Jerry carinos thoughts on practice today

[higgins3]

I am on board with the fans saying this team is better than last years team.I do agree that it is

Losing Omoruyi will be a small, not major hit. Especially if Carter has made his strides as we've heard/seen. X factor to me is still Jacob Young and his ability to play on all three parts of the game, with main emphasis being defensively. I hope he can. The team needs defenders to step up. A defensive unit would have to include Young and Mathis out there together late in the game, and potentially before half.

I hope they can find a way to clean up free throw shooting. A hard task, but that will help.

The nerves are intense with 8,000 eyes on you. Relaxation and exact routine has to be a key. That can't be replicated in practice. Add in poor momentum and you have players lacking confidence under shaky nerves.

 

[higgins3]

I definitely think we're better if he's on the team this year. Like NCAA bubble good. Which is just so weird considering one of the reasons he left was he didn't think so.

You can also look at games like the one against Iowa where Harper dropped 27. I think big jumps from Harper or Mathis or even Carter can somewhat make up for his absence. I think 12th in the conference is just too low. I think 8-11 is more realistic.

We are acting like Omoruyi could be counted on for a whole season. For the last two years, that hasn't been the case. Therefore, we are greatly overestimating his loss. It's hard to help from the bench.

 

[MadRU]

Most teams lose key players every year, whether graduation, Pro, or transfer. When a coach has time to game plan and setup a rotation teams usually come out ok.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Plus Young and Yeboah. This team is better than last year's team

How often have we assumed new pieces are better than they really are. You would think expectations eventually would get tempered after being wrong so many times.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We are acting like Omoruyi could be counted on for a whole season. For the last two years, that hasn't been the case. Therefore, we are greatly overestimating his loss. It's hard to help from the bench.

Agree 100%. Except that the team without Eugene last year was totally different than the team with him. Sample size small, but we were probably the worst team in the B1G without him. Do people remember losing to Northwestern at home?

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/game-17-northwestern-coulda-woulda-shoulda.160826/

 

[kcg88]

Agree 100%. Except that the team without Eugene last year was totally different than the team with him. Sample size small, but we were probably the worst team in the B1G without him. Do people remember losing to Northwestern at home?

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/game-17-northwestern-coulda-woulda-shoulda.160826/

And we lost to Fordham and almost lost to Columbia with him.

I'm with you in saying that people should temper their expectations, I just don't think Omoruyi transferring out is the reason why.

 

[rubaseball78]

In practice?

There is little to no correlation between foul shooting in practice and games. No one knows this better than me, unfortunately.

I wouldn't say no but people generally shoot better FTs in practice than in games.

 

[RutgHoops]

Watch the 3 games he was out and the last 3 games he was playing on one leg. I think our fans are under emphasizing his loss.

I dare anyone to rewatch the Nebraska game where a walkon was killing us.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/game-31-nebraska-bad-taste.164528/

We beat Minnesota without him. Beat Nebraska @Nebraska without him. Beat PSU @PSU in his first game back when he went 2-9/11points/4 rebs off the bench. So not sure it was as bad as you recall. And forget the "stats", Eugene was AWFUL in the game v Nebraska in the B1G tournament. Awful. It happens and not ragging on the kid, but he was really bad.

Losing Eugene and Doorson while adding Young, Yeboah, Mulcahy and Doucoure doesn't seem to me to be the "death knell" some feel it will be. In fact, feels a bit like just about everyone last season who thought a "for sure step back" after losing Corey, Deshaun and Williams. Plus a year of experience and development for the six (6!) kids who were first year players last season. 9-2/10-10/1-1/20-13

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We beat Minnesota without him. Beat Nebraska @Nebraska without him. Beat PSU @PSU in his first game back when he went 2-9/11points/4 rebs off the bench. So not sure it was as bad as you recall. And forget the "stats" Eugene was AWFUL in the game v Nebraska in the B1G tournament. Awful.

Losing Eugene and Doorson while adding Young, Yeboah, Mulcahy and Doucoure doesn't seem to me to be the "death knell" some feel it will be. Plus a year of experience and development for the six (6)! kids who were first year players last season. 9-2/10-10/1-1/20-13

You usually are right about things so you got me nervous about my memory.

