Is Big Ten buzz wearing off? Rutgers official explains dip in season tickets

[RU in IM]

I'm going and I'll post what I pay for them outside the stadium with seat location. I expect this game to command more then I'm used to paying however

There is always a way. My son and I stood outside Citizens Bank Ballpark for the sold out World Series game 5 between the Phillies and Yankees, hoping to get tickets at a reasonable price. Turned out there was nothing, at any price. Then, a guy on his cell phone comes up to me and says "I may have a couple of tickets, I will check for you". It is now the end of the 1st inning. He gets off the phone and confirms that he has tickets for me. I asked how much. His answer: "they are free". My first and only WS game.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

There is always a way. My son and I stood outside Citizens Bank Ballpark for the sold out World Series game 5 between the Phillies and Yankees, hoping to get tickets at a reasonable price. Turned out there was nothing, at any price. Then, a guy on his cell phone comes up to me and says "I may have a couple of tickets, I will check for you". It is now the end of the 1st inning. He gets off the phone and confirms that he has tickets for me. I asked how much. His answer: "they are free". My first and only WS game.

outstanding!!!!! That is just awesome!!!!

 

[wheezer]

That shouldn't work it used to) because Rutgers now requires a lot of priority points to sit in the top sections 126 and 125 and 106 and 105. The last I heard similar was about 4 years ago one of our crew bought into R priority section for a one time $5,000. That really P*ssed off one crew leader whos now a biggie with the foundation. Myself and my crew (you know who if you read my posts) were also irked because all of us (I wrongly lost 23.5 priority points once and lost all two other times) are very long time season ticketholders-and donors-and have "earned" such seats.

That said I'm sitting here feeling bad for that guy (who paid $5,000) as one of our crew member (same as above) has a friend who basically pseudo mooches seats around us because they go unused and security does not enforce. He DOES supposedly have a season ticket in a lesser section and donates something but doesn't make our level donation.

In a way one thing people can do help demand is not to allow (or bring friends to sit near you unless they have their own ticket in that location) people to sit by you who don't own the rights to that seat for that game.

-----
I handle tickets for 4 families..... About six years ago one couple asked me to see if I could move their seats
And the next year another couple did also.... Both couples got better spots.

I did mention it as movement in the same section, where the priority is the same throughout..... You can move quite a few yards closer to midfield within the same section....

 

[ashokan]

Raise prices. Product isn't as good. It's really a mystery?

Last couple of years a person has a choice seeings wins vs the Howards or the beat downs where game is over by the half. On top of that, 4 home games a year are between 6 and 20 dollars on Stub. $75 gets you all but a couple of the most popular games and those can be had for around $50 the week of the game since RU isn't competitive. It really makes hardly any sense to buy seasons tickets if you're not a laundry fan or just love tailgating. I haven't seen a memorable RU game since Michigan win. Its all really boring. Going to B1G has been like a return to the 90s and early aughts with top national teams wiping floor with RU. I don't even watch the stuff for free on TV half the time.

 

[mikeinsec127]

LOL! Absolutely not! The ONLY reason people have dropped ((and my group is evidence) is the debacle created by the former regime. That's it! Turn this thing around and watch what happens. My group is down about 12 seats from 2 years ago. 8 will be back within 2 years. No doubt.

For me it was a combination of factors that made the games less fun. Loosing was definitely part of it.

1. Most of my friends have for one reason or another, (mostly moving away) dropped their tickets.
   
2. Having three kids in sports and activities of their own meant we were missing games and unable to tailgate at games we did see.
   
3. I can't keep up with the increased required giving levels, so in short order I was bumped out of the parking lot and seats that I held for over twenty years.
   
4. We have no history with BIG opponents, so these games were more of a curiosity than must see rivalries.
   
5. Tickets to most of our games are next to worthless on the secondary market.
   
6. More games on TV means I can DVR and watch at my leisure.

 

[AshSaturday]

-----
I handle tickets for 4 families..... About six years ago one couple asked me to see if I could move their seats
And the next year another couple did also.... Both couples got better spots.

I did mention it as movement in the same section, where the priority is the same throughout..... You can move quite a few yards closer to midfield within the same section....

