I know Hawk is very high on him and so he deserved his own thread0. But what is his role next year? Is he our starting two guard? Sixth man? Is he an 18 ppg guy?
Jacob Young
- Thread starter RUSCFORMERLYRULOU
- Start date
By having high and Paul M next year it will allow a lot more points to flow to the other guys. Jacob by what i know is atenacious defender and a volume scorer.
Next year will be fun, especially if the young bucks progress the way they are.
Can see Jacob having 15 ppg with great D and some streaky scoring performances.
Next year will be fun, especially if the young bucks progress the way they are.
Can see Jacob having 15 ppg with great D and some streaky scoring performances.
Almost no one in the Big Ten is an 18/ppg guy.and with Geo, Eugene and Harper, he is definitely not an 18/ppg guy. Corey was only even that guy for short stretches. Quincy Douby is likely the last guy at Rutgers that averaged that much
I wouldn’t mind him being the 12ppg, 3 assists, 2 steals, 2 rebounds, 75% ft, and defensive glove guy.
GO RU
GO RU
Let's set the right expectations so we don't get sidetracked like we did with Mulcahy expectations.
Young is quicker than any of our current players....explosive leaper but not Corey Sanders-esque. Streaky shooter with 3 point range and intermediate game.
Doesn't mean he will be all B1G 2nd or 3rd team, but should be better than he was at Texaa, because he has a full array of ways to score on a team that can use easy baskets.
For many RU fans watching games the last 3 to 4 days of tourneys, once teams figure out what you're doing offensively, there are no more secrets....it comes down to can your offensive player score 1 on 1 against an equal athlete.
..Villanova vs SHU will be isolating Phil Booth vs SHU and Myles Powell vs whomever Nova throws at him.
I've watched more games where teams are just trying to limit turnovers by just isolating their best player and asking him to score, get fouled or find an open player.
RU tried to run a complete offense for most of Pike's 1st year, eventually stopped it because a lack of skill players and reduced things to isolating Sanders and sometimes Nigel Johnson on high screen and limit turnovers. Same thing last year with Corey....it frustrated fans thinking we didn't run any real offense, but it's better than a turnover...maybe you miss a shot, but crash the offensive glass.
Young will give RU a 2nd option with Baker to prevent the shaded double teams that aren't true doubles. And he's got a solid FT stroke.
The last item is Young plays with ultra confidence or swagger.....we didn't have that player to play with that confidence consistently. Sanders, even as a poor shooter from distance or attacking the basket, felt like he could make every shot. Baker runs hot and cold, as he wore down, his confidence bounced around a bit.
Young doesn't lack for confidence....neither does Harper or Caleb....Montez is more channeled but when he adds to his offensice game, he'll be more confident. Young is like Corey, he thinks every shot is going in. RU fans may not like his shot selection, but in crunch time, I see him being looked to as the shot maker, along with Harper and Baker.
Mulcahy actually plays with that swagger, so managing his minutes and putting him in spots to be successful early, will probably make sense paired with Young in the backcourt.
Young is quicker than any of our current players....explosive leaper but not Corey Sanders-esque. Streaky shooter with 3 point range and intermediate game.
Doesn't mean he will be all B1G 2nd or 3rd team, but should be better than he was at Texaa, because he has a full array of ways to score on a team that can use easy baskets.
For many RU fans watching games the last 3 to 4 days of tourneys, once teams figure out what you're doing offensively, there are no more secrets....it comes down to can your offensive player score 1 on 1 against an equal athlete.
..Villanova vs SHU will be isolating Phil Booth vs SHU and Myles Powell vs whomever Nova throws at him.
I've watched more games where teams are just trying to limit turnovers by just isolating their best player and asking him to score, get fouled or find an open player.
RU tried to run a complete offense for most of Pike's 1st year, eventually stopped it because a lack of skill players and reduced things to isolating Sanders and sometimes Nigel Johnson on high screen and limit turnovers. Same thing last year with Corey....it frustrated fans thinking we didn't run any real offense, but it's better than a turnover...maybe you miss a shot, but crash the offensive glass.
Young will give RU a 2nd option with Baker to prevent the shaded double teams that aren't true doubles. And he's got a solid FT stroke.
