And that's the kind of team and effort that fills the RAC and makes it a place other teams hate visit. Next thing you know, you have a team others hate to play... in a building they dread. Just like old times.
lack of conditioning/work habits
- Thread starter RUtimes5
- Start date
And that's the kind of team and effort that fills the RAC and makes it a place other teams hate visit. Next thing you know, you have a team others hate to play... in a building they dread. Just like old times.
Way it was under Gary Waters. Mulcahy canning Waters to hire FHJ set this program back so badly that only now are we seeing light at the end of the tunnel. Mulcahy had zero sense about basketball. Zero. We would have done better with a chimp from the circus in place of that jack.
TL
TL
I would bet any amount of money that's not the case. In fact, I would not really be surprised if Pikiell & Co can do it this coming season.
Rutgers was 6-25. Getting to .500 means winning roughly ten more games this season. I like your spunk, but save your money.
While Waters' teams filled the RAC for big conference games, there were constant whispers about him looking for opportunities to get out of NJ and back to the Midwest. Even if he wasn't fired he likely would have left soon after that time.
Now the hiring of FHJ is a separate issue. Obviously, he turned out to be assistant coach material. ;)
As far as Rutgers getting to .500 next year....with any reasonable coaching, I think they were a ten win team last year. So you're really only looking to improve 5 games this year, not 10. I'm not predicting it, but I think it's doable.
Never heard of Waters looking to go back to the Midwest, but that doesn't mean he wasn't and others knew about it.
But a lot of fans that were around when Gary was HC forget there were fans that wanted to replace him before Mulcahy tried to fire him and wound up paying Waters to resign.
Gary Waters wasn't universally love towards the end of his tenure, just that what came afterwards makes RU MBB fans look back on the Waters years with fondness.
there were some who wanted Waters fired in year 3...for only making the ncaa bubble twice but settling for the NIT
Year 4 had a bigger effect:
10-19 (2-14 conference)
But even I feel the way Gary was treated wrong by bringing in Freddie at the start of year 5 was not right.Writing was on the wall that Waters was gone and there were RU MBB fans that didn't mind.
Not making the NCAAs and 3rd NIT bid in 5 years but 2 losing seasons in that 5 sealed Waters fate, though I thought his winning record might save him but 1st round NIT loss and Hill waiting had Mulcahy make the move
In hindsight RU MBB suffered because Hill proved to be career assistant material not a winner as HC.
you are right that 4th season with terrible chemistry and bad relationship between Shields and Douby doomed Waters. Really no excuse for that deplorable of a season but he was bouncing back the following season with another NIT run. Waters would have been up and down and for the fanbase expectations at that time wouldnt be good enough
I agree, also add that it was that season that his recruiting really hurt him. Adrian Hill got hurt after Axani and Laminzana left and we were really in trouble down low. Inglis, Bailey, etc. was not cutting it.
Understandably Mulcahy had a Villanova mindset and no background as a Div-1 AD. A typical Rutgers provincial hire. I do not have a major problem with Mulcahy, but an up-and-coming Div-1 AD would have been a way sounder choice.
As much as Mulcahy was clueless when it came to basketball, he set us on the right path from a football perspective to put us in position to capitalize on conference realignment.
At least the Gary Waters days had the RAC rocking although I do remember things like blowing a 20 point lead against cuse in the second half bc the team looked absolutely clueless trying to break a full court press.
Hopefully we finally found a hard working coach that can do it all. Recruit develop players and coach
Hopefully we finally found a hard working coach that can do it all. Recruit develop players and coach
That Syracuse loss was one of the most disappointing losses that I have experienced watching RU basketball since 1971. We looked clueless against their press. It is still a horrible memory.
Yea I almost lost my mind. It was a scarring memory. I called my dad after the game in disbelief at how unprepared they looked in breaking the press. I just couldn't believe it
and Douby still had a chance to win it at the end with a 3 which I think went in and out
If Gary Waters had FHJ on his staff from the beginning the team would have had more success. It seemed that recruiting was an issue with Waters. He had brought his whole staff from Kent State went he got the job and I don't think they ever got a foothold in in recruiting here.
