James Franklin deleted tweet

[Turtle31]

Add in the fact that you guys went a combined 2-24 in conference games this year in the two money sports (Football, MBB) I'd say Rutgers has absolutely zero room to talk.

You're absolutely right. Some posters drown their sorrows in a 20 yr Scotch, others take solace in firing shots at Happy Valley. That's what you should mainly expect here, unfortunately.
What kind of team will we have this season? Reality won't live up to expectations, IMO, mainly b/c those expectations are running high with an amped up fan base right now. However, we will be better coached, more exciting to watch, and hopefully will be more competitive in conference.

 

[MADHAT1]

So I understand the whole getting side jabs in and all that and that's cool.

 

[MADHAT1]

PSUguy410 said: ↑
Add in the fact that you guys went a combined 2-24 in conference games this year in the two money sports (Football, MBB) I'd say Rutgers has absolutely zero room to talk.

You're absolutely right. Some posters drown their sorrows in a 20 yr Scotch, others take solace in firing shots at Happy Valley. That's what you should mainly expect here, unfortunately.
What kind of team will we have this season? Reality won't live up to expectations, IMO, mainly b/c those expectations are running high with an amped up fan base right now. However, we will be better coached, more exciting to watch, and hopefully will be more competitive in conference.

Despite your be my friend reply, every RU FB fan has the right to talk smack about the Nit's cry baby HC.

But like the way you left out the whines wrong number put in his message and only included the putdown.
Reality might exceed expectations as far as I'm concerned and do better than you seem to think.
I know of a poster here that celebrates RU victories with some damm good scotch .
I'm sure you will find RU fans everywhere cheering success more than drowning sorrows.

RU fans are tough enough not to have to drown their sorrows or deny the truth like some not so happy valley BWI posters do on this board and constantly whining about what RU fans say about Penn St and it's underachieving wimpy HC.

 

[Turtle31]

I only included the put down portion Mad, b/c that was the part I was replying to, and gave my opinion. I don't care what other posters write. I don't police anyone on this board or the WBB board.
Bash away, all you like.

 

[kjb32812]

@MADHAT1 How exactly has Franklin underachieved? I'm as harsh a critic as there is but I'd like to hear your thoughts. I'll respond after you.

BTW, Ash has a tough job in front of him because your last HC convinced 1/2 your fanbase that talent didn't matter.

 

[MADHAT1]

@MADHAT1 How exactly has Franklin underachieved? I'm as harsh a critic as there is but I'd like to hear your thoughts. I'll respond after you.

BTW, Ash has a tough job in front of him because your last HC convinced 1/2 your fanbase that talent didn't matter.

Never improved on BOB's record. Even with the sanctions, Franklin's teams wern't preforming like they should.
O'Brien saved Penn St football and it was a fairly good team under him.
Franklin brought in good players besides what BOB left and didn't utilize them like a good HC would. I know Penn St had to overcome sanctions, but their recruiting wasn't as bad as sanctions like they received would make most programs look like .
That's why I say he underachieved.

 

[kjb32812]

Never improved on BOB's record. Even with the sanctions, Franklin's teams wern't preforming like they should.
O'Brien saved Penn St football and it was a fairly good team under him.
Franklin brought in good players besides what BOB left and didn't utilize them like a good HC would. I know Penn St had to overcome sanctions, but their recruiting wasn't as bad as sanctions like they received would make most programs look like .
That's why I say he underachieved.

Fair enough. Here's my perspective:

• What Bill O'Brien did that James Franklin has not is beat a team he shouldn't have. Both times it was Wisky. With that said, I could point to several games that he had no business losing that he did. I was at Virginia and it was pathetic. I could also argue that Ohio University was beatable if he wouldn't have put a LB in to return kicks and had a DC who could stop a RB coming out of the backfield to catch passes. Lot of adrenaline dump in that as well. Minnesota was their for the taking as well. I don't agree with most about the Indiana game.
• Bill O'Brien did not save Penn State football and no one will ever convince me of that. Michael Mauti and Michael Zordich saved Penn State football. Ironically, so did the big four of that class (Hackenberg, Breneman, Mahon and Sickels).
• O'Brien's teams were fairly good because they were stacked with talent, especially on defense. That OL was also above average and deep. What O'Brien did with McGloin was remarkable. The WRs (as a squad) were the worst I've ever seen and he did a great job of using the TEs to compensate. RB was a nightmare.
• Paterno whiffed on his last OL class and O'Brien elected to recruit skill players on scholarship and take his chances at OL. You've seen the impact of that over the past two seasons.
• O'Brien is responsible for promoting Butler to DC and that was a complete nightmare.

