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Jerry KILLs us Again

RURahh

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Sep 21, 2013
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Been saying ALL year that he is coaching scared, and he runs an outdated offense that will NEVER allow us to compete with above average teams in the BIG10. We have 1 touchdown in 3 games on a busted coverage, and more importantly, we have been more than doubled up in Time of Possession which leaves our defense tired, susceptible to injury and allows opposing teams offenses to take more chances than usual


I fully expect to see the same vitrol comments like "enough already", "troll", "Mrs Flood" and finally, you and a few other posters are the cancer around Rutgers football so find another team to root for. Look, the guy is great at press conferences, players love him, he has great credibility as a HEAD COACH, but i have yet to see one credible post that justifies having him as an offensive coordinator. We have far better talent than is being utilized, but when your play calling is so scared and predictable, you can make average talent look below sub-par and continuity for continuities sake is just not a good enough reason to keep repeating the same mistake

I know there is no chance of replacing Kill next year, but for gods sake, please get someone in to develop our QB's, get a WR coach who can actually recruit and DEVELOP and hopefully, someone who can help Kill with the X's and O's and add a little bit of energy and excitement to the offense because I expect our defense to be easily in the top half of the BIG 10 next year
 
not a good answer but its the ONLY answer people can give at this point
 
Anyone who wants to point to 3 wins in the BIG should just watch a tape of the Purdue game, we tried every conceivable way to hand them the game

I do think/hope, that Ash is a bit like Greg, learning on the job and smart enough to correct mistakes ( Mehringer and that awful RB coach from last year not worth remembering). It would be hard for him to bring in a co offensive coordinator given Kill's credibility as a HEAD Coach, so Ash is between a rock and a hard place...he seems intent on building a Penn State model from the mid 80's which will never work in this decade. I am all for giving him more time and both he and Kill are both good people with great integrity but if our offense can't progress next year by at least 30 slots (which is not asking ALot given our softer schedule) changes need to be made and Ash's seat gets warm in 2019
 
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Ive said it for the past 2 years
the coaching staff looks as lost as the teams looks sometimes
after Blackshear luckily all but STOPPED to field one of Lewis off kilter under throws
we didnt see that type of play again
We should have sent Blackshear to the endzone more
he is speedy & Lewis has a cannon
we had nothing to lose
 
If Jafar Williams is still on staff by January I will be very disappointed. But if you are Ash, how do u tell the BIG Coach of the Year in 2014 that he isn't even good enough to be an offensive coordinator. I don't think Ash has it in him and he relies on Kill to much for other aspects of coaching
 
If Jafar Williams is still on staff by January I will be very disappointed. But if you are Ash, how do u tell the BIG Coach of the Year in 2014 that he isn't even good enough to be an offensive coordinator. I don't think Ash has it in him and he relies on Kill to much for other aspects of coaching
Agree on WIlliams. Reassign Kill to be an Associate HC / Position Coach and have Hobbs procure the money to bring in a capable OC and QB Coach. If today's game doesn't warrant this , nothing will.
 
Agree that Kill is not the answer on offense. I like him a lot in press conferences, but his attitude does not translate to performance on the field.

The series that got me was when we ran the ball twice for 8 yards and had 3rd and 2. Kill called a pass play that failed. That was wrong on so many fronts. First of all we had success running the ball. Second, we were trying to keep the offense on the field and run some clock. How could a pass play with Lewis, who hadn't shown anything all day, accomplish either of those things.

That was the series that told me that Kill is not the answer.
 
Guys, normally I'd be right with you, but Kill did try to open it up more today. Did you notice that we had a freshmen qb throwing to 3 freshman most of the game? The wideouts were hardly ever open and Lewis's passes were widely inaccurate. We could bring in Josh McDaniels and it may not be enough to fix the problem.

Kill's a smart guy. He knows what they need to fix the problem, and I think they will through recruiting, transfers and most importantly, development.

I have a lot of faith that 1 of Gio, Lewis, Chatman, Sitkowski or Flacco will rise to the top and be a winner for us. The young wideouts need a year of development.

If Kill can't show big time improvement next year, then start calling for his head.
 