The last item is Young plays with ultra confidence or swagger.....we didn't have that player to play with that confidence consistently. Sanders, even as a poor shooter from distance or attacking the basket, felt like he could make every shot. Baker runs hot and cold, as he wore down, his confidence bounced around a bit.
Young doesn't lack for confidence....neither does Harper or Caleb....Montez is more channeled but when he adds to his offensice game, he'll be more confident. Young is like Corey, he thinks every shot is going in. RU fans may not like his shot selection, but in crunch time, I see him being looked to as the shot maker, along with Harper and Baker.
Mulcahy actually plays with that swagger, so managing his minutes and putting him in spots to be successful early, will probably make sense paired with Young in the backcourt.
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Looking back at him a bit, as a profile:
- Came out of Yates HS in Houston TX.
- He's 6-2, 190 lbs.
- Was considered a 4-star prospect in the 2016 class. His 247 site has him as a point guard, #23 at his position and #106 nationally. His Rivals recruiting site shows him as a shooting guard, unranked at that position and #106 nationally.
- Per the TX fan sites, he was expected to be a PG, and was apparently recruited by TX over Carsen Edwards
- From what I understand (and from his stats), he looked to be used more as a shooting guard that didn't penetrate much to the hoop to draw fouls.
- His first year, he mostly came off the bench for 3.7 ppg in 16.4 min. In 544 minutes, he attempted 110 threes (.227) and just 14 FTs (.786). He started 5 games in the middle of the season, but didn't perform well in that role. His line in those 5 starts was: 19.6 min, 2.6 pts (0-7 2P, 3-15 3P), 1.4 rb, 0.2 ast, 1.2 tov..
- His second year, he also mostly came off the bench for 6.2 ppg in 16.8 min. In 503 min, he attempted 93 threes (.323) and just 22 FTs (.682). He again started 5 games in the middle of the season. His line in those 5 starts was: 18.2 min, 5.4 pts (6-17 2P, 3-18 3P), 2.8 rbs, 1.0 ast, 1.0 tov.
- At the end of his second year, he had a career game in a loss vs. Texas Tech in the B12 tournament, that got fans excited for what he might become as a junior. In 32 min off the bench, he scored 29 pts (5-10 2P, 6-7 3P), 2 rb, 2 ast, 1 stl, 0 tov.
He's apparently a very quick player, who should be strong defensively on quicker guards.
My own thoughts:
- He's a quick, athletic guard, and should help us defensively when we play teams with quick penetrating guards
- He seems to be a really good teammate on the bench this season.
- He hasn't really shown an ability at the college level to get into the paint and draw fouls, or to penetrate and create assists for teammates. His FT numbers are very low, as are his assist numbers. When adjusted for minutes, he'd be at the bottom of our current roster in both areas - so expecting him to suddenly be "the guy" as a penetrating, get-to-the-rim, dishing point guard is not really in line with his prior college performance
- No idea what his true FT percentage is, because it's a tiny sample size. Over two years, he's shot just 36 FTs at a .722 rate... by comparison, every player on Rutgers but Thiam shot at least 31 FTs in this season alone.
- He's also not really a sharpshooter, over a decent sample size. By comparison, Kiss is a career 65/226 (.288) from range while Young is a career 55/203 (.271). It's possible this has been an area of focus in the off-season, and he did improve from .227 as a freshman to .338 as a sophomore... but expecting better than .350 consistently is probably not realistic.
- He's a solid depth piece at guard, and may reduce some of the pressure on Baker to run the point and let him play off the ball.... but so will Mulcahy. Young will likely be ahead of Mulcahy to start the season, but that will be an interesting battle to watch as the season progresses.
- Came out of Yates HS in Houston TX.
- He's 6-2, 190 lbs.
- Was considered a 4-star prospect in the 2016 class. His 247 site has him as a point guard, #23 at his position and #106 nationally. His Rivals recruiting site shows him as a shooting guard, unranked at that position and #106 nationally.
- Per the TX fan sites, he was expected to be a PG, and was apparently recruited by TX over Carsen Edwards
- From what I understand (and from his stats), he looked to be used more as a shooting guard that didn't penetrate much to the hoop to draw fouls.
