaking of, from 2011-2015, Michigan managed to win all of three more games than Penn State. There's no doubt Michigan looks like a power right now under Harbaugh, but let's stop acting like the Wolverines have been Alabama over the past five or 10 years.
 
@n1tlion i can't go through all of the mistakes in your posts but will point out one of the most misleading. Vandy went to bowls before Franklin. In fact, as late as 2008 they went to a bowl. And you talk about division 2 coaches. Your 5 million a year guy went to Fordham to find his OC.
 
Wrong.

2007: Michigan 14, Penn State 9
2008: Penn State 46, Michigan 17
2009: Penn State 35, Michigan 10
2010: Penn State 41, Michigan 31
2011: DNP
2012: DNP
2013: Penn State 43, Michigan 40
2014: Michigan 18, Penn State 13
2015: Michigan 28, Penn State 16
2016: Michigan 49, Penn State 10

I said last 10 years. Not last 10 seasons. Michigan has played Penn State 9 times within the last 10 years, winning 5. But can't expect a decent reading comprehension from Penn State fans. Also "Muh Sanctions!"
 
I said last 10 years. Not last 10 seasons. Michigan has played Penn State 9 times within the last 10 years, winning 5. But can't expect a decent reading comprehension from Penn State fans. Also "Muh Sanctions!"

It's counterintuitive to consider the past 10 years as anything other than the past 10 seasons when discussing sports. Write more clearly next time. :sunglasses:

Regardless, the idea that Penn State has been in the tank and Michigan has been some powerhouse over the past five or 10 years is simply incorrect.

Using your idea of 10 "years", here are the teams' records from 2005-2015...

Penn State: 96-44 (3rd in the B1G, 17th nationally)
Michigan: 83-56 (6th in the B1G, 35th nationally, incidentally one spot ahead of RU)

And yes, that's with PSU sanctions.

You should be smart enough to know these things are cyclical. All you need to do is look up Alabama's performance pre-Saban. Enjoy your upswing while it lasts.

By the way, records since PSU joined the B1G, 1993-2015...

Michigan: 194-93 (17th nationally)
Penn State: 192-93 (18th nationally)

Michigan and Penn State are both blue bloods, and yes, Michigan wins out comparing the all-time resumes, but for the past five, 10, 25 years the programs are very similar.
 
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The "Sanctions" are not nearly the excuse that the Penn State faithful hold it out to be. Some facts:

Year; National Ranking; Conference Ranking; # of recruits
2012; 46; 8; 23
2013; 33; 4; 16
2014; 24; 3; 26
2015; 15; 2; 25
2016; 20; 4; 20


As seen, Penn State has had 87 scholarship players over the last 4 years, and 110 the last 5 years.

Another interesting fact: Over Franklin’s first 3 years, they’ve recruited a total of 12 offensive linemen, exactly 3 in the top-250.

The only class really affected was the 2013 class; but there have been 3 classes ranked in the top 24 since then.
The 2012 class was already signed prior to the institution of sanctions.

At best, one class was affected by sanctions. Another class was affected by the worst scandal in history, and some abhorrent behavior by many that were associated with the school.

The Sanctions are not really a valid excuse. The awful scandal is a marginally better excuse (as it includes the 2012 class), but mostly their performance is a result of average recruiting that neglected some key positions, and likely sub-average player development.

In other words, the Sanctions alone being more in the past is not a reason by itself to expect to compete with the upper portion of the Big Ten. Only a significant change in program trajectory would accomplish that.
 
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It's counterintuitive to consider the past 10 years as anything other than the past 10 seasons when discussing sports. Write more clearly next time. :sunglasses:

Regardless, the idea that Penn State has been in the tank and Michigan has been some powerhouse over the past five or 10 years is simply incorrect.

Using your idea of 10 "years", here are the teams' records from 2005-2015...

Penn State: 96-44 (3rd in the B1G, 17th nationally)
Michigan: 83-56 (6th in the B1G, 35th nationally, incidentally one spot ahead of RU)

And yes, that's with PSU sanctions.

You should be smart enough to know these things are cyclical. All you need to do is look up Alabama's performance pre-Saban. Enjoy your upswing while it lasts.

By the way, records since PSU joined the B1G, 1993-2015...

Michigan: 194-93 (17th nationally)
Penn State: 192-93 (18th nationally)

Michigan and Penn State are both blue bloods, and yes, Michigan wins out comparing the all-time resumes, but for the past five, 10, 25 years the programs are very similar.