Eugene had 14 pts 9reb in that Minnesota game
http://barttorvik.com/box.php?muid=MinnesotaRutgers2-24&year=2019

We didnt play nebraska in Nebraska. We beat Nebraska at home and the write ups said we were spurred by the Willis Reed return on Eugene.

Eugene was AWFUL in that last game....AWFUL....He was playing on one leg. That is a game that highlights the concern if he was on the team this year.

Also there were threads about whether Pikiell was the right coach when Eugene was out. And 2 threads where 95% of people said he would have beaten NW with Eugene and wouldnt have beaten Nebraska without him.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

And we lost to Fordham and almost lost to Columbia with him.

I'm with you in saying that people should temper their expectations, I just don't think Omoruyi transferring out is the reason why.

It is going to come down to whether or not we can compete on the defensive end without his presence AND whether the offense can be better without him as the ball moves better, usage is even 1 thru 5, and the offensive efficient guys of last year stay efficient with more usage.

I see a potential path for us to be better offensively.....I just have a tough time envisioning us as an average defensive team. Maybe Young is the defensive guy some think he will be....I just have been down this road so many times and I refuse to believe the hype. I want to see it 1st. Last year's flavor of the year is projected not even to be in the rotation.

 

[RUChoppin]

Agree 100%. Except that the team without Eugene last year was totally different than the team with him. Sample size small, but we were probably the worst team in the B1G without him. Do people remember losing to Northwestern at home?

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/game-17-northwestern-coulda-woulda-shoulda.160826/

We also beat OSU last year after he went down early, playing only 7 minutes with 0 points and 1 rebound. And with him suited up, we got blown out against SJU, lost by 8 @ (12-20) Fordham, and had to use overtime to beat (10-18) Columbia at home.

Yes we looked very bad in that stretch against Minnesota, Purdue, and Northwestern - but there were other games we looked bad with him, and times we didn't look bad without him.

He was also a focal point of our strategy last year, so pulling him out of the rotation was a disruption. We'll have had a whole offseason to build a strategy that doesn't focus on him, which will also mitigate the loss.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I agree with 1/2 of what you say...half of the court. the other half......The team will miss 30 charges and the defensive example

 

[RUJMM78]

We beat Minnesota without him. Beat Nebraska @Nebraska without him. Beat PSU @PSU in his first game back when he went 2-9/11points/4 rebs off the bench. So not sure it was as bad as you recall. And forget the "stats", Eugene was AWFUL in the game v Nebraska in the B1G tournament. Awful. It happens and not ragging on the kid, but he was really bad.

Losing Eugene and Doorson while adding Young, Yeboah, Mulcahy and Doucoure doesn't seem to me to be the "death knell" some feel it will be. In fact, feels a bit like just about everyone last season who thought a "for sure step back" after losing Corey, Deshaun and Williams. Plus a year of experience and development for the six (6!) kids who were first year players last season. 9-2/10-10/1-1/20-13

The whole team was awful against a depleted Nebraska team in the B1G Tournament.Nobody could stop Parker in the second half.

 

[RutgHoops]

You usually are right about things so you got me nervous about my memory.

Eugene had 14 pts 9reb in that Minnesota game
http://barttorvik.com/box.php?muid=MinnesotaRutgers2-24&year=2019

We didnt play nebraska in Nebraska. We beat Nebraska at home and the write ups said we were spurred by the Willis Reed return on Eugene.

Eugene was AWFUL in that last game....AWFUL....He was playing on one leg. That is a game that highlights the concern if he was on the team this year.

Sorry. Meant Ohio State not Minnesota.

In that three game stretch EO went down Kiss had to play 16 mpg and Thiam had to play 20 mpg. That isn't happening this year. We are deeper and better

 

[cubuffsdoug]

How often have we assumed new pieces are better than they really are. You would think expectations eventually would get tempered after being wrong so many times.

It's not like the replacement pieces don't have some history with their previous teams. There is something to base it on and compare players. We all agreed that Eugene could be a black hole with the ball in his hands. That kills an offense every time. I think his replacements help the offense flow better and be a real threat. And let's not forget chemistry. Eugene seemed to wear out his welcome with some of the younger guys. How would that play out this year? There are a lot of factors to consider pro and con. I think the advantages with the replacements guys are a little ahead of the drawbacks.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Sorry. Meant Ohio State not Minnesota.

