If Pikiell gets fired, Schiano should go with him

[fluoxetine]

Yes we should settle for mediocrity at this point

People seem to forget that mediocre is often a necessary stopping point on the road from terrible to good.

I love that we’ve hit the point of bashing Ace Bailey. His college comp is Jabari Smith. Here are both of their stats. Yes, Smith had less minutes per game and better TO numbers, but this idea of him not producing is starting to get funny. The difference is Smith played a good team with good players around him so every time he made a mistake he didn’t have fans saying ridiculous things such as him not being college ready like others have on this board

Jabari Smith Jr. Career Stats - NCAAM - ESPN

Complete career NCAAM stats for the Auburn Tigers Power Forward Jabari Smith Jr. on ESPN. Includes points, rebounds, and assists.

www.espn.com

Ace Bailey - Rutgers Scarlet Knights Guard - ESPN

View the profile of Rutgers Scarlet Knights Guard Ace Bailey on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

I don't think pointing out that Bailey is not the college superstar that a lot of people around here expected or even currently seem to think he is is the same thing as bashing Bailey.

I certainly wouldn't say Bailey isn't "college ready". Bailey is really good for a freshman. If we were going to have him even one more year I would think he was great. But in his current form he's not anything more than a pretty good college player.

 

[linzalonic]

NOT TRUE......Ace is a big part of this mess. We have been better offensively without him. He hasn't been good on the defensive end either.

Is Ace making others better offensively.......ABSOLUTELY NOT. Has he been efficient when he has the ball in his hands. NO!

59 players has played 60% of available minutes in B1G
Ace is 54th in offensive rating
Ace is 58th in assist rating
Ace is 42nd in effective FG%
Ace is 45th in free throw rate
Ace is 7th in usage rate though

It's remarkable that Ace only has 7 assists this season. I was expecting him to be a playmaker who averaged 3 apg just by driving and kicking to shooters like Hayes and Acuff. But I guess that was just in my dreams. I wasn't expecting to cringe when he gets the ball isolated on the wing, knowing that a difficult, contested, mid range shot is imminent. Yes, he makes a lot of them, but it's not conducive to efficient, team-oriented basketball. (Ball movement, close range shots and open 3's).

Pre-season, a Big Ten focused twitter account ranked Brooks Barnhizer ahead of Ace. I thought that was absurd. Well, Barnhizer beats him handily in almost every category.

 

[BillyC80]

Normally I agree on your takes but I think you are way off base on Ace. Where to begin:

1) He’s playing 5-7 minutes a game out of position at the 5. That’s going to impact his efficiency numbers.

2) He’s making 45.8% of his shots and 33.3% of his 3s. Are you implying he should sit because of those numbers? How many times did Geo or Ron do better than that? I’ll wait. By Rutgers standards these are actually pretty good numbers. His FT shooting has been disappointing and brings down his overall efficiency but we’re not going to sit him because of this.

3) He didn’t even play against 2 of the cupcakes and is still averaging 17.6 ppg and 7.6 rpg. Even if you tried to argue that Dylan Grant or someone else might be better on D it seems a stretch to imagine him being better on the glass. And the offense would be night and day.

Against Princeton, Ace missed a few bunnies, threw away an outlet pass (unforced), and had that awful goaltend which I bashed him for, but he also had 12 rebounds which shows the effort and intensity was there.

He almost redeemed himself and the team on that last trey that gave us the lead with 15 seconds left. We didn’t win but I’m glad he took and made that shot. Could be a confidence factor in future games.

As a freshman he has mostly lived up to his star status, imo, but as a freshman he’s still going to make freshman mistakes and needs to be more active on defense.

 

[biazza38]

People seem to forget that mediocre is often a necessary stopping point on the road from terrible to good.


I don't think pointing out that Bailey is not the college superstar that a lot of people around here expected or even currently seem to think he is is the same thing as bashing Bailey.

I certainly wouldn't say Bailey isn't "college ready". Bailey is really good for a freshman. If we were going to have him even one more year I would think he was great. But in his current form he's not anything more than a pretty good college player.

We’ll have to agree to disagree here. It’s pretty evident some were expecting Kevin Durant or Zion Williamson. I wouldn’t say he’s a “pretty good college player.”

