How many reporters has your Head Coach blocked on Twitter?
Answer: a much higher number than Temple defensive players in the game last year.
Let's check in after the 2017 class is committed.
James Franklin deleted tweet
- Thread starter MikeR0102
- Start date
- Status
Answer: a much higher number than Temple defensive players in the game last year.
Let's check in after the 2017 class is committed.
This conversation is pointless, from both the Rutgers end and the Penn State end (and yes, I realize my post is only perpetuating it).
Rutgers fans, regardless of what you think about Franklin's in-game coaching ability, or lack thereof, it's sort of silly to harp on how bad he is when his teams have beaten yours each of the past two seasons, and last year in sound fashion. And the excuses about your coaching are easily offset by the roster limitations Franklin has been working with.
On the other hand, Penn State fans, you're not going to change people's minds about Franklin, at least not today. Obviously, he and his staff are far from incompetent - what he/they accomplished at Vanderbilt is testament to that - but fans of other programs are going to consistently point out that Franklin has yet to secure a "signature" win at Penn State. Only winning will change that perception; fortunately, I think that will start this season and only accelerate from there.
Is the season here yet?
Rutgers fans, regardless of what you think about Franklin's in-game coaching ability, or lack thereof, it's sort of silly to harp on how bad he is when his teams have beaten yours each of the past two seasons, and last year in sound fashion. And the excuses about your coaching are easily offset by the roster limitations Franklin has been working with.
On the other hand, Penn State fans, you're not going to change people's minds about Franklin, at least not today. Obviously, he and his staff are far from incompetent - what he/they accomplished at Vanderbilt is testament to that - but fans of other programs are going to consistently point out that Franklin has yet to secure a "signature" win at Penn State. Only winning will change that perception; fortunately, I think that will start this season and only accelerate from there.
Is the season here yet?
First of all- we fired our HC who lost to you guys..."Soundly" you beat us last year "soundly" no excuses...but did you watch the previous year?
PSUguy- you guys had a top 10 defense, a QB coming off an amazing year, a RB that wanted to play on your big stage and barely made a bowl in 2014. You should be calling for your HC's head! BTW- your last couple of years have been against very weak schedules for a B1G E team.
The idea that James Franklin's seat should even be lukewarm, let alone hot and people "calling for his head," is absurd. The roster limitations he has been working under have been well-documented in this thread, but it's worth pointing out once again how horrendous the offensive line situation was when he took over the job, and how generally inexperienced the roster has been. Entering this season, I believe fewer than 20 players will play for PSU who were NOT recruited by Franklin and his staff, so it is finally becoming his team, with players who should be strong fits for what the staff wants to do.
I'm not excusing the losses to Maryland and Illinois in 2014, or the loss to Temple last season even, as those things shouldn't happen at Penn State. But it's irresponsible not to consider the bigger picture; this hasn't been your father's Penn State the past few seasons, not even close. We should begin to see improvement this season, for a number of different reasons, and then Franklin will need to push for a 10-win season in 2017. If those things don't happen, THEN we can talk about finding a replacement for him. Penn State doesn't typically make knee-jerk reactions regarding its coaches, and I don't ever want the athletic department to operate in that fashion. Building a sustainable program takes time.
One last thing: The schedule last season might have lacked a marquee name in the nonconference portion, but it was not "weak." We all know about Temple's successful season, and another nonconference opponent, San Diego State, won 11 games. And one of Penn State's crossover games was against a Northwestern team that also finished with double-digit wins.
Last edited:
Yep all of that incorrect BS you posted is so much worse than child rape and allowing a predator to continue to prey on children so that his crimes won't tarnish your college football brand.
I've seen a whole bunch of 3/4 star guys on his roster that we would have loved to had signed and a 5 star QB. At some point, he has to start coaching these guys up. How about coming up with something to try to protect Hack just a little bit...you know, coach...
fify
The best win for psu/franklin was, if not RU in '14, a 7-6 bcu.
Unrivaled.
Although I agree that the combination of scheme, Hackenberg's skill set, and the complete and utter lack of talent up front was just not a good fit, and some things could have been done differently, there isn't a coach alive that was going to get great production out of Penn State's offensive linemen the past two seasons. The kids just weren't that talented. One of Franklin's best decisions since he took the PSU job was to fire John Donovan and hire Joe Moorhead to be his OC. I think you'll see our offense start taking big steps forward this fall.
Any time Vanderbilt beats Georgia or Florida or another SEC team of that caliber, it's a signature win, down seasons or not. I mean, we're talking about Vanderbilt.
