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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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not by anyone who pays attention to this league. I think our FLOOR next year is #11 our ceiling could be as high as #5
Jacob Young in practice
- Thread starter whofrewdatmataRU13
- Start date
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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when have you seen mcconnell be god awful? Beginning of the year he wasnt getting enough mins to be god awful, he was literally playing like 2 minutes per night. And starting at the end of december when he started getting regular mins he's been far from god awful. Lets just agree to disagree here because I can't disagree with you more. It's hard to fathom someone thinking Peter Kiss and Caleb McConnell are on the same level
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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i agree it's a miss but you've been saying for the whole thread that you won't call it a miss lol
I like our freshman class, but Purdue blows ours out of the water.
All Penn State loses is Reaves. On paper they appear better than us.
Nebraska may actually be below us.
Forget illinois
Wisconsin will be at worst middle of the league
Iowa loses no one
NW will be right with us
Our floor is not 11, it will be 14.
I like Pikiell and I really like our players. We are still light years from 10-10 in B1G.
I need more of a sample. I am not making ANY conclusions. How can you?
Believe me I really want McConnell to be much better than Kiss.....or I'd want Kiss to be a more dependable shooter, be much better on the defensive end, have a better nose for the ball, and help out more on the glass....(and stop celebrating everytime he scores)
Pikiell had 32 games of film to look at vs. D1 compeition. he knew he'd get a BIG ZERO from him in Year 1 as he would be in street clothes. If Kiss ends up never being in the rotation it is a HUGE MISS. Terrible mistake. If Mulcahy is a bust I can understand it, but tough to excuse Kiss or Young for that matter.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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How can I? Just merely watching the games. I don't think it's that complicated. I continue to ask the question that no one can answer. What is ONE thing that 3rd year kiss does better than 1st year mcconnell?
I think Pike expected Kiss to play a bigger role - especially at the time he announced his transfer, and we didn't have other players committed yet.
And at the start of this year, Kiss was our starting SG. For the first 9 games of the season before Mathis broke through, he was averaging 27.6 min, 9.4 pts (.400 FG, .366 3P%), 3.0 rb, 1.4 ast, 1.4 tov. In the first two B1G games early in the season, he averaged 34 min, 11.4 pts, 2.5 rbs, 2.0 ast, 0.0 tov
He's been passed on the depth chart at this point by both Mathis and McConnell, but he was the starter and getting the lion's share of the guard minutes alongside Baker in the early going.
If Mathis and McConnell hadn't been signed after Kiss had transferred in, it's possible he'd still be getting starter's minutes.
He was recruited over. I don't see him as a "miss" the same way I see Mensah and Bullock as misses.
And at the start of this year, Kiss was our starting SG. For the first 9 games of the season before Mathis broke through, he was averaging 27.6 min, 9.4 pts (.400 FG, .366 3P%), 3.0 rb, 1.4 ast, 1.4 tov. In the first two B1G games early in the season, he averaged 34 min, 11.4 pts, 2.5 rbs, 2.0 ast, 0.0 tov
He's been passed on the depth chart at this point by both Mathis and McConnell, but he was the starter and getting the lion's share of the guard minutes alongside Baker in the early going.
If Mathis and McConnell hadn't been signed after Kiss had transferred in, it's possible he'd still be getting starter's minutes.
He was recruited over. I don't see him as a "miss" the same way I see Mensah and Bullock as misses.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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you seriously think Kiss is better under pressure than mcconnell? You do remember the end of the indiana game right? Where kiss turned over the ball on the inbound, missed 4 straight free throws and then almost turned it over again and almost got a T for getting bullied, right? Come on man. Come on, youre better than that. How did mcconnell look under pressure down the stretch on the road @ illinois? Has kiss ever looked like that? youre being a clown now
There have been countless times when Pikiell this year wanted to give Baker rest, but couldn't because McConnell would turn the ball over or run the offense 35 feet from the basket.