 

[RUBlackout]

Yea was so easy to make a bowl over the last decade. Anyone with half a brain can see football recruiting and development are miles ahead of where basketball is right now

Miles ahead?? We just made the lowest tiered bowl game in the B1G. We had a soft schedule this year and were lucky to make a bowl game.

You are a miserable poster and should go follow Chris ash wherever he may be and get off these boards for your own health.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Normally I agree on your takes but I think you are way off base on Ace. Where to begin:

1) He’s playing 5-7 minutes a game out of position at the 5. That’s going to impact his efficiency numbers.

2) He’s making 45.8% of his shots and 33.3% of his 3s. Are you implying he should sit because of those numbers? How many times did Geo or Ron do better than that? I’ll wait. By Rutgers standards these are actually pretty good numbers. His FT shooting has been disappointing and brings down his overall efficiency but we’re not going to sit him because of this.

3) He didn’t even play against 2 of the cupcakes and is still averaging 17.6 ppg and 7.6 rpg. Even if you tried to argue that Dylan Grant or someone else might be better on D it seems a stretch to imagine him being better on the glass. And the offense would be night and day.

Not sure how playing out of position at the 5 hurts his offensive numbers. If anything I would think it would help....

Yes by Rutgers standards his shooting percentages are fine....but we are a different Rutgers that has to be better on offense as we know defense is going to be down.

I don't want to hear PPG in any argument. Almost irrelevant. Dylan and Ace's combined usage numbers are 56.7% and combined have a low assist rate so they better be scoring 40+ PPG.

Again Ace's offensive rating is 54th out of 59 B1G players that have played 60% minutes......and as a team we have to be better than average on offense.

As far as defensive rebounding.....agreed.

 

[Randal7]

What?

Randal you just proved you’re not paying attention.

Considering all of the injuries Greg actually managed to pull out a decent season

it was actually somewhat impressive how they managed to salvage the season after the mid-season swoon

Granted no one on the football board is waving their Pom poms but those actually paying attention on the football side realize that the coaches did a pretty decent job pulling this team together

Again, reason to celebrate? No

But “most disappointing in 20 years”? Nah

If it was truly the “most disappointing seasons in 20 years” there would be a chorus of people on the football board calling for Greg’s head. But you don’t. Why? Again, considering the injuries, he actually did a pretty good job this year.

So even his critics (and he probably has more than pike) aren’t calling for his head

I disagree. And look, I accomplished that in two words

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Against Princeton, Ace missed a few bunnies, threw away an outlet pass (unforced), and had that awful goaltend which I bashed him for, but he also had 12 rebounds which shows the effort and intensity was there.

He almost redeemed himself and the team on that last trey that gave us the lead with 15 seconds left. We didn’t win but I’m glad he took and made that shot. Could be a confidence factor in future games.

As a freshman he has mostly lived up to his star status, imo, but as a freshman he’s still going to make freshman mistakes and needs to be more active on defense.

NBA potential star YES
NCAA star, NO.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We’ll have to agree to disagree here. It’s pretty evident some were expecting Kevin Durant or Zion Williamson. I wouldn’t say he’s a “pretty good college player.”

He is 54th out of 59 offensive rating in B1G. There are only 5 players, using that metric, he is better than. That is just offense. Outside of rebounding, which is very important, he has been bad defensively.

 

[biazza38]

I’m not bashing him.

Sorry, if my post wasn’t clear. I know you’re not. Others are. I was in agreement with you. That’s why I liked your post

 

[Jerseylegends]

I love that we’ve hit the point of bashing Ace Bailey. His college comp is Jabari Smith. Here are both of their stats. Yes, Smith had less minutes per game and better TO numbers, but this idea of him not producing is starting to get funny. The difference is Smith played a good team with good players around him so every time he made a mistake he didn’t have fans saying ridiculous things such as him not being college ready like others have on this board

Jabari Smith Jr. Career Stats - NCAAM - ESPN

Complete career NCAAM stats for the Auburn Tigers Power Forward Jabari Smith Jr. on ESPN. Includes points, rebounds, and assists.

www.espn.com

Ace Bailey - Rutgers Scarlet Knights Guard - ESPN

View the profile of Rutgers Scarlet Knights Guard Ace Bailey on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