- His first year, he mostly came off the bench for 3.7 ppg in 16.4 min. In 544 minutes, he attempted 110 threes (.227) and just 14 FTs (.786). He started 5 games in the middle of the season, but didn't perform well in that role. His line in those 5 starts was: 19.6 min, 2.6 pts (0-7 2P, 3-15 3P), 1.4 rb, 0.2 ast, 1.2 tov..
- His second year, he also mostly came off the bench for 6.2 ppg in 16.8 min. In 503 min, he attempted 93 threes (.323) and just 22 FTs (.682). He again started 5 games in the middle of the season. His line in those 5 starts was: 18.2 min, 5.4 pts (6-17 2P, 3-18 3P), 2.8 rbs, 1.0 ast, 1.0 tov.
- At the end of his second year, he had a career game in a loss vs. Texas Tech in the B12 tournament, that got fans excited for what he might become as a junior. In 32 min off the bench, he scored 29 pts (5-10 2P, 6-7 3P), 2 rb, 2 ast, 1 stl, 0 tov.
He's apparently a very quick player, who should be strong defensively on quicker guards.
My own thoughts:
- He's a quick, athletic guard, and should help us defensively when we play teams with quick penetrating guards
- He seems to be a really good teammate on the bench this season.
- He hasn't really shown an ability at the college level to get into the paint and draw fouls, or to penetrate and create assists for teammates. His FT numbers are very low, as are his assist numbers. When adjusted for minutes, he'd be at the bottom of our current roster in both areas - so expecting him to suddenly be "the guy" as a penetrating, get-to-the-rim, dishing point guard is not really in line with his prior college performance
- No idea what his true FT percentage is, because it's a tiny sample size. Over two years, he's shot just 36 FTs at a .722 rate... by comparison, every player on Rutgers but Thiam shot at least 31 FTs in this season alone.
- He's also not really a sharpshooter, over a decent sample size. By comparison, Kiss is a career 65/226 (.288) from range while Young is a career 55/203 (.271). It's possible this has been an area of focus in the off-season, and he did improve from .227 as a freshman to .338 as a sophomore... but expecting better than .350 consistently is probably not realistic.
- He's a solid depth piece at guard, and may reduce some of the pressure on Baker to run the point and let him play off the ball.... but so will Mulcahy. Young will likely be ahead of Mulcahy to start the season, but that will be an interesting battle to watch as the season progresses.
He’s bringing the ball up to start the year.
Best case scenario: The change in coaching style and offensive philosophy, coupled with a year of practice with the team and putting up shots, couple further still with use as a PG instead of as a SG, allow Young to be a different player than he was at Texas. He adapts his approach to focus more on penetration and passing than on jumpshots, and he plays enough minutes at PG to give Baker time to play off the ball and get up more shots. He also allows Mulcahy more time to develop within the system without pressure being placed on him immediately to perform.
Worst case scenario: The rust shows, and he struggles to adapt to the PG mold. He puts up too many shots from the arc and midrange, doesn't get to the line enough, and his assist-to-turnover ratio stays around 1.0. His three point shot is still streaky, but he still shoots without conscience - making him a shorter/speedier version of Kiss that's a better defender.
I have a feeling reality will fall somewhere between those two points.
Worst case scenario: The rust shows, and he struggles to adapt to the PG mold. He puts up too many shots from the arc and midrange, doesn't get to the line enough, and his assist-to-turnover ratio stays around 1.0. His three point shot is still streaky, but he still shoots without conscience - making him a shorter/speedier version of Kiss that's a better defender.
I have a feeling reality will fall somewhere between those two points.
So in other words...we have no idea. I am hoping for a Duncan/Hughes/Steve Worthy type in terms of impact.
The difference is he’s not transferring from a power conference to the A10. He’s coming into what may be the best conference in the country.
He appears to be more a scorer than creator for others. I guess Carson Edwards would be the prototype. We haven’t had much success at RU with that type - Damon Santiago was decent and had a good sr yr. Corey Chandler, Sanders. Seems like a major difference from Mulcahy so it will be interesting how it develops.
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anon_0k9zlfz6lz9oy
Guest
I went back and watched about 8 full texas games of his from last year and heres my analysis.
- he will be our best on ball defender therefore we’ll probably see him more minutes than anyone on the roster for that reason alone. Wait til u guys see him on defense, absolute menace.