As a result Baker has had to play way too many minutes.
The reality is we learn more over the next 9 games and get more possessions to assess whether either player can help a B1G team be competitive in the standings. My 1st gut guess is both need a lot of improvement. there are some really good guards in the B1G. Right now we are more behind on the perimeter vs. inside.
As a result Baker has had to play way too many minutes.
The reality is we learn more over the next 9 games and get more possessions to assess whether either player can help a B1G team be competitive in the standings. My 1st gut guess is both need a lot of improvement. there are some really good guards in the B1G. Right now we are more behind on the perimeter vs. inside.
Timeline:
3/26/16 - Bullock commits
7/27/16 - Baker commits
11/11/16 - 2016-17 season starts
1/5/17 - Mensah commits
3/9/17 - 2016-17 season ends
3/24/17 - Johnson announces transfer
So, coming out of the 2016-17 season, we were looking at 2017-18 guards of Sanders, Baker, Williams, and Mensah.... and knowing that after the season Williams would graduate, and Sanders may bolt to the NBA. Bullock was also there, but was projected more as a 3 than a 1/2.
4/23/17 - Kiss transfers into RU
Kiss was the first guard added that would be eligible starting in the 2018-19 season, and at this point we were looking at Baker, Kiss, and Mensah as our backcourt, with some other prospects on the line.
8/3/17 - McClung commits
8/4/17 - Mathis commits
8/11/17 - Harper Jr. commits
Expectation at this point is that we'd have Baker, Mathis, McClung, Kiss, and Mensah as our backcourt with Harper, Thiam, and Bullock on the wing. Things were much more settled, and it looked as though Kiss may have to fight for his minutes on the wing with Harper.
10/6/17 - McClung decommits from Rutgers
10/15/17 - McClung commits to Georgetown
11/10/17 - 2017-18 season starts
Losing out on McClung, and realizing quickly that Mensah and Bullock were not going to be much help, we were now staring at Baker, Mathis, and Kiss as our backcourt with hopes that Sanders would return and watching the staff put a full court recruiting press on Tai Strickland.
3/2/18 - 2017-18 season ends
3/23/18 - Mensah and Bullock granted releases
3/27/18 - Strickland commits to Wisconsin
3/29/18 - Sanders hires agent to go to NBA
At this point, with Sanders' decision final and Mensah/Bullock gone, we were looking at a 2018-19 season that had only Baker, Mathis, and Kiss in the backcourt... and we'd missed out on both McClung and Strickland. Expectation is now that Kiss would see significant minutes at guard.
4/15/18 - McConnell commits
4/21/18 - Young transfers to RU
6/16/18 - Mulcahy commits
With three guards now coming into the roster, we finally had a full backcourt. 2018-19 would see Baker, Mathis, Kiss, and McConnell... with Young and Mulcahy waiting in the wings.
11/9/18 - 2018-19 season starts
Baker/Kiss are the starting guards for the first 9 games, and McConnell and Mathis try to get up to game speed as true freshmen. Harper also tries to get up to game speed and push Thiam for minutes. As the season progresses, Harper and Mathis enter the starting lineup, Kiss falls into a reserve role, and Thiam all but disappears. McConnell now starts to heat up, and it really feels like Kiss has been recruited over and will be fighting for minutes next year.
At the time he committed, it felt like Kiss was going to be called on to be a significant contributor, and as this season started he was one. I really don't see that as a "miss" - as much as a guy just getting passed by talented freshmen.
3/26/16 - Bullock commits
7/27/16 - Baker commits
11/11/16 - 2016-17 season starts
1/5/17 - Mensah commits
3/9/17 - 2016-17 season ends
3/24/17 - Johnson announces transfer
So, coming out of the 2016-17 season, we were looking at 2017-18 guards of Sanders, Baker, Williams, and Mensah.... and knowing that after the season Williams would graduate, and Sanders may bolt to the NBA. Bullock was also there, but was projected more as a 3 than a 1/2.
