Illinois post game thoughts

[warhog6g]

Illinois fan here, heck of a game today. I think all the announcers said it as well as the coaches in the postgame...this isn't the ol' Rutgers team. I see some similarities between our two coaches when it comes to building a program the right way. Pikiell looks like he is building a good program at a place that is tough to recruit to. This team is going to be a beast in a year or two.

I think you guys got the right coach and I look forward to future matches.

 

[YoucancallmeRay]

If RU hits two more free throws, they probably win the game, regardless of anything else. This is the first time this season that I can say that that was the main cause. We knew that FT would cost us a game and this was the one.

 

[Night Man]

I have to watch that second half again. Seemed like every time he scored it was on Gene. I could be wrong.

They put Gene on him after he put up about 8 out of 10 points for them, on Myles and Shaq (Shaqs?)

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

No one is mentioning putting pressure on guards as a way to limit Georgi touches.

The problem is down the stretch we went small and we only had 4 guards we played. We couldn’t ask the 4 guards to play a ton of minutes and being on top of guards

 

[Scarlet Shack]

No one is mentioning putting pressure on guards as a way to limit Georgi touches.

The problem is down the stretch we went small and we only had 4 guards we played. We couldn’t ask the 4 guards to play a ton of minutes and being on top of guards

I really thought we needed to find a short rest in overtime for a few guys ...we had tired legs as Overtime wound down and it showed

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I really thought we needed to find a short rest in overtime for a few guys ...we had tired legs as Overtime wound down and it showed

I agree, but very easy for you and me to say watching from our couch. Kiss and Issa played 1 minute so A. It shows what Pikiell thought about them this game and B. You’d be putting them in the game having essentially not played in regulation.

I suppose you could have went back to playing with 2 bigs to give the 4 smalls rest .

 

[Scangg]

In general I like not doubling the post. Leads to so many open 3's. That being said... In games when someone is dominating the post over and over you have to make an adjustment and try to make someone else beat you

 

[GoodOl'Rutgers]

He commented on it extensively after Wesson destroyed us, saying double teaming might sound good in theory but it leaves other guys wide open, which is just as bad - seems philosophically against it, even though you see it all day elsewhere, especially in the NBA.

yes.. it is a choice. don't allow open 3s by doubling down. we usually have a height advantage.. not unreasonable to tell your bigs to win their matchups.

I would like to see that philosophy generate some TOs on the entry passes.... I mean, we know their big will be a target.. some quick harassment on the entry but not a full double-down might make the big a little less comfortable out there.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I agree, but very easy for you and me to say watching from our couch. Kiss and Issa played 1 minute so A. It shows what Pikiell thought about them this game and B. You’d be putting them in the game having essentially not played in regulation.

I suppose you could have went back to playing with 2 bigs to give the 4 smalls rest .

Kiss isnt built to play im an athletic game. He wouldve been a bigger liability than he usually is today. He played 1 minute and immediately it was obvious he has no business being on that floor. Kiss is a very bad basketball player. Belongs at Quinipiac, honestly he shouldve never left

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

In general I like not doubling the post. Leads to so many open 3's. That being said... In games when someone is dominating the post over and over you have to make an adjustment and try to make someone else beat you

You can subscribe to the notion of not doubling but if a guy is 90%+ it doesnt hurt to mix it in every 3 possessions or so. Just completely not adjusting is not acceptable

 

[winfield102]

Illinois did a very good job of getting him the ball. They had a plan and executed.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Above is the baseline double I was talking about. Every player in america knows how to do this by middle school. Personally i prefer to double backside with a guard who after he forced the ball out sprints out to the opposite corner after the defense rotates as seen below.

 

[blockm2]

You can subscribe to the notion of not doubling but if a guy is 90%+ it doesnt hurt to mix it in every 3 possessions or so. Just completely not adjusting is not acceptable

sure, but to some extent you expect a good bit of regression. I mean making shots at that rate is quite lucky.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

sure, but to some extent you expect a good bit of regression. I mean making shots at that rate is quite lucky.

The thing is I didnt think georgi had any crazy buckets. They were all pretty simple bunnies

 

[blockm2]

The thing is I didnt think georgi had any crazy buckets. They were all pretty simple bunnies

most players don't make shots within 3 feet of the rim at that rate

 

[RUsojo]

When you’re getting killed you gotta mix up your looks so I would’ve liked to see a couple doubles in the post to see how their big reacted. It does depend on the team though. For example I would try to never double Bruno Fernandes as he is a terrific passer out of the double team - I actually think Pike did double some against Maryland and it killed us.