After his first season, I would have completely agreed with you as Franklin lost to two teams he had no business losing to - ILL and MD. After last year, I think the only debatable loss is Temple. Personally, I think they were the better team. That being said, he could have overcome that when he had them on the ropes by continuing to run the ball. Maybe that was a bad loss, maybe not.

This season will be interesting and will probably help me decide conclusively where I stand on Franklin.

 

[MADHAT1]

Fair enough. Here's my perspective:

• What Bill O'Brien did that James Franklin has not is beat a team he shouldn't have. Both times it was Wisky. With that said, I could point to several games that he had no business losing that he did. I was at Virginia and it was pathetic. I could also argue that Ohio University was beatable if he wouldn't have put a LB in to return kicks and had a DC who could stop a RB coming out of the backfield to catch passes. Lot of adrenaline dump in that as well. Minnesota was their for the taking as well. I don't agree with most about the Indiana game.
• Bill O'Brien did not save Penn State football and no one will ever convince me of that. Michael Mauti and Michael Zordich saved Penn State football. Ironically, so did the big four of that class (Hackenberg, Breneman, Mahon and Sickels).
• O'Brien's teams were fairly good because they were stacked with talent, especially on defense. That OL was also above average and deep. What O'Brien did with McGloin was remarkable. The WRs (as a squad) were the worst I've ever seen and he did a great job of using the TEs to compensate. RB was a nightmare.
• Paterno whiffed on his last OL class and O'Brien elected to recruit skill players on scholarship and take his chances at OL. You've seen the impact of that over the past two seasons.
• O'Brien is responsible for promoting Butler to DC and that was a complete nightmare.

After his first season, I would have completely agreed with you as Franklin lost to two teams he had no business losing to - ILL and MD. After last year, I think the only debatable loss is Temple. Personally, I think they were the better team. That being said, he could have overcome that when he had them on the ropes by continuing to run the ball. Maybe that was a bad loss, maybe not.

This season will be interesting and will probably help me decide conclusively where I stand on Franklin.

Fair evaluation and Franklin might prove me wrong, but that is for the future to decide.
As for my feeling O'Brien saved the program , I believe he instilled the us against the world attitude that made the players bond together and the recruits feel a part of it.
That made everyone on the roster and recruits want to be part of fighting for Penn St's so called war against those (including me) who wanted Nit FB to fall into irrelevancy.
When Penn St was hit with the sanctions it would have been easy for the Nits to go down the tubes unless they had something to rally around.
BOB gave them that, in my opinion.

 

[kjb32812]

Fair evaluation and Franklin might prove me wrong, but that is for the future to decide.
As for my feeling O'Brien saved the program , I believe he instilled the us against the world attitude that made the players bond together and the recruits feel a part of it.
That made everyone on the roster and recruits want to be part of fighting for Penn St's so called war against those (including me) who wanted Nit FB to fall into irrelevancy.
When Penn St was hit with the sanctions it would have been easy for the Nits to go down the tubes unless they had something to rally around.
BOB gave them that, in my opinion.

That's fair. He definitely was the right guy at the right time. You'll never convince me that his voice was greater than two legacy leaders though.

 

[GSGS]

That's fair. He definitely was the right guy at the right time. You'll never convince me that his voice was greater than two legacy leaders though.

BoB was able to convince losers like Hackenberg that playing in front of 107K cult members was more important than taking a stand against pedophilia, so he does deserve credit for saving the program. I did take great joy in watching BoB leave and Hackenberg's career descend once the great James Franklin (LOL) took over. Like many of our military, CH may never recover from the PTSD he suffered as a PSU QB the past couple of years.

If the PSU OL doesn't improve this year, McSorley will quickly become McSorely and then McInjuredly.

 

[Knight Shift]

Add in the fact that you guys went a combined 2-24 in conference games this year in the two money sports (Football, MBB) I'd say Rutgers has absolutely zero room to talk.