4/23/17 - Kiss transfers into RU
Kiss was the first guard added that would be eligible starting in the 2018-19 season, and at this point we were looking at Baker, Kiss, and Mensah as our backcourt, with some other prospects on the line.
8/3/17 - McClung commits
8/4/17 - Mathis commits
8/11/17 - Harper Jr. commits
Expectation at this point is that we'd have Baker, Mathis, McClung, Kiss, and Mensah as our backcourt with Harper, Thiam, and Bullock on the wing. Things were much more settled, and it looked as though Kiss may have to fight for his minutes on the wing with Harper.
10/6/17 - McClung decommits from Rutgers
10/15/17 - McClung commits to Georgetown
11/10/17 - 2017-18 season starts
Losing out on McClung, and realizing quickly that Mensah and Bullock were not going to be much help, we were now staring at Baker, Mathis, and Kiss as our backcourt with hopes that Sanders would return and watching the staff put a full court recruiting press on Tai Strickland.
3/2/18 - 2017-18 season ends
3/23/18 - Mensah and Bullock granted releases
3/27/18 - Strickland commits to Wisconsin
3/29/18 - Sanders hires agent to go to NBA
At this point, with Sanders' decision final and Mensah/Bullock gone, we were looking at a 2018-19 season that had only Baker, Mathis, and Kiss in the backcourt... and we'd missed out on both McClung and Strickland. Expectation is now that Kiss would see significant minutes at guard.
4/15/18 - McConnell commits
4/21/18 - Young transfers to RU
6/16/18 - Mulcahy commits
With three guards now coming into the roster, we finally had a full backcourt. 2018-19 would see Baker, Mathis, Kiss, and McConnell... with Young and Mulcahy waiting in the wings.
11/9/18 - 2018-19 season starts
Baker/Kiss are the starting guards for the first 9 games, and McConnell and Mathis try to get up to game speed as true freshmen. Harper also tries to get up to game speed and push Thiam for minutes. As the season progresses, Harper and Mathis enter the starting lineup, Kiss falls into a reserve role, and Thiam all but disappears. McConnell now starts to heat up, and it really feels like Kiss has been recruited over and will be fighting for minutes next year.
At the time he committed, it felt like Kiss was going to be called on to be a significant contributor, and as this season started he was one. I really don't see that as a "miss" - as much as a guy just getting passed by talented freshmen.
Kiss did play that game down the stretch. He did make a big 3 pointer. he was 3-5 from the field and 0-2 from the line. Didn't he get a defensive rebound that led to the play where he almost got a T.
YOU NEED A BIGGER SAMPLE SIZE!!!!!
Caleb has the highest TO% on the team.....should we conclude anything off that
Caleb has the highest steal% on the team...should we conclude he can cause more TO than Mathis?
Let's revisit this discussion in a few weeks. He has earned more PT and we will get useful information that will help us assess his future.
Thanks for that breakdown......
#1 Pikiell's recruitment of McClung appears to be huge. Pretty sure it got Mathis in the fold, looking at your timeline maybe Harper, Jr. too.
#2 The issue isn't the need for Kiss. It is assessing that Kiss isn't the type of player that fits the system. I am sure there were many other options available.
I don't want to sound like one of those fans....didn't we all look at the shooting numbers and kind of shake our head? Couldn't watching film tell you that he wasn't the most engaged person on the defensive end or at getting loose balls? Maybe he thought he could "convert" Kiss.
#1 Pikiell's recruitment of McClung appears to be huge. Pretty sure it got Mathis in the fold, looking at your timeline maybe Harper, Jr. too.
#2 The issue isn't the need for Kiss. It is assessing that Kiss isn't the type of player that fits the system. I am sure there were many other options available.
I don't want to sound like one of those fans....didn't we all look at the shooting numbers and kind of shake our head? Couldn't watching film tell you that he wasn't the most engaged person on the defensive end or at getting loose balls? Maybe he thought he could "convert" Kiss.
