The story around Mikic is going to be an interesting one, if he ends up coming here. At the end of last year, he was promoted off the a junior team to Dunav, a professional team in the Basketball League of Serbia, where he played 4 games. I would expect that once that happened, he was off the radar for US colleges, because he seemingly became a professional, playing in one of the better leagues in Europe, and one would naturally assume he would stay there and play pro in Europe unless he ever got good enough to be drafted by the NBA. Then he strangely moved to Chattanooga, TN to play for a very small Christian school. Once the HS season ended he started playing for AOT, the same AAU program that Ace had played for, and now has started attracting lots of attention. I do think there is a question of how he maintained his eligibility to play in college, given the handful of games that he played for the pro team. I am sure there is an answer, but it is very unusual.
Last scholly - what say you?
- Thread starter JayDogSmooth
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I hear what you are saying.
But Cliff was a pretty good player based solely on good size and very good athleticism.
Sometimes you can still be good despite being heavily weighted towards one attribute.
Not so much evading it as not needing more than a few minutes to reach an assessment.
I, and presumably anybody with experience, can generally make a rough-cut evaluation of athleticism within ~10 minutes of seeing someone play. Takes longer to get to know a player's full talent and skill level. But talent/skill is different and more complicated than athleticism. And I'm only talking athleticism here.
I learned that skill running tryouts in soccer over many years. I was only ever incorrect in an initial assessment one time (that I know about, at least), and that was with a much younger kid. At Mikic's age, I feel pretty confident in my quick assessment.
BTW, the assessment that I got wrong didn't change from tryout session to tryout session in the same year. I didn't make a mistake not taking him for the team that year. Instead, the kid came back after two years away and had grown much taller and leaner, had gone from being slow and uncoordinated to being one of the fittest, fastest, and most coordinated kids I'd seen over the years. It was an amazing and unique transformation, in my experience at least.
He looks like he presents the same unathletic optical illusion that a lot of big men do. Like Jokic or Edey. Not saying he's anywhere near as good as them. But his "athleticism" is hard to judge.
That's a tough choice, IMO, and very much depends on the composition of the rest of the team.
Cliff at his best (when being fed the ball rather than creating his own shot) was a beast and on defense he was great, cleaning up a lot of situations where the other team beat our rotations. But he suffered from periods of low energy or lost focus or something.
Cam was great when he was on and especially against smaller or slower defenders. But there were games where he really struggled, often against faster, taller defenders. OTOH, Cam was also really good on team D (maybe not so much 1 v 1, though).
He’s probably more athletic then those guys.
Both are just bigger or much bigger. Jokic is incredibly skilled.
Speaking of Jokic im liking the “kic” eastern euro aspect with Mikic.
Im a buyer.
That's an important question.
I'm defining it here as speed (both quickness of movement and pace when running the court), and jumping (quickness and height). I place stuff like vision, court-sense, passing and receiving, shooting, defending, softness of hands, etc. more in the category of skills or talents). Athleticism helps a lot with skills and talents but players can be skilled and talented and not necessarily the most athletic.
But... another valid way to view athleticism is the combination of all the factors mentioned above. I'm just separating out the brute physical stuff 'cause it's easy to spot quickly and doesn't really change much once a person is fully grown.
Then you are talking about a team with almost no weaknesses , and should be a Final Four contender on the jump. We do not need our center to be all World. I think the people on this board that tend to lean negatively are selling Latham short. He will be the most skilled big guy to arrive on the Banks ever. Even a third center that can give him 5-6 games to ease Lathan into the starting lineup , be serviceable , a few points a game , rebounds on both ends, can pass like this Milic kid , and play a lick of defense and block shots , is more than enough to make a run.
We have a solid blend of Tranfer Portal Seniors that are grown men that are athletic, or can shoot the three , like Martini , Hayes , Acuff , then juniors in JWill , Ogbole and tranfer portal Derdack , one sophomore in JMike and 5 freshman. It is a great blend of experience and youth with great depth and needs addressed. I would like a third center , someone like Milic , is fine , but we do absolutely need it to make a run.
Agree with this, and that was kind of my point, that being a skilled player can out weigh athletism. BTW Jokic and Mikic are "supposedly" the same height.
I really like his game
Exactly. In a vacuum, I love it. For next season, a veteran reliable big was the ideal fit in case Lathan isn't ready and/or Ogbole doesn't make a jump forward in development
He's not super athletic in the sense of being an explosive athlete. He is very athletic in terms of hand eye coordination and movement
He's a Jokic type not a Giannis type
His passing is elite and he can dribble. A big man who can grab a board and start the transition. If it was his junior year not freshman he would be a great fit for next year
Not sure why people are saying he's not athletic I can certainly post videos to show exactly the opposite.
The issue is he can be pushed around by the bigger B1G centers. That's what makes this intriguing, he plays less against the bigger centers when Sommerville and Ogbole will play more and against the smaller quicker fives he can play more when the other two may struggle.
The issue is he can be pushed around by the bigger B1G centers. That's what makes this intriguing, he plays less against the bigger centers when Sommerville and Ogbole will play more and against the smaller quicker fives he can play more when the other two may struggle.
