Jacob Young in practice

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

He still didn't get to the line in the minutes he was in the game. Last year, he averaged just 1.7 FT attempts per 40 minutes, up from 1.0 as a freshman. By contrast, Mathis gets to the line for 6.1 attempts per 40 min, McConnell 4.3, and Baker 3.4.

If you averaged out his minutes to 25/game, his average game over his sophomore year at Texas would have been: 25 min, 9.3 pt (2.0-3.9 2P, 1.5-4.6 3P, 0.7-1.1 FT), 2.5 rb, 1.1 ast, 0.9 tov, 1.0 stl

54% of his shots came from behind the arc, which is more than Baker/McConnell and just a touch behind Kiss, and he was a .323 shooter. Overall, his sophomore season at Texas is fairly close to Kiss' RS soph season this year, but with a bit more minutes per game.

Really hoping this RS year has helped him improve rebounding, looking for assists, and getting to the line. I'm not ready to annoint him with 25+ minutes yet until I've seen him play. People were talking about Kiss getting the same last year, and he's seeing half that.

I'd suggest watching some game tape of him at Texas. He was basically regulated in their offense to sitting in the corner when he clearly can do much more than that. I just think he was a bad fit for shaka

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Caleb

i don't know why some people don't realize how good of a defender caleb is. he forces a lot of bad shots

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

WAY WAY WAY too early to assume Kiss is out of the rotation and Young, Caleb, Harper and Mulcahy are in.

Right now Caleb is cookie dough ice cream and Peter Kiss is rum raisin (which I happen to like). I just can't believe that pikiell and company would miss that bad on Kiss and somewhere between now and when the season starts next year Kiss will figure it out.

How do I put this. Kiss is the dude who is good in rec basketball but then he tries out for the aau team and is just a guy who they can use as a practice dummy. Kiss isn't even close to the level of the aforementioned guys. I've said this before and people think I'm being a dick but I'm really just asking genuinely. What is one thing that Kiss can do better than Caleb, Geo, Harper, Montez, Young? Just one thing.

 

[Scangg]

How do I put this. Kiss is the dude who is good in rec basketball but then he tries out for the aau team and is just a guy who they can use as a practice dummy. Kiss isn't even close to the level of the aforementioned guys. I've said this before and people think I'm being a dick but I'm really just asking genuinely. What is one thing that Kiss can do better than Caleb, Geo, Harper, Montez, Young? Just one thing.

The phantom alley oop

But seriously the argument for Kiss would be he needs a year to adjust to the better competition (although he practiced against it all last year). The addition of Young and PM give him more set open 3 looks due to players collapsing on Young's penetration and PM's vision and passing. Kiss starts knocking them down with confidence and it impacts his overall game.

For me it's that Kiss and Thiam pretty much don't bring anything to the table offensively except shooting an open 3. If that is what you bring then you HAVE to knock down those 3s at a solid rate. Neither really looks to penetrate for their own shot or create for others. They are just non threats with the ball in their hand which hurts the offense overall. Geo Caleb Montez Harper Young PM all can do something with the ball in their hands

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

The phantom alley oop

But seriously the argument for Kiss would be he needs a year to adjust to the better competition (although he practiced against it all last year). The addition of Young and PM give him more set open 3 looks due to players collapsing on Young's penetration and PM's vision and passing. Kiss starts knocking them down with confidence and it impacts his overall game.

For me it's that Kiss and Thiam pretty much don't bring anything to the table offensively except shooting an open 3. If that is what you bring then you HAVE to knock down those 3s at a solid rate. Neither really looks to penetrate for their own shot or create for others. They are just non threats with the ball in their hand which hurts the offense overall. Geo Caleb Montez Harper Young PM all can do something with the ball in their hands

So here's the thing if the ONLY thing kiss can do is knock down an open 3, well our other guards have also proven they can do that PLUS put the ball on the floor and get to the rim and be plus defenders. For example, Caleb is shooting friggin 42% from 3 in big ten play, that's just absurd. Ron Harper can knock down an open 3 plus lead the run out and get to the hole and defender bigger players, Geo is Geo, Young is a LOCKDOWN defender and a playmaker, PM has one of the best handles you'll ever see and is a tremendous passer. So I just don't see where someone like Kiss can ever crack the lineup unless it's garbage team against FDU early on.

