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Jimmy V Classic--We have been in only once.....

Groz

Groz

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Jul 28, 2001
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I want to know who continues to drop the ball in NOT getting us into the Jimmy V Classic at least a couple of times over the years. This year will be Connecticut's 4th time playing in it and we have played in it ONE time against Florida in 1999.

Who is responsible for us not being in it at least a few times in over 25 years?? Is it our coaches fault or our athletic directors fault over the years? I find it hard to believe that with Bob Lloyd having been on the board of the Jimmy V foundation and with Dick Vitale being connected to it, that we have not been asked more than the one time.

The Jimmy V Classic was played at the Meadowlands until 2002 and has been at Madison Square Garden since then.

I think it is a disgrace that Rutgers has only been in it 1 time.

Best of Luck,
Groz
 
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Groz said:
I want to know who continues to drop the ball in NOT getting us into the Jimmy V Classic at least a couple of times over the years. This year will be Connecticut's 4th time playing in it and we have played in it ONE time against Florida in 1999.

Who is responsible for us not being in it at least a few times in over 25 years?? Is it our coaches fault or our athletic directors fault over the years? I find it hard to believe that with Bob Lloyd having been on the board of the Jimmy V foundation and with Dick Vitale being connected to it, that we have not been asked more than the one time.

The Jimmy V Classic was played at the Meadowlands until 2002 and has been at Madison Square Garden since then.

I think it is a disgrace that Rutgers has only been in it 1 time.

Best of Luck,
Groz
Click to expand...

Who is responsible? Maybe because we have stunk since 1999. And that performance against Florida was a stinker for the ages . I remember being there in the upper level at Brendan Byrne aka continental aka izod or whatever.
 
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MadRU said:
Should be every year. At least be two of the teams in it
Click to expand...


RU / NC State should rotate every other to give the tourney the grit / reality it needs .& deserves.

Jimmies' story about being a 1st time coach and reading a book by Vince Lombardi is CLASSIC.

I remember him in 1967 (many on the West Coast thought he was better than Lloyd). Also remember in fall of '67 when Jimmy V was the frosh coach.

He was one of a kind.

MO
 
Groz - kudos to you for your question last night. Relevant question and it should have been handled better.
 
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BigEastPhil said:
Groz - kudos to you for your question last night. Relevant question and it should have been handled better.
Click to expand...

Thanks Phil. I will stand by that as good as I think our coaches are, I don't think it helps us by scheduling such a weak out of conference schedule.

I like Brandin as a coach and person, but I was pretty sure that he would give Syracuse as the example of a team that only plays at home the first part of the year.

Playing tougher teams make you tougher, both physically and mentally, and energizes your fan base. Playing cupcakes and winning gives a false sense of your team being better than they are. And if you lose to any of them, it is very deflating.

Best of Luck,
Groz
 
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Phil- can you elaborate on the question asked last night by Groz?? I assume it was a question on this jimmy v subject/scheduling. Curious to hear the answer and spin they gave

Thanks
 
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Groz said:
Thanks Phil. I will stand by that as good as I think our coaches are, I don't think it helps us by scheduling such a weak out of conference schedule.

I like Brandin as a coach and person, but I was pretty sure that he would give Syracuse as the example of a team that only plays at home the first part of the year.

Playing tougher teams make you tougher, both physically and mentally, and energizes your fan base. Playing cupcakes and winning gives a false sense of your team being better than they are. And if you lose to any of them, it is very deflating.

Best of Luck,
Groz
Click to expand...
And every other league is going to 20 conference games including ACC, Big East and Pac 12.
 
I think it would be good if we were in the Valvano classic every other year as well. It would be nice going to MSG for a big game,
 
Groz said:
Thanks Phil. I will stand by that as good as I think our coaches are, I don't think it helps us by scheduling such a weak out of conference schedule.

I like Brandin as a coach and person, but I was pretty sure that he would give Syracuse as the example of a team that only plays at home the first part of the year.

Playing tougher teams make you tougher, both physically and mentally, and energizes your fan base. Playing cupcakes and winning gives a false sense of your team being better than they are. And if you lose to any of them, it is very deflating.

Best of Luck,
Groz
Click to expand...
Although I agree with you as a fan, the problem as Brandin said is that 23-24 games are already accounted for so that leaves only 6-8 other games. If you play in these tournament games, which I would love and likely go to, if you lose 4 or 6, you have absolutely no chance for post season, even if it makes us tougher where we go 10-10 in the league. It is a difficult dilemma and would like playing more Power 5-6 games , maybe a home and home with Temple or UConn in alternating years , I can understand Coach trying to get some wins and start slower because of how young we are. If we had a team of juniors and seniors making up 8 of our top players, that would be the year I would try for the tournaments .
 