I used to do the same thing (sans one year as an MBA have had at least a "Meadowlands plan" since age 16 or so in 1979). Supposedly things changed in the Schiano realm when the Scarlet R claimed they wanted a donation of $50,000 to move to section 125 or 126. I though it a favor when, after my father passed, I was given 1 in section 125 for my then 2 in section 124. However. like I said, one in our crew made a 5K one time donation 3-4 years ago and was given 2 in section 125 (near where we are). Actually it can be argued that that was a smart move by Rutgers given 1)he faces some of the same issues as you, doesn't tailgate and misses some games whle 2) another in our crew ",mooches" an empty seat adjacent to his "buddy" n our crew (and has avoided making a larger donaton-or even donating at all (basically buys into section but never uses)

Nowadays, unless the Foundation is lying (and they've kind of done that in the past) there are strict, high priority point levels (supposedly) to move into 126,125, 106 and 105. The problem is that some tckets even in these section go unsold as season (and though they might say otherwise-and maybe they are correct) and just coincidentally you know have a lot of "dynamic pricing" for these same? seats.

 

[AshSaturday]

-----
I handle tickets for 4 families..... About six years ago one couple asked me to see if I could move their seats
And the next year another couple did also.... Both couples got better spots.

I did mention it as movement in the same section, where the priority is the same throughout..... You can move quite a few yards closer to midfield within the same section....

I used to do the same thing. Supposedly things changed in the Schiano realm when the Scarlet R claimed they wanted a donation of $50,000 to move to section 125 or 126. I though it a favor when, after my father passed, I was given 1 in section 125 for my then 2 in section 124. However. like I said, one in our crew made a 5K one time donation 3-4 years ago and was given 2 in section 125 (near where we are). Actually it can be argued that that was a smart move by Rutgers given 1)he faces some of the same issues as you, doesn't tailgate and misses some games whle 2) another in our crew ",mooches" an empty seat adjacent to his "buddy" n our crew (and has avoided making a larger donaton-or even donating at all (basically buys into section but never uses)

Nowadays, unless the Foundation is lying (and they've kind of done that in the past) there are strict, high priority point levels (supposedly) to move into 126,125, 106 and 105. The problem is that some tickets even in these section go unsold as season (and though they might say otherwise-and maybe they are correct) and just coincidentally you now have a lot of "dynamic pricing" for these same? seats.

 

[wheezer]

I used to do the same thing. Supposedly things changed in the Schiano realm when the Scarlet R claimed they wanted a donation of $50,000 to move to section 125 or 126. I though it a favor when, after my father passed, I was given 1 in section 125 for my then 2 in section 124. However. like I said, one in our crew made a 5K one time donation 3-4 years ago and was given 2 in section 125 (near where we are). Actually it can be argued that that was a smart move by Rutgers given 1)he faces some of the same issues as you, doesn't tailgate and misses some games whle 2) another in our crew ",mooches" an empty seat adjacent to his "buddy" n our crew (and has avoided making a larger donaton-or even donating at all (basically buys into section but never uses)

Nowadays, unless the Foundation is lying (and they've kind of done that in the past) there are strict, high priority point levels (supposedly) to move into 126,125, 106 and 105. The problem is that some tickets even in these section go unsold as season (and though they might say otherwise-and maybe they are correct) and just coincidentally you now have a lot of "dynamic pricing" for these same? seats.

-----
During the Anderson and Graber era I had season seats around 126 or so..... At one point I believe tickets cost about $25 each..... My friend would come with me at times, buy a couple of loose tickets outside for about five bucks, end zone, did not matter

And then he would sit next to me since here was plenty of space.... Now who Was the dummy?

 

[NYCFootballFan]

I used to do the same thing (sans one year as an MBA have had at least a "Meadowlands plan" since age 16 or so in 1979). Supposedly things changed in the Schiano realm when the Scarlet R claimed they wanted a donation of $50,000 to move to section 125 or 126. I though it a favor when, after my father passed, I was given 1 in section 125 for my then 2 in section 124. However. like I said, one in our crew made a 5K one time donation 3-4 years ago and was given 2 in section 125 (near where we are). Actually it can be argued that that was a smart move by Rutgers given 1)he faces some of the same issues as you, doesn't tailgate and misses some games whle 2) another in our crew ",mooches" an empty seat adjacent to his "buddy" n our crew (and has avoided making a larger donaton-or even donating at all (basically buys into section but never uses)

Nowadays, unless the Foundation is lying (and they've kind of done that in the past) there are strict, high priority point levels (supposedly) to move into 126,125, 106 and 105. The problem is that some tckets even in these section go unsold as season (and though they might say otherwise-and maybe they are correct) and just coincidentally you know have a lot of "dynamic pricing" for these same? seats.

lets be happy we have fans going to the game and cheering right now. I could care less if some guy is sitting in a seat near you and didn't pay as much as you. It sounds like you are pissed that he is smarter than you.