Objectively speaking, Michigan seemed to lose their luster after the '06 season when they played OSU the last week of the season in #1 vs. #2 which makes sense because the 2007 opener was the loss to App State. PSU's last great season on a national level was in 2005 when they beat FSU in the Orange Bowl and that was really the only LEGIT Penn State squad since the Arrington teams in the late '90's. Yeah UM had that one good year under Hoke, but year in, year out they haven't been at the level they are now in a decade.

IMO what has done Penn State football in over the past 16 years or so is them having gotten too flashy. I don't mean with offensive identity, because I feel bad that they were stuck running variations of the same 1980's pro style we were until JF got there. I just mean as a program in general. Michigan State is now using the recipe that PSU used in the 70's, 80's and early 90's...tough, physical, workmanlike football...while PSU has sort of become a poor man's Ohio State in my opinion, chasing recruiting class rankings instead of developing those hard nosed, blue collar types from the hills of central and western PA. I also know that demographics have changed and there aren't as many of those kind of kids to go around as there were 30 years or so ago. But when I watched "Green and White Days" this past August and saw Michigan State players wearing the green "mechanic" work shirts when they went out to the team dinner, it dawned on me that they have taken on the identity that in my opinion made Penn State great in their heyday.

All Sandusky/Paterno/Freeh Report jokes aside, I believe the culture of PSU football has changed over the past 20 years and not in the best way for them. All my friends who graduated from PSU agree with my theory but claim they had to go that route to try and compete with OSU and Michigan. However, it just doesn't suit them. Michigan State and Wisconsin own that blueprint now and they are competing (and sometimes beating) schools like Michigan and Ohio State over the past 8 years or so. And I'm excited because Ash seems to know that is the route he's going to have to take Rutgers to compete. Even located where we are in a fertile recruiting ground, no matter how good we get, we will NEVER line up and recruit toe to toe with the likes of OSU and Michigan on paper.
 
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The "Sanctions" are not nearly the excuse that the Penn State faithful hold it out to be. Some facts:

Year; National Ranking; Conference Ranking; # of recruits
2012; 46; 8; 23
2013; 33; 4; 16
2014; 24; 3; 26
2015; 15; 2; 25
2016; 20; 4; 20


As seen, Penn State has had 87 scholarship players over the last 4 years, and 110 the last 5 years.

Another interesting fact: Over Franklin’s first 3 years, they’ve recruited a total of 12 offensive linemen, exactly 3 in the top-250.

The only class really affected was the 2013 class; but there have been 3 classes ranked in the top 24 since then.
The 2012 class was already signed prior to the institution of sanctions.

At best, one class was affected by sanctions. Another class was affected by the worst scandal in history, and some abhorrent behavior by many that were associated with the school.

The Sanctions are not really a valid excuse. The awful scandal is a marginally better excuse (as it includes the 2012 class), but mostly their performance is a result of average recruiting that neglected some key positions, and likely sub-average player development.

In other words, the Sanctions alone being more in the past is not a reason by itself to expect to compete with the upper portion of the Big Ten. Only a significant change in program trajectory would accomplish that.

Seriously? I've never said the sanctions were the ONLY reason Penn State has been mediocre over the past five seasons. But to minimize the impact is absurd.

The sanctions immediately cost Penn State its starting running back (Silas Reed) and a 4-star DT recruit from the 2012 class (Jamil Pollard).

In 2013, the sanctions led Dorian Johnson to Pitt. Think the PSU offensive line could use him? How many other kids who would have otherwise signed with PSU? It's impossible to quantify that, but common sense says there's at least a handful. Further, only six members from that 2013 have made a significant contribution to this point. The 2014 class makes up the bulk of the roster right now, and a number of players in that and subsequent classes were forced into early action when they would have been better served with a redshirt year.

Shifting to your comments on Franklin's OL recruiting. Obviously, it's been well-documented that he walked into a situation in which he couldn't even complete a two-deep. Being hired in January, the new staff was up against Signing Day and no doubt reached on three kids in Sorrell, Wright, and Beh that don't appear poised to contribute on the field maybe at all. In 2015, things got better with Bates, who looks like he'll be a four-year starter on the interior, and Jenkins, who has the body of an NFL left tackle if he can put it all together. And then you have the 2016 class of Menet, who the staff is trying to redshirt and profiles as a four-year starter; McGovern, who is starting now at RG; and Fries and Gellerstedt, who the staff likes (especially Fries).