I'm not sold on Kill as I'd prefer to move him into an Associate HC Gig / Position Coach and spend the money and bring in a capable OC......
That's basically what happened to Dennis Erickson at Utah, a figure I've brought up that can be somewhat analagous to Kill. He was co-OC for 1 year at Utah, it didn't work out too well and he was moved to AHC/RB coach where he stayed for 2 years before retiring last year.

I'm not going to say boot kill out but I've suggested co-OC when DM was hired and I've been suggesting it again with Kill. Forget about our anemic offense, it happens at schools with better offenses too. Urban Meyer has employed them in his career, TCU has them, I believe Peterson in Washington has them, Clemson has them and I'm sure others do who I can't remember off the top of my head.
 
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We do an average job blocking, horrendous job getting open, and mediocre job throwing the football. No the playcalling ain’t by any means great, but this offense flat out can’t execute either.
 
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We do an average job blocking, horrendous job getting open, and mediocre job throwing the football. No the playcalling ain’t by any means great, but this offense flat out can’t execute either.
So because these other aspects are suspect, we should accept suspect play calling?
 
The best chef can't make a cake without the right ingredients.
I'll agree with that but the chef has to go out and get the ingredients and in some cases when it can't be found find a substitute ingredient that'll work for now.

It doesn't mean problems don't exist but you have to find short term workarounds while also finding longer term fixes. I don't want to see the same problems over and over, again and again about how we don't have this or that for what seems like perpetuity. We've seen in before from Schiano days with we're young at this position or that, specifically OL then Flood DBs are young, lately it's no qb and WRs can't get open...I understand there can be issues but I don't like seeing them exist perpetually there have to fixes and workarounds.

It's just the nature of coaching, especially in college, you're gonna have injuries, you're gonna have changing faces, you're gonna have youth, etc..You have to figure out how to deal with it. The coaching staffs that can do that consistently are the good ones.
 
Assuming he returns, Kill will have to earn his paycheck. Another year of QB questions and a big hit at RB with the loss of Martin, Hicks, and Edwards. Blackshear is back but can he take the physical pounding of a feature back in the Big Ten? He’ll need a good offseason in the weight room yet keep his speed.

Then there is the receiver situation.....
 
We do an average job blocking, horrendous job getting open, and mediocre job throwing the football. No the playcalling ain’t by any means great, but this offense flat out can’t execute either.
That's it in a nutshell. Another new system and the lack of marque talent is the problem. Better players, who KNOW their assignments, will naturally result in better execution. Let's hope we can get to that point sooner rather than later. Impatience is already rearing it's ugly head among a large portion of the fan base.
 
We should have sent Blackshear to the endzone more he is speedy & Lewis has a cannon we had nothing to lose

We do NOTHING to stretch the field.. EVER. 2nd and 1.. just run it up the gut and get that 1st down.. woot!

I don't know how many highlights of other teams sending guys deep just to clear out coverage below and the crossing route gets hit where one missed tackle and you have a huge gain.

The offense is twice as good as last year... but 2X something close to ZERO is still too dang close to ZERO.

The talent situation is on Flood. But if you do not have a style of offense and defense that recruits will love to play in, they never come here.
 
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The offense is twice as good as last year... but 2X something close to ZERO is still too dang close to ZERO.
You've kind of put one of my worries in a different way. Will and can there be improvement? Sure but will it be enough? I don't know.
 
It is difficult to distribute blame under these circumstances. As frustrating as the offense has been, the staff is working with, probably, Mac level talent (besides RB). Gio would probably suffer the same fate that laviano and rettig suffered after they transferred. The staff was forced to throw 4 freshman wide receivers out there.
Ash and kill deserve at least one more year to find a competent qb.
 
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Kill is going to return as the OC , b ut hopefully he'll have coaching QBs taken away from him.
William might need to to be replaced as WR coach seeing before being made WR coach at RU his coaching career was mainly RBs after being Howards
WR coach in 2009.
Maybe replace him with someone capable of handling the QBs & WR as the passing game coordinator.
As it stands now, doesn't seem like Kill is capable of developing QBs and he and/ or Ash should delegate that responsibility to a new hire.
 
