Is Baker a below average big ten guard?
- Thread starter AshCatchEm
- Start date
He only played the point so that's all he can be judged on - only what we saw, and that was below average. Will he be average or above average at the two next year - probably, but he isn't now.
Plus, to be an average guard in the Big 10 means he has to be as good as half the other starting guards. He isn't.
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Chow’s record judging the basketball team hasn’t been stellar. Before the season didnt he think Chris Ash had a more impressive resume and better recruiting?
Chow, he did make honorable mention all-B1G, which means he was considered in the top half of B1G guards. You know how it goes, right? First team, second team, third team and maybe a dozen honorable mentions spread among all five positions? Not exactly like an attendance trophy. So there's that, but presumably the voters failed to consult you. I'll email the conference office to ensure that does not happen again.
TL
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Let's bring some stats into it.
Averaged 12.3 points, 4.1 assists, 3.1 rebounds, and 1.7 steals this season. He finished second in the Big Ten in steals, fifth in assists, eighth in minutes played at 33.8 per game, as well as ninth best assist to turnover ratio at 1.4.
And for those that think minutes played don't matter...he played all those minutes because he was the best player on the team. That creates fatigue for a sophomore. And when you're the best player on your team, the opposing team is constantly game planning against you.
Averaged 12.3 points, 4.1 assists, 3.1 rebounds, and 1.7 steals this season. He finished second in the Big Ten in steals, fifth in assists, eighth in minutes played at 33.8 per game, as well as ninth best assist to turnover ratio at 1.4.
And for those that think minutes played don't matter...he played all those minutes because he was the best player on the team. That creates fatigue for a sophomore. And when you're the best player on your team, the opposing team is constantly game planning against you.
I’m not saying Geo had a great year but here are his Big 10 ranks. Usually facts tell the true story.
Points #25
Minutes #8
Steals #2
Assists #5
Assist/TO ratio #9
3 point baskets #13
Points #25
Minutes #8
Steals #2
Assists #5
Assist/TO ratio #9
3 point baskets #13
Geo's an above average player. What keeps him from being even better is that he tries to do too much. It seems like he thinks he needs to carry the team. He needs to play his role and let the game come to him. It drives me crazy when he tries to penetrate and dribble behind his back in traffic and turn it over. Or when we need a big shot and he takes a bad one but we have better options.
When Corey left, he was supposed to be the best player on the team. He wasn’t. Eugene ended up being the best player on the team. All of that is shocking TBH.
I think if you ask around the league, other coaches and players would agree with an above average grade. Geo was the focus of our opponents scouting reports. You could see it in how we were defended against, especially during the last 10 or so games. Stop Geo and you'll probably beat Rutgers. When you are the focus of another team's defense, it's difficult to shine. Only the elites can do it consistently. Geo's not elite.
He's above average and he's still learning on the job. Kudos.
He's above average and he's still learning on the job. Kudos.
When Baker scored 16 or more, we were 7-1 this year. When he scored 10 or less we were 3-9.
When Omoruyi scored 15 or more, we were 4-9.... when he played and scored 11 or less, we were 7-3.
It was more important this year for Baker to get established than Omoruyi - if Baker was contained, Omoruyi going off without him wasn't usually going to get us the win.
I am hoping Geo having the ball in his hands less next year will help his game.
To Chow's thinking and multiple times saying it would be better if McConnell was at PG or Mulcahy walks in and starts, here are the names Baker is playing against.
Carsen Edwards (POY candidate) JR
Cassius Winston (POY in B1G) JR
Zavier Simpson (Michigan leader in assists) SOPH
Anthony Cowen (Maryland PG averaging 15.6 and 4.4) JR
Dmitrik Trice (Wisconsin leader as soph in backcourt)
Jordan Bohannon Iowa JR
Glynn Watson Nebraska SR
Rob Phinissee Indiana FR
Dupree Mcbrayer Minnesota SR
CJ Jackson OSU SR
Jamari Wheeler PSU
Trent Frazier Illinois SOPH
NW didn't have a true PG
It's not a slap to say Baker is ,"below average B1G PG", but the bar is Player of the Year in Winston, National Player of Year in Edwards and others in Simpson, Cowan, Trice, Watson, Phinnisee that are upperclassmen or true PGs who are a step or two quicker physically.