Regardless of your opinion on that, though, it doesn't matter. I'm not concerned about Franklin's "career." I only care about what he does at Penn State. If/when he beats Iowa and/or Michigan State this season, will that be enough for you?
U see this is where we disagree. When the sanctions hit, most of the upperclassman stayed and so PSU really wasn't hurt as bad the first couple of years with the sanctions. It's the fact that after, we were handcuffed and had 20 less scholorships than any other school that our depth got decimated. Yes Hack had a good season 3 years ago but the last two seasons he's been running for his life with no one to block for him... PSU was forced to bring in JUCO O-lineman which is something they traditionally never do and convert DT's to play o-line simply on numbers.
I'm flattered that you think PSU should be doing so much better but for those of us that follow the team, we understand that the scholorship restrictions killed our o -line depth and it doesn't matter if you have tom brady back there if you can't keepur qb upright. I'll start getting on Franklin in 2 years if the o-line still is an issue, but as I stated before, it's takes O-lineman a good 3 years to get ready for the college game. last year Franklin was in year 2
I find it interesting that you guys harp on Hack so much. Why don't we talk about Darius Hamilton? Wasn't he the #11 player in the country? What the heck did he do at Rutgers? Did your coaching staff ruin him? I'm guessing you will say he was a tweener but so was Anthony Zettel and James Franklin seemed to do a pretty damn good job with him. Meanwhile, he was also turning a walk-on into an AA.
Laughable. I guess our win against Army was a signature win because they won 3 straight National Championships. Nice to know.
again fify.
The answer is - sure, if those teams end up being any good. (see how that works...)
If you get a win against a down OSU, MSU or Michigan, I wonder if you will be quick to point it out.
BTW, I agree with you but a win is a win.
Hey, why not. We're not "unrivaled", right? We'll take any crappy nugget we can get.
Reality. As you said, all wins count. But the operative word here is, signature.
See this is hysterical. Rutgers fans saying how Penn State and Franklin needs a signiture win to be credible and yet u all have put all ur eggs into Chris Ash's basket pronouncing him as the next savior when he hasn't even coached a game yet.... Oh the irony. just give it one season and when Rutgers goes 4-8 again this year we'll see all the "Ash is Trash" threads
If you think present-day Army compared with national titles in the 1940s is even remotely the same thing as Vanderbilt being established programs like Georgia and Florida - even of the seven-win variety - there's no need to continue on this subject.
And guess what, if Iowa falls back and Michigan State is hurt by its departures, and that allows Penn State to go, say, 10-2, I'm not going to call the season a failure because we lost to Michigan and Ohio State. At some point in the near future - I'm thinking 2017 - winning those "big" games will be important because they'll mean we're competing for championships. I'm not going to get worked up over the fact that Franklin didn't beat a big-name program in 2014 or 2015, because it wouldn't have meant a whole lot in the grand scheme of things, except to people who point to his lack of said win as a flaw.
Obviously his record speaks for itself and he has had trouble getting wins against rated teams. And yes, I know that is an understatement. I'm still on the fence though. I just want to make sure we are winning the ones we are supposed to and then I will worry about the others.
This is the only thing that can be heard from you. Here's a suggestion, just stop.
In fairness, I've done the exact same thing with Moorhead and have admitted as much. That's what fans do. Trust me because I'm a Browns fan. Hue Jackson is considered the next Lombardi right now.
The great irony in this is, every poster here who constantly puts down Penn State and James Franklin will be screaming from their rooftops if RU ever beats PSU. Nevermind that they'll tell you PSU isn't any good at every opportunity they get, it would be their "signature" win.
You will notice that some of the more active posters aren't ITT. I was here before the 2014 game and a lot of Rutgers posters said that if they beat us we would say it was because of the sanctions but they still wanted the win. A win against a program that is perceived as better than yours doesn't come with an asterisk.
Oh, I agree, a win is a win is a win, which is why it's unfair not to give Franklin credit for Vanderbilt's wins against Auburn, Tennessee (twice), Georgia and Florida, regardless of how those teams finished those respective seasons. And FWIW, although Georgia finished 8-5 in 2013, they were ranked No. 15 in the country when they lost to Vanderbilt. I think a lot of people here don't quite realize how difficult it is to win at Vanderbilt, and in the SEC no less. Franklin performed minor miracles there.