The Serbs also play tough physical basketball, he won’t be afraid to mix it up under the basket.
Ha, yes, I'm very serious. All this team needs is a rebounding rim protector that can occasionally run at the rim and the sky could have been the limit. I almost care nothing about the offensive ability of who the center is this year. Just about any center can dunk. The teams best chance now is for Ogbole to be well advanced of what we've seen from him thus far.
We have good/excellent depth at 1-3, agree. We have zero rebounding depth at 4 and 5. Lathan is going to be playing against guys his size or bigger, and just as quick, for the first time in his life. I think his adjustment to that end of playing big will take longer. I hope I'm wrong and he's Jared Sullinger out the box, but I doubt it. If you think a lower rated freshman center is going to give you help BEFORE you ease in Lathan, I'd love what you are smoking. He's a very solid prospect for the future. If I thought Martini or Ace could rebound from the 4 spot well, it might be a different story.
JWill and Derkack are lead guards that can't shoot from outside, very little let down when rotated.
Dylan and Acuff should be able to score from three levels
Ace and Hayes. Ace's production potential is all over the place, complete unknown to me. Hayes can shoot, but isn't good defensively, which will limit Pikes use of him.
Martini - hustle glue guy. Should rebound a little better than LY and knock down a couple 3's, but doesn't impact games much and isn't good defensively.
Our length 1-3 is excellent. This season will come down to rebounding. Can any of these guys guard big men or quick guards? Advanced offense is only good if it's better than the defense.
I just sent a comment to Scagg addressing this, in Serbia, they play rough. He is not going to be afraid of mixing up it up and fighting under the broads.
I meant a veteran who is serviceable in those areas not dominant.
But we are that talented where final four is a consideration. The question is how young we will be. Mikic would be another young guy
Depends on who is playing those back up minutes at the 4 and 5... if it's Grant and Ogbole for example then they will be be expected to be very strong rebounders
As usual, he wasn't highly recruited so majority of fans won't think he's any good
If you watch some film, you can see this young man can play
I wonder what his actual height weight and wingspan are
You do not think our team of Martini or Acuff or JWill or Ace or Derdack or Dylan or Egbole or Lathan will rebound enough ? Totally disagree and will be our best rebounding team on both ends in the last 3 years. . Pike is back with the big long rangy guards 6’4-6-6 with the only exception is JMike .
We weren’t getting the so called better portal centers who were going for 1-2 million , so that was a PIPE Dream. But I disagree we need an All World guy or else disappointment will happen. This is the best roster depth , 3 point shooting wise , length , athleticism , that Pike has ever had. More than enough to make a run. You are assuming we get nothing out of Latham , Egbole or this third center in defense rebounding or rim protection but that is just looking at worst case scenario . At the very least Lathan and Egbole will be serviceable even if not all world , like you wanted , and we should still be making a huge run with this roster.
I consider it skill.
I do not see it as super-athletic on either player's part 'cause Flagg was stumbling and falling and moving at an angle across the basket and didn't elevate very much as he tried to toss the ball up awkwardly with his near arm. Flagg is normally more athletic than he showed on that one play, however.
Mikic's initial burst to cover Flagg was actually pretty sluggish and it was Flagg's stumble and maybe a momentary loss of dribble that prevented allowed Mikic to stay with him and be in a position to block the shot.
Someone earlier said that all these players are athletic. I agree with that. I didn't say "not athletic". I also never said he won't help us out or anything like that.
What I said was that I'm not sure about his being athletic enough for our tougher competition (who won't always stumble or lose their dribble or take a bad angles on drives leading to awkward shots at the hoop). And I said he's not super-athletic. I stand by those comments.
We're just gonna have to wait and see if he can consistently match up against tough competition or not. It's not obvious to me he can. But as I said, I'm hopeful.
Who said he can't play?
The question isn't "can he play". The question is can he be successful against tough competition in the Big Ten. Because one blocked shot on a player who's falling down and tossing up an awkward shot doesn't help make that case.
I tend to disagree, getting a clean block despite having to recover from being behind a step shows athleticism. Is it Ace Bailey level athleticism? Not close. But I can say its for example Dean Reiber level athleticism which is acceptable? Yes.
Assessing MJ is pointless now, but to me, physical means using aggression, body and strength to impose will. To be strong. Tough.
Myles was the opposite. Soft for his size on both ends. Not a bruiser by any stretch. He was the rebounding height on a team with other physical players. A space eater, nothing more. As much as I was glad he left, Mulcahy was a physical player. RHJ. Caleb.
Actual physical players ate MJ up, just like Cliff disappeared against them.
Some vids i was thinking, ok he does look pretty tall, and pretty solidly built still wonder about 6’11” though and as you say wingspan.
Just to set expectations on athleticism, when Dean was on the team all of the players noted that he was the best athlete on the team.
he seems to have more hops and quickness then jokic.
Jokic seems bigger to me, part of that being something akin to a beer belly. But taller as well.
Obviously jokic is extremely coordinated, skilled and b-ball smart.