I would take Baker over McBrayer of Minnesota, whomever you have on Penn State, Northwestern and I like Frazier, but he's a chucker and Glynn Watson is very streaky, but a dominant defender.
To suggest Geo Baker doesn't belong in the middle of the pack in one of the best leagues in the NCAA and that a true freshman launches past 1/2 of this list, is insanity.
If Edwards leaves for the NBA, Baker isn't moving up this list over kids like Winston, Cowen, Trice or Simpson, but that's about it, from what I can see even "out of position".
Carsen Edwards (POY candidate) JR
Cassius Winston (POY in B1G) JR
Zavier Simpson (Michigan leader in assists) SOPH
Anthony Cowen (Maryland PG averaging 15.6 and 4.4) JR
Dmitrik Trice (Wisconsin leader as soph in backcourt)
Jordan Bohannon Iowa JR
Glynn Watson Nebraska SR
Rob Phinissee Indiana FR
Dupree Mcbrayer Minnesota SR
CJ Jackson OSU SR
Jamari Wheeler PSU
Trent Frazier Illinois SOPH
NW didn't have a true PG
It's not a slap to say Baker is ,"below average B1G PG", but the bar is Player of the Year in Winston, National Player of Year in Edwards and others in Simpson, Cowan, Trice, Watson, Phinnisee that are upperclassmen or true PGs who are a step or two quicker physically.
I would take Baker over McBrayer of Minnesota, whomever you have on Penn State, Northwestern and I like Frazier, but he's a chucker and Glynn Watson is very streaky, but a dominant defender.
To suggest Geo Baker doesn't belong in the middle of the pack in one of the best leagues in the NCAA and that a true freshman launches past 1/2 of this list, is insanity.
If Edwards leaves for the NBA, Baker isn't moving up this list over kids like Winston, Cowen, Trice or Simpson, but that's about it, from what I can see even "out of position".
What's not to like ?
Good player and a good kid----the whole premise of the post is silly.
Good player and a good kid----the whole premise of the post is silly.
Below average for a starting Big Ten guard. I think he winds up above average by the time he's a senior though.
Cassius Winston
Matt McQuaid
Zavier Simpson
Jordan Poole
Carsen Edwards
Ryan Cline
D'Mitrik Trice
Brad Davison
Anthony Cowan
Jordan Bohannon
Isaiah Moss
Gabe Kalscheur
CJ Jackson
Romeo Langford
Ayo Dosunmu
Trent Frazier
Glynn Watson
That's 17 guys I'd definitely take over Baker and doesn't count some of the more wing-y types who are arguably guards like Ayala on Maryland.
I like Geo and of course he can be better as a senior than CJ Jackson was a senior, for instance, but for this season he was below average.
Cassius Winston
Matt McQuaid
Zavier Simpson
Jordan Poole
Carsen Edwards
Ryan Cline
D'Mitrik Trice
Brad Davison
Anthony Cowan
Jordan Bohannon
Isaiah Moss
Gabe Kalscheur
CJ Jackson
Romeo Langford
Ayo Dosunmu
Trent Frazier
Glynn Watson
That's 17 guys I'd definitely take over Baker and doesn't count some of the more wing-y types who are arguably guards like Ayala on Maryland.
I like Geo and of course he can be better as a senior than CJ Jackson was a senior, for instance, but for this season he was below average.
Of course, a lot of those guys were upperclassmen this year. Looking at those same players as sophomores (Excluding Kalscheur, Langford, and Dosunmu, since they're freshmen this season)
Edwards - 18.5 pts, 3.8 rb, 2.8 ast
Cowan - 15.8 pts, 4.4 rb, 5.1 ast
Frazier - 13.7 pts, 2.3 rb, 2.6 ast
Bohannon - 13.5 pts, 2.2 rb, 5.4 ast
Watson - 13.0 pts, 3.0 rb, 2.6 ast
Poole - 12.9 pts, 2.9 rb, 2.1 ast
Winston - 12.6 pts, 3.4 rb, 6.9 ast
Jackson - 12.6 pts, 3.9 rb, 3.9 ast
Baker - 12.2 pts, 3.1 rb, 4.1 ast
Moss - 11.1 pts, 2.2 rb, 1.9 ast
Davison - 10.5 pts, 3.3 rb, 1.8 ast
Trice - 9.4 pts, 2.0 rb, 2.3 ast
Simpson - 7.3 pts, 3.2 rb, 3.7 ast
McQuaid - 5.6 pts, 1.9 rb, 1.2 ast
Cline - 5.4 pts, 2.0 rb, 1.6 ast
Baker's sophomore year in comparison would be 9th on that list in scoring, 7th in rebounding, and 3rd in assists.