I guess that's a long way of saying I think you're off base if you were criticizing the OL recruiting overall. It was a deep hole to climb out of, and they're getting closer, but the most talented kids are also the youngest. It remains a work in progress. In fact, that can describe a lot of what's happening at Penn State right now: work in progress. A lot of things need to improve, including the coaching, but the sanctions were real, the inability to field a proper two-deep was real, the virtual lack of senior leadership is real, the second youngest roster in the country is real.

tl;dr In 2012 and 2013, the sanctions had a large impact on recruiting and a much smaller one on the field. Since then, the recruiting has been much less affected (and Franklin et al. are the best recruiters Penn State has had in a long time, which also helps) but the on-field product still suffers (OL, lack of depth in key spots like LB, the youth, especially compared with a team like Michigan, which has a number of senior and even fifth-year seniors as starters). That part will continue to improve, and if it doesn't make major strides by the end of NEXT season, Franklin's seat is going to get very hot, very quickly.
 
The "Sanctions" are not nearly the excuse that the Penn State faithful hold it out to be. Some facts:

Year; National Ranking; Conference Ranking; # of recruits
2012; 46; 8; 23
2013; 33; 4; 16
2014; 24; 3; 26
2015; 15; 2; 25
2016; 20; 4; 20

Let's also take a closer look at this data by providing some context. It's one thing to look at PSU's raw roster data from 2012-2016 in a vacuum, but here it is in relation to that of Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State:

Class rankings in B1G

Ohio State: 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st
Michigan: 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 2nd
Michigan State: 5th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 3rd
Penn State: 8th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 4th

And total scholarships over those five years...
Ohio State: 137
Michigan: 137
Michigan State: 106
Penn State: 110

That puts PSU an entire class behind OSU and UM.

Now let's take a look at just the 2012-2014 classes, kids who would be in their third to fifth year in the program, thus seemingly making up the backbone of the roster:

Ohio State: 86
Michigan: 95
Michigan State: 65
Penn State: 65

That's another sizable advantage for OSU and UM, and then consider we've already established that PSU's 2012 class was not very good and the 2013 class was very small and has few contributors left in the program.

Do things outside of the sanctions at PSU have to improve for the program to get back to the upper echelon of the conference? Yes. But the sanctions absolutely impacted the roster. Arguing otherwise is ridiculous.
 
Let's also take a closer look at this data by providing some context. It's one thing to look at PSU's raw roster data from 2012-2016 in a vacuum, but here it is in relation to that of Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State:

Class rankings in B1G

Ohio State: 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st
Michigan: 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 2nd
Michigan State: 5th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 3rd
Penn State: 8th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 4th

And total scholarships over those five years...
Ohio State: 137
Michigan: 137
Michigan State: 106
Penn State: 110

That puts PSU an entire class behind OSU and UM.

Now let's take a look at just the 2012-2014 classes, kids who would be in their third to fifth year in the program, thus seemingly making up the backbone of the roster:

Ohio State: 86
Michigan: 95
Michigan State: 65
Penn State: 65

That's another sizable advantage for OSU and UM, and then consider we've already established that PSU's 2012 class was not very good and the 2013 class was very small and has few contributors left in the program.

Do things outside of the sanctions at PSU have to improve for the program to get back to the upper echelon of the conference? Yes. But the sanctions absolutely impacted the roster. Arguing otherwise is ridiculous.
Let's also take a closer look at this data by providing some context. It's one thing to look at PSU's raw roster data from 2012-2016 in a vacuum, but here it is in relation to that of Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State:

Class rankings in B1G

Ohio State: 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st
Michigan: 2nd, 2nd, 2nd, 5th, 2nd
Michigan State: 5th, 5th, 4th, 3rd, 3rd
Penn State: 8th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, 4th

And total scholarships over those five years...
Ohio State: 137
Michigan: 137
Michigan State: 106
Penn State: 110

That puts PSU an entire class behind OSU and UM.

Now let's take a look at just the 2012-2014 classes, kids who would be in their third to fifth year in the program, thus seemingly making up the backbone of the roster:

Ohio State: 86
Michigan: 95
Michigan State: 65
Penn State: 65

That's another sizable advantage for OSU and UM, and then consider we've already established that PSU's 2012 class was not very good and the 2013 class was very small and has few contributors left in the program.