Says the fan of the team whose 4 conference FB wins were eaking out a win against lowly Indiana, and beating basement dwellers Illinois, Rutgers and Maryland. That's something to boat about.

 

[kjb32812]

BoB was able to convince losers like Hackenberg that playing in front of 107K cult members was more important than taking a stand against pedophilia, so he does deserve credit for saving the program. I did take great joy in watching BoB leave and Hackenberg's career descend once the great James Franklin (LOL) took over. Like many of our military, CH may never recover from the PTSD he suffered as a PSU QB the past couple of years.

If the PSU OL doesn't improve this year, McSorley will quickly become McSorely and then McInjuredly.

I took great joy in watching your QB do his best Vinny Testaverde impression in your first B1G home game. It was also quite enjoyable watching the RB who flipped from you run for 195 yards as Penn State curb stomped you in your visit to Happy Valley.

 

[GSGS]

I took great joy in watching your QB do his best Vinny Testaverde impression in your first B1G home game. It was also quite enjoyable watching the RB who flipped from you run for 195 yards as Penn State curb stomped you in your visit to Happy Valley.

You were playing against a coachless team those two years, the history begins a fresh this year. If it took two lost seasons for RU to finally land a worthy HC, it will have been worth it. Lynch, the RB who just transferred from PSU, also had a big game that day, so I don't see Barkley as making a difference. Lynch averaged 12 yards a carry, Say Say Liar Liar only 9. It was more that our D wasn't coached well enough to even know how to line up on half the plays.

Looking forward to PSU's visit this November, as for once RU will have a coaching advantage. Barkley should be pretty beat up by then, playing behind your pitiful oline.

 

[kjb32812]

You were playing against a coachless team those two years, the history begins a fresh this year. If it took two lost seasons for RU to finally land a worthy HC, it will have been worth it. Lynch, the RB who just transferred from PSU, also had a big game that day, so I don't see Barkley as making a difference. Lynch averaged 12 yards a carry, Say Say Liar Liar only 9. It was more that our D wasn't coached well enough to even know how to line up on half the plays.

Looking forward to PSU's visit this November, as for once RU will have a coaching advantage. Barkley should be pretty beat up by then, playing behind your pitiful oline.

Wishful thinking on your part IMO. Flood left the cupboard bare for Ash while Penn State arguably has the most talent on its roster since 2012 and 2013. The OL should be just fine and RB is the least of our worries. Plus, we will have Johnson and Charles added to the mix of already talented WR. I'm sure you've heard of those two.

If you knew anything about what you were talking about, you would point to our depleted DL. But alas, you've already proven you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Kbee3]

"The OL should be just fine and ........"

I agree with most of your post, but IMO the above is wishful thinking on YOUR part.

 

[GSGS]

Wishful thinking on your part IMO. Flood left the cupboard bare for Ash while Penn State arguably has the most talent on its roster since 2012 and 2013. The OL should be just fine and RB is the least of our worries. Plus, we will have Johnson and Charles added to the mix of already talented WR. I'm sure you've heard of those two.

If you knew anything about what you were talking about, you would point to our depleted DL. But alas, you've already proven you have no idea what you're talking about.

I agree that your depleted DL will join your OL in sucking, and your OL will probably render your offensive skill personnel irrelevant.

If I knew anything? - This from the guy who thinks that Angelo Mangiro is better than Donovan Smith.

 

[MADHAT1]

Wishful thinking on your part IMO. Flood left the cupboard bare for Ash while Penn State arguably has the most talent on its roster since 2012 and 2013. The OL should be just fine and RB is the least of our worries. Plus, we will have Johnson and Charles added to the mix of already talented WR. I'm sure you've heard of those two.

If you knew anything about what you were talking about, you would point to our depleted DL. But alas, you've already proven you have no idea what you're talking about.

Not sure if Flood left the cupboard bare or just looks that way.
Could be Flood's hindered the talent his players had and Ash and his staff will bring their talent out.
As for the RU QB, a change of leadership might be what the doctor ordered to cure what ails that position.