I just ignore those posts because obviously they don't know anything about basketball. Lol the same with flagg....they aren't lead guards and while ace can create his own shot whenever he wants, he has had to pick and choose when he attacks and hasn't developed the handle to get all the way to the rim at will so he's a jump shooter at the moment. People just want to make hot takes and in the current climate it's easier to have a negative outlook than to go out on a limb and say something positive. Everyone has to fit in to the message board clique lol

 

[Jerseylegends]

He is 54th out of 59 offensive rating in B1G. There are only 5 players, using that metric, he is better than. That is just offense. Outside of rebounding, which is very important, he has been bad defensively.

"Offensive rating" I know you've watched the games. So you've watched every Rutgers game this season and you have concluded that ace is the 54th best offensive player in the big ten?

 

[biazza38]

I just ignore those posts because obviously they don't know anything about basketball. Lol the same with flagg....they aren't lead guards and while ace can create his own shot whenever he wants, he has had to pick and choose when he attacks and hasn't developed the handle to get all the way to the rim at will so he's a jump shooter at the moment. People just want to make hot takes and in the current climate it's easier to have a negative outlook than to go out on a limb and say something positive. Everyone has to fit in to the message board clique lol

It’s really comical seeing some of this stuff. Happy to see you’re a sane one. He’s one of two players in the B1G who is in the top ten in scoring and rebounding. But some are upset because he’s not great on defense. What these posters don’t get is he wasn’t brought in to be an elite defender. He’s a scorer. That’s his role. If we had even one player who could defend the paint we’d have 2-3 more wins and no one would be talking about Ace’s offensive efficiency numbers lol

 

[RedTeam1994]

I disagree. And look, I accomplished that in two words

 

[RedTeam1994]

Yea was so easy to make a bowl over the last decade. Anyone with half a brain can see football recruiting and development are miles ahead of where basketball is right now

Not sure why that was the response to my post as it wasn’t remotely the point I was making

There have to be many much more effective ways to measure the relative success of the FB and BB programs than citing making low tier bowls vs making the NCAA tourney . It’s apples-to-oranges. That was my sole point

 

[Randal7]

ok. Haha.

I’ll give you the big disappointments in list form:
- start 3-0, huge win in Blacksburg, finish the season 4-5 against the weakest schedule we will likely ever have

- start the season with stadium attendance edging toward full, deliver two “farts in church” type home games (crushing all hope in front of a big crowd — an annual tradition) and by seasons end the stadium has 60%+ capacity

- look like the JV team against a team (the disgrace)

- lose on homecoming to give a team their first big ten win ever and make their qb look like John elway (the farce)

- lose a game with a walk off 40 yard TD throw

- zero juice. Zero hype. Zero nil hope. We aren’t in on any of the big play makers. We aren’t even in the conversation.

all crushing disappointments. This season was slightly bigger disappointment wise than 07 to me

 

[Rutgers1987]

There are over 100 responses to my post, so it's obviously a valid topic to discuss, your lazy unfunny meme aside.

Why drag a different program into the conversation about the basketball program?

Football and men's basketball are the two most prominent programs at Rutgers. My point is that many of those acting like football is a "success" and basketball is some sort of train wreck are omitting the facts. Pikiell has accomplished way more on the court/field than Schiano and it's really not close.

While Pike has recruited several great players, it really doesn't mean anything unless you win.

He has won. Two NCAA tournaments and would have definitely been three if not for COVID cancelling the 2020 tournament.

Good thing they haven't missed a bowl 3 years in a row like pike will with the tournament. You gonna waste your time watching these games this year?

Are you seriously comparing the "Rate Bowl" or the "Pinstripe Bowl" or any of the other crappy bowls RU has played in to the NCAA Tournament, one of the most popular and prestigious events in all of American sports? Come on.

 

[IL Lusciato]

This would be an epic fail by Pike. Nothing event remotely close to anything Schiano has done.

 

[Rutgers1987]

This would be an epic fail by Pike. Nothing event remotely close to anything Schiano has done.

Schiano has failed to win a conference championship or make an upper tier bowl in 14 seasons at Rutgers. Pikiell has made the NCAA tournament twice (would have been three times if not for COVID).

