You compared the football team losing to 8-4 Navy to the basketball team (with 2 lottery picks) losing to (Q3/Q4) Kennesaw State. Lol Not even remotely close to the same thing. But I don’t “relent?” Lol Gotcha.
If Pikiell gets fired, Schiano should go with him
- Thread starter Rutgers1987
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I don’t think you’re making the point you think you’re making if you’re comparing this year’s basketball team to the 2010 RU football team.
My whole point is this year should be different. I didn’t expect final four. Heck I didn’t even expect 16 since the tournament is random and matchup dependent. But we should comfortably make the tournament with Dylan Harper and Ace Bailey.
Schiano 1.0 is old news. If your going to attempt to compare tenures - you need to focus on the current rebuilds for evaluation. Greg is perfect against cupcakes since returning. There is nothing to point to there. Your argument for Pike must center around knocking off top teams like Purdue which we haven’t yet done in football. But again - can’t mention the upset wins and ignore the embarrassing losses. That would be cherry picking.
Also - one coach is in year 5. The other is in year 9. There’s a big difference.
he’s made 3 ncaa tournament appearances in his 20 years of being a head coach. he’s mediocre at best. again, I do appreciate that he has “steadied the ship” of our program and made us respectable, but at some point results have to matter.
I agree the numbers in my post make it sound more different than it is; those are the "mitigating factors" I kind of handwaved at in my post. That said, as far as I can tell:
49 of 70 (70%) of power conference football teams have 6+ wins this year
By my count 35 of 80 (44%) of power conference (P5 + Big East) basketball teams made the tournament last year
I would give coaches a pass for their first three years. So if we are grading purely on pass/fail (where a bowl or NCAA = pass and other = fail) then Greg is 2-0 so far (Gator Bowl doesn't count, but the 3-6 record in 2020 could in theory have been good enough for a bowl depending on what our OOC would've looked like)
Pike is 3-2 (gets credit for 2020 imo) and trending pretty heavily toward 3-3.
Greg 1.0 was 6-2.
FWIW, if people did not remember that Greg 2 was the same person as Greg 1 he would currently be viewed much more positively around here.
Both the big wins and terrible losses are much more likely in basketball (as I think you know, but pointing out in general).
Oregon would absolutely murder us basically every single time, but if we got Auburn into the RAC we would have some real chance to beat them. But by the same token our football team would murder a Kennesaw type team basically every single time as well.
You constructed a strawman that you now want me to defend. I never said ANY of that, nor did I intimate any of that. My sole point — SOLE POINT — was that bad losses happen. That’s it and that’s all. To which you and biazza seem incapable of admitting or accepting; and we won’t get into the reasons why that would be bc it would probably require psychotherapy
He is thriving compared to anyone else on the roster not named Dylan. He's woefully inconsistent and needs to add size. But at times he can carry us. He just doesn't do it enough or consistently
ceiling 6 but probably won’t happen. then GS gets another raise and extension because Cam Spencer left early and our new Rutgers Al Fieldhouse blueprint has it facing east instead of north.
Schiano always behind the 8 ball, poor guy.
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First off, you used 8-4 Navy as a bad loss. And then you realize how stupid of an example that was.
Then you gave 2010 Tulane. That’s your problem. You’re comparing this years basketball team to a 2010 RU team with a depleted offensive line (Also non portal era so we couldn’t fill the gaps).Bad losses happen. But this year’s team shouldn’t have multiple losses that compare to the 2010 football team losing to Tulane.
This is my issue. We have Dylan Harper and Ace Bailey and we’re still racking up losses to teams like DePaul, Lehigh, Umass, etc. We’ve never had a football team with 40% lottery/1st picks on it.
It doesn’t take psychotherapy to understand the difference here. We continue to lollygag in the early third of our season and put us in the hole to make the tournament. Football team aside, what we’ve seen so far this season in unacceptable. And for some reason people seem okay with that. If this was any other year I wouldn’t be upset. Progress isn’t linear. Most coaches experience ups and downs during their tenure somewhere. This shouldn’t be a season where we have a low.
Goal posts can (and always will be) moved to fit the desired narrative. It's easy. Whatever reality you ignored or denied earlier, you just continue to double down on later and insist that it didn't happen because of the same issues you denied as being issues earlier. They have it down to a science. Nothing to ever see here and we are so blessed to be able to experience mediocrity. And if that doesn't work for you, well, we can always move the goalposts further if that helps you.
Why a big difference ? 5, 9 or 25. Plenty of time to build a winner. That’s why contracts are usually for 5 years, not 8, with underperforming coaches being fired and paid off before that.
Schiano only needs to have more wins than 40 other teams. Pike needs a better resume than 240 with more strong conferences competing.
You are missing the point. I’m not denying that bad losses happen.
A team with Ace Bailey and Dylan Harper should not experience the same lumps that these bad football teams you’re comparing them to. It shouldn’t be difficult to build around them. Failing to make the tournament is a huge failure.
I like both coaches but to make the comparison is just not equal. Having Dylan and Ace would be like Greg bringing in a Georgia or Bama recruiting class and not making a bowl in the first 2 years.