Geo tailed off badly at the end of the season. He looked tired and missed many open looks because he lost confidence in his shot. I think he has a chance to become and elite shooting guard when Paul joins the team next year. Paul’s ball handling and penetration to the hoop should really open up the offense and Geo should be a prime beneficiary. Caleb is another one who can light it up. But, the chemistry might take a little time to develop. Hopefully they can get comfortable in the summer. We should be the team to watch in the big 10.
Baker is over extended and over utilized on this team.
He is absolutely an above average guard who hit a plateau due to playing in excess of 80% of every single game.
i expect 15 a game from him now that some pressure will be off with Young/Paul and a promising as hell core of young guns.
He is absolutely an above average guard who hit a plateau due to playing in excess of 80% of every single game.
i expect 15 a game from him now that some pressure will be off with Young/Paul and a promising as hell core of young guns.
He was asked to do A LOT.
When Pikiell can tell him his position, and let him be in that position consistently, you will see better play.
I believe in Baker. Great kid with a work ethic. Developing a formidable base will be huge to his success this offseason.
When Pikiell can tell him his position, and let him be in that position consistently, you will see better play.
I believe in Baker. Great kid with a work ethic. Developing a formidable base will be huge to his success this offseason.
Yeah, and the BTN analysts pump up our football team every summer too. Their job is to get eyeballs to tune in and one way to do that is to be extremely complimentary of every single team.
Geo is a very good guard and the focus of every other teams game plan. You're not wrong about the analysts, generally, but they do actually go out of their way on Geo.
Anyway, this entire discussion is stupid. He was the lead guard on the best team we've had since entering the league while being the focus of opposing D. He showed some wear at the end of the season, but the overall results have improved and he gets a great deal of credit for that.
Sorry, but this whole thread is ridiculous. We all know that Baker has been playing out of position. Before we render him average or below average or better than average, let's see how he does next season when he's playing his natural 2 guard position. Geez.
In my opinion, we have seen him play SG at an above average level. The fact that he wasn't as good this year doesn't matter..he showed that he can be at least serviceable as a PG and that enhances his profile. If young and mulcahy get dinged up next yr I will be confident that we still have a chance to win a game with Baker playing PG, and that's a really big deal. How anyone can hold his average PG play against him to the point that they call him a below average big ten guard is beyond me. Everyone and their mother knows he isn't a true PG. But he transformed himself into a combo guard when last year he was only a shooting guard. He knows the ins and outs of the offense 1000 times better now than he did at this same time last year.
Show me where I said that. I was against Ash from the beginning and have been negative on his recruiting from the beginning while the majority, AND ESPECIALLY ASHCATCHEM, did nothing but constantly heap praise on him. I took constant abuse from him for my negativity on Ash. I've also been a big supporter of Pike from the beginning when the majority of posters thought we had to spend more to get a bigger name. Perhaps your ability to read is as poor as Achcatchem. There can't possibly be another poster here who believes I have been enamored with Ash's recruiting or really anything about CA. While everyone who was positive on him has turned negative I am actually now one of the few who sees light at the end of the tunnel. So maybe you should stop making up sh&t.
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Pretty much my point. He played the point so he was below average for his position. He was, as Ashcatch pointed out and put in bold - servicable.
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It's not a very good point. Of that list, how many of those guys were forced to play a position they were less suited for the entire year because their team literally had nobody else at the position? How many of those guys were far and away the #1 focus of the other team when they gameplanned, further limiting their statline?
And I hope you understand that Baker, on a better team with more scoring threats other than himself, would thrive and he would have about a dozen more open looks per game. Do you just assume the guys on that list would do as good of a job as baker in the role he filled on this team if they switched places with him? Cause thats one hell of an assumption. Any coach in the big ten would give his left nut to have Baker on their team.
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Hey, my bad. I had you mixed up with another poster. I withdraw my criticism. [cheers]
