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Minnesota Players to Boycott Holiday Bowl

For one, she claims it wasn't consensual. The police department didn't feel there was a crime. However, for reasons that baffle me, some people can't seem to grasp the concept that the threshold for prosecuting a crime is a lot higher than for suspending/expelling someone from school. The school frankly doesn't have to meet the same standard.

The other part is, she was drinking. If a school feels a group of guys gangbanging a drunk girl is a code of conduct violation, that's reasonable.
She claims it wasn't consensual but video obviously said differently. Again, if there was any doubt wouldn't they have arrested the kids for filming a sexual act without consent? Fact that didn't even happen makes me question her story. Maybe I'm jaded. Few years ago I worked with a HS kid. D1 athlete was at a family BBQ. Hooks up with a girl in a bedroom, friends father reads about it on her social media, tells girls dad. Girl panics and says she was raped. Kid get kicked out of school etc etc. no prosecution, no charges, and girl later admits it was BS. Yes it's case by case but at some point girls who lie about this crap need to be held accountable.
 
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She claims it wasn't consensual but video obviously said differently. Again, if there was any doubt wouldn't they have arrested the kids for filming a sexual act without consent? Fact that didn't even happen makes me question her story. Maybe I'm jaded. Few years ago I worked with a HS kid. D1 athlete was at a family BBQ. Hooks up with a girl in a bedroom, friends father reads about it on her social media, tells girls dad. Girl panics and says she was raped. Kid get kicked out of school etc etc. no prosecution, no charges, and girl later admits it was BS. Yes it's case by case but at some point girls who lie about this crap need to be held accountable.

Again, no, the video doesn't show that. You can't get it through your head that the criminal standard and school standard are two different things. So to answer your question, no they wouldn't have arrested the kids if there was any doubt. The criminal standard is reasonable doubt, not any doubt. I'll give you a perfect example. In the Jameis Winston thing, there was some doubt by the police as to whether the girl consented. Did Winston ever get arrested? No. Why? Because it goes back to my point of reasonable doubt vs. any doubt.

To the other point, yes, you are jaded. I know all about girls that make fake rape charges. I personally know of one who did. That doesn't change the fact that a school is entitled to have a code of conduct policy, and it's perfectly reasonable for a school to consider 10 guys gangbanging a drunk girl to be a violation of said policy.
 
Again, no, the video doesn't show that. You can't get it through your head that the criminal standard and school standard are two different things. So to answer your question, no they wouldn't have arrested the kids if there was any doubt. The criminal standard is reasonable doubt, not any doubt. I'll give you a perfect example. In the Jameis Winston thing, there was some doubt by the police as to whether the girl consented. Did Winston ever get arrested? No. Why? Because it goes back to my point of reasonable doubt vs. any doubt.

To the other point, yes, you are jaded. I know all about girls that make fake rape charges. I personally know of one who did. That doesn't change the fact that a school is entitled to have a code of conduct policy, and it's perfectly reasonable for a school to consider 10 guys gangbanging a drunk girl to be a violation of said policy.
Can you film a sex act without understanding or permission? The kids showed video to the cops. If she was unwilling in any way they are arrested. It doesn't need to be rape it's as simple as I didn't consent to a video. Yet no charges....
 
Can you film a sex act without understanding or permission? The kids showed video to the cops. If she was unwilling in any way they are arrested. It doesn't need to be rape it's as simple as I didn't consent to a video. Yet no charges....

Again, the process has broken down. THE SCHOOL DOESN'T HAVE TO GO BY THE SAME STANDARD AS THE POLICE.

By the way, consent to sex and consent to video are two separate things. Did she agree to let the film her, or was she even aware that they filmed her? You are assuming she did.The article doesn't say. The article also doesn't say if actual sex acts were filmed. You are assuming that also.
 
Can you film a sex act without understanding or permission? The kids showed video to the cops. If she was unwilling in any way they are arrested. It doesn't need to be rape it's as simple as I didn't consent to a video. Yet no charges....
Ask Hulk Hogan. Maybe the cops are originally from Tallahassee.
 
Yeah. I'm not feeling a lot of sympathy for the players based on that article. But I don't want to pass judgement on them based on one article; I really don't know anything about the situation. However, if the U of Minn, who is closer to the situation, decides that the players didn't live up to standards the University set and if they decide to pull the players' scholarships, kick them off the team, and expel them from the school, I won't second-guess that either.
University standards are likely stricter than legal standards.
 
Again, no, the video doesn't show that. You can't get it through your head that the criminal standard and school standard are two different things. So to answer your question, no they wouldn't have arrested the kids if there was any doubt. The criminal standard is reasonable doubt, not any doubt. I'll give you a perfect example. In the Jameis Winston thing, there was some doubt by the police as to whether the girl consented. Did Winston ever get arrested? No. Why? Because it goes back to my point of reasonable doubt vs. any doubt.

To the other point, yes, you are jaded. I know all about girls that make fake rape charges. I personally know of one who did. That doesn't change the fact that a school is entitled to have a code of conduct policy, and it's perfectly reasonable for a school to consider 10 guys gangbanging a drunk girl to be a violation of said policy.
One may be suspended from a college or university for cheating/plagiarism. They are not illegal but are part expected student behavior standards.
 
still think its ridiculous that the players are doing this.
I don't have a problem, no charges filed,why are they suspended. What rules did the break, don't get me wrong if there was a sexual assault then throw the book at them. I can understand the players being upset.
 
