Is HC Pike really going to turn heel?

[fluoxetine]

I respect the hell out of Pike, but he needs to change his approach

Not saying, he needs to be like Bob Huggins, urban Meyer, or one of those shade balls

Change needs to happen, and it needs to happen if he hopes to be here long-term, and more importantly, if we hope to become elite

The only time (and even this is debatable) that Pike has gotten demonstrably screwed by being “too nice” is with Paul Mulcahy. Cam doesn’t qualify.. he said he was going to be here until it was far too late to replace him adequately. What could Pike have plausibly done about that?

This whole notion that Pike is not competitive enough because he’s not an asshole in press conferences or constantly getting T’d up is fundamentally wrong. Those behaviors are maybe.. MAYBE.. correlated with competitiveness but they are not themselves competitiveness. You can be stoic and also a great competitor.

 

[PiscatawayMike]

I think Oskar should NOT get the talk. Bring him back and give him the only C. Honestly I think Pike should learn and stop with the captain on the jersey thing.

I'm hoping Oskar returns simply because I want to see him walk on Senior Day for a third time.

It would be a national story, proving how f'd up college basketball has been the past few years.

 

[richthedentist]

FYI - In the Big 10 you cannot kick somebody out if they are on scholarship. Can you have the talk, you aren't going to get any playing time, but coach cannot drop someone from team without cause. Rules are different though for grad players and 5th year seniors. No guarantee there.

Are you sure I thought all scholarships had to be renewed(not sure of the correct term) by the coaching staff in all sports?

 

[PhillyRU]

The only time (and even this is debatable) that Pike has gotten demonstrably screwed by being “too nice” is with Paul Mulcahy. Cam doesn’t qualify.. he said he was going to be here until it was far too late to replace him adequately. What could Pike have plausibly done about that?

This whole notion that Pike is not competitive enough because he’s not an asshole in press conferences or constantly getting T’d up is fundamentally wrong. Those behaviors are maybe.. MAYBE.. correlated with competitiveness but they are not themselves competitiveness. You can be stoic and also a great competitor.

You could maybe argue the way he’s handled Mag, but I generally agree

 

[Son of Red]

From a friend of a friend of someone on staff so FWIW: "Pike told them you have 10 days to decide in or out or scholarship is gone. Dylan and Ace recruiting other guys hard. Expect 3 players to return. GG, JMike & JW"

 

[JayDogSmooth]

The only time (and even this is debatable) that Pike has gotten demonstrably screwed by being “too nice” is with Paul Mulcahy. Cam doesn’t qualify.. he said he was going to be here until it was far too late to replace him adequately. What could Pike have plausibly done about that?

This whole notion that Pike is not competitive enough because he’s not an asshole in press conferences or constantly getting T’d up is fundamentally wrong. Those behaviors are maybe.. MAYBE.. correlated with competitiveness but they are not themselves competitiveness. You can be stoic and also a great competitor.

He’s taking some guys and stuck with them that have no business plan at this level

Souf
Miller
Dean
Etc.

Mag shook him down then mailed it in
Next year is make or break

 

[JayDogSmooth]

From a friend of a friend of someone on staff so FWIW: "Pike told them you have 10 days to decide in or out or scholarship is gone. Dylan and Ace recruiting other guys hard. Expect 3 players to return. GG, JMike & JW"

Perfect
I’m very confident pipe will do it as needed to get us to the next level
Judging by this, he’s already started the transition
Kudos him for being on top of it, and realizing the urgency of the situation

 

[Nycrusupporter]

From a friend of a friend of someone on staff so FWIW: "Pike told them you have 10 days to decide in or out or scholarship is gone. Dylan and Ace recruiting other guys hard. Expect 3 players to return. GG, JMike & JW"

We will find out who is really going to be running the show next season, Pike or Ace and Dylan . . .

