im not asking for choir. I woukd like to ask for players that don’t commit drive by shootings with paintball guns
Football Max Melton & Chris Long Suspended
- Thread starter Tango Two
- Start date
im not asking for choir. I woukd like to ask for players that don’t commit drive by shootings with paintball guns
Pretty much everybody in here is saying it's a crime. The debate is, based on what we know (which is limited), is kicking them out of the university an appropriate punishment, and is it appropriate to apply the classification of "felon" to their names? Nobody has said to let them walk, either. It's a matter of degrees, not absolutes. The art of nuanced discussion is lost when folks throw red herrings, straw men, and all-or-nothing statements out there.
Shot at with a paint gun. As I said before there is getting shot at by a water gun and shot at with a real gun. I don't know where a paint gun fits in these 2 extremes.
We all don't know exactly what happened and why this was done. I honestly don't know how dangerous a paint gun is.
Did the people who report this know they were shot by a paintball gun? Did they think it was a real gun?
After being shot at by a paintball gun would one normally call the cops?
The paint balls generally leave welts (nothing permanent), unless you get hit in the head without wearing protection where the result can range all the way up to losing an eye (there are plenty of documented paint ball related serious eye injuries).
No, I will continue to for Rutgers to step up and start competing and beating OSU and Penn State. What great teams have we beaten on a consistent basis? We beat Louisville 15 years ago, I get it. Have we beaten OSU, Wisconsin, Penn State? How many BE championships have we won outright, how many B1G championships have we won, how many New Year's Day bowls have we been to, how many conference championship games have we played? Let's not forget we had players commit rapes, robberies. assaults, etc., we haven't escaped without any incidents ourselves. These kids made a mistake, if they can help us win let's get them back on the field ASAP and let's beat OSU and Penn State and win the East.
Is this a s serious question?
If I was minding my own business walking down the street, and someone drives by and pops me with a paintball gun? Damn straight I'm calling the cops and reporting it and the license number if I got it.
Thanks...did some unofficial research.
This is actual common. Often times people who are shot think it is a real gun. Also some people freeze the pellets so the paint doesn't explode.
This was really a senseless act. These guys represent Rutgers University 24/7. I worry about an individual that would do something like this.
It definitely hurts to be shot at in close distance with a paintball gun. Leaves some mean welts on pretty much everyone who plays the game. Also - if they used red paint that would’ve been pretty scary too if you think about it. At the time, the victims may have thought the splatter was blood pouring out. Not funny at all.
A water gun isn’t dangerous so I’d replace it with nerf gun in your spectrum question as those can also poke someone’s eye out. Obviously paint balls can cause more harm (bruising) than nerf guns and are more likely to hurt someone’s eye without goggles on, but paint balls also can’t kill anyone therefore I’d personally put them much closer on the spectrum to nerf than a semi automatic. Then again, if they used real guns they’d be looking at far more time and the injuries would be much more severe.
They were special guns. They were real Glocks that were modified to shoot only simunition rounds.
So it isn't inconceivable that the police were called because the victims thought they were shot at by real guns.
Would you call the police if you knew you were fired at by a paint ball gun?
By the way, Antnee79 is a previous recipient of The Source Seal of Approval. 😁
Yeah eye injuries are common. That’s why paintball guns are usually reserved for when playing the game in full gear while elementary school children can roam free with nerf guns (which occasionally do cause eye injuries too).
It was a super dumb thing to do and likely scared the crap out of the victims whether they knew them or not. But unless the fear factor causes a heart attack, a paint ball gun cannnot to my knowledge cause fatal injury.
RU has a game on October 16, bye week, then game on October 30. I know the court hearing is scheduled for early November, but I'm guessing there is a decent chance this can be resolved before then and the suspensions can be lifted during the bye week. Just my current uneducated guess.
The opposite….one would be more apt to call the cops if they were shot at by a real gun vs a paint ball gun (this is obvious).
Not inconceivable at all and yeah I would’ve called the police too if I was attacked that way by surprise. The impact would’ve been very painful and if it was red paint it had to of been a scary moment.
They were hit and had welts. I can't believe someone would say or think "But they're white so it's OK" and you believe that to be the case.
Where exactly did I say “it’s all fun”?
I said that on a spectrum a paintball gun is closer to a nerf gun than to a real semi automatic gun (which in this exact situation would’ve most likely KILLED the victim shot in the lower abdomen and at minimum severely crippled the others). Had they used those heavy duty Fortnight style Nerf Guns they wouldn’t have had the minor bleeding but likely would’ve still had some welts. Do you disagree?
As I said before.....we don't know anything definitively. I do firmly believe that there would a difference in the probability of a police call being made if the shooter was Max Melton or Noah Vedral. If there was any question on what type of gun was shot then i am even more confident of the probability being different.
As i read more and understand more about paintball guns I defintely would be upset if these 2 didn't at least get 3 game suspension. This is more than a prank.
Sixteen pages in this thread so far, so I'm not going to review each one to find out if this was posted earlier, but my forlorn hope is that this entire episode was concocted by Schiano as a head-game with Harbaugh to get him to lean more on the pass than the run for Saturday's game.
