I am very bias here. Ten football players and one drunk girl. I'm not saying these guys should go to jail or anything but I don't fault the university for suspending them.
Minnesota Players to Boycott Holiday Bowl
- Thread starter mikemarc1
- Start date
This goes beyond a school specific policy. Colleges and universities must now investigate sexual assaults under title IX...
From: http://knowyourix.org/title-ix/title-ix-the-basics/
4. Your school must have an established procedure for handling complaints of sex discrimination, sexual harassment or sexual violence. Every school must have a Title IX Coordinator who manages complaints. The Coordinator’s contact information should be publicly accessible on the school’s website. If you decide to file a complaint, your school must promptly investigate it regardless of whether you report to the police (though a police investigation may very briefly delay the school’s investigation if law enforcement is gathering evidence). A school may not wait for the conclusion of a criminal proceeding and should conclude its own investigation within a semester’s time (the 2011 Office for Civil Rights Title IX guidance proposes 60 days as an appropriate time-frame). The school should use a “preponderance of the evidence” standard to determine the outcome of a complaint, meaning discipline should result if it is more likely than not that discrimination, harassment and/or violence occurred. The final decision should be provided to you and the accused in writing. Both of you have the right to appeal the decision.
From: http://knowyourix.org/title-ix/title-ix-the-basics/
4. Your school must have an established procedure for handling complaints of sex discrimination, sexual harassment or sexual violence. Every school must have a Title IX Coordinator who manages complaints. The Coordinator’s contact information should be publicly accessible on the school’s website. If you decide to file a complaint, your school must promptly investigate it regardless of whether you report to the police (though a police investigation may very briefly delay the school’s investigation if law enforcement is gathering evidence). A school may not wait for the conclusion of a criminal proceeding and should conclude its own investigation within a semester’s time (the 2011 Office for Civil Rights Title IX guidance proposes 60 days as an appropriate time-frame). The school should use a “preponderance of the evidence” standard to determine the outcome of a complaint, meaning discipline should result if it is more likely than not that discrimination, harassment and/or violence occurred. The final decision should be provided to you and the accused in writing. Both of you have the right to appeal the decision.
This is kind of like MLB/NFL not needing a conviction or even being charged with a crime to punish their players.
It's amazing how some people think. Just because something is legal, it doesn't mean it's right. You can do something that is legal, but is still "wrong."
It's not a very moral thing to do to take a drunk girl upstairs and gangbang her. That's taking advantage of someone. You can take advantage of someone, even if they consent to it.
Here's my guess. The players hold out on the boycott. The University retaliates by ending all of their scholarships. Minny football absolutely goes in the tank. And.....we don't play them next year.
I edited my original post because I knew this response would come. Simply put, if it was consensual, it was fine and not wrong.
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if but..but...but....if she's drunk then she's not making a lucid conscious choice
Correct, if she was intoxicated to the point that she could not make reliable decisions, then the players should be punished to the fullest extent. But neither of us knows enough about the situation to make that determination one way or the other, and that was never my intention. I'm not blaming the woman here either; in fact, just the opposite: My only point is that people shouldn't judge what is "right" and "wrong" about the - according to the police - legal behaviors of other adults. If more information comes out, or if the police are shown to have conducted a poor investigation, that's another story entirely.
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Right, but the University is taking action much later and the players are getting their reputations ruined because of it. That is the crux of the argument coming from the players that are boycotting.
Apparently they said "no thanks" because Northern Illinois, according to all reports, is next in line. At 5-7 no less, however, even NIU officials said it would be "difficult" to pull this off.
You persist in referring to her as drunk despite the police report saying she was lucid and alert. That's a significant difference, and the police observed the evidence, while you did not. So let me ask you, if the report was of a sober or not-drunk woman approaching a group of me and agreeing to engage in consensual sex would your opinion of the situation change? Because that makes a huge difference to me and it's closer to what the police report describes.