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

From a friend of a friend of someone on staff so FWIW: "Pike told them you have 10 days to decide in or out or scholarship is gone. Dylan and Ace recruiting other guys hard. Expect 3 players to return. GG, JMike & JW"

he cant do that with ogobole woolfolk derek and chol

 

[NickRU714]

He’s not going to “force” anyone out. He’s going to have honest conversations with each kid about their situation and the likelihood of seeing significant PT next year.

Mag is an easy one. In his case, it should be understandable that we’re not “holding a spot” while he shops around his other options. If he wants to come back, he needs to indicate that immediately. My guess is that doesn’t happen.

Simpson should get a frank conversation about where he stands. J Williams is flat out better than him. The hope is that Gavin reestablishes himself as a shooter and we will also look to bring in proven sharp shooter. With Dylan - that doesn’t leave a ton of back court minutes for Derek. I can’t imagine Derek wants to go from what he’s been to a 15 mpg role player as defensive stopper. That’s a much more suitable role for Davis knowing he’ll have 2 more years afterwards.

But what if Simpson says he's fine being 3rd G behind JWill/Dylan in exchange for playing and making a run with Ace/Dylan?

And then as a senior in 2025 he's the most senior Guard on the roster.

What's to say we don't go Dylan, JWill, Simpson, Ace, Clif next year?

Unless the "talk" is that we are going to bring in a transfer guard regardless and Simpson/Davis are 4th/5th guards.
But HC Pike can't do that until he's sure he has the roster spot available.

 

[mikeyo]

The only time (and even this is debatable) that Pike has gotten demonstrably screwed by being “too nice” is with Paul Mulcahy. Cam doesn’t qualify.. he said he was going to be here until it was far too late to replace him adequately. What could Pike have plausibly done about that?

This whole notion that Pike is not competitive enough because he’s not an asshole in press conferences or constantly getting T’d up is fundamentally wrong. Those behaviors are maybe.. MAYBE.. correlated with competitiveness but they are not themselves competitiveness. You can be stoic and also a great competitor.

Yep. And you don't have to be a loudmouth drunk like Bob Huggins

 

[NickRU714]

he cant do that with ogobole woolfolk derek and chol

He can if he's turning heel and operating more like Pitino or Deion Sanders as HC.

But as you said above - that isn't the public persona he (and the fanbase) have advocated for previously.

 

[fatsam98]

he cant do that with ogobole woolfolk derek and chol

Pike seemed totally fed up with the team yesterday. I'm sure he's pushing some or all of those 4 out. I mean he better be

 

[JayDogSmooth]

he cant do that with ogobole woolfolk derek and chol

Chol will get the talk
Wolf could too

 

[JayDogSmooth]

He can if he's turning heel and operating more like Pitino or Deion Sanders as HC.

But as you said above - that isn't the public persona he (and the fanbase) have advocated for previously.

It’s not turning heel
Its straight business

Heel is Huggins, Urban, etc
There’s a big difference between those guys and some of the others that treat this as a business

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

But what if Simpson says he's fine being 3rd G behind JWill/Dylan in exchange for playing and making a run with Ace/Dylan?

And then as a senior in 2025 he's the most senior Guard on the roster.

What's to say we don't go Dylan, JWill, Simpson, Ace, Clif next year?

Unless the "talk" is that we are going to bring in a transfer guard regardless and Simpson/Davis are 4th/5th guards.
But HC Pike can't do that until he's sure he has the roster spot available.

Mag is gone. I’d be beyond shocked if he returns. That spot isn’t going to a 4. Ace is a 4 and we have 2 frosh forwards coming in. We will be in the market for a Cam Spencer type who can slide 2 and 3. J. Will and dylan can also slide 1-3. Whoever returns - Simpson/Davis or both will be behind all 3 of these guys - at least if we are successful in bringing in someone good with the expectation of starter minutes. That’s my point. I think Davis will be willing to be 4 alongside Gavin. Simpson won’t.