Bottom line, if Eugene stays healthy next year, I really think we have a legitimate shot of dancing, and pikiell should schedule accordingly

 

[phlop87]

schedule accordingly ??? Would you have him dumb it down to get wins or beef it up to get experience in tight games against better comp

 

[kcg88]

schedule accordingly ??? Would you have him dumb it down to get wins or beef it up to get experience in tight games against better comp

Play better teams. If you schedule teams in lower-conferences, you want to schedule ones near the top. So, Bucknell or Lehigh instead of Boston U, St. Bonaventure instead of Fordham, etc.

 

[soundcrib]

Last year B1G proved that a not so hot out of conference doesn’t mean squat even with plenty of wins.

 

[ruready07]

We're gonna have a very balanced team next year. I think we're gonna have the type of team where every single night you'll have no idea who our best player will be because we'll have some many capable guys. We're gonna have just a very very very solid team. I think end of game, Geo will still be the go to guy but god damn we have such a solid team next year with so many scoring options. I said a couple weeks ago that it might not show % wise at the moment but Caleb's 3 ball is smoooooooth and he can be a sniper. He's shooting 64% from 3 in his last 3 big ten games now. When you have a guy like that, who can come off the bench and not only snipe but drive past guys when they close out too hard, it becomes a big problem for other teams. Next year is very exciting.

We have a few guys - Caleb, Myles, Harper - who are just one off-season away from taking their game to a higher level.
A bigger, stronger, more confident Caleb is a dangerous player.
A stronger, more confident Myles will be a serious weapon on both sides of the court.
I’m not sure what Harper needs physically - it’s so hard to tell where his physique is going that it’s hard to prescribe a strength and conditioning plan to him. I’d like to see him get bigger and develop some sort of game 10 feet from the basket

 

[bowlgoal]

WAY WAY WAY too early to assume Kiss is out of the rotation and Young, Caleb, Harper and Mulcahy are in.

Right now Caleb is cookie dough ice cream and Peter Kiss is rum raisin (which I happen to like). I just can't believe that pikiell and company would miss that bad on Kiss and somewhere between now and when the season starts next year Kiss will figure it out.

Peter KIss will come around and I honestly think now he’s a good role player who has made some big shots. He needs to hit he FTs though. My guess is he works his ass off this off season now that he’s had a taste of how fast big 10 play really is. It’s one thing watching from the sidelines but playing the kind of defense that pikiell expects and getting open against the best players in college hoops are two different things.

I love the additions of young and mulcahy and the last ship to be given has to be a home run. Maybe another ship comes available because of a transfer but we need to take the next step in recruiting.

 

[knights1212]

I think we can press much more next year with the speed of Mathis and Young. we will have a lot of depth at guard I can see us usually going three guards and even at times four. The season should be very enjoyable.

 

[superfan01]

Peter KIss will come around and I honestly think now he’s a good role player who has made some big shots. He needs to hit he FTs though. My guess is he works his ass off this off season now that he’s had a taste of how fast big 10 play really is. It’s one thing watching from the sidelines but playing the kind of defense that pikiell expects and getting open against the best players in college hoops are two different things.

I love the additions of young and mulcahy and the last ship to be given has to be a home run. Maybe another ship comes available because of a transfer but we need to take the next step in recruiting.

It’s not the kiss can’t get better or contribute I just don’t know whose minutes he should be taking next year. There just might be better guys then him on roster

I think he has been recruited over with all the guards we have brought in. This isn’t a bad thing.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

So here's the thing if the ONLY thing kiss can do is knock down an open 3, well our other guards have also proven they can do that PLUS put the ball on the floor and get to the rim and be plus defenders. For example, Caleb is shooting friggin 42% from 3 in big ten play, that's just absurd. Ron Harper can knock down an open 3 plus lead the run out and get to the hole and defender bigger players, Geo is Geo, Young is a LOCKDOWN defender and a playmaker, PM has one of the best handles you'll ever see and is a tremendous passer. So I just don't see where someone like Kiss can ever crack the lineup unless it's garbage team against FDU early on.

Bottom line, if Eugene stays healthy next year, I really think we have a legitimate shot of dancing, and pikiell should schedule accordingly

Settle down Beavis

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

At this point it's actually the only logical thing to conclude. The season is almost over. Sure Kiss could come back a better player next season and earn a spot but at this point you have to assume the players mentioned would be above him in the rotation. Why wouldn't they be?