 

[AshSaturday]

Also I want to mention (possibly a lesser issue to an extent) that Rutgers sports has a LONG history of being both over opportunistic as soon as they have some sort of success. All of a sudden after success wealthy start opening up their checkbooks ( I also assume corporations and professional ticket brokerages) and LONG TIME SUPPORTERS ARE THROWN BY THE WAYSIDE. Hopefully the priority point system helps with this, but as I have pointed out one can pretty much sit anywhere n the
stadium if not enforced. This P*ssed people who do donate heavily off and serves as motivation to drop or drop down ones number of season tickets. MOREOVER, this creates bad with big donors-Mr. friend in legacy donations TAKE NOTE!

 

[AshSaturday]

lets be happy we have fans going to the game and cheering right now. I could care less if some guy is sitting in a seat near you and didn't pay as much as you. It sounds like you are pissed that he is smarter than you.

No it means Rutgers is losing revenue. Much revenue. Less revenue=less for facilities, yada. Less for prior hurts recruiting. Just don't complain when we lose 58-0 to Ohio State (who has many times the budget). Personally that person "knows" not to sit near me but it was the result of him talking all game once last year. With the possible exception of Michigan or Penn State where everyone shows or every ticket is used, he's welcome to sit by me. I've been in the same boat. The problem is that others used to do the same and we'd have several extra people per row and one was really squeezed in.

 

[AshSaturday]

No it means Rutgers is losing revenue. Much revenue. Less revenue=less for facilities, yada. Less for prior hurts recruiting. Just don't complain when we lose 58-0 to Ohio State (who has many times the budget). Personally that person "knows" not to sit near me but it was the result of him talking all game once last year. With the possible exception of Michigan or Penn State where everyone shows or every ticket is used, he's welcome to sit by me. I've been in the same boat. The problem is that others used to do the same and we'd have several extra people per row and one was really squeezed in.

Shoot for the Louisville game we had several "pseudo" crew members get in with a fake ticket.

 

[RUforlife]

All I know is that if we were still in the AAC where we belonged we would be selling out every home game. Our fans were really excited about playing Tulane, SMU, and UCF, it has been a major let down having to settle for the likes of Penn State, Ohio State, and Michigan. Based on our home schedules going forward, I can see us averaging maybe 25k per game, on a good year.

 

[AshSaturday]

-----
During the Anderson and Graber era I had season seats around 126 or so..... At one point I believe tickets cost about $25 each..... My friend would come with me at times, buy a couple of loose tickets outside, end zone, did not matter

And then he would sit next to me since here was plenty of space.... Now who Was the dummy?

Can't blame him. I SHOULD do the same. Years ago I DID do similar for 1-2 years 9after my father passed and I wanted to be with my frends (BTW I used to go to games with another friends on this board but likely your friend wouldn't consistently buy my 2nd season ticket (he worked and I didn't. I used to get stuck with extras. After dad passed I wanted to consistently attend home games and needed friends who did so.

In our crew (that now includes the major person in "Legacy" -crowding was an issue with him first 10 or so years ago) I think there's been, over time, a bit of an unwritten rule that everyone pulls their own weight to an extent-One does things to support the program if they want to be respected and included. One coincidental examples is that our "tailgate" has evolved from 3 parties cooking and those with the prior supposedly contributing (often not) to 2 people cooking and everyone chipping x amount (makes my friends happy as they don't have to cook (also often have a Jets game the next day). Pretty much our tailgate is open to anyone-as long they pay for the tailgate and hopefully give some notice.

A more serious issue that I was thankfully kept out of was that a trailer was rented for the 1st B1G Penn State game. I guess there was an expectation that everyone would contribute (at least those in positon to do so). One didn't and had a "fallout" with one of our leaders. Hasn't tailgated with us since (it could also well be-and likely well was stubbornness- of the crew member as a coincilatory lunch offer was made in front of me during an earlier tailgate this year).