In that three game stretch EO went down Kiss had to play 16 mpg and Thiam had to play 20 mpg. That isn't happening this year. We are deeper and better

I live in a binary world....he played. cant use it.:WideSmile:

 

[RutgHoops]

I agree with 1/2 of what you say...half of the court. the other half......The team will miss 30 charges and the defensive example

In three years under Coach P in kenpom defensive efficiency metric we were 70,28, 46. I think you are attributing WAY too much of that to Omoruyi. We have defended and rebounded for three consecutive years under Coach P. I don't see that changing much.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

It's not like the replacement pieces don't have some history with their previous teams. There is something to base it on and compare players. We all agreed that Eugene could be a black hole with the ball in his hands. That kills an offense every time. I think his replacements help the offense flow better and be a real threat. And let's not forget chemistry. Eugene seemed to wear out his welcome with some of the younger guys. How would that play out this year? There are a lot of factors to consider pro and con. I think the advantages with the replacements guys are a little ahead of the drawbacks.

Kiss was a beast vs. SHU and Gonzaga. They all have history with previous teams or are 5 star rated. Nigel Johnson had a few great games for Kansas State.

I agree 100% with everything else you say. I think things had the potential to be even worse than you are alluding too.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

In three years under Coach P in kenpom defensive efficiency metric we were 70,28, 46. I think you are attributing WAY too much of that to Omoruyi. We have defended and rebounded for three consecutive years under Coach P. I don't see that changing much.

Maybe. Seeing the guy give up his body next to you could help team defense more than the actual charge.

There is no doubt the stats you mention is the primary thing to keep an eye on. Pikiell would tell you that too.

 

[NewJerseyHawk]

I feel like if I find the same posts from this time last year, it was Corey Sanders, Freeman and Mike Williams....now its Eugene, who no one could argue was a better player than Sanders or Freeman.

The reason it was more difficult to initially replace Sanders etc for the 1st 2 months was due to the freshman not being ready and asking Eugene Omoyuri to be a leading scoring threat when he doesn't have the perimeter and offensive game to score from 3 point range and 2 consistently.

The difference or reasons why RU has more upside, is because there are more options to go to for scoring early this year.

I just don't see why our fan base runs away from the thoughts of improvement, when the information is right in front of the fans with evidence showing it's taken place.

 

[RutgHoops]

I feel like if I find the same posts from this time last year, it was Corey Sanders, Freeman and Mike Williams....now its Eugene, who no one could argue was a better player than Sanders or Freeman.

The reason it was more difficult to initially replace Sanders etc for the 1st 2 months was due to the freshman not being ready and asking Eugene Omoyuri to be a leading scoring threat when he doesn't have the perimeter and offensive game to score from 3 point range and 2 consistently.

The difference or reasons why RU has more upside, is because there are more options to go to for scoring early this year.

I just don't see why our fan base runs away from the thoughts of improvement, when the information is right in front of the fans with evidence showing it's taken place.

To be fair @Greene Rice FIG has been more "right" than "wrong" in his takes on RU MBB. While I have taken/take issue with some of his positions I do read them and never dismiss his thoughts out of hand.

 

[soundcrib]

.501 is the goal. Anything else is gravy.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

I feel like if I find the same posts from this time last year, it was Corey Sanders, Freeman and Mike Williams....now its Eugene, who no one could argue was a better player than Sanders or Freeman.
.

I was very clear last year that we would be much better offensively this year without Sanders and Freeman. Freeman and Sanders have way more talent than Eugene. They are not better college basketball players....sorry. I'll argue that all day long. Don't bait me :WideSmile:

Now I think junior Freeman was different than senior Freeman and I was really worried Eugene was going to go down that path offensively AND had obvious questions about his knee.

My argument is less that Eugene leaving will hurt us. I think we could be better off without him based on my belief that a hobbled Eugene, with fractured chemistry, plus a guy who has eyes on pro basketball could have been toxic. The 7-13 B1G record, to me, is not indicative of what we were without a healthy junior Eugene.

 

[kcg88]

I'll also take the side that Eugene was better than Corey and Freeman.