Kiss has done more this season than Caleb. Mulcahy is in high school. Jacob Young was a 3rd guard at Texas.

I need more of a sample to see what Caleb really is. Need to take all his games in to consideration not his best or last.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

How do I put this. Kiss is the dude who is good in rec basketball but then he tries out for the aau team and is just a guy who they can use as a practice dummy. Kiss isn't even close to the level of the aforementioned guys. I've said this before and people think I'm being a dick but I'm really just asking genuinely. What is one thing that Kiss can do better than Caleb, Geo, Harper, Montez, Young? Just one thing.

Why did Pikiell take him knowing he’d take a spot for 4 years and be able to play for 3?

 

[Mr Magoo]

Jacob Young can join a special squad.

PG Nigel Johnson (best player on roster 2015)
SG Jacob Young (best player on roster 2018)
SF Peter Kiss (best scorer on roster 2017)
PF Wally Judge (best player on roster 20??)
C ????? can't put Brent Dabbs because he helped us make our last NCAAT

I’m adding Johnnie Blake as the best JUCO transfer 3 point shooter to the team.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Kiss was streaky as a freshman. Unfortunate we haven’t seen him get hot.

http://www.barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?t=Quinnipiac&year=2017&p=Peter+Kiss

 

[Mr Magoo]

Kiss has done more this season than Caleb. Mulcahy is in high school. Jacob Young was a 3rd guard at Texas.

I need more of a sample to see what Caleb really is. Need to take all his games in to consideration not his best or last.

This. There is a tendency to over-react both positively and negatively on a player’s last game. Caleb had a phenomenal game Saturday against a very unusual team. He has a lot of promise but to expect a lot of similar performances right now is a set up for disappointment.

 

[RUInsanity]

Kiss has done more this season than Caleb. Mulcahy is in high school. Jacob Young was a 3rd guard at Texas.

I need more of a sample to see what Caleb really is. Need to take all his games in to consideration not his best or last.

You need to take the fact that Caleb is a true freshman into consideration as well. Further, Caleb's per 40 Min stats are slightly better than Kiss this season. Caleb also has an added dimension that he can play 3 Positions vs. 2 for Kiss. That being said, I believe that Kiss will be in the rotation next year. He's a fiery type of player with athleticism that is good for any roster and if he can iron out his 3 point accuracy, he will remain an asset even if only for a spot up shooter. We'll see.....but if Kiss is not able to achieve significant minutes next year it will ultimately be due to Young and Mulcahy being very good and/or Thiam stepping up or Harper developing further....all of which would be a sign of good things to come for RU via advancing their Roster depth and talent. Note that I think Harper will end up playing some 4 as his wingspan is 7' 2" and he appears to have a frame that can handle some banging down low.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Settle down Beavis

Ill ask the question yourself and others refuse to answer. Name me ONE thing Kiss can do better than our other back court players next year. And im not being a dick when i ask that question

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

Kiss has done more this season than Caleb. Mulcahy is in high school. Jacob Young was a 3rd guard at Texas.

I need more of a sample to see what Caleb really is. Need to take all his games in to consideration not his best or last.

Kiss has done more than caleb!? Against who FDU? Come on man get outta here. Compare their stats vs big ten competition, apples and oranges. If your seriously think kiss can hold calebs jock youre a fool

 

[Bill 86]

In that video is that Doucore on the scout team? Is his back good enough for that? I assume we will need him next year. Anyone?

 

[ColonelRutgers]

Jacob Young can join a special squad.

PG Nigel Johnson (best player on roster 2015)
SG Jacob Young (best player on roster 2018)
SF Peter Kiss (best scorer on roster 2017)
PF Wally Judge (best player on roster 20??)
C ????? can't put Brent Dabbs because he helped us make our last NCAAT

Disappointed, man. How could you forget the latest in the line of great RU Centers? James Bailey, Roy Hinson and ...Lloyd Moore.

 

[bac2therac]

So here's the thing if the ONLY thing kiss can do is knock down an open 3, well our other guards have also proven they can do that PLUS put the ball on the floor and get to the rim and be plus defenders. For example, Caleb is shooting friggin 42% from 3 in big ten play, that's just absurd. Ron Harper can knock down an open 3 plus lead the run out and get to the hole and defender bigger players, Geo is Geo, Young is a LOCKDOWN defender and a playmaker, PM has one of the best handles you'll ever see and is a tremendous passer. So I just don't see where someone like Kiss can ever crack the lineup unless it's garbage team against FDU early on.