Syracuse's press has been impressive against far better teams than Rutgers. Like against Virginia this year. Syracuse's press got them to the Final Four. And you can't say that Virginia was unprepared. That team is all about disciplined play and preparation, but even the Wahoos came unraveled.
I'm seeing a bunch of revisionist history here.
Waters was fired solely on the fact that they believed he had reached his recruiting plateau, and they didn't want to lose FHJ to another program. The snow storm was just a cop out by the university, just like every other time (until recently) that they use something happening as an excuse to get rid of a guy. Waters was a very good coach when it came to defense, rebounding, toughness, etc. And he was smart enough to know that, with shooters like Douby/Shields/Wooten/etc., we were never out of a game if we were hitting.
That being said, I wasn't upset at all that we made the move. I just wish it had a better outcome, but it was the right move to make.
Waters was fired solely on the fact that they believed he had reached his recruiting plateau, and they didn't want to lose FHJ to another program. The snow storm was just a cop out by the university, just like every other time (until recently) that they use something happening as an excuse to get rid of a guy. Waters was a very good coach when it came to defense, rebounding, toughness, etc. And he was smart enough to know that, with shooters like Douby/Shields/Wooten/etc., we were never out of a game if we were hitting.
That being said, I wasn't upset at all that we made the move. I just wish it had a better outcome, but it was the right move to make.
I was a little surprised by the Waters/Hill move at the time, but I wasn't paying that close attention to basketball coaching staff decisions at that point. I was excited by the recruits FHJ brought in and thought our prospects were improving, but then they started transferring out and the on-court product wasn't getting any better. In hindsight, FHJ just wasn't HC material.
Yup. Was in the upper bleachers for that one. It was a struggle just to bring the ball up court.
Mulcahy looked like such a weasel in the whole Waters affair. After the run to the NIT finals, and the attendant spirit and publicity that brought, he was afraid Waters would jump to some chimerical midwest job, so he extended his current contract a couple of years. After going 10-19 the following year--was that the year Douby made Shields' life miserable--Mulcahy had buyer's remorse. He hired FHJ, convinced the guy could coach though various lesser programs had looked at him before and moved on, and installed him as GW's lead assistant--clearly he would get the job at the end of the year. In January, GW was to be honored at Kent; fly back and coach RU the following day. Unexpected snowstorm grounded him in Ohio, and FHJ stepped in and RU won. Ignited a fire storm on this board from guys who never posted before, calling for GW's immediate replacement by FHJ, since he had "proved" with one win with another guy's team that he could, indeed, coach. Mulcahy saw a way out of the contract--including the extension--and tried to fire GW for breaking his contract by being unable to get back to NJ, but that wasn't going to fly, and we ate the contract and were saddled with the least effective coach in RU history because Mulcahy was sure if we didn't hire FHJ, SHU and others were salivating in the wings. Mulcahy was a true weasel. The football people said, well, he hired Schiano, but even a blind snake can catch a frog once in a while. The rest of the tawdry story of RU hoops until the advent of the new staff is, as some say, history.
TL
And it was embarrassing for RU and showed a lot about BM. On top of that we got a nurse to do a doctor's job (same as when we settled for Flood) and it set the program back.
Amazing how right things are looking now with competent people at the helm.
Sadly FHJ was only the third least effective coach trailing both Eddie and Craig Littlepage.
When Freddie was hired Gary's days were numbered and you're right the way it played out when Waters was forced to resign because Mulcahy found out he couldn't fire Gary for cause.
I didn't think Gary Waters was as good as a RU HC as some others here do.
But I will agree the way Waters was forced out was a chicken$#1T move by Mulcahy
and in hindsight a move that destroyed any chance RU MBB would improve.