 

[RedTeam1994]

ok. Haha.

I’ll give you the big disappointments in list form:
- start 3-0, huge win in Blacksburg, finish the season 4-5 against the weakest schedule we will likely ever have

- start the season with stadium attendance edging toward full, deliver two “farts in church” type home games (crushing all hope in front of a big crowd — an annual tradition) and by seasons end the stadium has 60%+ capacity

- look like the JV team against a team (the disgrace)

- lose on homecoming to give a team their first big ten win ever and make their qb look like John elway (the farce)

- lose a game with a walk off 40 yard TD throw

- zero juice. Zero hype. Zero nil hope. We aren’t in on any of the big play makers. We aren’t even in the conversation.

all crushing disappointments. This season was slightly bigger disappointment wise than 07 to me

At the beginning of the season if some one asked if GS would be on the hot seat if he went 7-5 this year with our schedule the answer would have been … yes

But here we are

and yet - even though GS has MANY critics on the FB board - no calls for GS’s job

I explained why above

 

[fluoxetine]

We’ll have to agree to disagree here. It’s pretty evident some were expecting Kevin Durant or Zion Williamson.

Well, yeah. Some STILL seem to think we have a Kevin Durant or Zion Williamson. I don't think pointing out that he is not Kevin Durant or Zion Williamson is bashing him.

I wouldn’t say he’s a “pretty good college player.”

What has he done that is better than "pretty good"?

 

[biazza38]

Schiano has failed to win a conference championship or make an upper tier bowl in 14 seasons at Rutgers. Pikiell has made the NCAA tournament twice (would have been three times if not for COVID).

Pike was gifted Dylan Harper and Ace Bailey and has continued to flounder in the portal. While I’m not high on Pike, I don’t want him fired. That being said, it’s a fair question to start asking. Basketball recruiting is nasty and don’t think the inner circles aren’t talking about what’s going on here.
While yes, Pike has done more, this will be 3 three years of missing the tournament and recruiting is trending the wrong way.
Meanwhile, Schiano has adapted and is having success landing guys in the portal. You can bring up conference records or what we did 3-4 years ago, but find me another coached who missed the top tournament with top 5 picks and kept his job for much longer

 

[fluoxetine]

At the beginning of the season if some one asked if GS would be on the hot seat if he went 7-5 this year with our schedule the answer would have been … yes

But here we are

and yet - even though GS has MANY critics on the FB board - nothing.

I explained why above

I am not really sold on GS getting us to the next level given what we've seen so far and also what we saw from 2007-2011. That said, for THIS SPECIFIC YEAR, I really think he should get a pass based on the ridiculous number of injuries the team sustained.

 

[Randal7]

At the beginning of the season if some one asked if GS would be on the hot seat if he went 7-5 this year with our schedule the answer would have been … yes

But here we are

and yet - even though GS has MANY critics on the FB board - nothing.

I explained why above

That’s you, dude. And when did I say he should be fired?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

"Offensive rating" I know you've watched the games. So you've watched every Rutgers game this season and you have concluded that ace is the 54th best offensive player in the big ten?

I have concluded that he has the 54th best (out of 59) offensive rating.

My eyeball says he takes low percentage shots with most coming from 2 and he doesnt pass often.

I dont doubt he will make a great pro.

What role would he have for Michigan State or Alabama?

 

[biazza38]

Well, yeah. Some STILL seem to think we have a Kevin Durant or Zion Williamson. I don't think pointing out that he is not Kevin Durant or Zion Williamson is bashing him.


What has he done that is better than "pretty good"?

He’s in the top ten in scoring in ppg snd rebounds per game. We’ve done absolutely nothing to get him open. All of his scoring comes with a man on him yet he still average 17+ ppg and can take and make any shot on the court. His stats compare to Jabari Smith his freshman year. I said this earlier in the thread, but if we had even one player who could defend the paint we’d have 2-3 more wins and no one would be talking about Ace’s offensive efficiency numbers or how he’s “pretty good.” You guys are nitpicking right now. I think you’re being fair, but calling him a “pretty good” college player is a bit of a reach. Paul Mulcahy was a pretty good college player.