Bottom line, if Eugene stays healthy next year, I really think we have a legitimate shot of dancing, and pikiell should schedule accordingly

What schools are we passing next year

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

What schools are we passing next year

Illinois, psu, northwestern, nebraska, indiana, purdue and i think we’ll be lumped right with minny, tOSU, wiscy

 

[RU-Choppin-Ohio]

What Jacob Young will bring.to this team was highlighted in that play. A quick guard that has the ability to beat their man in a one on one situation.

Only Mathis can do that now.....and it remains to be seen if Mulcahy is quick enough to do it against college guards.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Ill ask the question yourself and others refuse to answer. Name me ONE thing Kiss can do better than our other back court players next year. And im not being a dick when i ask that question

I havent seen enough of McConnell to conclude...
1. shooting
2. ball handling
3. volume shooting
4. scoring
5. trust worthiness with game on line

I think if/when Kiss gets hot he has a quicker shot and may be able to score more than others. He can certainly jump higher (not that it translates to much )

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Illinois, psu, northwestern, nebraska, indiana, purdue and i think we’ll be lumped right with minny, tOSU, wiscy

you are nuts....

 

[BigEastPhil]

Illinois, psu, northwestern, nebraska, indiana, purdue and i think we’ll be lumped right with minny, tOSU, wiscy

Agree we'll pass PSU; Northwestern and Nebraska next year and we have arguably passed them already.

On the other squads you mentioned:

1. Illinois: Similar to Rutgers, they are very young and athletic and they have a 4 / 5 * Big guy coming in next year. I would not bet on us passing Illinois though it may / could happen.

2. Purdue: They will lose Carson Edwards I'm sure to the NBA but they also have good young talent ready to emerge with Wheeler; Eastern and Williams. Plus they always seem to find those Indiana shooters who can shoot lights out. Tough task here to pass them but not impossible.

3. Indiana: I'm sure they will lose Langford to the NBA and Morgan graduates and again similar to us - they are young with good talent ready to emerge and Archie Miller is going to recruit top notch players to Indiana. Again not impossible but will be tough.

It's not impossible to pass the squads above but all things will have to go right for us to do so.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Kiss has done more than caleb!? Against who FDU? Come on man get outta here. Compare their stats vs big ten competition, apples and oranges. If your seriously think kiss can hold calebs jock youre a fool

He has outscored Caleb 20-10 in our 4 B1G wins. He did hit a big 3 in 1 of them (and then almost lost the game).

I hope you are right....just need to see more. AND I can't think Pikiell would miss this badly on a guy he has 32 games vs D1 competition to judge.

 

[BigEastPhil]

I havent seen enough of McConnell to conclude...
1. shooting
2. ball handling
3. volume shooting
4. scoring
5. trust worthiness with game on line

I think if/when Kiss gets hot he has a quicker shot and may be able to score more than others. He can certainly jump higher (not that it translates to much )

I agree with your assessment of Caleb. He has certainly improved significantly from the beginning of the year but the question is can he sustain this for the full year and is he the type of kid that can play well for 20+ minutes per game. I don't know the answer to both questions as some kids are better playing for 10-15 minutes per game as a change of pace type of kid which is what Caleb may be.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sorry...we will be picked last again next year.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I agree with your assessment of Caleb. He has certainly improved significantly from the beginning of the year but the question is can he sustain this for the full year and is he the type of kid that can play well for 20+ minutes per game. I don't know the answer to both questions as some kids are better playing for 10-15 minutes per game as a change of pace type of kid which is what Caleb may be.

I'd love it if he was a 20 MPG guy because that would mean he was putting the ball in the basket.

 

[Scangg]

It's getting pretty funny to see who are constantly wrong yet constantly think they are right on this board. "Kiss better than Caleb" is really a hot take at this point. I really can't see how anyone could watch our games and think that. There are also people thinking this was Caleb's only good game. Really? One post I do agree with is Kiss does seem like the type that can get hot and in bball if it happens you ride it, but it's basically been an entire season without Kiss catching fire unfortunately. He's hit a few shots, but Caleb has been the better shooter... and he has Kiss clearly beat in every other category.

Notice no one STILL answered kyk's question of what Kiss does better than Caleb or the rest of the perimeter players. People just insult him while keep on keeping on with their wrong takes lol.