- if any of you remember seton hall’s paul gause, jacob young is basically a clone with his game imo. Everything even down to being a lefty, it’s scary how similar they are.
- he camped out in the corner at texas alot but when he got the chance to get running in transition he did and hes very quick. Personally i dont see him cooking guys off the ball in half court sets though. He does struggle a little bit to finish at the rim with defenders nearby. With him i expect us to run more than usual.
- he is NOT trigger shy one bit. If he catches and his feet are set from 3, he’s letting it fly. He will extend defenses.
All in all he will make our team better. Hes a lock for being a captain as well. He was the most vocal player we had this season
- he will be our best on ball defender therefore we’ll probably see him more minutes than anyone on the roster for that reason alone. Wait til u guys see him on defense, absolute menace.
- if any of you remember seton hall’s paul gause, jacob young is basically a clone with his game imo. Everything even down to being a lefty, it’s scary how similar they are.
- he camped out in the corner at texas alot but when he got the chance to get running in transition he did and hes very quick. Personally i dont see him cooking guys off the ball in half court sets though. He does struggle a little bit to finish at the rim with defenders nearby. With him i expect us to run more than usual.
- he is NOT trigger shy one bit. If he catches and his feet are set from 3, he’s letting it fly. He will extend defenses.
All in all he will make our team better. Hes a lock for being a captain as well. He was the most vocal player we had this season
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ill wait until Young plays a few games before declaring anything from him. Our fans have not learn their lesson to wait until a player shows it on the court
This is where people need to calm down a bit. 15 ppg? Do you know how many B1G players averaged 15 a game this year? 10. That’s it.
He might make a big impact but expecting 15 a game is wildly unrealistic.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...coring-per-game/sort/avgPoints/year/2019/id/7
Every report I've heard (from knowledgeable people who attend practices) is that he's going to be our best defender, given his quickness and tenacity, and will score, but is streaky. He'll play at least 20 minutes a game and will make us better. Now if we can just get this Yeboah kid as a grad transfer forward and another big man, who can contribute (still not sold on Doucoure or Carter), we'll be a tough out next year.
So you're telling fans on a message board not to make predictions about players? That's exactly what message boards are for... you realize that right?
While I get your point, he's not wrong if you look back at the narrative for any of our freshmen on this message board this last year
Yes, but freshmen are much harder to project than a kid who played quality minutes at Texas.
It's the exact opposite actually. People weren't expecting freshman to come in and play. People wanted Harper to redshirt. All 3 true freshman came in and contributed big time. Mathis and Harper started and Caleb played a lot of minutes off the bench. Now it's Deja Vu with Mulcahy. People who think he's not coming in and contributing big minutes are going to look foolish. It's basketball not football. Freshman can and do play alllll the time.
As for Young he brings a clear skill set that was lacking on this year's team with quickness and perimeter PG defense as well as the ability to score.
See: Johnson, Nigel and Judge, Wally
Not getting too hyped up over Young until I see it on this team. Translating the Texas minutes to here doesn't show me much - he has to be a lot better than what he showed on the Longhorns.
18 ppg hahaha slow down. 10 ppg with solid defense would be a huge success.
While I understand your point, you can't deny that morons were not only calling for Ron Harper Jr. to redshirt, they were also calling for an injured Caleb McConnell to transfer early in the year. I didn't make this $hit up.
Two sides of the argument. We have had guys sitting out or arriving that have not lived up to their hype and Wally Judge comes to mind. On the other hand, we do not have presently an on ball defender that could stay with Winston and Simpson, 2 of the best point guards in the conference if not the country, but Jacob Young seems to possess that skill set. That has to make us better defensively. However, he can also hit the three plus he was a legitimate 4 star that comes from a pedigree College and pro basketball family, both father and brother. So his hype is well deserved. As much as we all love Geo , you must admit that he had a sub par season from what we were expecting and for what Coach was expecting from him. We were not far from 19-12 and 10-10 in the conference. At least 3-4 games Geo disappeared for halves or sometimes all game. Young gives you that extra player that can let Geo rest more and move over to the 2 and hopefully has a monster junior year. Paul is going to take the point by mid season and make both Geo and Jacob and Caleb better. All three should be practicing shooting threes from kick outs that will come in bunches and will increase our offensive production to get us over the top. Very exciting about Jacob as well as Paul’s arrival as the first pass first point guard we have had in a long time.