 

[fluoxetine]

missed the top tournament with top 5 picks

THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE IS WHY THE "BAILEY BASHING" IS NECESSARY.

Who cares if he is a top five pick? He isn't that good right now. By all means, go in on Pikiell for failing to construct a good enough roster but all of this bullshit about "losing with two top five picks", even if technically accurate, makes an explicit implication that there are two superstars on the court and Pikiell is still managing to lose. This is not true! There are like 65 better players than Bailey in the Big Ten. Literally every team in the Big Ten has multiple better players than Bailey.

He could go on to become better than Jordan and it doesn't change any of this.

 

[RedTeam1994]

That’s you, dude. And when did I say he should be fired?

No it’s not me. My point (I thought it was clear) is - if Schiano had truly produced “the most disappointing season in 20 years” there would be an ABSOLUTE CHORUS OF PEOPLE ON THE FOOTBALL BOARD calling for his job. But you don’t hear a peep.

Why is that?

Seems everyone, except you, understand the hand he was dealt with. So no it’s not me. It’s you, dude.

 

[biazza38]

THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE IS WHY THE "BAILEY BASHING" IS NECESSARY.

Who cares if he is a top five pick? He isn't that good right now. By all means, go in on Pikiell for failing to construct a good enough roster but all of this bullshit about "losing with two top five picks", even if technically accurate, makes an explicit implication that there are two superstars on the court and Pikiell is still managing to lose. This is not true! There are like 65 better players than Bailey in the Big Ten. Literally every team in the Big Ten has multiple better players than Bailey.

He could go on to become better than Jordan and it doesn't change any of this.

You think there are 65 better players than Bailey in the B1G?!? You’ve lost your mind. I would love to know the 65 players who could average 17+ ppg in this garbage offense. You’ve hit the point of being dishonest and being hyperbolic. Anyway, Merry Christmas!! Go RU!!

 

[fluoxetine]

He’s in the top ten in scoring in ppg

Who gives a ****?

He's scored 1.15 points per shot.

The team as a whole has scored 1.33 points per shot and that's only good enough to be like the #50ish rated offense. On top of that he has a 1-4 Ast to TO ratio. I mean, come on man.

We’ve done absolutely nothing to get him open.

Yeah, yeah, I know Pikiell is not the worlds' greatest offensive coach. It has not stopped Dylan Harper from putting up some of the best numbers in the entire country.

 

[fluoxetine]

You think there are 65 better players than Bailey in the B1G?!? You’ve lost your mind. I would love to know the 65 players who could average 17+ ppg in this garbage offense. You’ve hit the point of being dishonest and being hyperbolic. Anyway, Merry Christmas!! Go RU!!

Yes, there are 65 players performing better, HE HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING EXCEPT JACK UP BAD SHOTS. He scores a lot because he has the 9th highest usage in the entire conference.

He may very well be more skilled at making his bad shots than anyone else, it doesn't matter, it just makes them slightly less bad.

 

[fluoxetine]

T-Rank Player Stats - Customizable College Basketball Tempo Free Stats - T-Rank

T-Rank College Basketball Ratings and Rankings. And fun.

barttorvik.com

 

[biazza38]

Yes, there are 65 players performing better, HE HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING EXCEPT JACK UP BAD SHOTS. He scores a lot because he has the 9th highest usage in the entire conference.

He may very well be more skilled at making his bad shots than anyone else, it doesn't matter, it just makes them slightly less bad.

Doubling down on your bs, but now typing in bold caps. That will do it

 

[Jerseylegends]

Not sure how playing out of position at the 5 hurts his offensive numbers. If anything I would think it would help....

Yes by Rutgers standards his shooting percentages are fine....but we are a different Rutgers that has to be better on offense as we know defense is going to be down.

I don't want to hear PPG in any argument. Almost irrelevant. Dylan and Ace's combined usage numbers are 56.7% and combined have a low assist rate so they better be scoring 40+ PPG.

Again Ace's offensive rating is 54th out of 59 B1G players that have played 60% minutes......and as a team we have to be better than average on offense.

As far as defensive rebounding.....agreed.

What exactly is your point? That ace isn't good?