 

[RU#1fan]

This only makes sense. Losing sucks

Change the QB ...that might spark some interest .
And keep on announcing that Water is not allowed to be carried into the Stadium. That will continue endear great feelings with the fanbase.

 

[newwavedave1]

Bingo. Win and they will come

Agree 100%. Fair weather fans dominate every sport.

 

[RU#1fan]

Sold two of mine for face value.

Boy you found a real sucker. :gun:

 

[rubaseball78]

Boy you found a real sucker. :gun:

Or I'm a good salesman and should be working in the ticket office.

 

[RoxboroughKnight]

1. More games on TV means I can DVR and watch at my leisure.

I don't think this impacts the bigger name opponents much but definitely impacts some of the other games. This year if you didn't go to the Howard game you could watch it in HD on the BTN. In years past if you didn't go to the stadium for that type of game you'd be stuck watching it on ESPN 360.

 

[RUfromNJ]

I can't even give away 4 Tickets for this Michigan game!

I'll take 2!

 

[rubaseball78]

On Stubhub top seats for Illinois and Indiana are selling below cost.

I got $75 per ticket for Illinois.

 

[AshSaturday]

All I know is that if we were still in the AAC where we belonged we would be selling out every home game. Our fans were really excited about playing Tulane, SMU, and UCF, it has been a major let down having to settle for the likes of Penn State, Ohio State, and Michigan. Based on our home schedules going forward, I can see us averaging maybe 25k per game, on a good year.

No but a part of attendance (at least late season) used to be that we were shooting for bowl eligibility (or a better bowl once 6 wins). NMot than many are gonna be happy playing a home game against Indiana or Illinois (ticket market already slow/nonexistent this year) when were 3-8? As above we start winning in a few years that hopefully changes. And frankly the B1G was all about saving our program and THANK GOD for the offer revenue maximization to minimize losses in Rutgers Athletics.

I will say that (as I did predict years ago) that there would be some happier to play a Cincinnati or USF (let alone Louisville) vs an Indiana, Illinois or Iowa because the former had become somewhat rivals.(and we'd oft be n bowl contention.

 

[AshSaturday]

I got $75 per ticket for Illinois.

You got $75 when? Has to be 126 or 106. Even then....I just listed mine for $75 yesterday (though a single).

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

Reading this thread, and this board in general, you'd think only RU plays noon games and only NJ kids have sports on fall Saturdays. These are issues everywhere; they're not unique to your situation. I can't tell you what the right answer is for you and your family, but it comes down to priorities and how much you care about making the game.

 

[rubaseball78]

You got $75 when? Has to be 126 or 106. Even then....I just listed mine for $75 yesterday (though a single).

Last month. Section 105. I'm one of those people who used to bring the family. Starting this year now both girls are out of the house. Debated giving up two of my 4 tickets but decided to hold on to all and sell 2 when not using all 4. So far for the ones I have sold, got $55 for Iowa, $75 for Illinois and $250 for Michigan. Didn't try to sell Howard and used the tickets for New Mexico.

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

Lots of good points on here regarding the lower demand for tickets. First, I think we all need to look at how unique Rutgers situation is relative to many other Schools situations.
Rutgers location, is one of the or THE most heavily saturated areas for professional sports in the country and perhaps the world. Between NYC/NJ and Philadelphia we have more professional sports teams than anywhere on earth. Pro sports competes for peoples discretionary money as does Rutgers. The same cannot be said for some of our B1G rivals. Also, the amount of "attractions" in the NY/NJ and Philadelphia areas also competes with money people have to spend to see a college football game. Museums, Zoo's, Aquariums, the shore, NYC, and on and on and on, there are so many things to do in this area. I highly doubt there is as much to do as a local in such areas State college, PA, Iowa city, IA, And even bigger cities like Columbus, OH; and Ann Arbor, MI.
So there is ALOT of competition in Rutgers drawing area for peoples dollars and time.
The bottom line is as Rutgers begins to win the tickets will sell and the stadium will be full. Before Schiano, Rutgers was drawing somewhere around 24 - 30k people to a game. After the 2006 season that number went up 35k on average. Now we regularly draw around 44k. Put more wins on the board and that number goes up to 54k.