Caleb is better than Kiss now and has such a higher ceiling. He's a better passer, shooter, ball handler, defender, rebounder, scorer. He has better bball IQ and court vision. Lengthhh. Caleb can get into the lane better and take it all the way to the rim. Kiss jumps higher but he doesn't use it. It's really obvious that Caleb is just an overall more complete player and a more natural basketball player. If you can't see that, your player evaluation skills are just plain bad. It really is that obvious.

His one knock as I see it is occasionally being a little timid/indecisive out there which leads to some bad turnovers (see this with Kiss also) but when Caleb gets aggressive in attack mode and has the confidence going you can see that massive potential. He will play like that more consistently as he gets more minutes and experience. As will the rest of the freshman. Kiss's upside would be if he can truly turn into a lights out shooter but it does seem unlikely even though has a nice stroke.

 

[RU_DIO]

Caleb is 1 year our of high school and Kiss 3 years out of high school. Caleb has been playing better than Kiss for the last 10 games or so

 

[Mr Magoo]

We have a few guys - Caleb, Myles, Harper - who are just one off-season away from taking their game to a higher level.
A bigger, stronger, more confident Caleb is a dangerous player.
A stronger, more confident Myles will be a serious weapon on both sides of the court.
I’m not sure what Harper needs physically - it’s so hard to tell where his physique is going that it’s hard to prescribe a strength and conditioning plan to him. I’d like to see him get bigger and develop some sort of game 10 feet from the basket

It will be interesting to see which of the freshman, if any, take their games to the next level. I was hoping for that from Sanders for three seasons and it never happened. I was also hoping that from Baker this year but he’s the same player as last year ( not that there is anything wrong with that).

A Hinson-Battle-Douby breakout season from any of them would be fun.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

I havent seen enough of McConnell to conclude...
1. shooting
2. ball handling
3. volume shooting
4. scoring
5. trust worthiness with game on line

I think if/when Kiss gets hot he has a quicker shot and may be able to score more than others. He can certainly jump higher (not that it translates to much )

Wait, so you think Kiss is not only maybe better but even close to McConnell with the 5 above? if that's what you're saying, I just don't know what to say and I have a hard time believing we're watching the same games

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

It was 2 years ago when we didn't have the following players committed, when Kiss was available via transfer.

Mathis, Harper, Caleb, Shaq Carter, Jacob Young, Paul Mulcahy.

This isn't a knock on Kiss, it's not a miss by Pike. He took a player that coming off the 2nd season, didn't have any idea or assurances that this many talented kids would land at RU (Young and Caleb specifically) or were not yet committed (Mathis and Mulcahy).

I don't hold the notion that Kiss doesn't have value, it's just clearer that as the roster has more talent or versatility than before, it becomes more obvious that Kiss and Thiam have limitations to their offensive games.

Young is an explosive athlete who can generate his own offense, on a team that has players learning how to do that (beyond Geo Baker). Harper, Caleb and Mathis are all capable of taking their man off the dribble and are a threat to shoot, pass or score at the basket, where Kiss and Thiam haven't shown that enough.

It's much easier to defend Kiss and Thiam, if you're an opponent, which is the best way to evaluate a player beyond stats. I think Kiss has a role on the roster, but like everyone else, it's going to be up to him to add dimensions to his offense so he can earn minutes.

 

[anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy]

you are nuts....

why's that?

PSU is awful and they lose their best player
Illinois is even with us now and may lose their best player to the NBA
Nebraska loses everybody and will probably be in year 1 of a massive rebuild
Northwestern is about even with us now and they lose their top 3 scorers
Purdue loses their two top guards in edwards and kline
and indiana loses by far their two top players on what is already a medicore team

AND we return everybody and get older plus add in a 4th year player in jacob young and a young frosh PG who should be able to play 12-15 good minutes a night.

Personally I just think you're stuck in a negative mindset to think that we won't be right in the middle of the pack with iowa, wisconsin and ohio state.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Wait, so you think Kiss is not only maybe better but even close to McConnell with the 5 above? if that's what you're saying, I just don't know what to say and I have a hard time believing we're watching the same games

I can't conclude that McConnell is better than Kiss. I have seen McConnell play god awful and i have seen him play very good. I have yet to see Pikiell put his trust in McConnell in a big spot. i really don't have a sense yet of what McConnell is.