Yes, there are 65 players performing better, HE HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING EXCEPT JACK UP BAD SHOTS. He scores a lot because he has the 9th highest usage in the entire conference.

He may very well be more skilled at making his bad shots than anyone else, it doesn't matter, it just makes them slightly less bad.

These types of posts are pure troll.. just being negative to be negative. No way anyone knows anything about basketball and after watching these games you conclude ace is the 65th best offensive player or whatever you're saying. Lol you can say he needs to learn to get to his spots, needs to look to pass more, more hustle more rebounding but to say he's the 65 th best player and quote some analytics is pure troll..they invented analytics for internet arguments..Give me a break, 65th best player? Are you a robot or can you use the eye test?

 

[fluoxetine]

Doubling down on your bs, but now typing in bold caps. That will do it

What exactly is your point? That ace isn't good?
These types of posts are pure troll.. just being negative to be negative. No way anyone knows anything about basketball and after watching these games you conclude ace is the 65th best offensive player or whatever you're saying. Lol you can say he needs to learn to get to his spots, needs to look to pass more, more hustle more rebounding but to say he's the 65 th best player and quote some analytics is pure troll..they invented analytics for internet arguments..Give me a break, 65th best player? Are you a robot or can you use the eye test?

I don't think you understand what I mean by "65th best" or whatever.

Imagine we get Steph Curry on our team, but he decides to never take any shot from closer than half court. Every few possessions he jacks it up from the backcourt but otherwise he refuses to shoot. Is he one of the best players in the Big Ten? Or one of the worst?

Bailey may well be in the top five most talented and/or skilled players in the conference, but he is not using his skills in a way that helps the team win. There are tons of players, multiple players on every team, who are playing within themselves and doing more to help their team win than Bailey is.

 

[socaldave]

pike won’t be getting fired until at least 2027

End of next season Adios

 

[RexMantlepiece]

Miles ahead?? We just made the lowest tiered bowl game in the B1G. We had a soft schedule this year and were lucky to make a bowl game.

You are a miserable poster and should go follow Chris ash wherever he may be and get off these boards for your own health.

Bro also forgets that Greg has come no where near landing a top NFL pick let alone 2 out of the top 5 in a given year like we have in basketball… cue Ash providing reasons on why we got Ace and Harper and not giving Pike credit for any part of landing those two recruits.

 

[Jerseylegends]

I don't think you understand what I mean by "65th best" or whatever.

Imagine we get Steph Curry on our team, but he decides to never take any shot from closer than half court. Every few possessions he jacks it up from the backcourt but otherwise he refuses to shoot. Is he one of the best players in the Big Ten? Or one of the worst?

Bailey may well be in the top five most talented and/or skilled players in the conference, but he is not using his skills in a way that helps the team win. There are tons of players, multiple players on every team, who are playing within themselves and doing more to help their team win than Bailey is.

Now I will agree that other players are more comfortable in their roles and know how to maximize their skill set. I said in another thread, Caden Pierce is a better college player right now although ace is more talented. However I believe you are downplaying aces role on this team, besides his scoring he's the best rebounder on the team, playset center at times which allows Rutgers to switch all screens, good help defender..you guys are just looking to be negative about something because of the losses. Even if there were more wins some of you would still be doing this. It's fascinating the type of defeated, woe is me, negativity that message boards can spiral into. It's contagious I guess. Lol I try to only come on during the optimistic times. But it's Christmas, let's increase the positive thoughts..

 

[fluoxetine]

you guys are just looking to be negative about something because of the losses.

Not really..

I mean, I am more negative about the team when it loses a bunch than I am when it wins a bunch but that seems.. logical? You don't see me being negative about Harper do you?

Hell, this whole argument kind of starts because I'm trying to defend Pikiell a bit from the "losing with two lottery picks" stuff.

 

[Jerseylegends]

Yes, there are 65 players performing better, HE HAS NOT DONE ANYTHING EXCEPT JACK UP BAD SHOTS. He scores a lot because he has the 9th highest usage in the entire conference.

He may very well be more skilled at making his bad shots than anyone else, it doesn't matter, it just makes them slightly less bad.

I'm sorry but this post seems a little troll like to me. Let's see how the rest of the season goes...maybe he will prove your posts justified...or...