 

[rubaseball78]

To add to Skinny's comments, in September RU competes with 3 baseball teams and 3 pro football teams. In October, RU competes with 1 baseball team, 3 pro football teams and, with the start of hockey and bball, 3 bball teams and 4 hockey teams. In November, its 3 pro football, 3 bball and 4 hockey. Given the amount of competition for interest, our stadium is probably the right size and we need to have an interesting, competitive product to fill it up. I'm not sure that there are many college teams around the country competing with up to 10 pro teams for fan interest.

 

[rufeelinit]

first break out year we have will result in the following season being sold out again For the season

It's all about the W and L

What is your definition of a break out year? I don't think 7-5 or even 8-4 on a stand alone basis is going to generate a significant amount of additional interest in season ticket commitments.

 

[rubaseball78]

What is your definition of a break out year? I don't think 7-5 or even 8-4 on a stand alone basis is going to generate a significant amount of additional interest in season ticket commitments.

10 wins and a New Year's Day bowl?

 

[MoobyCow]

What is your definition of a break out year? I don't think 7-5 or even 8-4 on a stand alone basis is going to generate a significant amount of additional interest in season ticket commitments.

Depends on what makes up the record. 8-4 with a few close losses and a big upset might do it. 8-4 like 2014, not so much.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

To add to Skinny's comments, in September RU competes with 3 baseball teams and 3 pro football teams. In October, RU competes with 1 baseball team, 3 pro football teams and, with the start of hockey and bball, 3 bball teams and 4 hockey teams. In November, its 3 pro football, 3 bball and 4 hockey. Given the amount of competition for interest, our stadium is probably the right size and we need to have an interesting, competitive product to fill it up. I'm not sure that there are many college teams around the country competing with up to 10 pro teams for fan interest.

matters not in the grand scheme of things. If Rutgers is winning, pricing is reasonable, the stadium fills up

 

[BROTHERSKINNY]

matters not in the grand scheme of things. If Rutgers is winning, pricing is reasonable, the stadium fills up

You are right to a degree but because there is so much competition here in NJ Rutgers has a harder time filling up the stadium in a down year like we are having. Really, what is there to do in Columbus, OH or Ann Arbor, MI? literally on any night of the week and especially on weekends, we have tons of interesting things to do and see. I am not putting Columbus or Ann Arbor down, but on Saturdays going to the OSU or Michigan home games IS the thing to do! As our on field product gets better tickets will sell better.

 

[MYHATINTHERING]

You are right to a degree but because there is so much competition here in NJ Rutgers has a harder time filling up the stadium in a down year like we are having. Really, what is there to do in Columbus, OH or Ann Arbor, MI? literally on any night of the week and especially on weekends, we have tons of interesting things to do and see. I am not putting Columbus or Ann Arbor down, but on Saturdays going to the OSU or Michigan home games IS the thing to do! As our on field product gets better tickets will sell better.

I think you are partially correct in your view of other areas, no question about it but remember, we have 10mm people living here, huge alumni base so it's a smaller variable in the grand scheme of things imho

yes there is competition but when we were winning, filling the stadium was never an issue. Prices are too high, product is not very good, add in the other distractions in the area and it's easy to see why the stadium is not filled.

It sucks, I want the stadium packed like everyone else but you have to be realistic here.

 

[Cheesesteak Vegas]

You are right to a degree but because there is so much competition here in NJ Rutgers has a harder time filling up the stadium in a down year like we are having. Really, what is there to do in Columbus, OH or Ann Arbor, MI? literally on any night of the week and especially on weekends, we have tons of interesting things to do and see. I am not putting Columbus or Ann Arbor down, but on Saturdays going to the OSU or Michigan home games IS the thing to do! As our on field product gets better tickets will sell better.

Do I think the presence of professional sports negatively impacts the "buzz" around Rutgers' athletics? I do.

Do I think that angle is severely overplayed on this board? Yes.

For one, your comparisons to other towns, such as State College, don't carry as much weight when you consider that the majority of people attending games in those locations travel a great distance, from places like Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Maryland, Virginia, Ohio, and even New York and New Jersey, where they are also surrounded by pro teams. Do they have as many pro teams as exist in the NY/NJ area? No. But does it really matter? A Pirates is a Pirates fan, and a Mets fan is a Mets fan. The Mets fan isn't also a Yankees fan, so he doesn't have an extra team competing for his time and money. Same goes with Giants v. Jets, Knicks v. Devils v. Islanders, and Knicks v. Nets.