Penn St isn't the program it once was with Franklin's coaching and it could be Hack was right in
saying his not living up to expectations needs to be put on Franklin.
Don't assume PSU's QB problems will end and you might not enjoy the 11/19 game this year like you did the 9/19 game in 2015 because of two players named Hicks and Martin doing to the Nits D what Barkley did to Rossi's D,along with RU's QB using Grant like the WR threat he is.
Also RU WR Agudosi's height might might be used properly under RU's new OC 's offensive strategy.

You might be in for a long sorrowful game this season.
I don't expect much from RU this season, but expect Franklin's 2016 team will still underachieve and this isn't the woeful RU team of 2015 your Nits will be facing that allowed the Nittany Lions to look good

 

[kjb32812]

I agree with most of your post, but IMO the above is wishful thinking on YOUR part.

We shall see.

 

[kjb32812]

Not sure if Flood left the cupboard bare or just looks that way.
Could be Flood's hindered the talent his players had and Ash and his staff will bring their talent out.
As for the RU QB, a change of leadership might be what the doctor ordered to cure what ails that position.

Penn St isn't the program it once was with Franklin's coaching and it could be Hack was right in
saying his not living up to expectations needs to be put on Franklin.
Don't assume PSU's QB problems will end and you might not enjoy the 11/19 game this year like you did the 9/19 game in 2015 because of two players named Hicks and Martin doing to the Nits D what Barkley did to Rossi's D,along with RU's QB using Grant like the WR threat he is.
Also RU WR Agudosi's height might might be used properly under RU's new OC 's offensive strategy.

You might be in for a long sorrowful game this season.
I don't expect much from RU this season, but expect Franklin's 2016 team will still underachieve and this isn't the woeful RU team of 2015 your Nits will be facing that allowed the Nittany Lions to look good

Personally, I think Hack came off as whiny but that's just me. If you've ever interviewed people before, the last thing you want to hear someone say is that their boss was the root of all their problems. As I said before, Franklin wasn't the guy who couldn't complete 50% of his ten yard passes while not under any pressure.

Despite our DL being somewhat depleted, our LBs could be very, very good. They weren't last year. In addition, RU's OL isn't putting the fear of God into anyone.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

 

[kjb32812]

I agree that your depleted DL will join your OL in sucking, and your OL will probably render your offensive skill personnel irrelevant.

If I knew anything? - This from the guy who thinks that Angelo Mangiro is better than Donovan Smith.

Did I say that? haha - very well could have since Smith wasn't very good his final season at PSU.

I'm not nearly as concerned about our OL this year. I think Moorhead is really going to help.

 

[yesrutgers01]

Wishful thinking on your part IMO. Flood left the cupboard bare for Ash while Penn State arguably has the most talent on its roster since 2012 and 2013. The OL should be just fine and RB is the least of our worries. Plus, we will have Johnson and Charles added to the mix of already talented WR. I'm sure you've heard of those two.

If you knew anything about what you were talking about, you would point to our depleted DL. But alas, you've already proven you have no idea what you're talking about.

So, with all this great talent amassed by Franklin, will he finally have an impressive year? Let's face it, over the past two years, he has had more talent then us and he really hasn't been all that impressive.

 

[MADHAT1]

Personally, I think Hack came off as whiny but that's just me. If you've ever interviewed people before, the last thing you want to hear someone say is that their boss was the root of all their problems. As I said before, Franklin wasn't the guy who couldn't complete 50% of his ten yard passes while not under any pressure.

Despite our DL being somewhat depleted, our LBs could be very, very good. They weren't last year. In addition, RU's OL isn't putting the fear of God into anyone.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Well Hack has supposedly hurt his draft status blaming his problems on Franklin, but I read one ( possibly more) article by a so called expert say Hack hurt himself by telling the truth.
It's just that the NFL doesn't want to hear college players knocking third coaches, even if it's true.
So he might sound whinny, while telling the truth about why he played poorly.

 

[vkj91]

Have a hard time believing any PSU fans predictions. How many 9 wins or bust posts were there last year? Rme re the worst case scenario we win 8 games crap?

 

[needmorecowbell]

Have a hard time believing any PSU fans predictions. How many 9 wins or bust posts were there last year? Rme re the worst case scenario we win 8 games crap?