When you think about it, other than faking an injury - which would be too obvious - this is almost exactly how you would go about engaging in a conspiracy to make an opposing head coach believe you're going to be down one of your best players in the secondary.
... and no other Big Ten coach would be more worthy of this kind of mind-gaming than mister "'go for two' in 2015".
They'll spend decades talking about the faked arrests of Melton & Long that led Harbaugh to throw deep against a Rutgers secondary that intercepted Michigan four times back in 2021, and won in the Big House for the first time, ever.
When you think about it, other than faking an injury - which would be too obvious - this is almost exactly how you would go about engaging in a conspiracy to make an opposing head coach believe you're going to be down one of your best players in the secondary.
... and no other Big Ten coach would be more worthy of this kind of mind-gaming than mister "'go for two' in 2015".
They'll spend decades talking about the faked arrests of Melton & Long that led Harbaugh to throw deep against a Rutgers secondary that intercepted Michigan four times back in 2021, and won in the Big House for the first time, ever.
So you think they shouldn't have been suspended?? Of what was reported what more are you looking for??
I mean we don’t know for sure, but the arrest was made pretty quickly. Seems unlikely the guns weren’t recovered in their possession. It’s not going to come out that they are innocent here - at least that’s highly unlikely.
Fine - I'll say it.
Both players should be on the field Saturday.
Maybe suspended a half - as a "distraction" punishment for getting arrested but that's it.
It's very simple - innocent until proven guilty.
This should be the standard Rutgers AD response to any player arrest:
"We believe in the rule of law and innocent until proven guilty. At this time, we are letting the legal process play out. Upon the conclusion of that process, we will do an internal investigation to see if any internal rules or procedures were broken and assess the appropriate punishment (if any at all)."
Simple standard and not really arguable.
There is a legal system for a reason.
Is Rutgers Athletics saying they are more important than the legal system of the country?
Both players should be on the field Saturday.
Maybe suspended a half - as a "distraction" punishment for getting arrested but that's it.
It's very simple - innocent until proven guilty.
This should be the standard Rutgers AD response to any player arrest:
"We believe in the rule of law and innocent until proven guilty. At this time, we are letting the legal process play out. Upon the conclusion of that process, we will do an internal investigation to see if any internal rules or procedures were broken and assess the appropriate punishment (if any at all)."
Simple standard and not really arguable.
There is a legal system for a reason.
Is Rutgers Athletics saying they are more important than the legal system of the country?
If this turns out to be mistaken identity (just an example) and both players are completely innocent - why should they have been suspended prematurely by the team?
This is the problem with Rutgers. Everyone wants to make each case into a special circumstance and come up with new rules on the fly.
Set a standard and adhere to it.
This is the problem with Rutgers. Everyone wants to make each case into a special circumstance and come up with new rules on the fly.
Set a standard and adhere to it.
Well, put me in the minority of people (I guess) who wouldn’t have called the police. I would’ve remembered the car and returned the favor when I found it on campus. But, I get it, I’m also the guy who thinks involving the police in everything is unnecessary.
I probably would as well. Then if I find out it’s young college kids being stupid I would drop the charges so their lives are not ruined. Hopefully that is what we will see here but many people do like to ruin lives.
I could buy that if Max and Chris are denying they did what they've been arrested for doing. Or if they have cited extenuating circumstances that make it clear the charges will likely be dropped.
But what if Max and Chris have both admitted to Schiano that they were directly involved? And that there were no circumstances that would result in charges being dropped or reduced? Then GS doesn't have to wait for a verdict, right?
So if the charges were rape or murder you'd have them play until they were convicted?
Whatever happens is going to happen regardless of what you prefer. My bet is it's more lenient than what you're talking. I guess you can continue arguing how you would have laid down some harder law, but it'd make more sense just to embrace what happens and move on.
Not sure why you're deadset on throwing team members to the wolves.
Pretty sure it doesn't matter if the kids that were hit with the paintball gun wish to drop the charges. My understanding for these sorts of charges is that they are brought by the prosecutor.
What the kids who were hit *could* do to affect things is to state they won't testify. And if there are no other witnesses to the crime, or if nobody can positively identify Max and Chris, then it might get hard enough to prosecute and the prosecutor will drop the charges (or the case will be tossed by a judge).
Nope. Still wait for a verdict for any formal action by the school.
Stop trying to compliant things.
Institutions (especially Rutgers) need easy to follow, simple procedures.
What benefit is there to suspending the players in advance?
If the guilty verdict is guaranteed then the players will receive the punishments they deserve in time.
If Rutgers did suspend them in advance - after the "guilty" verdict does the school say "They were guilty. However, no more punishment from us because we suspended them already"??
Doubtful. They would end up with a further suspension anyway.
The only thing a suspension prior to verdict does is pre-punish and create a situation where there is a different process every time for every altercation.
Who is ignoring? Letting the legal process play out is ignoring? That's crazy.
I get arrested for something.
My company should automatically fire me - before it even goes to trial or a verdict?
And if I'm innocent? Then what? "Oops...we were sorry".
Arrest does not equal guilty.
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