Lots of people just pushing Corey out the door, which always worries me when it comes to next year.
If Corey parts at season's end
- Thread starter jerzeyguy
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I sat next to a USCe grad that was returning from international ball and was done never planning to work again. This guy played for 3 leagues a year and never spent a penny. Lived with his parents when in us and real cheap abroad.he was 38. That’s a players only option without a degree even though this guy had one.
I think long run we will be better off...face it this team isnt going to any post season next year. I might rather take lump next year getting a head start on life post Corey than have to face it in 2019-2020, would rather get us ahead of the game. I do not have any illusions that we will see a different Corey next year...we will see the same inconsistent up and down...capable of giving us some thrilling wins and upset here or there but also capable of not showing up against the non conference part of the schedule and showing immaturity
I am not wishing him to go Im just saying its not the end of the world,
Only better off if a competent PG comes in to replace him.There isn't anyone on the roster that can play the PG position like him, that I can think of.
RU might not make the post season next year even with Corey playing, but without Sanders , RU might not look that desirable because the team doesn't look like it can even compete against the cupcakes it scheduled.
That might be an exaggeration, but without someone to take Cory's place and do it close to how he did ( inconsistencies and all) RUMBB might look like a program that recruits go to that have limited options
Pikiell without Sanders might look more like Jordan & Littlepage than RU fans care to see, if Corey 's talent as RU's PG isn't replaced as easy as thought.
count me in the "I want Corey back in a big way" category.
Very few European rookies from the USA make 6 figures....try less than half that typically. Now, its tax free and most guys "live" for free...but it's not always the best situation, depending on the country and level of play.
If you knew what CJ Gettys signed for, it would shock you. He's gonna get a nice raise because he's performed so well, but it's still going to be nowhere near what you might think.
Playing in Europe is a roll of the dice for a lot of guys. With the recent contract upgrades in the G League, that option is a lot more palatable to the better US talent that's not superstar caliber
Couldn't disagree more.
- It's only 1 year so the long run doesn't come into play unless Corey returning somehow costs us some blue chip high school senior which ain't happenin' at this late date anyway.
- I'm sick and tired of taking lumps and don't want to sign up to take any more than necessary.
- He's capable of giving us some thrilling wins which last time I checked NO ONE else on next year's roster will be capable of doing in 2018-19. The win-loss record matters (especially for a coach going into his third year) and our record will be better with Corey than without.
- Our backcourt next year without Corey is Geo, Mathis, Souf, and probably some late signing leftover not in Corey's class.
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But we probably would have lost by fifty to everyone. Progress isn’t just measured by wins and losses. But hey, glass half empty
He needs to go. It will be good for everyone. The team will be fine. They will learn to play a better brand of ball without him and will be pushed to have New alpha dogs rise up to be primary scorers. The sooner we finally go through this transition the better for the program. And to help out at point guard next year just sign a grad transfer
Can any of those alpha dogs put the ball in the basket? We have no one on the team that can put the ball in the basket right now but the team will be "fine" without him? He's our best player right now and only has one year left and people want to dump him for some unknown grad transfer. Because everyone knows how "team first" a grad transfer coming to a losing program will be.
Sanders' presence next year helps develop Baker, Mathis, and Kiss - so his return would pay dividends even after he graduates. Makes no sense for some "fans" to try to push him out the door.
If Corey leaves we'd be losing 3 of our most aggressive offensive players in Freeman, Williams and Sanders.
Other than Baker, Omoruyi and Bullock, all other returning players are too timid offensively and are afraid to shoot.
We have to hope every new recruit has a scoring mentality and at least looks for their shot and establishes themselves as a scoring threat.
Other than Baker, Omoruyi and Bullock, all other returning players are too timid offensively and are afraid to shoot.
We have to hope every new recruit has a scoring mentality and at least looks for their shot and establishes themselves as a scoring threat.
Couple of things on the “just bring in a grad transfer” crowd:
1) What good point guard grad transfer is going to come here when it doesn’t look like RU will be an NCAA team next year? It would not be a great player.
2) I don’t get the sense that Pikiell is a fan of bringing in grad transfers...certainly not at this point in the build. I think he’d much prefer to bring in someone he could develop over time. There are a couple of names out there (like, say, Diego Willis) that I could see Pikiell trying to land over a grad transfer. One of the things Pikiell mentions about Peter Kiss is how he has 3 years of eligibility left.
3) PG is the hardest position on the court to learn. While big men have to learn their bodies and coordination, a PG is like a Quarterback, and has to know all the plays and where everyone is at all times on offense. Bringing in a grad transfer means a lot of a tougher OOC is him learning the offense at game speed.