 

[BillyC80]

You have to assess the current RU roster, and ability to win games, on its own merits, and not based on guys that are no longer here.

To wit, Gene is a good defender who took 30 charges a year. Okay fine, so he’s gone, but now we have a guy who plays the same position who can knock down threes. Not saying one is better than the other, just that they have unique and different skill sets, both helpful toward winning games.

My point is not to compare but to say we are a different team now with different chemistry, and whatever we may have lost through transfers or graduation we will overcome with different skills and contributions, from new guys who transferred in or new guys who enrolled as freshmen.

In the end we just need to score one more point than our opponent, and that can be done with better defense or better offense (or a combination). Makes no difference how we get it done.

 

[knights1212]

GRF thinks we will win less games this year in the BIG. I think we will win 7 or 8 and everything else is gravy. We shall see. He might be correct but I think we will have a winning season. We must win at least 9 of our 11 OOC games. If we do that and win 7 games in league we have 16 wins. If we win 8 league games we will have 17 wins in the regular season. I don't think we are asking too much for a winning season. We must get that monkey off our backs and just continue to improve. I think adding Young, Yeboah & Mulcahy that we will be better than last season. we shall see.

 

[knights1212]

We also are not going to lose all 30 charges. Our new players will pick up a few.

 

[PaKnight]

Watch the 3 games he was out and the last 3 games he was playing on one leg. I think our fans are under emphasizing his loss.

I dare anyone to rewatch the Nebraska game where a walkon was killing us.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/game-31-nebraska-bad-taste.164528/

But how much of his loss is going to be covered by Yeboah?

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

But how much of his loss is going to be covered by Yeboah?

Maybe he will break the current string of transfers or grad transfer underperforming expectations. Maybe us finally getting in to the 21st century and not having a back to the basket 4 will move the needle a lot offensively.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

We also are not going to lose all 30 charges. Our new players will pick up a few.

Who?

Outside of Mathis did we have any players take a charge?

 

[Scangg]

How often have we assumed new pieces are better than they really are. You would think expectations eventually would get tempered after being wrong so many times.

Loll the king of wrong trying to say I'm wrong for thinking next year's team is better? Wow. Save this post. Another bad take FIG classic

 

[RUChoppin]

My feeling is that we could definitely be better overall this year than we were last year, even with the loss of Omoruyi. But that if we had this current roster PLUS Omoruyi, we'd have been better still.

I also have concerns with post defense. I think Mathis/Young can give us some defensive presence, and was happy to hear some noise out of practice about McConnell's defense. But underneath, that's a bigger question mark. Carter looked lost last year and was frequently out of position - he really needs to take the biggest leap forward defensively. Johnson needs to make some better decisions and have some better body control - he usually was where he needed to be, but either got there a step late or tried to do too much. Doucoure took a couple charges as a freshman, and I had hoped he'd learn from Omoruyi as a sophomore - no idea what we'll get from him defensively this year.

 

[Scangg]

.501 is the goal. Anything else is gravy.

No no no no no no. .500 is the absolute bare minimum expectation. If it's the goal that's pathetic. Expectations aren't goals. Goals need to be something you strive to attain if the team plays to its highest potential. From this point forward the goal is NCAA tournament every year. Maybe we get there this year maybe we don't but that is the goal.

.500 goal for this team is a joke. It's a goal a lame coach like Ash would have. Challenge your team.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

Loll the king of wrong trying to say I'm wrong for thinking next year's team is better? Wow. Save this post. Another bad take FIG classic

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/top-5-scorers.155828/

Shaq Carter is one of the intriguing new players this season. He is a big body around the basket and we all expect him to protect the rim, rebound, score on dump off and put backs, but can he shoot the ball at all? Anyone see him play? What is the range on his jumper or is he a strictly in the paint guy?

 

[Scangg]

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/top-5-scorers.155828/

Shaq Carter is one of the intriguing new players this season. He is a big body around the basket and we all expect him to protect the rim, rebound, score on dump off and put backs, but can he shoot the ball at all? Anyone see him play? What is the range on his jumper or is he a strictly in the paint guy?

You send a link to a thread where you predicted our scoring leaders by naming no one on the team? Lol damn you really proved how right you are an how wrong I was with that one. Just an odd post...