Couple of things I got over at "Gopherhole" real quick:
- may have been a recruit involved (in one of the videos)
- they're in the middle of a meeting with Regents, now, that began a couple of hours ago
- some of you might want to read excerpts from the report found in this thread:
http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...s-involved-and-on-video-Is-that-an-NCAA-issue
- may have been a recruit involved (in one of the videos)
- they're in the middle of a meeting with Regents, now, that began a couple of hours ago
- some of you might want to read excerpts from the report found in this thread:
http://www.forums.gopherhole.com/bo...s-involved-and-on-video-Is-that-an-NCAA-issue
The logistics and amount of money the fans have already spent to go to Nashville made it dumb to switch. I don't blame them.
Please stop with the attempts to place all the blame on the woman in question... she could be a hooker but still their actions aren't warranted ....this type of behavior seems like a re run at Minnesota.... Minnesota's football and basketball teams had a similar actions occur in 2015 I believe ...it must be the weather in the frozen tundra affects the testosterone levels in these young thugs ( men).... Minnesota's football players are in need of some serious help and direction regarding what is legal consensual relations vs. pulling a "train " on a woman (drunk or sober) ...If this were at Rutgers all holy hell would be raining down fromESPN.... NJ . com... this Rivals Board and every other NY media outlet ...it's not what the school requires ....it's related to Federal requirements to investigate these actions on college campuses ...it appears most of these were freshmen...maybe a soph or two...and many here thought Leonte Carroo was a thug...
They'd call for the shutdown of the entire athletic department, immediately, without question or hesitation.
Tracy Claeys is definitely dumber than a stump with his recent twitter comment in support of his players...Tracy , if you want your players going forward to make a better world...tell them to practice some self control and use good common sense...
You think there is a University policy against gang banging a willing party?
Look, I get why the school did this but more and more you hear about these university cases where the accused had no voice in any of the so called hearings. These guys are morons and should have known better. Not sure a lot of 20 year olds wouldn't have done the same with a willing participant. What's the acceptable number 2 dudes? 3? Guess not many here ever had a summer house in Belmar.
If you had a woman, in your family literally gangbanged because she was drunk or for that matter sober, I think attitudes become quite different here... gangbangs down at the Jersey or at any school should not happen but they do....high class people do the same .
What's the policy? Having sex with a girl who had been drinking? Gonna be a small college
We obviously don't know all the details. One thing that gets me is at minimum shouldn't they be in trouble for filming a sex act? If they aren't does that mean She even knew that was happening.
From what I have seen and read here I think it is possible that many posters could be jumping to conclusions. I am speculating but, the school has refused to detail the reasons for the suspension for confidentiality and legal reasons. So we do not know why they have been suspended. We are all assuming that the reasons are for the sexual assault. What if in the investigation the school has discovered that there was drug use at the party, or, maybe alcohol was being provided by the players to underage drinkers. There are many circumstances that may have emerged from the investigation that had nothing to do with the sexual assault that were violations of school and/or team rules.
What I mean is that all the facts are not established and that in the UVA and Duke Lacrosse there were fabrications. None of us know if there was consent.
That's why I don't get beating up on the players. Imagine if these guys are telling their fellow players this girl consented - they are hearing it from who they consider to be brothers - of course they are going to be angry.
There is enough time to let the facts come out. Either they will look like geniuses or idiots. Not RU's problem.
Nuts if you were at the Homecoming game in Minnesota in October you would rethink your post.
What we saw from the RU section was a half empty stadium for a Winning record Gopher team. The support for Minnesota Football program is real low right now, even RU had a better home attendance this year.
You would lose your dollars to donuts bet. Guaranteed.
This was said by the President and AD of Minnesota in a joint statement;
>“We understand that a lot of confusion and frustration exists as a result of this week’s suspension of ten Gopher football players from all team activities,” the statement read. “The reality is that not everyone can have all of the facts, and unfortunately the university cannot share more information due to federal laws regarding student privacy.:
>“We understand that a lot of confusion and frustration exists as a result of this week’s suspension of ten Gopher football players from all team activities,” the statement read. “The reality is that not everyone can have all of the facts, and unfortunately the university cannot share more information due to federal laws regarding student privacy.<
http://www.kare11.com/news/gophers-football-players-meet-with-u-of-m-regents/371890649
Key part is >"the university cannot share more information due to federal laws regarding student privacy."<
and the boycott is what all the fuss is about, the guilt or innocence of those suspended are only an excuse for some to act like the players have a right to boycott.