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I guess there are questions about whether RU football and whether the Schiano era is viewed as successful in comparison to other era's like Graber, Anderson etc.

There's no doubt that the late 80s to early 90s teams could've done very well in the 2005 to 2011 era of RU scheduling.

In hoops, I don't quite understand how you don't play in these MSG tournaments but if RU has a winning season and fans show up vs Michigan in early February, maybe MSG revisits how they view RU.
 
goru7 said:
Although I agree with you as a fan, the problem as Brandin said is that 23-24 games are already accounted for so that leaves only 6-8 other games. If you play in these tournament games, which I would love and likely go to, if you lose 4 or 6, you have absolutely no chance for post season, even if it makes us tougher where we go 10-10 in the league. It is a difficult dilemma and would like playing more Power 5-6 games , maybe a home and home with Temple or UConn in alternating years , I can understand Coach trying to get some wins and start slower because of how young we are. If we had a team of juniors and seniors making up 8 of our top players, that would be the year I would try for the tournaments .
Click to expand...

Lets see next 2 years ..no excuses on scheduling
 
goru7 said:
Although I agree with you as a fan, the problem as Brandin said is that 23-24 games are already accounted for so that leaves only 6-8 other games. If you play in these tournament games, which I would love and likely go to, if you lose 4 or 6, you have absolutely no chance for post season, even if it makes us tougher where we go 10-10 in the league. It is a difficult dilemma and would like playing more Power 5-6 games , maybe a home and home with Temple or UConn in alternating years , I can understand Coach trying to get some wins and start slower because of how young we are. If we had a team of juniors and seniors making up 8 of our top players, that would be the year I would try for the tournaments .
Click to expand...

Our scheduling strategy has not worked since 1991. We should try my strategy and maybe things will turn around. Fans get excited for BIG games and when the fans get excited, there is always the chance that we can win that game(See Seton Hall 2 years ago). And 1 win can become 2 or 3(See the Big Ten Tournament 2 years ago)

In playing these big out of conference games, Maybe we can get THAT ONE recruit to sign that sees we are playing UConn, Oklahoma, the Hawaii Thanksgiving tournament, etc. Then maybe that one recruit will have his 2 buddies from his AAU team join him that year or for the next year and then we are on our way......

Rutgers has a great fan base(or at least a potential great fan base that would grow exponentially) that has shown the ability to come out in droves for big games at MSG for the NIT and years before in the late 70's for regular season games against 5th ranked Cinci among many others.

It made me sick that yesterday's Jimmy V Classic was basically an infomercial for UConn.

Things have not gone right for us for almost 30 years. It is time to change things up. I know our coaches will be afraid to do this, but maybe it is time to change things up and schedule up, rather than be afraid........

Mark my words. Greg Schiano might not have been the best game day coach in the past, BUT, he will get it done at Rutgers this time around. The excitement that will build every time he gets a better recruit to sign on or he gets a few better transfer portal guys to come here, will bring more and more excitement every day. He will be a tireless worker. I think Pike is also a tireless worker, but until we sign that 1st Big recruit, we will keep spinning our wheels and have to keep saying, "wait until next year".........

Lastly, Texas Tech lost most of their team that went to the NCAA final last year. Chris Beard, does not rest on last year. He regroups(brings in new players) and he beats #1 Louisville at the Garden. That should be us playing in the Garden when Jimmy Valvano was a Scarlet Knight and a favorite son.

Best of Luck,
Groz
 
Groz said:
Our scheduling strategy has not worked since 1991. We should try my strategy and maybe things will turn around. Fans get excited for BIG games and when the fans get excited, there is always the chance that we can win that game(See Seton Hall 2 years ago). And 1 win can become 2 or 3(See the Big Ten Tournament 2 years ago)

In playing these big out of conference games, Maybe we can get THAT ONE recruit to sign that sees we are playing UConn, Oklahoma, the Hawaii Thanksgiving tournament, etc. Then maybe that one recruit will have his 2 buddies from his AAU team join him that year or for the next year and then we are on our way......

Rutgers has a great fan base(or at least a potential great fan base that would grow exponentially) that has shown the ability to come out in droves for big games at MSG for the NIT and years before in the late 70's for regular season games against 5th ranked Cinci among many others.

It made me sick that yesterday's Jimmy V Classic was basically an infomercial for UConn.

Things have not gone right for us for almost 30 years. It is time to change things up. I know our coaches will be afraid to do this, but maybe it is time to change things up and schedule up, rather than be afraid........

Mark my words. Greg Schiano might not have been the best game day coach in the past, BUT, he will get it done at Rutgers this time around. The excitement that will build every time he gets a better recruit to sign on or he gets a few better transfer portal guys to come here, will bring more and more excitement every day. He will be a tireless worker. I think Pike is also a tireless worker, but until we sign that 1st Big recruit, we will keep spinning our wheels and have to keep saying, "wait until next year".........