Somehow we had our best offensive game of the year and still lost to Illinois UGH

 

[JQRU91]

most players don't make shots within 3 feet of the rim at that rate

Certainly not ours.

 

[sct1111]

Kiss isnt built to play im an athletic game. He wouldve been a bigger liability than he usually is today. He played 1 minute and immediately it was obvious he has no business being on that floor. Kiss is a very bad basketball player. Belongs at Quinipiac, honestly he shouldve never left

Kiss's problems aren't his athleticism. He makes bad decisions and is a bad ball handler. He's a turnover machine.

 

[zebnatto]

lost:

1) Frazier hit some very tough threes, not the open variety of previous losses;
2) Big B absolutely owned us. Defend like that again, he’ll own us again. Simply must double;
3) Refs hurt us at crucial junctures—as said above its not about equivalent number of calls, its how you are allowed to play D and how you have to back-off, TOS are often result of non-calls;
4) we shot 61% FTs, Illini 73%.

 

[TDIrish27]

Kiss's problems aren't his athleticism. He makes bad decisions and is a bad ball handler. He's a turnover machine.

His replacement was 0-7 from 3.

All in all lots of things to be optimistic about and McConnell played a great game.

If yesterdays Rutgers team shows up in Evanston they'll get a W.

 

[jeffro5]

I’m offended by your language, kyk1827.

 

[ScarletNut]

IMO, we lost due to 3 major issues:
1) Geo dribbled way too much. Hopefully resolved next season when a true PG, Mulcahy, handles the ball.
2) Foul shooting determines the outcome in too many of our games.
3) Carter and Mathis couldn't finish close to the basket too many times (despite Mathis having an overall good game)

 

[goru7]

Kyk makes a point that provokes an interesting dilemma. Despite not doubling Giorgi, we almost won the game in regulation, as their only 2 threes in the last 10 minutes was a Frazier 3 and the cross court pass to Jordan to break the 82-82 tie. We still could have won in regulation. On the other hand, Coach went to zone on 2 trips and they came up empty and we cut the 7 point deficit and then Giorgi scored against the zone again . Most teams double the post sometime during the game and I am surprised Coach did not try it at all. I would think that stopping his momentum and rhythm would have been enough to let him miss a shot. No right answer.

Regarding other takeaways, that was the most enjoyable Rutgers offensive game we have had on the road in forever, and other than the Iowa game last year the best offensive game in 7-10 years. Shots were made at a high % , and good shots were taken, the freshman were in attack mode, and Geo hit some big shots late in the second half. This raises the issue on whether we should play more uptempo. On the surface , it appears to fit the better skill set on Montez, Ron and Caleb on the offensive end but what concerns me is transition defense. I am also encouraged on the offensive end, when the other team goes zone, we go high low and carve it up. Eugene has done a much better job of feeding the wings for 3’s , besides bounce passes or lobs to Doorson . We still need a wing knockdown consistent 3 point shooter so bad that would get this team over the hump and where we want to go and dance.

Very concerning, our defense the last 3 games has been horrendous and I actually thought despite Giorgi having a career shooting and scoring day , our defense was much better against Illinois than against either Ohio State or Michigan. Frazier hit some contested 3’s as did all their other players with very few open looks . We have to get that solved immediately. I think Coach has to change defenses more, use more of the half court trap, more zone , and return to man to man or switch back and forth to throw off the rhythm of the other team’s offense. We also have to block more shots, Myles and both Shaquille’s should be blocking more shots . The guards have to pressure their point guards to make it harder for them to get in their sets. We are letting teams run their offense too easily.

The wonderful positive development and confidence that is building in Montez, Ron, Myles and now Caleb is the best we have seen in a Rutgers team from the beginning of a season to the end. They have now been through 13 Big 10 wars and are getting better not worse. They are no longer true raw freshman and their talent is starting to show. I guess Pike did a pretty good recruiting job, huh? All 4 are better than they were when we played Michigan State at home on December 3. We now have 4-5 scoring options on the floor at one time to add to Geo and Eugene . Also , quietly, Shaquille Doorson is getting 6-8 solid points or dunks now to add to Myles and Shaq Carter at the Center position which makes us a complete offense missing only a killer 3 point shooter .