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I’m usually the most positive guy around and get called out for it a lot ... but we won the Purdue game because their receivers dropped every thing, and not because of our coverage. Just butter finger game. Can’t point to the O for that one. The only great true wins we had were Maryland (on their 4th string QB), and Illinois who is just bad bad bad on D so we ran all over them. Our D kept us in so many games through a half (truly all except Indiana, even the gauntlet ironically), but our inability to score on Offense is what kept us from being competitive.
 
Personally, give me a power-I, double tight ends, whatever. The game is cyclical and always evolving. The Pats were running power I last week.

Tired of this "this decade" stuff. We don't need to run some high power spread to be competitive. Wisconsin is competitive. I personally don't even like those offenses. They are in and out too quick and do nothing for time of possession and the defense.
 
All I know is our QB play has not been good all season and we don't have any receivers that can get separation and catch a ball. That is hard to believe. We should have at least one reliable QB by now and also should have receivers who are able to get open. They all came in with good reports. The excuse that they are freshman just doesn't cut it for me. We lose 3 decent running backs but Hicks has hardly been used for the last 2 years and Martin was hardly used this past season. He only had a bit over 200 yards rushing. He got so many more plays and had so much more success when Flood was coach. I just don't get it. I sure hope Ash finally gets a few receivers, a QB that can complete passes and a few new running backs as Blackshear can't do it all by himself.
 
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Personally, give me a power-I, double tight ends, whatever. The game is cyclical and always evolving. The Pats were running power I last week.

Tired of this "this decade" stuff. We don't need to run some high power spread to be competitive. Wisconsin is competitive. I personally don't even like those offenses. They are in and out too quick and do nothing for time of possession and the defense.

When do we start recruiting at Wisconsin's level?

I'd prefer a offense that does something for wins.
Can't see a scenario where Rutgers recruits talent to the level that lets us run over OSU PSU UM MSU.
 
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His offense might look a little bit better if we had receivers that got open and a QB who could complete pass.

Just sayin'.
 
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I'll agree with that but the chef has to go out and get the ingredients and in some cases when it can't be found find a substitute ingredient that'll work for now.

It doesn't mean problems don't exist but you have to find short term workarounds while also finding longer term fixes. I don't want to see the same problems over and over, again and again about how we don't have this or that for what seems like perpetuity. We've seen in before from Schiano days with we're young at this position or that, specifically OL then Flood DBs are young, lately it's no qb and WRs can't get open...I understand there can be issues but I don't like seeing them exist perpetually there have to fixes and workarounds.

It's just the nature of coaching, especially in college, you're gonna have injuries, you're gonna have changing faces, you're gonna have youth, etc..You have to figure out how to deal with it. The coaching staffs that can do that consistently are the good ones.

I'm not trying to shill for Ash, Kill or anyone on the staff, but your comments are applicable to a number of our conference mates as well and they've been competing in the Big 10 far longer than RU. Hell, your comments are true for any number of P5 schools and P5 wannabees. For RU and many other programs, the five star recruits are going to gravitate to schools like OSU and Bama RU needs to bring in the high three stars and four star recruits and develop them. Unfortunately that development doesn't happen overnight. The one thing the staff should be able to implement is playing with discipline. The service academies certainly don't have the biggest, fastest or most athletic players, but they know their assignments and don't commit penalties.
 
Kill's a smart guy. He knows what they need to fix the problem, and I think they will through recruiting, transfers and most importantly, development.

.

I hope you are right but I'm not seeing it. Was getting Edwards a big upgrade over Martin/Hicks? I don't think so. Martin's touches were reduced, Hicks didn't play, and Kill gushed that Edwards will play on Sunday. Arguably, Kill "fixed" a non-existent problem and did nothing measurable with the QBs and WRs.
 
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I hope you are right but I'm not seeing it. Was getting Edwards a big upgrade over Martin/Hicks? I don't think so. Martin's touches were reduced, Hicks didn't play, and Kill gushed that Edwards will play on Sunday. Arguably, Kill "fixed" a non-existent problem and did nothing measurable with the QBs and WRs.

There were issues with both Martin and Hicks last year.

I would not say there were non-existent problems at running back coming into the season.
 