It is possible we should get picked #11, but the reality is it would take a leap for people to pick RU over other schools.
I think people will take that leap if we when 3 more games this season and it’s possible starting with a win tonight on the road.
maybe, maybe not.
Looking at 2019.........
At this point most/all HS players you would want are off the board. That leaves GRAD transfers and regular transfers.
I am of the belief that grad transfer would be a very bad idea. You would really have to question why a player would choose a program for one year that wasn't expected to win and why we would pick a player for only one year.
That leaves the transfer (with this logic the selection of Kiss looks a little more stomach able). i still rather go with 4 year players. Do you leave a spot open?
If the spot isn't really going to get filled you have the same roster MINUS Doorson plus Young and Mulcahy.
That means 4 of (Mulcahy, Young, Caleb, Kiss, Issa and Harper) will need to step up and earn minutes. I am assuming Baker and Mathis as constants.
You got everybody coming back and
Gotta to get this win tonight. IMO, this game is a must win as far as perception. The rest of the season is about next year projections. Beat NW, PSU, and Iowa at home. Win at least one game in the B1G tourney and that put your record at 8-14 in conference. 15-16 and maybe a CBI appearance for a young team.
Agree that it's a very small sample size with Caleb. The TO% thing for a freshman guard, though, is kinda like the foul thing for a freshman big. It takes time and reps to grow out of - and I think he'll be better in that area next year.
Really hoping that Illinois was a "coming out party" for McConnell, and that the confidence boost really gives him some juice for the last 8+ games of the year.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
Really? Tell me when since the calendar turned to 2019 that that has been the case. Have you seriously been watching games since December?
With that said, I do believe Mcconnell is better suited for the 2/3 but to say pikiell couldn't/wouldn't trot caleb out there to give geo a blow since december is blasphemy and dumb
I could see RU being picked 12th depending on how the rest of the season plays out...even 11th. Nw, nebby, PSU all in our vicinity. I dont see any change of higher than 11th though and I could see the case where some may pick us last
I have. What happened the 1st few possessions in the Illinois game?
Baker's minutes
Nebraska 38
Penn State 36
Indiana 34
OSU 36
I know Pikiell wants to get Baker rest. i hope the illinois game can help Pikiell and Caleb's confidence. All year up to including our last game the Head Coach does not have confidence in Caleb as the sole primary ball handler.
I look at Kiss as a reasonable bridge player.He will play if his shooting becomes what it was purported to be.It has not yet.
Caleb has made amazing progress ,with a lot of potential.He has improved dramatically ,& has size & a skillset that will prove a nightmare for others.Judging by initial games of a true frosh(not Zion) is not reasonable.
BIG talking heads are raving about our underclassmen & for good reason.Illinois was only one game,but they showed potential brillance.We are deep & the future is bright.
Next year should be exciting.
Using kgc post and guessing
1. Michigan
2. Michigan state
3. Iowa
4. Minnesota
5. Ohio State
6. Wisconsin
7. Maryland
8. Maryland (lose both bigs)
9. Illinois
then it gets interesting
you are right 10-14 are up for grabs
my gut says
10. Indiana
11. Northwestern
12. PSU
13. Rutgers
14. Nebraska (Roby?)
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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caleb has a couple bad possession to start the game and then took over. My question is, could peter kiss have done what caleb done that game? I'll answer it for you, no
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
I'll bite because I think you're soooo off here. In what world are PSU, Indiana and Northwestern a better team than us next year? Why is Illinois better than us? In fact there's really only 3 teams I can say without a shadow of a doubt I expect to better than us next year and that is Michigan, MSU and Iowa. I think we ultimately finish somewhere in the 6th-8th range and are a legit bubble team
We should finally have legitimate competition for minutes next year at guard - with the only default minutes coming in the post.
The only player I'm sure will get 25+ minutes next year is Baker. I'm also reasonably confident that Harper, Thiam, and Kiss will be fighting for minutes at the 3 and not the 2.