Lastly, Texas Tech lost most of their team that went to the NCAA final last year. Chris Beard, does not rest on last year. He regroups(brings in new players) and he beats #1 Louisville at the Garden. That should be us playing in the Garden when Jimmy Valvano was a Scarlet Knight and a favorite son.

Best of Luck,
Groz
Click to expand...
First of all we are never being invited to Maui for Thanksgiving. Brandin told you the other night that his Pitt team finished first in the Big East and it took them 5 years to be invited. So we have to finish top half of the Big 10 for 5 straight years , then our national perception will change to be invited. I do agree that we can or should lobby to get into the lesser island tournaments against decent teams and get away from the Garden State Showcase we have been doing the last 3 years. Bahamas is becoming a top heavy tourney now like Maui, as UNC, Gonzaga, Michigan , Iowa State, Seton Hall were the top draws. Something in between should be looked into so I agree with you there. However, it is not Rutgers just deciding to do it, but it is the tourney sponsors agreeing to invite you.
 
goru7 said:
First of all we are never being invited to Maui for Thanksgiving. Brandin told you the other night that his Pitt team finished first in the Big East and it took them 5 years to be invited. So we have to finish top half of the Big 10 for 5 straight years , then our national perception will change to be invited. I do agree that we can or should lobby to get into the lesser island tournaments against decent teams and get away from the Garden State Showcase we have been doing the last 3 years. Bahamas is becoming a top heavy tourney now like Maui, as UNC, Gonzaga, Michigan , Iowa State, Seton Hall were the top draws. Something in between should be looked into so I agree with you there. However, it is not Rutgers just deciding to do it, but it is the tourney sponsors agreeing to invite you.
Click to expand...

They want teams whose fanbases will watch on TV and/or travel to the tournament.

Rutgers is also at a disadvantage being in the Big Ten. These tournaments can only take one team per conference and even a team like Nebraska is a better choice because their fans travel.
 
Think the criticism of the OOC schedule is comical especially since B1G was the first to go to 20. We play SHU every year. We have always played the ACC challenge. We usually play a local school, Monmouth, NJIT, FDU, etc. Really doesn't leave too many games. I personally would love to see Princeton for tradition sake and to get prepared for all kinds of tempo.

I have absolutely no problems with the schedule. I think the sole issue is if you want RU in the beginning of the season tourneys.
 
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BigEastPhil said:
Shill - Unless proven otherwise, Pike and Schiano are the same when it comes to OOC Scheduling.
Click to expand...

When you have a tough conference schedule every year, you need to find some wins elsewhere. Getting ones ass kicked game after game is not a great strategy.
 
if the coaching staff is truly putting out comments about not wanting to schedule tough, its INCREDIBLY disappointing to hear
 
Princeton goes out and plays a tough schedule. Go 0-5. Finally win in Game 6 and then lose to 2 bad teams after that and fall to 1-7.

Not saying Princeton is any good, but it doesn’t always work out. It is possible they lost to Drexel and Monmouth because their confidence was shot.

They lost by 2 against Arizona State
 
Groz said:
Our scheduling strategy has not worked since 1991. We should try my strategy and maybe things will turn around. Fans get excited for BIG games and when the fans get excited, there is always the chance that we can win that game(See Seton Hall 2 years ago). And 1 win can become 2 or 3(See the Big Ten Tournament 2 years ago)

In playing these big out of conference games, Maybe we can get THAT ONE recruit to sign that sees we are playing UConn, Oklahoma, the Hawaii Thanksgiving tournament, etc. Then maybe that one recruit will have his 2 buddies from his AAU team join him that year or for the next year and then we are on our way......

Rutgers has a great fan base(or at least a potential great fan base that would grow exponentially) that has shown the ability to come out in droves for big games at MSG for the NIT and years before in the late 70's for regular season games against 5th ranked Cinci among many others.

It made me sick that yesterday's Jimmy V Classic was basically an infomercial for UConn.

Things have not gone right for us for almost 30 years. It is time to change things up. I know our coaches will be afraid to do this, but maybe it is time to change things up and schedule up, rather than be afraid........

Mark my words. Greg Schiano might not have been the best game day coach in the past, BUT, he will get it done at Rutgers this time around. The excitement that will build every time he gets a better recruit to sign on or he gets a few better transfer portal guys to come here, will bring more and more excitement every day. He will be a tireless worker. I think Pike is also a tireless worker, but until we sign that 1st Big recruit, we will keep spinning our wheels and have to keep saying, "wait until next year".........

Lastly, Texas Tech lost most of their team that went to the NCAA final last year. Chris Beard, does not rest on last year. He regroups(brings in new players) and he beats #1 Louisville at the Garden. That should be us playing in the Garden when Jimmy Valvano was a Scarlet Knight and a favorite son.