He can?
He's a career .271 from the arc, and has made more than 1 three in a game just 12 times out of 63 games (more than 2 just 4 times).
We heard this about Kiss, too, that he was going to light it up from outside... but he was streaky at Q, and he's been streaky at RU, too.
I'm not expecting Young to be a consistent three point threat out of the box. He'd have to have significantly improved his shot during his redshirt year.
Would you rather have me say...Our fans are almost always wrong in projecting players stats
Watching more than one practice, there's no doubt Young is a player.
What's baffling about RU fans complaining about transfers into, is poor basketball awareness. I don't think anyone got anything wrong on what to expect from Judge or Kiss. Both players were miles better than what was in front of them on the roster.
I think some fans only believe a lottery pick NBA player is meeting expectations.
RU had every incoming player exceed expectations this year. What ultimately happens is competition we have on the roster made others improve from November to March and our opponents do a great job scouting what players do well and what they dont.
It's also not a good idea to look at statistics and shooting percentages as a guide on how effective a player is or isn't. I am not sure where people were expecting Kiss to be, but how anyone thought he'd be more effective than Mathis, McConnell or Harper was silly.
The other item keeps getting mentioned was Harper redshirting....that came up during the discussion of RU landing a grad transfer at SF or somehow landing a Aundre Hyatt in the summer, before he went to LSU....and before fans knew for certain that he was not able to play this year.
The false expectations were placed on the returning players somehow making a jump up in production because they were going to be upperclassmen like Thiam....or Eugene.....one player made the jump up in production and one didn't.
Anyone who saw 13 to 14PPG from Eugene coming, would not be honest; there is a safer expectation on Young, being in the system for a year, playing at a school with better pkayers at every position at Texas in comparison to RU.
He's going to play well here....but if he's not 1st team all B1G, it will be deemed a disappointment for RU fans, i guess.
What's baffling about RU fans complaining about transfers into, is poor basketball awareness. I don't think anyone got anything wrong on what to expect from Judge or Kiss. Both players were miles better than what was in front of them on the roster.
I think some fans only believe a lottery pick NBA player is meeting expectations.
RU had every incoming player exceed expectations this year. What ultimately happens is competition we have on the roster made others improve from November to March and our opponents do a great job scouting what players do well and what they dont.
It's also not a good idea to look at statistics and shooting percentages as a guide on how effective a player is or isn't. I am not sure where people were expecting Kiss to be, but how anyone thought he'd be more effective than Mathis, McConnell or Harper was silly.
The other item keeps getting mentioned was Harper redshirting....that came up during the discussion of RU landing a grad transfer at SF or somehow landing a Aundre Hyatt in the summer, before he went to LSU....and before fans knew for certain that he was not able to play this year.
The false expectations were placed on the returning players somehow making a jump up in production because they were going to be upperclassmen like Thiam....or Eugene.....one player made the jump up in production and one didn't.
Anyone who saw 13 to 14PPG from Eugene coming, would not be honest; there is a safer expectation on Young, being in the system for a year, playing at a school with better pkayers at every position at Texas in comparison to RU.
He's going to play well here....but if he's not 1st team all B1G, it will be deemed a disappointment for RU fans, i guess.
On the whole, I think most people had fairly reasonable expectations of Kiss and Judge. But there were those who expected them to come in and be instant offense and program-changing players, and that was really never in the cards for either. Some people last year were expecting Kiss to be this three point sharpshooter who'd get 25 min per game, immediately translating his 13.3pt/5.8rb performance at Q to the B1G after a year under Pike... and it just wasn't realistic. Some thought Judge was going to come in and dominate as a double-double machine, and that also wasn't realistic.
Throw Nigel Johnson in there, too.... "best point guard" EJ had ever seen, from someone who had coached Kobe. Expectations were through the roof that he was going to be better than Corey Sanders... and that just wasn't realistic.
I think some folks need to temper expectations.
Which is a similar expectation, in some ways, to Young suddenly getting a jump in production because he's going to be an upperclassman coming off a redshirt year. We've got 2 years of production to look at - expecting a huge jump from there isn't necessarily realistic. He's not suddenly going to become a 14 ppg, 40% three point shooter who penetrates to the rim and feasts at the FT line, and who also gets 4 assists to 2 turnovers a game - or at least, there's no evidence to support expectations close to that.
