Ok. And that’s alright. I don’t care what ya think — it’s entirely outside of my sphere of impact. If you looked at some of the broader indicators (like fan attendance at games) there’s a clear story there.
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If Pikiell gets fired, Schiano should go with him
- Thread starter Rutgers1987
- Start date
Did you ever think maybe Ace’s efficiency numbers are what they are b/c Pike surrounded him and Harper with mid major level players. I completely understand what you were trying to get at by saying he’s the 65th best player in the B1G . But use your eyes. There’s 3 B1G scorers on this team. Ace and Dylan take the number of shots that they take out of necessity, so yeah maybe Ace’s efficiency numbers are down. And yeah, it hasn’t hurt Dylan because Dylan might be the best player in the country.
We’re in this mess because prior to the 2024 class, recruiting was trending the wrong way. A lot of people on this boarded pointed it out but some refused to listen.
Insert 2024, and the roster is what it is. So somehow potentially missing the tournament despite having Harper and Bailey doesn’t fall on Pike? Give me a break.
I don’t want Pike fired. But a turnaround needs to happen.
Anyone even thinking this is a remote thought to be had is forgetting two extremely important things:
- Rutgers has an interim AD
- Rutgers has a university president that is on his last term.
Care to share the stats for Dylan? Curious where he lands.
Does the data come from a free site or something you have to pay for?
Does the data come from a free site or something you have to pay for?
I agree that if you take that post only out of context it sounds like I am saying something different.
Let me be clear:
I said Ace is a "pretty good college player". Not a bad college player. There are now 90 starters in the Big Ten. Being a mid-tier Big Ten starter is pretty good, and it is very good for a freshman.
He certainly has the potential to be much more.
A little, but not that much. Again, it hasn't stopped Harper. And it didn't stop players like Cam Spencer even though that team was far worse than this one from an offense only standpoint.
I would be more sympathetic to the idea that Bailey taking bad shots is Pike's fault because Pike hasn't told him they are bad shots.
If you click the link I posted a few posts ago it has Dylan as well. He is currently #2 in the Big Ten and #6 in the country.
It's not the end all be all. But it certainly has a correlation with production and a player as far down those lists as Bailey is is not an elite player (again from an actual helping team win perspective, not a skills or potential perspective).
My head hurts from reading the BS in this post. This team has underperformed and will likely miss the Tournament. This in my opinion goes directly on the coach. He should know his players and put them in position to succeed and he should have recruited to fill any gaps. I still fail to see why Martini was brought in. Are there players on the bench not playing that could help the team? Player evaluation is critical. I believe this team in the hands of say a Rick Patino would thrive.
Getting invited to the Charmin Toilet Tissue Wet Wipes Bowl, is not comparable to the NCAA tournament. Are the Seniors even playing in the tissue bowl?
Being 54th most efficient out of 59 BIG starters (guys playing 24+ minutes) does not make any sort of a case that Dylan Grant or any other utility player on our roster should be playing over Ace.
You say we “have to be better” on offense. Yes - we do. 45.8% shooting inclusive of 33.3% from 3 IS better - and it’s likely a lot better than Dylan Grant can do for us right now. He’s not going to improve our rebounding over Ace, and he’s not going to make our offense better. Are you suggesting that the rest of his D as a true frosh also should be presumed to be that much better than Ace’s? Ace does some good things sometimes on D by the way with highlight reel blocks and such. Hes no Jaden Jones. I’m just not seeing your argument.
Potentially missing the tournament, for the third consecutive year now, falls on Pike. I think the "despite having Harper and Bailey" part is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion. Like I said, absolutely go in on Pike for failing to put together a good enough roster. I just think people are making extreme negative claims about his coaching (not recruiting, not roster construction, but coaching) based on the idea that he is squndering this great roster and I think that's completely wrong. The roster is the problem. As a coach, Pike is good. (Though I also would be sympathetic to the idea that he is not as well equipped to coach this kind of roster as he was to coach some of his other rosters. But this idea that you give this same roster for Hurley or something and all of the sudden it's an immediate top 20 team is asinine in my opinion.)
I agree with the point you are making. Ace doesn’t stand out as an all conference type kid the way Dylan does, or anything close to that. No argument there from me.
But for the avoidance of doubt, can you please confirm that your position isn’t aligned with what Green is saying about the issue being that Pike is playing the wrong guys and sitting him for Dylan Grant or some other utility guy would help our issues. I’m really struggling with that argument despite your data. I don’t see Ace as anything near the horrific defensive player that GG was. He’s not great but he’s ok and does some good things. I think if you replaced Ace’s minutes for a D only type of kid we would be worse overall because we wouldn’t improve that much on D and our offense would be significantly worse.
I don’t think Ace should play any less. I think he needs to be told to force fewer midrange shots and continue to learn. He’s the second best thing we have as he exists right now and he’s the only one with the potential to do much better.
I thought the arguments were about playing Grant instead of Martini. I’m not sure how I feel about that (I think I’d just give all of those minutes to Ogbole and Sommerville unless they both foul out) but I certainly wouldn’t give him any of Ace’s minutes.
When 40% of Schiano's starting roster are first round NFL picks and he fails to even sniff the playoff or a New Years Bowl, maybe this will be a conversation.
Idk when it happened but probably around 6 years ago a decent portion of the basketball leaning fan base became more antagonistic of football than one would do expect a fan base be to one of their own programs.
There used to be much more unity between football/basketball co existence, which I think has held true for basketball/other ru sports throughout the same period of time. It’s not everyone; but it definitely of different than it used to be.
Going to a bowl is easier than the tournament, but not as much as people typically think. There is also some favorable outcome variance in big ten when it comes to how often an average bball team (near bubble) can beat a top 3 conference team) that just isn’t there in football.