You realize we averaged more rebounds per game last year than the team had since 2019-2020? It doesn't matter if you get outrebounded. I don't think a team of long guards and wings lacking in bigs will win the rebounding battle many nights in the big.
Pikes best rebounding teams, were year one with Getty's and Freeman doing some heavy lifting along with Mike Williams averaging over 5 a game. That team avged 40 per and 5 more than the comp. Year 3 also, with Eugene, Myles, and Shaq won the margin by 5.
Martini has never averaged 8 per 40 at a lower level, let alone the 8 we need from him a night.
If the big's can be serviceable, and you very rarely see serviceable freshman, yes, we could be fine. It's not likely best case scenario happens. I never like to depend on, or expect best case from freshman - its not fair to them. Occasionally, I'm pleasantly surprised, usually, I get what I was expecting - Gavin last year for instance - someone trying to find their way. It may have been since Geo that I had been surprised before that. That's why I think Ogbole will end up the key to the season.
We are already assuming Ace and Dylan play like top players and not freshman, then we need Acuff, Derkack, Martini, Hayes to all play to the higher level, AND now we hope another freshman or two exceed what we should ask? Its a stretch to think we get it all.
There was no way he was more athletic than Jacob Young or even Simpson (Simpson just couldn't shoot).
Doubt it. Aside from being freshmen playing in a physical conference, the two of them are scorers first. There’s an expression ‘if it weren’t for offense I’d play defense.’
Most of their energy will be expended on offense, which is what matters by far more than anything else to their NBA futures.
If defense mattered then Cliff and Caleb would be NBA talents.
Not sure what team you watched last 2 years. We were terrible rebounding last year and the year before once Mag went down. Why are you discounting Latham and Ogbole rebounding coupled with this third center. You expecting no rebounds out of them. Then add in all the big guards and wings and we should have the best rebounding team in the conference , especially on the defensive glass which has cost us games . We do not need Martini to get 8 a night , although he could , but 5-6 would be expected coupled or added to everyone else.
Finally , we are not asking anyone playing above their level. We need Martini and Hayes to hit 3’s especially on kick outs , like they have done in their 4 year career. They are transfer seniors not freshman. We expect Acuff and Derdack to be scorers with JWill , again upperclassman. Dylan and Ace will be garnering a ton of attention and Latham is just going to get better the more he gets acclimated. You act like you expect Dylan and Ace to have a Gavin type season, just because they are freshman. They are not just freshman , they will be the best in the country. I guess you are just cautious and expect everything to be below expectations but that is not our roster. Going be a great ride.
With the quantity of guards we have i dont see how Ace isnt the “4” most of the time
No one is expecting Dylan and Ave to p!ay like Gavin, if that happens the season will be a disaster. Ace is the x factor. If he plays like a # 1 pick, the ceiling is much higher.
We were a bad rebounding team last year, but team averaged more per game than it had in years. Right know I'm not sure this team is even better on the boards, let alone best in conference. If Ogbole and LS can each be 6 and 6 guys, we may be fine. I'm not sure if they can be, which is why having the third big as another freshman is a big risk, for this year. The kid is a good prospect for the future.
We don't KNOW if we are asking anyone to play above their level. The only guys in the team that have played at this level before are JMike, who barely gets mentioned, and JWill + EO for 12 games each. Everyone else, we have zero idea of their ability at this level. Martini was barely average at Princeton, he has to prove himself still on the defensive end. Acuff was an excellent, needed vet scorer. I'm not a JWill fan, and Derkack is a like replacement, should be little drop off, but I'm not totally sold on their fits next to Dylan.
I just don't assume the answer to each question will be positive. I think Acuff, Ogbole, Dylan, Hayes, will give what we hope they do. I think people are a little too high on JWill, Martini (I love his attitude and really hope he comes good), and Somerville (for this year). Ace the x factor and have a feeling we see more of JMike than people think.
I agree it should be a great ride and fascinating watch to see how it comes together.
What NBA team did McConnell’s DPOY get him drafted by ? Sure, some NBA guys are better defensive players than others but not a single one of them in the history of the NBA was drafted primarily for their D. Not ever.
Pike’s pact to bring them here is to showcase their scoring. That’s what will dictate their draft fate, so that’s what they will spend almost all energy on. It’s just how it is.
The reason players like McConnell have no traction in the NBA is that you have players like Anthony Edwards, who is vastly superior to McConnell defensively, and can also score 30 points a game. And Edwards is in his 4th year in the league and is two years younger than McConnell.
Agree - sort of. Caleb’s D would be in the top 25% in the league, but that’s not good enough for more than a small utility role as a ceiling when his offense ranks dead last. So your right.
Shelby would say you flip it, the reverse wouldn’t be true for a top 25% offense contributor which is probably correct in the context of the pool of prospects out there. But the worst defenders don’t even make it that far. If you can’t cover someone your immediately off the NBA radar so D seems to be evaluated a bit differently in that it’s crucial to attain a certain level of skill to have any chance at all but then how much better you are above that level is probably not as important as comparative superiority on offense.