All I said in that thread was a response to someone else's list where they had both Kiss and Mathis under 4PPG. I said no way both average under 4 at least one of them has to be scoring. They both averaged over 4. So I was right... What point are you trying to prove here?

As for Carter, he will be much improved. He flashed an outside shot late in the season. Not sure if he's worked on it enough for him to be a threat from the outside, but he will be more of an interior player for us. I believe Pike said he was the most improved players and he hasn't been BS'ing when he has said that in the past as he said the same about EO when he took major strides in the off season and we saw it on the court. Carter's body looks vastly improved and we will see a more active player bc of it. I really think we see Carter take a big step defensively this year as well where he looked lost at times last season

 

[ScarletR30]

Agree 100%. Except that the team without Eugene last year was totally different than the team with him. Sample size small, but we were probably the worst team in the B1G without him. Do people remember losing to Northwestern at home?

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/game-17-northwestern-coulda-woulda-shoulda.160826/

But you just want to ignore the Ohio St game?

 

[cubuffsdoug]

Stats don't tell the entire story.

Almost everyone here has missed or completely forgot about these two important factors, heart, and mindset. 18 to 22 y/o kids are more emotional than anything. Talent is there, but on any given day, their mindset and heart can be the difference. The more success they experience, the more their heart beats no fear, and their minds believe they are great. The best example is Harper after the first Iowa game. Fans were in disbelief, but Harper kept saying we are better than them. The next time Rutgers faced Iowa, they blew the doors off them. Last year was a learning experience. This year is a way of life. The team believes they are better than Penn St., Iowa, Minnesota and even Wisconsin.

 

[Greene Rice FIG]

scangg,

purpose of post was to show how most, including you, expects too much from newcomers. didnt mean it to show you individually were wrong.

I saw a post from the past where you correctly said he would be much better offensively (at the time a contrarian thought) because we got rid of a bunch of bad shooters. You were 100% right at the time when 95% of people disagreed.

 

[Scangg]

scangg,

purpose of post was to show how most, including you, expects too much from newcomers. didnt mean it to show you individually were wrong.

I saw a post from the past where you correctly said he would be much better offensively (at the time a contrarian thought) because we got rid of a bunch of bad shooters. You were 100% right at the time when 95% of people disagreed.

Where in that post did I say anything remotely close to expecting too much from newcomers? I didn't say anything even close to that. As for newcomers I was laughing at the Harper redshirt crew. Said Caleb was a great under recruited get. Also was essentially the only person defending Caleb early in the season saying it wasn't a talent issue it was a confidence issue and he would be fine. I said Thiam would start the season but eventually lose his minutes to the freshman etc etc

But yes I was right about the offense last year. I was right about almost everything actually. I was one of the few who wasn't impressed with Kiss tape. So much so I thought I must be missing something. I will admit I did buy into Pike saying he was the best shooter on the team and after that thought he would be able to contribute and that my initial take must have been wrong butttt I was right there too. I do think Kiss has potential to shoot better this season. He does have a nice stroke but I don't expect him to contribute too much and should be more like 9th or so in the rotation

 

[Degaz-RU]

Watch the 3 games he was out and the last 3 games he was playing on one leg. I think our fans are under emphasizing his loss.

I dare anyone to rewatch the Nebraska game where a walkon was killing us.

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/game-31-nebraska-bad-taste.164528/

Agree 100%. Except that the team without Eugene last year was totally different than the team with him. Sample size small, but we were probably the worst team in the B1G without him. Do people remember losing to Northwestern at home?

https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/threads/game-17-northwestern-coulda-woulda-shoulda.160826/

There's a big difference between a "sudden" loss of a starter mid-season, and having the entire off-season to plan around not having him. Thus, you're drawing a false equivalency here between (A) losing Eugene for 3 games and (B) having him transfer off the team. Just because we struggled without him during those 3 games doesn't automatically mean we will struggle in the same way without him on the team.

That said, I do share some of your concern that his absence will hurt our interior defense, but I think that the loss of Doorson will have an equal impact. However, I think that the improvements of Myles, Carter, and Doucoure, the addition of Yeboah (who is a good interior defender despite only being 6-6), and our better offensive flow/output, will more than offset those departures.