But look - in fairness - if he still wants to return, no big deal. That’s fine. If we hypothetically dropped either Wolf or Ogbole, and dropped Chol, that makes room for all the frosh. With Mag leaving - we bringing in a tall shooting guard type. As long as that player is a starter with numbers like Cam’s and not based on a fraction of a season followed by an injury (Noah) I think we’d be in good shape. After one top guard - I don’t realistically seeing us being able to bring another elite player too unless it’s to replace Cliff. The issue is more Simpson’s attitude. It’s not easy to go from highest volume shooter to utility player.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Mag is gone. I’d be beyond shocked if he returns. That spot isn’t going to a 4. Ace is a 4 and we have 2 frosh forwards coming in. We will be in the market for a Cam Spencer type who can slide 2 and 3. J. Will and dylan can also slide 1-3. Whoever returns - Simpson/Davis or both will be behind all 3 of these guys - at least if we are successful in bringing in someone good with the expectation of starter minutes. That’s my point. I think Davis will be willing to be 4 alongside Gavin. Simpson won’t.

I think/hope Derek can read the room about how his teammates think about him. If it is obvious to me the fan who saw it live 16-17 times it has to be known by a guy who spends 3+ hours per day with the team. I'd be shocked if he signed up for another season of it, especially when there is going to be interest and money elsewhere.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Mag is gone. I’d be beyond shocked if he returns. That spot isn’t going to a 4. Ace is a 4 and we have 2 frosh forwards coming in. We will be in the market for a Cam Spencer type who can slide 2 and 3. J. Will and dylan can also slide 1-3. Whoever returns - Simpson/Davis or both will be behind all 3 of these guys - at least if we are successful in bringing in someone good with the expectation of starter minutes. That’s my point. I think Davis will be willing to be 4 alongside Gavin. Simpson won’t.

Mag Derek Chol are all gone I'd think. pretty confident Woolfolk is gone and am not sure about ogobole.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Mag’s gone
He shook down the staff at the last minute and then mailed it in for the majority of the season

Cliff is 50-50
My gut and a lot of my emotion says he stays, as playing with Ace and Dylan will open up his game to what it should be

J Mike, Jay Will, and Gavin will all be here absent of a crazy NIL deal

Derek I’m not so sure of, this year was his chance to shine, and he did not come through, looking what we have coming in next year, and returning, he may see the writing on the wall

Wolf or big O will get “the talk,” likely wolf
Chol is gone
Oscar can come back if he’s willing to be the last guy on the bench

I’m probably leaving a returning player or two out but off the top of my head this is my best guess

 

[fluoxetine]

He’s taking some guys and stuck with them that have no business plan at this level

Souf
Miller
Dean
Etc.

Mag shook him down then mailed it in
Next year is make or break

Those were recruiting misses but not really sure what part of it had to do with being too nice.

 

[JayDogSmooth]

Those were recruiting misses but not really sure what part of it had to do with being too nice.

The Recruiting misses I can understand, but not cutting Dean and Jaylin loose ASAP are on him.

 

[bitnez]

Pike was down on this group. He had a look on his face last night that said I’m not letting this happens again. I expect big changes.

 

[rubaseball78]

Are you sure I thought all scholarships had to be renewed(not sure of the correct term) by the coaching staff in all sports?

Just did a little poking around and can only come up with they are guaranteed scholarship throughout their academic career as long as they are in good standing. Only found a couple vague references to it being for 4 years. However I am fairly certain guarantee does not apply to someone who has graduated and would be playing as a grad student.

 

[Degaz-RU]

As Nucky Thompson (Boardwalk Empire) famously said, "You can't be half a gangster."

In this instance, Pike can't just go halfway with trying to bring an Elite Eight-caliber team to the Banks. He sold his soul to the Recruiting Devil by bringing in TWO "one and done" players. He now owes it to the team and to himself to surround those two Lottery Picks with a really good surrounding cast, and he will need to have some really hard conversations and make some tough decisions in order to implement his goal.