4) If Corey leaves, I’m willing to roll the dice with Geo at the point for a year. He’s a smart player and he makes solid entry passes to the post. A starting 5 of Doucoure, Omoruyi, Thiam, Mathis, and Geo with Carter and Kiss as first off the bench isn’t that bad a look.
1) What good point guard grad transfer is going to come here when it doesn’t look like RU will be an NCAA team next year? It would not be a great player.
2) I don’t get the sense that Pikiell is a fan of bringing in grad transfers...certainly not at this point in the build. I think he’d much prefer to bring in someone he could develop over time. There are a couple of names out there (like, say, Diego Willis) that I could see Pikiell trying to land over a grad transfer. One of the things Pikiell mentions about Peter Kiss is how he has 3 years of eligibility left.
3) PG is the hardest position on the court to learn. While big men have to learn their bodies and coordination, a PG is like a Quarterback, and has to know all the plays and where everyone is at all times on offense. Bringing in a grad transfer means a lot of a tougher OOC is him learning the offense at game speed.
4) If Corey leaves, I’m willing to roll the dice with Geo at the point for a year. He’s a smart player and he makes solid entry passes to the post. A starting 5 of Doucoure, Omoruyi, Thiam, Mathis, and Geo with Carter and Kiss as first off the bench isn’t that bad a look.
A basketball team playing in a power conference without shooters/scorers has no place to hide with or without Sanders.
The recruiting of a LOT of swingman/wings and guard/forward hybrids in the 6'5" range, tells me that we are looking at a lot more movement of the ball next year, if Sanders departs.
Next year will be interesting in either case....I think Sanders is coming back because it's his best option....AND it will be up to Sanders to not take a sabbatical for training in California training for the draft (which he cannot declare for again and return) and stick around. While Corey is the most talented player by a lot, he has to improve on the following
A) becoming more aware of the mental part of the game on how to stop scoring runs against RU, when teams are scoring....that's done by staying within the team concept.....
B) how to draw fouls by "jump stopping/pump faking" to get quicker/taller defenders in the air and stop the clock, by getting to the foul line.....taking difficult running shots/layups, vs the more difficult item of drawing contact, is something he has to do more of.
C) To Sanders credit, he makes plays creatively, but has lacked wings or players that can take his passing abilities to score....Baker and Mike Williams are the only multi-dimensional players that can catch and shoot AND if that is taken away from him, place the ball on the floor, dribble, drive and pass, or drive and score or create space..... and Baker is more adept at that, moreso than Williams, who has worked hard to get that additional aspect to his game....that makes it difficult for any coaching staff to stress moving of the ball, when the players don't have that skill set.
If you replace Bullock and/or Mensah, you have the ability to add another shooting or guard that can move the ball (Diego Willis, Alan Griffin or a couple of other names that will likely surface that are being followed by the staff at 6'4 to 6'6", that can shoot and score off the dribble)......that will help next year.
Sanders will have more than enough players that can dribble, pass and shoot next year....(Baker, Mathis, Kiss and additional guard TBD)....There should be enough players to help Sanders to not have to dominate the ball every possession..........can he evolve beyond the player asked to create on every possession??? Can he move the ball and feel comfortable enough that it will move and get shared enough...
OR
Will it turn into a situation where underclassmen and the coaching staff aren't able to get that movement of the ball enough and the players stand and watch Corey create??
These are learning curve items that the staff has to sort out and Sanders has to sort out.....it's scary to think "addition by subtraction", but we lost Gettys, Nigel Johnson, Laurent and Diallo and are essentially the same roster and are playing better this year with additions like Doucoure and Baker...improvements by Eugene etc......On paper we should be worse....Sanders is a little better, but Baker is a LOT better at doing other things that Nigel Johnson wasn't able to beyond scoring.
Ironically, games like tonight vs Northwestern are litmus tests for Sanders, not to just have a good game.......he's capable of getting his shot against McIntosh and Northwestern on most possessions....winning and playing a complete game on both ends of the court is the expectation for the rest of this year and into next year....if that can't happen more consistently or against Northwestern, at Maryland and home for Illinois, then what exactly are we giving up next year??
I think the last 5-6-7+ games tell us a lot about what next year looks like....Sanders will be the focal point yet again by teams looking to stop him.....we now have Eugene and Mike back for some minutes tonight........can he make the right play, with Baker....take good shots....get to the FT....or will he try to make difficult running layups, tough fall away jump shots....??