I'm not trying to shill for Ash, Kill or anyone on the staff, but your comments are applicable to a number of our conference mates as well and they've been competing in the Big 10 far longer than RU. Hell, your comments are true for any number of P5 schools and P5 wannabees. For RU and many other programs, the five star recruits are going to gravitate to schools like OSU and Bama RU needs to bring in the high three stars and four star recruits and develop them. Unfortunately that development doesn't happen overnight. The one thing the staff should be able to implement is playing with discipline. The service academies certainly don't have the biggest, fastest or most athletic players, but they know their assignments and don't commit penalties.
I'm not shilling for them or against them really, although I'd like to see a co-OC. I'm talking about what I like to see with any coach and staff and you're right it's applicable to anyone and that's my point. So of course I hope we have it in our staff.

It's not even recruiting I care about if you see my posts, as you'll rarely ever see me comment or complain about recruits. I don't even care about the rankings if you've seen my whole tiered pyramid explanation. I'm not looking for 5 stars or what have you. I'm looking for coaches who can identify, find and develop players that fit the system they run and be effective. It can be through high school recruits, transfers, grad transfers whatever. I just want to see problems worked around and eventually fixed and not be a constant issue. That's the job of any coaching staff be it ours or someone else's.
 
Appreciate the great posts in this thread - I posted similar concerns right after the Purdue game and you would have thought I shot someone on 5th Ave

I cant imagine a scenario where Ash ask Kill to take a co-coordinator job. His MO was to get here and get time of possession in our favor - like the Washington game and keep the scores more competitive. Washington is 6-8 points away from making the playoffs and 14 points away from being undefeated, so they were as good as advertised, and we controlled time of possession by 38 -22 against a top 10 defensive line.

My concern is what happened in the latter half of the season. We had the same offensive line blocking (sans Maetti who has a great future), so while you can make a case that they were inconsistent this year, they are at least average BIG caliber. We have a RB who by most commentators will be playing on Sunday and 3 other backs who were all serviceable BIG backs and we had several heralded receivers,all of whom regressed as the year went on. Gio was healthy with the exception of 2 games and we all saw what he did last year against Minnesota and Indiana when he was healthy - a 122 passer rating with 220 and 258 yards respectively. There is no doubt that Gio is a smart kid, had better weapons this year and supposedly a coach who is light years ahead of Mehringer, how was he allowed to regress so much.

The only answer I can think of, is play-calling. When you are constantly putting your QB in bad situations, his numbers are going to suffer. When you play smash mouth football lining up against Penn St and Michigan St and the entire stadium knows that you are running up the gut on 1st down, and the majority of the QB's attempts are 3rd and long, and with an O-line that is supposedly better at run blocking than pass blocking, how much blame can you give the QB. At the very least, as a few have suggested,. we need a QB coach/passing game coordinator given that we will have our best QB room ever next year but with a lot of youth. A passing game coordinator can work with route running and communication, both of which seemed to be MIA under Jerry Kill this year. More importantly, if we supposedly have all this great team speed next year (Melton, Hayek's, Wormley, **JONES*** Blackshear Lacewell Izien Bailey), put them in a position to make plays - how many jet sweeps, mis-directions, tunnel screens etc did we run this year. It will be a long time, if ever, that we recruit at the level of a Wisconsin or Iowa, and that type of line recruiting is whats needed to compete with a Jerry Kill offense. In lieu of that, Rutgers needs to re-invent themselves, and literally take elements of what Mehringer wanted to do last year but didnt have the players and a bit of what Kill wanted to do this year in time of possession, but was so predictable that he turned our offense into a liability

The following stats, which are again, the MAIN reason why Kill was bought in show why he needs to either hire a co-coordinator or be out by next year if he cant fix it - TIME OF POSSESSION and PLAYS RUN


Purdue 32 minutes and 85 plays from scrimmage
Rutgers 28 minutes and 55 plays from scrimmage

Michigan 37 minutes and 71 plays from scrimmage
Rutgers 23 minutes and 47 plays from scrimmage

Maryland 31 minutes and 69 plays from scrimmage
Rutgers 29 minutes and 64 plays from scrimmage

Penn St 28 minutes and 52 plays from scrimmage
Rutgers 32 minutes and 59 plays from scrimmage

Indiana 33 minutes and 71 plays from scrimmage
Rutgers 27 minutes and 57 plays from scrimmage


Mich St 48 minutes and 89 plays from scrimmage
Rutgers 12 minutes and 33 plays from scrimmage



Based on what Jerry Kill was bought here to do, one would say that the Purdue game was actually a disaster and if not for all their penalties and drops, it would have been an easy blow-out for Purdue. The Maryland and Penn St games - especially the first half of Penn St, left me feeling more hopeful that we had turned the corner but the last 2 games of the season really exposed the vanilla playbook that he was using and anyone who saw just a few hours of film, knew how to game plan for what was coming.