PSU could close their eyes and get 6 wins next season but with Franklin coaching they probably have a ceiling of 7-8 wins. I'm going with 6-6 or 7-5 next year for psu. More of the same, stars on the roster with little success. The question I have for psu fans, is after another 6 or 7 win season would you fire Franklin?

 

[kjb32812]

PSU could close their eyes and get 6 wins next season but with Franklin coaching they probably have a ceiling of 7-8 wins. I'm going with 6-6 or 7-5 next year for psu. More of the same, stars on the roster with little success. The question I have for psu fans, is after another 6 or 7 win season would you fire Franklin?

They fell one win short of what I was expecting last year. The Temple game is really hard to judge because when you look at the two names, Penn State should be the winner. When you actually look at the two teams though, I don't think that's the case.

I think there are a couple issues at play on whether or not you would fire him. First, do they show progress - particularly on offense? Second, how does the recruiting class shape up?

People severely underestimate the negative impact the OL had on the team IMO. I'm not saying coaching and others (Hack) aren't to blame but it's tough to win against good teams if you're OL is that bad.

 

[kjb32812]

Well Hack has supposedly hurt his draft status blaming his problems on Franklin, but I read one ( possibly more) article by a so called expert say Hack hurt himself by telling the truth.
It's just that the NFL doesn't want to hear college players knocking third coaches, even if it's true.
So he might sound whinny, while telling the truth about why he played poorly.

Again, I have a hard time buying that James Franklin, Ricky Rahne or anyone other than Christian Hackenberg had any impact on Hack not being able to make the simplest of throws under no pressure. Another concern that I noticed last year is that he underthrew nearly every deep ball he threw. For a kid with a big arm, that shouldn't happen on a consistent basis.

 

[kjb32812]

So, with all this great talent amassed by Franklin, will he finally have an impressive year? Let's face it, over the past two years, he has had more talent then us and he really hasn't been all that impressive.

I guess I'm not understanding your post. Are you saying he hasn't been impressive against Rutgers or in general? Like I said above, the loss to Temple last year is the only one someone could really take issue with. PSU was a couple plays away from giving OSU a good game last year. The drop by Gesicki was one of the biggest plays of the season IMO. Let's also talk about the OSU game the year before. Was that not a good coaching job by Franklin? If anything, Urbs was the bonehead in that one for not demanding Barrett to keep on the read option. The DE was sucked in the entire half and yet Zeke kept getting the ball. Ironically, Barrett finally keeping it was the play that allowed him to waltz into the endzone in OT and win the game.

 

[Caliknight]

You don't go from the freshman year Hack had to the subsequent years, without looking directly at the coach. One thing changed.

 

[kjb32812]

You don't go from the freshman year Hack had to the subsequent years, without looking directly at the coach. One thing changed.

This post simply shows your lack of knowledge regarding the Penn State football team. That 2013 team had three OL that combined for 39 starts in the NFL last season. In addition to that, another guy was an UDFA. After the starters, there were four additional kids who were 4th or 5th year seniors who provided depth along the entire OL.

I've heard that OB knew he had to be out of dodge after the 2013 season because that was when his window was about to close. TIFWIW

 

[Caliknight]

Sounds like Obrien knew how to coach an OL better too.

 

[kjb32812]

Sounds like Obrien knew how to coach an OL better too.

Yeah, had nothing to do with the kids he had. In fairness, I'd take Mac McWhorter over Herb Hand any day. Just think if O'Brien knew a lick about defense and didn't have LBs returning kicks and punts.

 

[GSGS]

I guess I'm not understanding your post. Are you saying he hasn't been impressive against Rutgers or in general? Like I said above, the loss to Temple last year is the only one someone could really take issue with. PSU was a couple plays away from giving OSU a good game last year. The drop by Gesicki was one of the biggest plays of the season IMO. Let's also talk about the OSU game the year before. Was that not a good coaching job by Franklin? If anything, Urbs was the bonehead in that one for not demanding Barrett to keep on the read option. The DE was sucked in the entire half and yet Zeke kept getting the ball. Ironically, Barrett finally keeping it was the play that allowed him to waltz into the endzone in OT and win the game.