Next year will be interesting in either case....I think Sanders is coming back because it's his best option....AND it will be up to Sanders to not take a sabbatical for training in California training for the draft (which he cannot declare for again and return) and stick around. While Corey is the most talented player by a lot, he has to improve on the following
A) becoming more aware of the mental part of the game on how to stop scoring runs against RU, when teams are scoring....that's done by staying within the team concept.....
B) how to draw fouls by "jump stopping/pump faking" to get quicker/taller defenders in the air and stop the clock, by getting to the foul line.....taking difficult running shots/layups, vs the more difficult item of drawing contact, is something he has to do more of.
C) To Sanders credit, he makes plays creatively, but has lacked wings or players that can take his passing abilities to score....Baker and Mike Williams are the only multi-dimensional players that can catch and shoot AND if that is taken away from him, place the ball on the floor, dribble, drive and pass, or drive and score or create space..... and Baker is more adept at that, moreso than Williams, who has worked hard to get that additional aspect to his game....that makes it difficult for any coaching staff to stress moving of the ball, when the players don't have that skill set.
If you replace Bullock and/or Mensah, you have the ability to add another shooting or guard that can move the ball (Diego Willis, Alan Griffin or a couple of other names that will likely surface that are being followed by the staff at 6'4 to 6'6", that can shoot and score off the dribble)......that will help next year.
Sanders will have more than enough players that can dribble, pass and shoot next year....(Baker, Mathis, Kiss and additional guard TBD)....There should be enough players to help Sanders to not have to dominate the ball every possession..........can he evolve beyond the player asked to create on every possession??? Can he move the ball and feel comfortable enough that it will move and get shared enough...
OR
Will it turn into a situation where underclassmen and the coaching staff aren't able to get that movement of the ball enough and the players stand and watch Corey create??
These are learning curve items that the staff has to sort out and Sanders has to sort out.....it's scary to think "addition by subtraction", but we lost Gettys, Nigel Johnson, Laurent and Diallo and are essentially the same roster and are playing better this year with additions like Doucoure and Baker...improvements by Eugene etc......On paper we should be worse....Sanders is a little better, but Baker is a LOT better at doing other things that Nigel Johnson wasn't able to beyond scoring.
Ironically, games like tonight vs Northwestern are litmus tests for Sanders, not to just have a good game.......he's capable of getting his shot against McIntosh and Northwestern on most possessions....winning and playing a complete game on both ends of the court is the expectation for the rest of this year and into next year....if that can't happen more consistently or against Northwestern, at Maryland and home for Illinois, then what exactly are we giving up next year??
I think the last 5-6-7+ games tell us a lot about what next year looks like....Sanders will be the focal point yet again by teams looking to stop him.....we now have Eugene and Mike back for some minutes tonight........can he make the right play, with Baker....take good shots....get to the FT....or will he try to make difficult running layups, tough fall away jump shots....??
I think a lot of people are just preparing for the departure. If Sanders does leave, the sky is not falling.
Like others mentioned, Baker can run the point guard. In fact, I prefer him to over Sanders.
Anyone watch a game with Carter recently?
Something like Baker, Kiss, Thiam, Omoyuri, Carter looks serviceable to me.
First off bench Mathis.
Like others mentioned, Baker can run the point guard. In fact, I prefer him to over Sanders.
Anyone watch a game with Carter recently?
Something like Baker, Kiss, Thiam, Omoyuri, Carter looks serviceable to me.
First off bench Mathis.
Geo, Mathis, Souf, Kiss* Assming Souf stays, two ball handlers..You can bet that if Mensah was to leave, Pikiell would scramble far and wide for another ball handler.
One thing I feel Corey has done this year....was stay back in the first half and see if the others were making shots...then stepping on it (or trying to) in the 2nd half. Maybe trying to save some gas for Defense and more bounding. With Mike and EO out he had to try and go from the beginning.
I'm just saying that with better shooters/team players around him next year he can really be THAT player who doesn't have to be THAT player. And put it together.
I'm just saying that with better shooters/team players around him next year he can really be THAT player who doesn't have to be THAT player. And put it together.
I’ve never seen a fan base not want their best player to play as a senior. That’s how you win. We never have our best player play four years it’s a rarity on the banks.
We just want to see a winning team. Unfortunately that's probably not happening next year, so if Sanders leaving accelerates the timeline even a little bit...
That's the point we're making.
That's the point we're making.
But it doesn't. Sanders leaving slows the timeline for 2019-20, as it limits the development of our other guards during 2018-19.
We will not be better off in the long run. Having Corey back next year makes us better during games and creates much more competition on the practice floor. The future improvement of the team will be better off with the new guys having to compete with Corey everyday during practice.