RU has more than 67,000 students (and the Camden campus is only an hour from High Point Solutions Stadium). According to RU's web site, about two-thirds of its 470,000 alumni live in New Jersey. That's 315,000 people. And New Jersey isn't big; HPSS is no more than two hours or so from anywhere in the state. We're not even including those alums who might live in the Lehigh Valley, Philadelphia or NYC.

The point being: There are plenty of available customers for RU football. Some might not show up because a lot of the games start at noon, some might not buy tickets because they have family conflicts, and sure, some might choose to spend their sports ticket budget on season tickets to a pro team. But the two primary reasons, as far as I can tell, that RU doesn't attract more attention are (1) a lack of success and (2) an apparent lack of connection between the alumni and the school. The people on this board are clearly an exception when compared with the average RU alum; that's evident from football attendance right on through donations.

First and foremost, RU needs to win. It also needs to do a better job of fostering relationships with and creating a better college experience for its current students, so they want to donate to academics and athletics, return to campus, and attend games in the future, and work to repair whatever cracks are in that bridge with alumni.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

matters not in the grand scheme of things. If Rutgers is winning, pricing is reasonable, the stadium fills up

This really is it. Win on the field, don't embarrass off the field, the fans will be there (and more).

 

[srru86]

For single games, the general parking experience at the RAC with the lines and the bus rides is not pleasant.

This is just one example but compared to what? We had an Iowa fan post here specifically that they liked the bus transfer and thought it was a good system. Unlike many here I imagine this guy has been around some and seen other places. Have of those complaining ever taken the bus from the MetLife outlying lots?

Was anybody in Columbus waking up Saturday morning and saying, "Honey, do we have any plans today? No..., Great get the kids, Let's go to the game!" "Oh, wait we'll need to take a bus from the West Campus parking lot. Forget it."

Nobody in State College is saying "Screw the game I don't want to ride a public bus from a mall parking lot.

We got lots of "No Excuse" fans when it comes to their expectations on the field. But every excuse for fans not showing up.

 

[AreYouNUTS]

. For single games, the general parking experience at the RAC with the lines and the bus rides is not pleasant..

Only OUR fans feel this way. Every comment I've ever read here, or heard away from here, from visiting fans about the bus system has been positive. Our fans just like to whine.

 

[AshSaturday]

Last month. Section 105. I'm one of those people who used to bring the family. Starting this year now both girls are out of the house. Debated giving up two of my 4 tickets but decided to hold on to all and sell 2 when not using all 4. So far for the ones I have sold, got $55 for Iowa, $75 for Illinois and $250 for Michigan. Didn't try to sell Howard and used the tickets for New Mexico.

 

[e5fdny]

Another example to use is what we did when we first got into the Big East...nothing. Same thing, "Yay we're in the Big East (now B1G), now it's gonna happen! Just you watch!"

And people need to stop with using the size of the alumni base as "How come we don't.." since a lot of them 1. Don't care about sports 2. Don't really care about Rutgers 3. Not really Rutgers to begin with (IMO we should not at Camden and Newark).

But...the flipside (and this is the good part) is there is really no other school that I can think of, even with all the competition as listed in this thread already that just has to win, not WIN or WIN to to get all the good that comes with the latter two.

I mean think about what it was like with just a good season what happened on the back pages, TV and others around here.

We don't even have to WIN, just win and we get all the gravy that comes with it.

 

[AshSaturday]

BIG DIFFERENCE '78 on selling tickets this month vs last. RU hadn't lost 3 games or 58-0 to Ohio State last month. Last month RU had Grant (worth the price of admission
alone) and Lambert. 10 days ago there was no hurricane for Michigan for forecast of showers. ***For each game you mentioned the market is 50% of what you stated.

The problem is many don't purchase tickets to "profit or sell right off the bat"-they wait to see if friends are going,. schedule of their kids, yada. If the market isn't there late its that much more motivation not to renew.

Supposedly from talking to others professional scalpers (and even many on this board) buy up thousands of seats when they can profit. Tough to do for the past few years and coincidentally season sales are down.