In my analogy, some current players are going to get whacked.

 

[RUInsanity]

He can if he's turning heel and operating more like Pitino or Deion Sanders as HC.

But as you said above - that isn't the public persona he (and the fanbase) have advocated for previously.

Just curious why you would think that the only 2 ways to effectively manage this would be "Nice Guy who gets walked on" or "Heel".

Seems to me that effective situational management would entail Pike being transparent about the player's prospects and future with the program as well as how they may better reach their potential at another program/level.

Also - not sure I would assume what Pike wants each player to do. For instance he may want Simpson back and think he would be more effective in a more limited role as 3rd or 4th guard behind JWill / Dylan.

 

[goru7]

Pike must address the 2 huge deficiencies of this team. Guards that can impact games , can shoot , drive and make layups and pass to make their teammates better and the atrocious defensive rebounding.

UNC missed the NCAA ‘s last year and brought in Harrison Ingram , Cormat Ryan and Weathers. Ingram has been an absolute beast rebounding the ball , helping Bacot , scores double figures and can hit the 3. Ryan is the 3 point specialist and with the exception of a few games has been okay. Weathers has provided more rebounding , defense and blocked shots.

Pike has Dylan and Ace and Somerville to convince that level of transfer that they want to be here for the great ride. Bring on an Ingram type because the rebounding has to be fixed . Plus that guy will help ACE. Bring in a 3 point guard specialist to help Dylan and Jeremiah and provide needed shot making. Likely Cliff s gone and I am okay running with Somerville but if you can get a serviceable rim protector that can give 6-8 points a game then bring him in.
Pike has the leverage now. Once he pulls the trigger on portal guys then we can worry about who the 12 or 13 guy is because it is not very relevant for next year.

 

[RedTeam1994]

I don't get all the Oskar love. Sounds like he is a great teammate but he is not getting any better at this level. I would rather use the 13th scholarship on a walk on or project with upside.

really?

Come on man.

If Oskar wants to come back he is a very solid back of the rotation guy. Provides some experience and did someone say he gets along well with Harper? He’s basically the equivalent of a very high level walk on.

And in this day and age (with major roster turnover each year) the thought of reserving the spot for a project is….. very dated thinking

 

[RedTeam1994]

I think/hope Derek can read the room about how his teammates think about him. If it is obvious to me the fan who saw it live 16-17 times it has to be known by a guy who spends 3+ hours per day with the team. I'd be shocked if he signed up for another season of it, especially when there is going to be interest and money elsewhere.

What do is teammates think of him? What are you saying?

Are you saying they don’t like him?

First time Ive ever heard such a thing suggested……

 

[RedTeam1994]

From a friend of a friend of someone on staff so FWIW: "Pike told them you have 10 days to decide in or out or scholarship is gone. Dylan and Ace recruiting other guys hard. Expect 3 players to return. GG, JMike & JW"

That sounds great but what happens if the players that say “I’m in”…..are chol, wolf, etc

I appreciate your post but are players like chol abd wolf being given the option to come back?

 

[rufeelinit]

really?

Come on man.

If Oskar wants to come back he is a very solid back of the rotation guy. Provides some experience and did someone say he gets along well with Harper? He’s basically the equivalent of a very high level walk on.

And in this day and age (with major roster turnover each year) the thought of reserving the spot for a project is….. very dated thinking

You lost all credibility imo when you described OP as a solid back end of the rotation guy. Again he played 3 minutes last night when the team had nothing else going.

I really don’t care if Pike decides to keep him as the 13th man on roster but doing it for sentimental or loyalty reasons also represents dated thinking.

 

[RUDiddy777]

I don’t care much who the 13th man is, but it would not surprise me at all that a foreign born player who has now graduated has little interest to come back for a 5th year to sit on the bench. I would bet the odds are greater than 50% he will want to go back home and get on with his life.