That means there are <55 minutes available for Mathis, McConnell, Young, and Mulcahy at the two guard spots. Two of those guys will surely rise to the top and get 20+ minutes, while the other two scrap over the remaining <15.
On the wing, my expectation is that Harper will get the majority of minutes. Kiss and Thiam will look to back him up - but there will also likely be splash over minutes here from Mathis (6-4), McConnell (6-6), and Mulcahy (6-6), too.
Someone's going to be left out of this puzzle, and possibly two somebodies - and it's going to be a battle for all of them to get and stay on the floor.
In the post, the PF minutes are Omoruyi's for as long as he can stay on the court. Whatever is left will be Carter by default, and some splash over from Harper. At center, the minutes will be Johnson's for as long as he can stay on the court.... with Carter/Doucoure getting any leftover minutes by default (and possibly even Nathan if we run into foul trouble).
The only player I'm sure will get 25+ minutes next year is Baker. I'm also reasonably confident that Harper, Thiam, and Kiss will be fighting for minutes at the 3 and not the 2.
That means there are <55 minutes available for Mathis, McConnell, Young, and Mulcahy at the two guard spots. Two of those guys will surely rise to the top and get 20+ minutes, while the other two scrap over the remaining <15.
On the wing, my expectation is that Harper will get the majority of minutes. Kiss and Thiam will look to back him up - but there will also likely be splash over minutes here from Mathis (6-4), McConnell (6-6), and Mulcahy (6-6), too.
Someone's going to be left out of this puzzle, and possibly two somebodies - and it's going to be a battle for all of them to get and stay on the floor.
In the post, the PF minutes are Omoruyi's for as long as he can stay on the court. Whatever is left will be Carter by default, and some splash over from Harper. At center, the minutes will be Johnson's for as long as he can stay on the court.... with Carter/Doucoure getting any leftover minutes by default (and possibly even Nathan if we run into foul trouble).
Peter Kiss did do it as a true freshman against Seton Hall and Gonzaga. Hard to imagine.
PSU and RU both played Michigan at home in the past week. We were 10 point underdogs and PSU were 6 point underdogs. So right now PSU is viewed better than us. Neither team loses much next year. I am going to guess PSU recruiting class at worse will be equal ours.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
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I watched both full game tapes, I suggest doing the same. That's why I never bought into the Kiss hype
this is all wishful thinking...do you realize how hard it is to move in the league even with talent....prime example is Penn State. Illinois is as young as us with higher rated talent, they already knocked off MSU and look at the closeness of some of their other games. PSU beat Michigan and also beat Va Tech. Young talent there as well. Rutgers best win? Ohio State at home.
I will give you fading Nebby and middling Northwestern as teams RU should be above...but other than that you can sit here and say RU will be better than Indiana..lets see how that plays out this year. There are few instances were teams took leaps from 6-14 in league to 12-8. Iowa is going to do it this year. More often its a tough long slog. I get it, We do have young talent, but you are looking at things in a vacuum, the whole league is full of young talent and many teams losing talent just reload.
this team needs a helluva lot improvement in all facets to be a bubble team next year.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
I think I view this differently minutes wise. The way I see it is that between the 1-4 we will have 7 guys eating up 160 minutes between geo, mulcahy, young, montez, caleb, harper and eugene. I think we'll see some small lineups where harper plays the 4 and eugene plays the 5, kind of how we ended the illinois game.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
I don't see why we can't do something similar to what Iowa did. They were 14-19 (4-14) last year. All they did was get older and add one really good freshman. We're going to do the same except get older and add one good PG (not as good as weiskamp obviously) and add one really solid 4th year player in jacob young. Maybe it's just 27 years of no tourney taking a toll on people but I really think next year this is a legit bubble team. Someone said it earlier but this has like an 04-05 football feel to it
Iowa could shoot the ball at a high level last year. It's easier to coach up defense and rebounding than shooting.