I have not once been in the camp that Ash should be in a hot seat, and fully agrees that he needs at least 2 more years to be judged and those expectations do NOT include a Bowl next year unless we find a fix on offense. However, we will have a top 6 BIG defense next year, Ash showed me a lot by turning special teams from a liability into an asset, so with the CONTINUITY that 95% of this board craves, the offense HAS TO BE NEXT, and he doesnt get a pass next year

Here are some of the following that I need to see

a) new WR coach who is a excellent recruiter (remember, Jerry Kill mainly does on-campus recruiting due to health issues)
b) QB coach/passing game coordinator
c) potentially 1 or 2 grad transfers to shore up the offensive line or a WR/RB similar to Gus/Duwop
d) Ash's play it safe and keep the game close for recruiting HAS TO CHANGE. I still maintain that he lost this team when he punted from the Indiana side of the field on 4th and short in a 17-0 game with everything on the line. If Ash doesnt believe in his team, why should they play hard fo him. His conservative use of the clock and unwillingness to take risks leaves the defense exposed and as we have seen in most games, we can stay competitive until the second half, when our defense just gets gassed

in 2018, he should not be coaching to keep it close and show progress to recruits so I believe all of the above are critical. If he chooses to put all his eggs in the Jerry Kill basket, then he has to live with the decision. i think Ash is a good man who has a great work ethic and is smart enough to keep evolving and making changes. How he handles the offense in 2018 and probably 2019 will dictate how much longer he will stay a Head Coach
 
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What could he have done differently? We have QBs who arnt ready, WRs who arnt ready, TEs who miss blocking assignments every 4 plays, and teams who stack the box.
And that's going to change next year minus our three best every down backs?
 
Kill coached like a guy who hadn’t been an OC in 23 years and never been one in P5, nevermind the B1G East.
 
Kill coached like a guy who hadn’t been an OC in 23 years and never been one in P5, nevermind the B1G East.
Just to correct sort of and I've mentioned this before but while not technically an OC he's called plays as HC throughout up until his time at Minnesota. At NIU he had one year with a top 15 offense as well.
 
This year the offense was statistically the same as last year. One of the worst in college football.

So what's the common thread between this year and last? The offensive coordinators have changed. The personnel did not (or, only slightly).

Enough said.
 
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Appreciate the great posts in this thread - I posted similar concerns right after the Purdue game and you would have thought I shot someone on 5th Ave

I cant imagine a scenario where Ash ask Kill to take a co-coordinator job. His MO was to get here and get time of possession in our favor - like the Washington game and keep the scores more competitive. Washington is 6-8 points away from making the playoffs and 14 points away from being undefeated, so they were as good as advertised, and we controlled time of possession by 38 -22 against a top 10 defensive line.

My concern is what happened in the latter half of the season. We had the same offensive line blocking (sans Maetti who has a great future), so while you can make a case that they were inconsistent this year, they are at least average BIG caliber. We have a RB who by most commentators will be playing on Sunday and 3 other backs who were all serviceable BIG backs and we had several heralded receivers,all of whom regressed as the year went on. Gio was healthy with the exception of 2 games and we all saw what he did last year against Minnesota and Indiana when he was healthy - a 122 passer rating with 220 and 258 yards respectively. There is no doubt that Gio is a smart kid, had better weapons this year and supposedly a coach who is light years ahead of Mehringer, how was he allowed to regress so much.