I thought Hill could lead RU MBB to the promised land, whereas Waters wasn't able to, but Freddie only made RU MBB into nuclear waste and pointed RU in the opposite direction of where the promised land was at.
And he was a whisper away from getting Jay Wright, too. If he had done that, in addition to hiring Schiano 4 months earlier, he'd be remembered as the best AD in the history of the world.
And around the recruitment of guys like Lance Thomas, who he just couldn't close on.
Thanks for the history lesson. I know that, unless you're Kentucky, beating a guy out for Duke is next to impossible. At the time though, there was a bit of an uptick in recruiting. But the thought around the program was that it was going to be a struggle to get to the next level with the status quo. That's why FHJ was brought in. That's why Waters was pushed out.
Similarly, and this is just my opinion, I thought Waters lacked that necessary personality for recruiting to get to the next level. Guys like Coach D, Mance, Carr, etc., should get showered with praise by Waters (and fans) for all they did for him over the years. I always thought it was more of their team than his.
I agree with Philalans here
I liked the man that Gary was and he was a solid coach but he was here and did not recruit enough in five years to get us over the top
His year four was a real 10-20 mess and year five was ridden on the greatest offensive season a Rutgers basketball ever had in Quincy doubu
The whole team except Quincy came back the next year a year older and went 10-20
We did not have enough talent under Gary to get whee we wanted
This isn't an argument being made on why FHJ should have replaced Gary but why Gary's time after five years was up
I liked the man that Gary was and he was a solid coach but he was here and did not recruit enough in five years to get us over the top
His year four was a real 10-20 mess and year five was ridden on the greatest offensive season a Rutgers basketball ever had in Quincy doubu
The whole team except Quincy came back the next year a year older and went 10-20
We did not have enough talent under Gary to get whee we wanted
This isn't an argument being made on why FHJ should have replaced Gary but why Gary's time after five years was up
Sorry but I'm a card carrying member of the the "pine for GW" police.
GW was fired after year 5. His 6th year team at RU was going to easily be his worst. We were going to be FAR below .500 in his 6th year with still no NCAA bid and not much hope for the next 2 years based on the lack of recruiting.
Hiring FHJ is a different topic but GW was fired at the appropriate time.
GW was fired after year 5. His 6th year team at RU was going to easily be his worst. We were going to be FAR below .500 in his 6th year with still no NCAA bid and not much hope for the next 2 years based on the lack of recruiting.
Hiring FHJ is a different topic but GW was fired at the appropriate time.
In the last forty plus years two Rutgers basketball HC's have winning career records while at RU. Tom Young and Gary Waters.
Gary would have done a whole heck of a lot better than 10-19/3-13 in '06-'07.
Gary has won 356 games as college HC. He has won his conference regular season twice and his tournament championship three times. He has been COY three times in his conference.
Not saying he is an "elite" college HC. He isn't. But he is a darn good coach.
Gary would have done a whole heck of a lot better than 10-19/3-13 in '06-'07.
Gary has won 356 games as college HC. He has won his conference regular season twice and his tournament championship three times. He has been COY three times in his conference.
Not saying he is an "elite" college HC. He isn't. But he is a darn good coach.
Last edited:
How does everyone know how FIG turns out with Waters as coach? Is it possible certain coaches get more out of certain players? JR Inman was and is a very talented basketball player that seemed as a freshman destined for a great career. An injury and a coaching change was the inflection point.
This is not fantasy football....players do different things when put with different players and different coaches. I believe Waters was the right fit for FIG.
PG Webb
SG Farmer
SF Griffin
PF Inman
C Hill
Bench Joynes Bailey Keating Hamady (FR).
You would have thought he might have brought in a guard although we had Courtney Nelson.
SG Farmer
SF Griffin
PF Inman
C Hill
Bench Joynes Bailey Keating Hamady (FR).
You would have thought he might have brought in a guard although we had Courtney Nelson.