Darius Hamilton was named 3rd Team All Big Ten in 2014 and was All AAC in 2013. Last year in early summer he had a leg injury (from a blocking sled of all things) which basically shut him down for the whole season. A shame, as he had put on much needed weight to perform as a Big Ten DT. This year he's all set to go, although they're keeping him from contact as of now in Spring Practice. Even if he isn't given the green light during the spring, I expect him to be full go once summer camp starts.
Yeah, I don't get the dig on Hamilton. He maybe hasn't been a five star first ballot lock or anything, but he has been all conference when he plays. He was SORELY missed last year. There was zero pressure on the QB from the front four.
I wouldn't ever talk up any coach before I see them coach but there's a big difference between a coordinater and a HC
he was in our backfield the entire 2014 game.....i was glad to not see him last year.
Doug Leeson said:
(Doug is a sophomore and Onward State's Assistant Managing Editor)
>I’m not saying James Franklin should be fired or even put on the hot seat (yet), but no one in or around the program should be satisfied with what we’ve seen the last two years.
The way I see it, success is a measure of accomplishing what should be done. There were two “shoulds” in the last few years — the first was that Penn State should have at least one losing record in the sanctions era, and Bill O’Brien and James Franklin managed to avoid that with at least seven wins in the last four years. That’s a success that set up others. The next should was that talent was in place, a mostly returning roster and coaching staff was here in 2015, and it should have torn apart an easy schedule. Finishing 7-6 having only beaten bad teams could’ve been a prediction from four years ago, but it wasn’t before the season.
To call 2015 a success, or even not a failure, is to pretend that the team wasn’t shot in the foot by bad offensive coordinating, game mismanagement from the head coach, and coming out of four winnable games (Temple, Northwestern, Michigan, and Georgia) 0-4.
Patrick’s right in that more talent is in place than in years past, but what good does it do if DaeSean Hamilton has all the talent in the world, then when teams gameplan at all against him, he has a down sophomore year? What good does it do if potential all-world tight end Mike Gesicki can’t catch in crucial moments, and what good does it do if three teams in the Big Ten East are arguably more talented?
There are flaws in the team that made 2015 worse than it should’ve been, and that’s why I think the James Franklin era hasn’t been a success so far. I’m optimistic about the future and I agree that the program is in a good spot (I’m very, very excited for Moorhead, Limegrover, and Pry), but there need to be on-field results in 2016 to turn around the public perception.<
I don't disagree with anything the author wrote here, so I'm not sure why you chose to post it. I don't think it contradicts anything I've said previously.
I agree that we need to see progress in 2016, meaning an 8- or hopefully 9-win regular season (and just as important, especially for continued recruiting success, an offense that is capable and fun to watch). That would lead a talented, experienced team into 2017 with a shot to win the B1G.
I don't think anyone is thrilled with the overall performance but that excerpt is a little odd. Is it Franklins fault that there has never been a PSU TE who dropped as many uncontested, wide open, perfectly thrown balls? No. Its Gesickis gault. Hamilton had a down year and Godwin became a star. To boot, Hamilton was moved to the slot because he doesn't have the necessary speed. Then he points out the four winnable games? Hey, that's football. In regards to UGA, those kids fought like hell to get back in it yet the author doesn't acknowledge that.
In regards to Hamilton, has Rutgers ruined him? 3rd team all B1G is nothing for the #11 player in the country. You are ruining him just like you ruined Huggins
BTW, that is what you sound like when saying Franklin ruined Hack. The reality is that Penn State ruined Hack. The head of the snake is the sleazy liar who got Hack and the other B4 and their parents together and sold them a bag of shet.
That is who ruined Hack, not James Franklin.
In regards to Hamilton, has Rutgers ruined him? 3rd team all B1G is nothing for the #11 player in the country. You are ruining him just like you ruined Huggins
BTW, that is what you sound like when saying Franklin ruined Hack. The reality is that Penn State ruined Hack. The head of the snake is the sleazy liar who got Hack and the other B4 and their parents together and sold them a bag of shet.
That is who ruined Hack, not James Franklin.
On the topic of Hackenberg, the people who think James Franklin "ruined" him just aren't paying very close attention to the entire situation.
As a freshman, was Hack impressive? Absolutely. But his completion percentage of 58.9% and touchdown-to-interception ratio of 2-to-1 don't exactly jump out at you. Go back and watch the film; the same issues Hack had the past two seasons - the lack of touch on certain passes, poor footwork, throwing bubble screens into the ground - were there three years ago. You know what else was there? Three future NFL starters at offensive line and a wide receiver who is currently one of the three or five best in the league. Give Hack a lot of credit for the win against Michigan and the win at Wisconsin that season, but a lot of times the best play was a quick pass to Allen Robinson that he would take for 12-15 yards or a jump ball that he would go up and get.