Pike has maybe the best college player in Dylan and a top 5 lottery pick in Ace...That is 40% of his roster. Once in a lifetime at Rutgers. If he misses the tourny, it may be the biggest sports failure at Rutgers I have seen. And it doesn't seem as if he is doing anything to right the ship- just "hoping" it clicks.
Pike has maybe the best college player in Dylan and a top 5 lottery pick in Ace...That is 40% of his roster. Once in a lifetime at Rutgers. If he misses the tourny, it may be the biggest sports failure at Rutgers I have seen. And it doesn't seem as if he is doing anything to right the ship- just "hoping" it clicks.
And up until this past year- our football team has been facing one of the toughest schedules in america each year...
Greg is now to where Pike was when Pike got to March Madness the first time. This is the point where we see if GS 2.0 improves from there, pulls in a top 5 class and then craps the bed or wins.
Because- since Pike made the Tourny, he has not improved since then and he should have.
An individual player matters more to the outcome of a basketball game than a FB game with the exception of the QB. So while we have 1 exceptional bb player and another with great potential we have several exceptionally poor high major players who are the reason the team isn’t any good. Acuff, Derkack, Davis, Hayes and Martini weigh down the scale in the wrong direction. If just two or three of them were legit high major players, we’d be ok. But having all five anchors in the rotation is just too much to overcome. That’s Pike’s miss.
a good fb team could survive multiple weak links. A bb team can’t.
You just like to keep arguing stupid points after someone more knowledgeable than you has already clearly pointed out where you are wrong
Which point has Shelby repeated ? This is his first comparing Pike to Schiano. He doesnt think Schiano will be a consistent winner but Pike did whiff on all the portal players this year and that’s why the team is already DOA as a tourney contender.
Think it’s kind of similar to the years after the 06 team started to graduate and Greg stagnated a bit.
Greg hasn’t had to deal with an entirely new roster at once.
I’ll say again..pikiell has been much more successful then Greg.
Greg is much more popular by the fanbase…despite his lack of success. That’s why he’s safe.
Greg is much more popular by the fanbase…despite his lack of success. That’s why he’s safe.
we’ve been to the round of 32 once in 8 seasons. “much more successful” is a bit of a stretch
we’ve been ranked numerous times. (None in greg 2.0) we’ve beat many top 25 teams (none in Greg 2.0). Neither program has been very successful, but basketball has certainly been more and it’s not really debatable in my opinion.
Pike is safe too - at least for a couple more seasons.
Has out recruited him as well.
And I think Greg has done a perfectly fine job (this game notwithstanding…)
Run stuff for Ace and occasionally post him up and he'll will be great. As a staff, you either can't do this or you don't want to do it. If the former is true then the staff just sucks, which maybe it does - the latter, you've got to question what's going on upstairs.
That’s not fair. Major connections involved with Dylan and Ace. Basketball hasn’t out recruited any other year. And we’ve done better in the portal with football. I’m not sayin football is clearly ahead just that it’s not behind. At the moment I have more confidence in Greg being able to keep us out of the basement for a sustained period. In my mind that is just as important as one great season. If we fall to the Ash / Jordan level finding another coach becomes that much harder.
They lost to a team that was a 7 or 8 point favorite over them. Disappointing yes, but that still does not erase Pike’s inability to figure out Princeton and Kennesaw state with Ace and Dylan.
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He’s put together a few top 20 classes already in addition to a top 2 this year. Think most of us left basketball for dead before Pike arrived and put together 4 tourney worthy season starting with his 3rd year. He’s earned some patience and grace with the fans - not unlimited of course.
If anything, this is kind of like the plateau that followed 2006. Pike lost Ndongo late in 2023 (and Gavin is a bust) and that’s impacted a bit of the continuity he would have had this year. Not easy to start strong with only 1 guy who played the full season, 2 who were out most of the year and 9 new guys in the program. He’ll get it figured out - but it’s fair to ask if it’ll be too late (it’s getting close).
Long term, I think Pike has a higher peak than Greg - but that’s also a function of the sport - I don’t see the fb elites falling back any time soon.
Rivals doesn't have easily searchable team recruiting rankings from previous seasons but on TOS the 2020 class is the highest at #32 and all of the others before this year are far lower.
Also next years' class which people have kind of been shitting on here is currently #29
Am I the only one that realizes - you can't completely count Pike out? Like he could legit turn this around, and this season ends in satisfying fashion
But on the other end. We can ALWAYS count Schiano out. Like your expectations for him should ALWAYS be low. Whether it's the big east, Tampa, a stacked squad Ohio St squad, Rutgers again. Schiano will always be lackluster - one good season his whole coaching career. Even that one good season, was against a cake schedule - and he still failed at the end -- losing to a freshman back up QB.
But on the other end. We can ALWAYS count Schiano out. Like your expectations for him should ALWAYS be low. Whether it's the big east, Tampa, a stacked squad Ohio St squad, Rutgers again. Schiano will always be lackluster - one good season his whole coaching career. Even that one good season, was against a cake schedule - and he still failed at the end -- losing to a freshman back up QB.
You do realize that you can only lose once or twice in football and your “out” of the only bowl race that really matters. It’s very different. Apples and oranges
I realize that Schiano is a dud. And that next year his football team will be awful