Best of Luck,
Groz
Click to expand...
The thought that coaches are afraid of scheduling tough games is foreign to me. You don't become a Division I coach in a high major conference by being afraid...of anything.
 
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We should play in Jimmy V once every few years for OOC Scheduling; respect to a man who is an alumni of RU and to play at MSG.

More so than us, if any team has a complaint about the Jimmy V, it's NC State....they should play in this game periodically as well.

Actually RU vs NC State makes too much sense for the Jimmy V or for the ACC Challenge.
 
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Russ Wood said:
The thought that coaches are afraid of scheduling tough games is foreign to me. You don't become a Division I coach in a high major conference by being afraid...of anything.
Click to expand...

Maybe it is foreign to you, but there are coaches that are afraid for their jobs and make the schedule so that they can "cushion" the wins. Not saying that is the case with Rutgers, but the rankings of our pre-season scheduled teams pretty much always stinks.

Best of Luck,
Groz
 
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Groz said:
Maybe it is foreign to you, but there are coaches that are afraid for their jobs and make the schedule so that they can "cushion" the wins. Not saying that is the case with Rutgers, but the rankings of our pre-season scheduled teams pretty much always stinks.

Best of Luck,
Groz
Click to expand...

Most athletic directors aren't dumb. They see a 12-1 (or whatever) non conference record and their associate athletic director for MBB will be able to tell them if the schedule was soft or not so making a schedule that "cushion the wins" (I like that phrase) is not going to save a head coach in 2019.

Teams get scheduled for various reasons. Two off the top of my head are that it is because a team runs some actions on offense or does something on defense that Rutgers will face during the B1G.

Most fans want their programs to schedule tougher games, but then if they come out of the OOC schedule 6-6 some fans complain that the OOC was too difficult and now the team has to win the conference tournament to have any hope of getting into the NCAA Tournament.

Scheduling is part art and part science, although I don't know how scheduling Caldwell fits into that.
 
Russ Wood said:
Most athletic directors aren't dumb. They see a 12-1 (or whatever) non conference record and their associate athletic director for MBB will be able to tell them if the schedule was soft or not so making a schedule that "cushion the wins" (I like that phrase) is not going to save a head coach in 2019.

Teams get scheduled for various reasons. Two off the top of my head are that it is because a team runs some actions on offense or does something on defense that Rutgers will face during the B1G.

Most fans want their programs to schedule tougher games, but then if they come out of the OOC schedule 6-6 some fans complain that the OOC was too difficult and now the team has to win the conference tournament to have any hope of getting into the NCAA Tournament.

Scheduling is part art and part science, although I don't know how scheduling Caldwell fits into that.
Click to expand...

Russ, I agree with what you are saying. The main problem I have is, let's say Rutgers reaches 18 or 19 wins total(very wishful thinking) and we do not get picked for the NCAA, it will squarely come back to not having a tough enough OOC schedule. Playing Caldwell does NOT benefit us in any way whatsoever.

That is why we might as well schedule it tougher, because if we can beat 1 or 2 of those tougher teams(especially at home), it makes it much easier for the committee to pick us. There is nothing worse than thinking your team has a decent chance to get in, and you are left off(like Penn State 2 years ago because of their schedule not being tough enough).

Best of Luck,
Groz
 
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Groz said:
Maybe it is foreign to you, but there are coaches that are afraid for their jobs and make the schedule so that they can "cushion" the wins. Not saying that is the case with Rutgers, but the rankings of our pre-season scheduled teams pretty much always stinks.

Best of Luck,
Groz
Click to expand...
Exactly. Coaches are under so much pressure to win and they use their win loss records as factors to negotiate a new contract or try for a new job.
 
RutgersMO said:
RU / NC State should rotate every other to give the tourney the grit / reality it needs .& deserves.

Jimmies' story about being a 1st time coach and reading a book by Vince Lombardi is CLASSIC.

I remember him in 1967 (many on the West Coast thought he was better than Lloyd). Also remember in fall of '67 when Jimmy V was the frosh coach.

He was one of a kind.

MO
Click to expand...
 
RutgersMO said:
RU / NC State should rotate every other to give the tourney the grit / reality it needs .& deserves.

Jimmies' story about being a 1st time coach and reading a book by Vince Lombardi is CLASSIC.

I remember him in 1967 (many on the West Coast thought he was better than Lloyd). Also remember in fall of '67 when Jimmy V was the frosh coach.

He was one of a kind.

MO
Click to expand...
I graduated from RC 1968 and saw both play many time. Lloyd was a 1st Team AA and a great outside shooter (scored over 2,000 points in 3 years) and had the best free throw average in the country. Valvano was a solid point guard who set up many of Lloyd's shots, but only averaged around 10 points per game. No comparison!
 
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