When you take a freshman who shows great talent but is raw, and then you have him learn a new system while playing behind one of, if not the worst lines in the country, it's hard to expect he'll take the next step. Bill O'Brien is a better coach of quarterbacks than James Franklin - no one is going to argue that - but Franklin is far down on the list of reasons why Hack didn't progress as expected during his college career.
As a freshman, was Hack impressive? Absolutely. But his completion percentage of 58.9% and touchdown-to-interception ratio of 2-to-1 don't exactly jump out at you. Go back and watch the film; the same issues Hack had the past two seasons - the lack of touch on certain passes, poor footwork, throwing bubble screens into the ground - were there three years ago. You know what else was there? Three future NFL starters at offensive line and a wide receiver who is currently one of the three or five best in the league. Give Hack a lot of credit for the win against Michigan and the win at Wisconsin that season, but a lot of times the best play was a quick pass to Allen Robinson that he would take for 12-15 yards or a jump ball that he would go up and get.
When you take a freshman who shows great talent but is raw, and then you have him learn a new system while playing behind one of, if not the worst lines in the country, it's hard to expect he'll take the next step. Bill O'Brien is a better coach of quarterbacks than James Franklin - no one is going to argue that - but Franklin is far down on the list of reasons why Hack didn't progress as expected during his college career.
Last edited:
Well, at least you now get into a conversation mode...I understand some depth issues but it seems that you guys lean on the sanctions way too much. And I am sure every other fan base does as well too. I'm not sure the sanctions hurt as much as it would seem it should. You guys still had a lot of highly ranked kids on the field most of the time, even if they were young. And when it comes to OL play, no one understands what it takes for most OL to be good more than I do. But an OL that is a project takes 3 years a high 3 or 4 star OL should be serviceable in their 2nd year. Good in their 3-4 year. Franklin had to find a way to make Hack successful. That kid just has way too much talent and you had some very good skill players out there. Again, he needs to coach.
But, let's both see how the season goes. Last year, you guys should have had 8 wins with your eyes closed. This year, 8-9 wins with your eyes closed. 2017- with your classes, you guys have to be fighting for the B1G championship.
Let's see how DH does this year with a real defensive mind on his side. He was injured all last year and the year previous, we were so thin, at 260 lbs at DT, he was doubled all the time and cause a ton of havoc in the backfield. He actually had a VERY good year.
Cheesesteak - as to your first bolded thought above, yes, I'll admit it, we did not just lose to PSU last year, we were abused like a 10 year old boy inside a Penn State locker room. PSU limitations? - a few schollies taken away? Cry me a river. FYI, Rutgers played that game with its starting secondary in the State Penn (what you guys used to be before Sandusky changed your nickname), its incompetent HC Elmer Fludd at home after being suspended, not to mention w/o our top O and D players in Carroo and Hamilton.
To your second point, Franklin and his staff from Vanderbilt? What staff? You mean OC John Donovan? - gone!!! DC Bob Shoop? - gone!!! OL coach Herb Hand? - gone!!! Sorry you missed the off-season news. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm not sure Rutgers had a shot to win last year's game even if it had its full roster. The game was non-competitive for the most part. But you're entitled to your opinion on that.
I wasn't aware that James Franklin's staff consisted of only three assistants. Shoop is a high-quality DC, but no one at Penn State is shedding a tear over the departures of Donovan and Hand. Donovan was in over his head at a place like PSU - as evidenced by his landing spot being as an offensive quality control coach with the Jacksonville Jaguars - and Hand, who didn't accomplish much with this group of linemen, was never going to last with the shift in offensive philosophies.
Feel free to continue to downplay the impact of the sanctions on Penn State's depth; it doesn't make it any less true. For the first time since the sanctions, for example, we finally have what can be considered a legit two-deep at the OL positions. The depth at DT and LB is still somewhat concerning, but otherwise the roster is starting to more closely resemble what you'd normally expect.
"Eight wins with your eyes closed." They won seven. Five of the six losses were to teams that finished the season ranked. The other was to a Temple team that won 10 games. Is that really such an indictment on James Franklin? One fewer win that you would have expected?
In 2016, if Penn State does only what it did last season - beat the teams its supposed to, lose to the others - it would likely result in an 8-4 record. I think 8-9 wins seems like an appropriate expectation, so no disagreement there, though many PSU fans are tempering expectations with the new QB and coaching turnover. We'll see what happens. Personally, I think our offense will take big steps forward this fall.
- Status