Giving OSU a good game last year? - that's a good one, you lost 38-10 after a 21-3 first half. Ah, yes, old "stone hands" Gesicki, I remember how good all Penn Staters said he's going to be, the self proclaimed "baby Gronk", LOL! As a Penn State hater (yes, I admit it), I can't decide what part of Gesicki's game I like better, his drops, his failure to block, or his persistent penalties, he truly is a complete player! And it's even more fun that the PSU faithful love reminding him of how much he sucks. He was quoted at one point during the season last year saying that he was receiving over 30 negative tweets a day from PSU "fans".

 

[kjb32812]

Giving OSU a good game last year? - that's a good one, you lost 38-10 after a 21-3 first half. Ah, yes, old "stone hands" Gesicki, I remember how good all Penn Staters said he's going to be, the self proclaimed "baby Gronk", LOL! As a Penn State hater (yes, I admit it), I can't decide what part of Gesicki's game I like better, his drops, his failure to block, or his persistent penalties, he truly is a complete player! And it's even more fun that the PSU faithful love reminding him of how much he sucks. He was quoted at one point during the season last year saying that he was receiving over 30 negative tweets a day from PSU "fans".

As I said, a few plays would have made a huge difference in Penn State making that a game. Maybe you didn't see the AZ interception the year before that brought an absolutely anemic Penn State team into a dogfight with OSU.

In regards to the Tweets, never heard that but I'm not on Twitter. Surprised you didn't blame Franklin for Gesicki's inability to catch the football once he got to Penn State.

 

[Knight Shift]

Again, I have a hard time buying that James Franklin, Ricky Rahne or anyone other than Christian Hackenberg had any impact on Hack not being able to make the simplest of throws under no pressure. Another concern that I noticed last year is that he underthrew nearly every deep ball he threw. For a kid with a big arm, that shouldn't happen on a consistent basis.

Does McSorley get the job this year? He looked better than Hack in the second half of your bowl game.
You worried about Pitt and/or Temple this year? Not busting balls, but if PSU loses both of those games, I can't imagine Franklin surviving unless PSU miraculously goes 10-2 or 9-3.

 

[kjb32812]

@GSGS

Were Gesicki's anything like this?

http://www.nj.com/rutgersfootball/i...eats_according_to_teammate_leonte_carroo.html

 

[kjb32812]

Does McSorley get the job this year? He looked better than Hack in the second half of your bowl game.
You worried about Pitt and/or Temple this year? Not busting balls, but if PSU loses both of those games, I can't imagine Franklin surviving unless PSU miraculously goes 10-2 or 9-3.

Said to be very close. Apparently Stevens has a lot of the same qualities but is bigger and has a bigger arm. Intangibles probably go to McSorley.

Yes, I am. PITT is going to be hyped for that game. I agree that if Franklin loses both those games, he could be in serious trouble.

 

[kjb32812]

Does McSorley get the job this year? He looked better than Hack in the second half of your bowl game.
You worried about Pitt and/or Temple this year? Not busting balls, but if PSU loses both of those games, I can't imagine Franklin surviving unless PSU miraculously goes 10-2 or 9-3.

BTW, our offense should look completely different this season because of Moorhead being hired as OC. Have heard nothing but good thinks about him and I'm excited to see what he can do with the incredible amount of talent we have at RB and WR.

 

[Knight Shift]

Said to be very close. Apparently Stevens has a lot of the same qualities but is bigger and has a bigger arm. Intangibles probably go to McSorley.

Yes, I am. PITT is going to be hyped for that game. I agree that if Franklin loses both those games, he could be in serious trouble.

Sounds like McSorley has speed/legs, and Stevens has the arm. Would Franklin split time between the QBs?

 

[Knight Shift]

BTW, our offense should look completely different this season because of Moorhead being hired as OC. Have heard nothing but good thinks about him and I'm excited to see what he can do with the incredible amount of talent we have at RB and WR.

Do you think Blacknall will emerge, or will he remain buried on the depth chart?

 

[GSGS]

As I said, a few plays would have made a huge difference in Penn State making that a game. Maybe you didn't see the AZ interception the year before that brought an absolutely anemic Penn State team into a dogfight with OSU.

In regards to the Tweets, never heard that but I'm not on Twitter. Surprised you didn't blame Franklin for Gesicki's inability to catch the football once he got to Penn State.

I'm sure that's part of it, I can't imagine Gesicki being that bad under Urban Meyer if he had picked tOSU.