There used to be much more unity between football/basketball co existence, which I think has held true for basketball/other ru sports throughout the same period of time. It’s not everyone; but it definitely of different than it used to be.
Going to a bowl is easier than the tournament, but not as much as people typically think. There is also some favorable outcome variance in big ten when it comes to how often an average bball team (near bubble) can beat a top 3 conference team) that just isn’t there in football.
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Because most people pay attention and understand that almost 1/3 of the two deep was out all season or out for multiple games. It was completely ridiculous how many injuries occurred and most, well maybe not you understood it was an anomaly year for injuries. Hell even NJ.com was writing articles constantly on how banged up they were.
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Cool. Well enjoy it. Because next year, it's back to 5 wins -- 6 tops
People insist on comparing the two. They should just be evaluated independently. It’s tough to compare given that football has the FBS/FCS split etc.
Football has been worse relative to its direct peer group (FBS for football vs D1 for basketball) but better if you compare each to the entirely of D1.
But what does it even matter.
Just stating facts. Is it a troll to stay JaMike hurts on O or PJ Hayes hurts us on D?
Plenty of season to turn it around.
Plenty of season to turn it around.
I dont want Grant playing over Ace! We need Ace to be better.
You said we were better on offense without Ace. It’s simply not true. There’s no player you could swap him for him straight up in any line up combination that would make the offense better.
Hold them to the standards they put themselves and players too.
Pikell’s start to this season has been awful. Not the record his lack of ability to coach and being out coached by lesser schools with FAR less NIL support. (No excuses)
Pikell said “The standard for RU is making the tournament. No one asked him to say that he set that standard on his own. 1 tournament bid and 1 play in game where he was out coached in both. The team is on a 5 year backward trend. He is a great teacher of defense but his philosophy and style is no longer relevant in college D1. The best thing for Pike retire, def assistant, or coach at a lower level.
He has two of the best players in the country and is on the verge of missing the tournament again or worse.
Sorry time to go if he is unable to turn it his around. He will NEVER get another top tier recruit if he doesn’t get this fixed.
Schiano is, has, and always will be a clown. Playing the easiest schedule in the big ten. The team with the most returning players and completely fumbled away the season. Wait until the “developmental program” has to start those kids next season.
PJ Hayes.
The ball flows better and he only takes good shots.
Hopefully from this point going forward Ace gets better.
Unfortunately PJ is a train wreck on D
Nope - absolutely not. Fluox proved that when he broke out the numbers. PJ feasted on efficiency vs bad opponents. Recall Ace didn’t even play the first 2 games. PJ’s production on offense against P5 teams has been quite poor.
Can’t know that for sure yet. He’s played in 10 out of an eventual 32 games (assuming we make the B1G tournament) and that’s only 31% of his college career of one season.
After a 3-game stretch (KSU, ND, Bama) where he got a total of 9 rebounds, some on this board were questioning his tenacity and rebounding ability. In the 5 games since then he’s amassed 51 rebounds.
In his 10-game career as a true freshman he’s averaging 18 and 8, which by any measure, those are at least “budding star” numbers. Let’s see how he performs in the next 20 games before we say he’s not an NCAA star.
They both are below 100 vs top 100. Hayes bad numbers at least comes with low usage. Ace was below average on high usage.
Bottom line….Ace has to start making an almost impossible percentage of the shots he is taking or he needs to change the shots he takes. In addition he needs to pass
Analysis is moot because ace is playing and pj is bad defensively
Correct…so far he has not been a star. High volume guy with subpar quality numbers
In 12 games Alabama has taken 78 long 2 point attempts. In 10 games Ace has taken 80
The point I’m making is specifically in reference to your comment that Rutgers has been worse off offensively with Ace in the game than without him. That is simply not a true statement nor is it true that PJ has been more efficient than Ace in like for like circumstances.
Good to know. Should be a fix the coaches can insist on, assuming the numbers add up.
For instance I’d like to know Alabama’s shooting percentage on those long 2-pointers versus Ace’s.
I’d also like to know how many long 2-pointers Rutgers has taken as a team in the 10 games Ace has played (I’m guessing Ace takes most of them).
It’s possible those are better shots for Ace than they are for the whole Alabama team.
If Alabama is shooting 56% on long 2-pointers and only 31% on 3-pointers (I looked it up), then it’s coaching malpractice because they should be taking more long 2-pointers.
At those percentages, 100 long 2-pointers would result in 112 points and 100 3-pointers would result in only 93 points.
Since Alabama has taken 371 3-pointers, they’ve short-changed themselves by about 70 points so far this season, by not taking only long 2-pointers and eliminating 3-pointers altogether.
Oh, and by the way, Ace is scoring 98 points per 100 long 2-pointers taken, versus Alabama’s 93 points per 100 3-pointers taken.
So touting Alabama’s shot selection over Ace’s shot selection is actually incorrect.
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Are long twos really that bad, for Ace?
In his 10 games, he’s shooting 33.3% from three and 49% on his 80 long-twos. That means if he eliminated long twos and shot threes instead, in 30 games he would’ve scored a total of 5 more points, or 0.17 points per game.
And in the Alabama analysis above, they are taking too many threes and not enough long twos, based on their percentage of makes for each.
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Most of the players on our roster are over effective 50% and their free throw rate is much higher.
Again we are taking 10-12 games of data. We both know that.
Crazy Alabama is shooting that low....they were 37% last year
Where are you guys getting the “long two” stats? Because if it is from Bart and counting everything except “at the rim” it is counting too many shots.
Floaters in the lane and open foul line jumpers are very different from 1-2 foot inside the line shots.
If some team were shooting 35% from three and 55% from one foot inside the line it wouldn’t indicate they need to shoot more from one foot inside the line it would just indicate they had weird stats over a small sample.