Do things outside of the sanctions at PSU have to improve for the program to get back to the upper echelon of the conference? Yes. But the sanctions absolutely impacted the roster. Arguing otherwise is ridiculous.
Using that argument, you will never beat Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State because you will never out recruit them.
 
What DID concern me about this one is how the team seemed to play scared as the game went on, kicking meaningless field goals, not attempting fourth down conversions, etc..
.
Hey we just had a guy like that. He liked moral victories as well. Thank God he's gone. Also I see your still harping on your sanctions argument. How long is that one going to be good for? I know you'll probably tell me till next year. By then we should be back to full strength.:rolleyes:
 
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Seriously? I've never said the sanctions were the ONLY reason Penn State has been mediocre over the past five seasons. But to minimize the impact is absurd.

The sanctions immediately cost Penn State its starting running back (Silas Reed) and a 4-star DT recruit from the 2012 class (Jamil Pollard).

In 2013, the sanctions led Dorian Johnson to Pitt. Think the PSU offensive line could use him? How many other kids who would have otherwise signed with PSU? It's impossible to quantify that, but common sense says there's at least a handful. Further, only six members from that 2013 have made a significant contribution to this point. The 2014 class makes up the bulk of the roster right now, and a number of players in that and subsequent classes were forced into early action when they would have been better served with a redshirt year.

Shifting to your comments on Franklin's OL recruiting. Obviously, it's been well-documented that he walked into a situation in which he couldn't even complete a two-deep. Being hired in January, the new staff was up against Signing Day and no doubt reached on three kids in Sorrell, Wright, and Beh that don't appear poised to contribute on the field maybe at all. In 2015, things got better with Bates, who looks like he'll be a four-year starter on the interior, and Jenkins, who has the body of an NFL left tackle if he can put it all together. And then you have the 2016 class of Menet, who the staff is trying to redshirt and profiles as a four-year starter; McGovern, who is starting now at RG; and Fries and Gellerstedt, who the staff likes (especially Fries).

I guess that's a long way of saying I think you're off base if you were criticizing the OL recruiting overall. It was a deep hole to climb out of, and they're getting closer, but the most talented kids are also the youngest. It remains a work in progress. In fact, that can describe a lot of what's happening at Penn State right now: work in progress. A lot of things need to improve, including the coaching, but the sanctions were real, the inability to field a proper two-deep was real, the virtual lack of senior leadership is real, the second youngest roster in the country is real.

tl;dr In 2012 and 2013, the sanctions had a large impact on recruiting and a much smaller one on the field. Since then, the recruiting has been much less affected (and Franklin et al. are the best recruiters Penn State has had in a long time, which also helps) but the on-field product still suffers (OL, lack of depth in key spots like LB, the youth, especially compared with a team like Michigan, which has a number of senior and even fifth-year seniors as starters). That part will continue to improve, and if it doesn't make major strides by the end of NEXT season, Franklin's seat is going to get very hot, very quickly.
Ok , ok I guess we will have to judge Franklin in year 2022 but I think he may be gone by 2017-18.
 
Using that argument, you will never beat Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State because you will never out recruit them.

I feel that Penn State does out recruit Michigan State on paper, but not the other two. But let them keep trying. See my post above about how Wisky and MSU now have the "mojo" that Penn State once had. The formula of recruiting, developing and scheming up with physical, tough, smart, disciplined football players is now being used by other programs in the conference and they are achieving success with it. Penn State seemed to abandon that philosophy in pursuit of "stars" some time ago.
 
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Hey we just had a guy like that. He liked moral victories as well. Thank God he's gone. Also I see your still harping on your sanctions argument. How long is that one going to be good for? I know you'll probably tell me till next year. By then we should be back to full strength.:rolleyes:
Every year, it's next year. Some of the fans are smarter and just say 2 more years.
 
Using that argument, you will never beat Ohio State, Michigan and Michigan State because you will never out recruit them.

The reason Ped State will never out recruit those 3: the negative recruiting claims by Franklin and their AD. That has to be the most laughable statement yet from those dipsh!ts. Of course he changed his tune when confronted by Urban at the BIG meetings. I challenge ANY Ped State fan to name ONE recruit that has committed to the Buckeyes in the 2017 class that was even remotely interested in PSU. The only one that they could have banged heads over is L. Wade and he's basically an OSU backup plan and probably going to Pitt anyways. Biggest bunch of whiners ad excuse makers in the country.
 
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