My thought here is that if he was at a school with better players at every position at Texas compared to RU, and he still didn't really see any assists there, why are some expecting him to step in immediately as the starting point guard and see a ton of assists here?
Completely agree with this last point. I do think he's going to play well here, and that he's going to be a valuable piece of the puzzle for us. From everything I've heard, he'll be a plus defender, and be able to bring the ball up court against pressure - which are both areas of need. I don't expect him to suddenly be a 25+ minute starter on day one, or that he's going to be this great distributing PG, or that he's going to spend a ton of time at the FT line after penetrating into the lane.
I expect him to be solid guard depth, give us 15+ minutes and tough defense, and take his shots where he can get them in the offense. If he exceeds those expectations, that'd be awesome. I'm trying to set a reasonable expectation bar, though - people who seem to feel like he's an immediate upgrade over everyone on our roster and is going to be some sort of savior at point guard are setting themselves up for disappointment, imo.
Timeout here. Kiss was a transfer. He was to sit out and give us a ZERO for a roster spot for a year. The reason you take a transfer over a freshman because the ZERO for 1 year is worth it over the next 3. You don't take transfers to sit out a year and then be behind 3 freshman on the depth chart.
Kiss, so far, is a major disappointment. I am a HUGE Pike fan, however the Kiss miss, so far, is a major warning and HAS to temper any enthusiasm for Young.
I don't even see Kiss as a "miss" - at the time we took his commitment, the roster looked very different than it does now, and he was there to plug in at a position of need. With everyone assuming that Sanders was going pro, the backcourt at the time that Kiss committed was just Baker, Kiss, and Mensah.
There were plenty of players on the recruiting line at that point, including McClung, Mathis, Harper, Strickland, and some Jucos.... but none had committed yet when Kiss did. Then he got recruited over.
The "miss" came in fans expecting him to immediately light it up and outperform the freshmen that committed many months after him (Mathis, Harper, McConnell).
Young also committed to RU two months before Mulcahy did, giving us two more guys who could spend time at the point before we had any idea how Baker/McConnell would do during the season.
you are sugar coating.
Let's be REAL HONEST with ourselves. REAL HONEST! Our freshman were good, but not that good. The fact that Kiss as a 3rd year player couldn't outperform 2 out of 3 of them is an issue.
Look at his raw numbers. Give him your eyeball test.
Let's be REAL HONEST with ourselves. REAL HONEST! Our freshman were good, but not that good. The fact that Kiss as a 3rd year player couldn't outperform 2 out of 3 of them is an issue.
Look at his raw numbers. Give him your eyeball test.
kiss was not the same after he hurt his shoulder
I don’t know what “that good”means. Each of them showed great improvement from the beginning of the year to the end. Even Mathis, who tailed off at the end, showed much improvement when he played within himself.
With nine months to practice instead of the summer, it is not unreasonable that all of their games will improve markedly. I would not
be surprised if Johnson and Harper were at least second team all Big Ten by their senior years.
With nine months to practice instead of the summer, it is not unreasonable that all of their games will improve markedly. I would not
be surprised if Johnson and Harper were at least second team all Big Ten by their senior years.
I hadn't heard anything about an injury, but that could shed some light on his droppoff.
Pike trusted Kiss to be the Day 1 starter at SG, as the freshmen weren't yet ready. He started 11 of the first 13 games of the season.
Over his first 10 games, he was averaging 27.6 min, 9.4 pts (.366 3P%), 3.0 rbs.... which wasn't great, but wasn't terrible. But over the next 20 games, he averaged just 13.7 min, 3.9 pts (.250 3P%), 1.9 rbs.
Part of that was definitely competition level, but not all of it. Against the better competition in those early 10 games (MSU, @Wisc, @SHU, SJU, @Miami), he averaged 28.8 min, 11.2 pts (.323 3P%), 2.4 rb.... then against much weaker Columbia and Maine in games 11 & 12, he averaged just 17 min, 3.5 pts (1/7 from range), 3 rb.
If he was injured between SHU and Columbia, that might explain some things.
If you're not going to pull in 4/5 star HS recruits, getting them as transfers is the next best thing.
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