Depends on whether or not he’s done with grad school.

I definitely want Oskar back.

 

[RUDiddy777]

That sounds great but what happens if the players that say “I’m in”…..are chol, wolf, etc

I appreciate your post but are players like chol abd wolf being given the option to come back?

Wolf is a tougher call than Chol. Chol won’t see minutes next year, he’s just too far away.

Wolf is still developing and has put in the work on his body between years 1 and 2.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Depends on whether or not he’s done with grad school.

I definitely want Oskar back.

As I said in another post, if you think your 13th man is going to make a difference, you have much bigger problems.

 

[RUDiddy777]

As I said in another post, if you think your 13th man is going to make a difference, you have much bigger problems.

Agreed - but he brings far more leadership and continuity than a traditional 13.

Was it you who said “Oskar can do whatever he wants”?

 

[RUInsanity]

As I said in another post, if you think your 13th man is going to make a difference, you have much bigger problems.

Don't think it would be about a difference maker. More about continuity and senior presence / leadership. Also the guy can play in an injury pinch vs. an elevated walk on.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Agreed - but he brings far more leadership and continuity than a traditional 13.

Was it you who said “Oskar can do whatever he wants”?

I have no problem bringing Oskar back if he wants to come back, just think it will have no impact on the team.

 

[RedTeam1994]

You lost all credibility imo when you described OP as a solid back end of the rotation guy. Again he played 3 minutes last night when the team had nothing else going.

I really don’t care if Pike decides to keep him as the 13th man on roster but doing it for sentimental or loyalty reasons also represents dated thinking.

I lost all credibility saying Oskar is solid for the LAST GUY ON THE BENCH ?

👌

FWIW I agree keeping him for loyalty or sentimental reasons would be dumb….

But of course that’s not what I said .

What I DID say was he’s hardly the worst end of bench guy for his experience and his supposed relationship with Harper.

THAT is what I said.

Also it certainly can’t hurt to have an older guy like him that really knows pikes system/ plays and thus could presumably help with all the new blood. Lastly we’ve only heard great things about him as a teammate.

So yeah for those reasons (not loyalty- never said it - but nice try) Oskar is an outstanding end-of-bench guy

 

[RUDiddy777]

I lost all credibility saying Oskar is solid for the LAST GUY ON THE BENCH ?

👌

FWIW I agree keeping him for loyalty or sentimental reasons would be dumb….

But not course that’s not what I said .

What I DID say was he’s hardly the worse end of bench guy for his experience and his supposed relationship with Harper.

THAT is what I said.

Also it certainly can’t hurt to have an older guy like him that really knows pikes system/ plays and thus could presumably help with all the new blood. Lastly we’ve only heard great things about him as a teammate.

So yeah for those reasons (not loyalty- never said it but nice try) Oskar is an outstanding end-of-bench guy

5 seasons with Pike. He’ll be like an extra coach.

And he’s just an awesome person.

 

[rufeelinit]

I lost all credibility saying Oskar is solid for the LAST GUY ON THE BENCH ?

👌

I don't equate "a solid back end of the rotation guy" with the last guy on the bench. Who has a rotation that goes 13 players? My initial comment in this thread was that I don't get all the love for OP. Everyone is posting their thoughts about who stays and who goes and there seems to be a real desire to keep OP but only to occupy a spot that will not contribute. I don't know the guy and maybe he is a great teammate, but if the choice is between him and someone like Ogbole, who I would consider a project that might be able to make a contribution in a limited role, I am picking Ogbole.

Also recall that if Paul and Cam don't leave late, OP is not even on the team this year. No one was shedding tears when he was off to Elon for awhile at the end of last year.

 

[RUBlackout]

I would rather free up a scholly for new blood rather than bringing back Oskar who I have appreciated over the past few years as a solid teammate. You know what have Hobbs give him some free tickets right behind the bench and he can root for the team and even wear a jersey to show support.