As bad as a 3 game losing streak is and feels, I have never had more hope and a positive feeling after such a losing streak in my 40 years of watching and rooting hard for Rutgers basketball. We have the right coach, we have more Big 10 level players than ever before, and we have young talent so the future is very bright. However, I really think our best basketball will be played in these last 7 games and in the last tourney as yesterday was proof of our first 40+ minutes of basketball. We need a few calls go our way as well as the wins and losses are coming down to a few possessions and the whistle home or away but especially home has not been kind or fair to us .

 

[Scangg]

You can subscribe to the notion of not doubling but if a guy is 90%+ it doesnt hurt to mix it in every 3 possessions or so. Just completely not adjusting is not acceptable

Even more than that if a guy is on fire like that. Just my general theory in today's game where you want to limit 3's I would rather make a big man make a constested 2. In today's game I would want doubling for sure. He couldn't be stopped. Maybe some ball denial too just stop him from getting touches.

I do strongly prefer the baseline double though as the adjustment to make. It is pretty crazy to me that as a coach you can watch someone dominate for that long without trying to force someone else to beat you. You can't just do nothing about it and watch it happen over and over and over. Basketball is a game where someone can got hot in a way unlike any other major sport. When someone is in the zone like that it's obvious and to hope he all of a sudden starts missing is a terrible game plan. Adjustments needed to be made and could have won the game

 

[blockm2]

It is pretty crazy to me that as a coach you can watch someone dominate for that long without trying to force someone else to beat you. You can't just do nothing about it and watch it happen over and over and over.

He only attempted 18 of their 73 field goal attempts so it seems like they did force plenty of shots by other players.

 

[Pancho1939]

i think everyone needs to take a step back. Pikiell philosophically does not double. his teams here at rutgers and at Stony brook are/were known for their defense. so to question a guy who is here because of his defense seems silly especially when in a 9th place game.

in a game in which you are fighting for 9th place and their is no post season in sight you cannot go against your principles with a young team. maybe in a championship, maybe in the ncaa tournament but not at 9th place illinois in February.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

i think everyone needs to take a step back. Pikiell philosophically does not double. his teams here at rutgers and at Stony brook are/were known for their defense. so to question a guy who is here because of his defense seems silly especially when in a 9th place game.

in a game in which you are fighting for 9th place and their is no post season in sight you cannot go against your principles with a young team. maybe in a championship, maybe in the ncaa tournament but not at 9th place illinois in February.

Yes you can lol. It’s not hard to tell your guys, “hey backside guard double this possession” even if its only once every 3-4 possessions. Giorgi literally just calmly backed down every one of our defenders knowing that no double was ever coming. Cant have that happen

 

[RutgersMO]

Everytime were double on offense we dribble out towards the corner, nothing good comes from it lol. Just stupid

Then apply for the job if you think our coaches are incompetent, since you seem to insist it's such a simple and obvious decision.

Pike can still learn a thing or two ...he can adapt.

The Hall threw multiple defenses at us and we looked helpless. IMO Pike needs to experiment with all defenses when a player is shooting lights out ....and has over 30points.

Also think we could take our chances with their guards and run plays at them as well as their C ...to foul them out.

Mo

 

[ChrisNalwasky]

get this out of the way, condolences to pike for the loss of his mother but this post will focus on the game.

1) this ones on pike. Him being vehemently against doubling the post all year absolutely killed us today. It is such a god damn simple concept and middle school kids can do it. I need to know pikes thinking on this. @Richard Schnyderite when the time is appropriate can you please ask him his thoughts on when to and when not to double the post from the backside? Its so god damn simple to do. Kids do it in pick up ball at the local Y.

2) the future is extremely bright, we have some young kids who can run and gun and BALL. I know im a broken record but we saw again today why kiss should never take a single minute away from caleb or harper. Caleb and harper are so so so good. Just good basketball players who can do everything. Their growth is going to be so fun to watch.

3) geo tried to do way too much today. I never rip geo but its warranted today. The offense flowed better when he was not out there. He drove to no mans land one too many times. Ball movement when we had to get into the half court shouldve been the play but he just tried to do way too much.

4) we’re at our best when were getting out and running. When we have to get into the half court, pikes sets really arent anything to write home about. It’s more or less a motion offense. When were running which is our best players strengths we get easy buckets and open looks. We need to make it a point to get out and run more.

5) make no mistake, illinois is a good team. Theyre on a tear right now and we just went into their house with a buncha freshman and played a heckuva game vs them. The future is so bright. Calebs ceiling is insane.

I will try and ask Pikiell on the post double teams