If the University can't tell what they know for privacy purposes this boycott is just a tool to bring back those players that are suspended without really caring about what they were supposed to have done.
I'd talk to them explaine there's info that they don't know and the University is prevent from sharing to anyone because of privacy laws and if they don't like it they can transfer and the school will petition the NCAA for them to receive immediate eligibility.
They would have 3 days to decide to accept or reject that offer or drop the boycott. Because on the 4th day if their still boycotting their scholarships will be immediately revoked for conduct unbecoming the University and transfer requests would be denied.( if that was legal)
>“We understand that a lot of confusion and frustration exists as a result of this week’s suspension of ten Gopher football players from all team activities,” the statement read. “The reality is that not everyone can have all of the facts, and unfortunately the university cannot share more information due to federal laws regarding student privacy.:
>“We understand that a lot of confusion and frustration exists as a result of this week’s suspension of ten Gopher football players from all team activities,” the statement read. “The reality is that not everyone can have all of the facts, and unfortunately the university cannot share more information due to federal laws regarding student privacy.<
http://www.kare11.com/news/gophers-football-players-meet-with-u-of-m-regents/371890649
Key part is >"the university cannot share more information due to federal laws regarding student privacy."<
and the boycott is what all the fuss is about, the guilt or innocence of those suspended are only an excuse for some to act like the players have a right to boycott.
If the University can't tell what they know for privacy purposes this boycott is just a tool to bring back those players that are suspended without really caring about what they were supposed to have done.
I'd talk to them explaine there's info that they don't know and the University is prevent from sharing to anyone because of privacy laws and if they don't like it they can transfer and the school will petition the NCAA for them to receive immediate eligibility.
They would have 3 days to decide to accept or reject that offer or drop the boycott. Because on the 4th day if their still boycotting their scholarships will be immediately revoked for conduct unbecoming the University and transfer requests would be denied.( if that was legal)
No, even if she gave consent, it's not fine. One of the issues here is that she was drinking. That's playing a factor. So, even if she gets liquored up, and consents, the university is perfectly within its rights to deem this a violation of policy. And just from a purely personal perspective, it's still a pretty sleazy thing to do.
Yes, you can judge what's right and wrong. I don't know why you can't understand that something doesn't have to be illegal to be wrong.
Let me just bottom line it. If the university wants to have a policy that a group of guys having sex with a drunk girl (even if she consented) is against their rules, they can do that. If you don't like that policy, choose a different school.
Doesn't matter. The school's rules aren't determined by criminal law. A schools can set rules that are beyond criminal law. If the schools feels the players violated school policy, they can suspend the players, regardless of the effect on the players' reputations. I perfectly understand the players' argument. I'm just telling you their argument is full of shit.
I don't know Minnesota's specific policy. However, to answer your question, yeah they can make that a policy if they want.
Minnesota already had an issue with this with the basketball team last year suspending players at the end of the year for tweeting a sex video...and this school also had an AD that had to resign last year for sexting and groping employees. So if the school is being tough here I can see why
I get that but it's wrong and where does it stop. You kick the guys out but not the girl? It was consensual so how is she less culpable?
8 second clip? I'm not sure how an 8 second clip can show that all the sexual acts were consensual, unless these guys were incredibly fast.
The answer is in your quote that you posted "after viewing two additional videos". Weird that you missed that in your own argument.
For one, she claims it wasn't consensual. The police department didn't feel there was a crime. However, for reasons that baffle me, some people can't seem to grasp the concept that the threshold for prosecuting a crime is a lot higher than for suspending/expelling someone from school. The school frankly doesn't have to meet the same standard.
The other part is, she was drinking. If a school feels a group of guys gangbanging a drunk girl is a code of conduct violation, that's reasonable.