One area where Corey has improved this year is his pull up jumper from around the foul line. I would like to see what part of his game improves next year.
This.
Without Corey next year, our ballhandling will be a big problem (short of Quinerly signing and staying eligible). Baker is fine as a part-time PG, but I prefer him as a SG, and moreover, one guy cannot carry the team from a ballhandling standpoint. Who plays behind Baker at PG in the Corey leaving scenario? Do people want Souf playing anything more than garbage minutes next year?
With Corey, we have a potential NIT team:
PG (40) - Sanders (32), Baker (8)
SG (40) - Baker (22), Mathis/Kiss (18)
SF (40) - Thiam (26), Kiss/Mathis (10), Harper (4)
PF/C (80) - Omoruyi (24), Carter (24), Doucoure (20), Doorson/Johnson (12)
Deep bench (0) - Bullock (0), Mensah (0)
Let's stop the cycle of our best players leaving before they graduate. I want to see Corey as a 4th-year Senior next year leading this team. I think there will be more "pieces" on the wing with Mathis, Kiss and Harper, and hopefully additional improvement from Thiam and Baker, and Corey won't have to run around the perimeter while the entire defense swarms him.
I disagree. More time on the court is going to help their development more than going against Sanders in practice or whatever else.
I've gone back and forth on this a few times and ultimately I don't think it makes a huge difference. I *think* that Corey's senior season would be more productive than anything we get from whatever freshman we can get at this point fills his scholarship but I honestly can't say that for sure. I think the ideal is that Sanders stays and we get someone like Aundre Hyatt filling the scholarship of a different departing player.
But he's such an inefficient scorer that it's impossible to say for sure that him coming back makes us better. If we could get the best versions of him in terms of ballhandling, defense, and shooting, then of course he does. But his shooting numbers are so bad that I can see the argument in favor of him leaving.
Four year starters don't come around every day. Freshmen develop faster when there are experienced seniors on the team to guide them - both on the court, on the practice court, navigating the pressures of school/interviews, etc.
Without Sanders on the court next year, our backcourt is a Soph, RS Soph, and Frosh... and possibly another Frosh depending on what is done with that scholarship.
There's no question that a Sr. Sanders will be more productive than anything we get from a freshman - because we're not getting a one and done 5* guy coming in who can perform as well as a freshman as a 4-year starter. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Also, the shooting numbers are frequently because he's asked to be "the guy" with 6 seconds left on the clock and everyone on the defense knowing he's not going to pass it. With more scorers, he should be in that situation less, and his FG% should improve.
People were saying 6 weeks ago that Geo had hit a wall. Imagine him as the primary ball handler (which I don't think he is suited for at all) AND also being asked to carry a major scoring load. Absurd to think this team is better without a Senior Corey. Absurd.
Someone explain how it accelerates the timeline.
Why in the world are we pushing out our best player who will be senior out the door?
I think 27 years of losing have driven us crazy! It’s the only explanation.
Stop the madness!!!
Corey Sanders needs to be here next season.
I'm not sure what those who think otherwise are watching. This isn't a Sanders being selfish situation. He's doing what he has been coached to do to the best of his ability.
Love the kid, love his game and want the kid to graduate. If all things go right, he won't have to carry virtually the entire roster on his shoulders...and we will be drastically improved as a unit
Corey Sanders needs to be here next season.
I'm not sure what those who think otherwise are watching. This isn't a Sanders being selfish situation. He's doing what he has been coached to do to the best of his ability.
Love the kid, love his game and want the kid to graduate. If all things go right, he won't have to carry virtually the entire roster on his shoulders...and we will be drastically improved as a unit
I distinctly remember reading on this site how we’d be a more complete team after Douby left. True story
i think it would be nice to have him around next season...
This. No other post needs to be made. Anything other than this thought process is ridiculous.
I tend to agree with BK here. It is easy to become frustrated with the inconsistency. I have been guilty of it myself. From my perspective, however, I believe that as we add talent, and folks already in the program gain experience, it will enable Sanders to be more consistent. Having a legitimate inside presence on offense would enhance Sanders' overall performance. I am a fan of Doucoure and believe we will see a nice jump next season on the offensive end. Carter should help as well in terms of an inside offensive presence.
Extremely difficult for Sanders to be the only truly significant offensive talent. I think that changes next season. Do I envision an NCAA tourney team - no. But I do think we could be an NIT team with Sanders back.
This NW game is why nobody should be suggesting that we would be better off without Corey next year.
Money tonight.
Money tonight.
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