The only answer I can think of, is play-calling. When you are constantly putting your QB in bad situations, his numbers are going to suffer. When you play smash mouth football lining up against Penn St and Michigan St and the entire stadium knows that you are running up the gut on 1st down, and the majority of the QB's attempts are 3rd and long, and with an O-line that is supposedly better at run blocking than pass blocking, how much blame can you give the QB. At the very least, as a few have suggested,. we need a QB coach/passing game coordinator given that we will have our best QB room ever next year but with a lot of youth. A passing game coordinator can work with route running and communication, both of which seemed to be MIA under Jerry Kill this year. More importantly, if we supposedly have all this great team speed next year (Melton, Hayek's, Wormley, **JONES*** Blackshear Lacewell Izien Bailey), put them in a position to make plays - how many jet sweeps, mis-directions, tunnel screens etc did we run this year. It will be a long time, if ever, that we recruit at the level of a Wisconsin or Iowa, and that type of line recruiting is whats needed to compete with a Jerry Kill offense. In lieu of that, Rutgers needs to re-invent themselves, and literally take elements of what Mehringer wanted to do last year but didnt have the players and a bit of what Kill wanted to do this year in time of possession, but was so predictable that he turned our offense into a liability

The following stats, which are again, the MAIN reason why Kill was bought in show why he needs to either hire a co-coordinator or be out by next year if he cant fix it - TIME OF POSSESSION and PLAYS RUN


Purdue 32 minutes and 85 plays from scrimmage
Rutgers 28 minutes and 55 plays from scrimmage

Michigan 37 minutes and 71 plays from scrimmage
Rutgers 23 minutes and 47 plays from scrimmage

Maryland 31 minutes and 69 plays from scrimmage
Rutgers 29 minutes and 64 plays from scrimmage

Penn St 28 minutes and 52 plays from scrimmage
Rutgers 32 minutes and 59 plays from scrimmage

Indiana 33 minutes and 71 plays from scrimmage
Rutgers 27 minutes and 57 plays from scrimmage


Mich St 48 minutes and 89 plays from scrimmage
Rutgers 12 minutes and 33 plays from scrimmage



Based on what Jerry Kill was bought here to do, one would say that the Purdue game was actually a disaster and if not for all their penalties and drops, it would have been an easy blow-out for Purdue. The Maryland and Penn St games - especially the first half of Penn St, left me feeling more hopeful that we had turned the corner but the last 2 games of the season really exposed the vanilla playbook that he was using and anyone who saw just a few hours of film, knew how to game plan for what was coming.

I have not once been in the camp that Ash should be in a hot seat, and fully agrees that he needs at least 2 more years to be judged and those expectations do NOT include a Bowl next year unless we find a fix on offense. However, we will have a top 6 BIG defense next year, Ash showed me a lot by turning special teams from a liability into an asset, so with the CONTINUITY that 95% of this board craves, the offense HAS TO BE NEXT, and he doesnt get a pass next year

Here are some of the following that I need to see

a) new WR coach who is a excellent recruiter (remember, Jerry Kill mainly does on-campus recruiting due to health issues)
b) QB coach/passing game coordinator
c) potentially 1 or 2 grad transfers to shore up the offensive line or a WR/RB similar to Gus/Duwop
d) Ash's play it safe and keep the game close for recruiting HAS TO CHANGE. I still maintain that he lost this team when he punted from the Indiana side of the field on 4th and short in a 17-0 game with everything on the line. If Ash doesnt believe in his team, why should they play hard fo him. His conservative use of the clock and unwillingness to take risks leaves the defense exposed and as we have seen in most games, we can stay competitive until the second half, when our defense just gets gassed

in 2018, he should not be coaching to keep it close and show progress to recruits so I believe all of the above are critical. If he chooses to put all his eggs in the Jerry Kill basket, then he has to live with the decision. i think Ash is a good man who has a great work ethic and is smart enough to keep evolving and making changes. How he handles the offense in 2018 and probably 2019 will dictate how much longer he will stay a Head Coach

I posted this in another thread, the Time of Possession stat is a little misleading;

Another funny stat, is time of possession. People thought Ash and Kill purposely had gameplans to shorten the game, but honestly, 3 and Out Drew Mehringer and his Offense somehow had a more ball control offense;

2017

12 games, 342 TOP, Average of 28.5 per game.

Last year

12 games, 375 TOP, Average of 31 per game.
 
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