One may be suspended from a college or university for cheating/plagiarism. They are not illegal but are part expected student behavior standards.
What student standard did they violate, I am not trying to be a bone head but would like clarification.
 
Again, the process has broken down. THE SCHOOL DOESN'T HAVE TO GO BY THE SAME STANDARD AS THE POLICE.

By the way, consent to sex and consent to video are two separate things. Did she agree to let the film her, or was she even aware that they filmed her? You are assuming she did.The article doesn't say. The article also doesn't say if actual sex acts were filmed. You are assuming that also.
If she didn't know they were filming her that in itself is illegal. The cops used the video to prove consent so it must have had sexual acts.
 
This happened to a much lesser extent to the benefit of MD a few years ago. Dez Wells was initially charged for assault while at Xavier. Charges were then dropped but the school expelled him anyway. MD scooped him up as a transfer and he was awarded a hardship waiver to play immediately.

Obviously I can't speak for these Minnesota players (or condone whatever did/didn't happen), but Dez ended up being an outstanding role model at MD.

This is bigger scale obviously and now the rest of the team is involved, but similar situation.

Side note: a friend of mine at the Big Ten let me know that NIU will take Minnesota's place if they do in fact not play.
 
I didn't miss it. There was a total of 90 seconds of video. So, my point still stands.

Wrong again. Minnesota site says the third and longest video is 90 seconds. I know, you misspoke again and your point still stands. This is getting silly now.
 
Again I have read through the comments and the collective anti male bias is overwhelming. Feminism has certainly succeeded in brainwashing many into believing that when it comes to male/female relations, anything that goes wrong it is ALWAYS the male who is the responsible party.
1) I would love to see Minnesotas code of conduct where it says no gang bangs or multiple male partners in one session are not allowed.
2) As far as I know from the limited evidence I have read about, the female was a WILLING participant to the point that the local law enforcement found nothing that rose to a level of a crime.
3) why is it that so many are willing to just "take the word" of the woman as gospel. Why should young men who were vetted through local law enforcement and found to not have committed a crime now have to reprove their innocence to their university?
 
On a related note, any of these horny guys play QB? Any DT's? I'm assuming they wil also get hardship waivers.
 
Lolololol.

Players end boycott and will play.

As i said in the initial post, whole protest was idiotic.
 
If she didn't know they were filming her that in itself is illegal. The cops used the video to prove consent so it must have had sexual acts.

No, it must not have. Here's a quote from the article:

"During an 8 second clip, the woman appears lucid, alert, somewhat playful and fully conscious; she does not appear to be objecting to anything at this time."

Well, "somewhat playful" isn't a sure-fire description of something sexual by any means. If somebody described that to me in just a general context, the first thing that would come to my mind would be flirting at best, no a description of people having sex.

The article goes on to say that all the videos totaled 90 seconds. Given the description of the first video, it doesn't sound like anything sexual was filmed to me.

Again I have read through the comments and the collective anti male bias is overwhelming. Feminism has certainly succeeded in brainwashing many into believing that when it comes to male/female relations, anything that goes wrong it is ALWAYS the male who is the responsible party.
1) I would love to see Minnesotas code of conduct where it says no gang bangs or multiple male partners in one session are not allowed.
2) As far as I know from the limited evidence I have read about, the female was a WILLING participant to the point that the local law enforcement found nothing that rose to a level of a crime.
3) why is it that so many are willing to just "take the word" of the woman as gospel. Why should young men who were vetted through local law enforcement and found to not have committed a crime now have to reprove their innocence to their university?

Here are the issues with the points you raised:

1) It's not that simple. The university's issue is consent (and of course alcohol plays consent as well). This is a quote from the article:
She estimated there were at least a dozen men. "I was shoving people off of me," she testified. "They kept ignoring my pleas for help. Anything I said they laughed. They tried to cheer people on."

About an hour and a half later, she said, she was allowed to leave
. She called her sister, who told her to go to the hospital immediately, where she was given a rape exam, while her mother made a report to Minneapolis police.
I underlined the pertinent section. She called her sister after this happened, went to the hospital, and called the police. Well, from the university's point of view, this is a little more troubling. It's not simply the fact that she had sex with some guys. It's the fact that right after it happened, she went to the hospital and the police were called. If I was a school administrator, that would indicate to me that there was something about this encounter the girl wasn't comfortable with. When you combine that with the alcohol factor, as an administrator, that would make me think this group of guys took advantage of a situation that was in their favor.

2) Again, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A CRIME. I don't know why some of you have such a hard time understanding that. The university is in charge of thousands of young people who are studying/living on their premises. They have to maintain a safe environment. I can definitely see why they would deem 10 guys taking advantage of a situation to gangbang a drunk girl as compromising a safe environment.

3) For my part, that's not the case. If you want criticism of the woman's behavior, I can certainly do that as well. I'm not taking her side. My problem is, the boycott by the football team. It's stupid. The university didn't suspend the players just to be doing it. They did it because there was a serious charge made against some players, and the university found the behavior of the players troubling, even if it wasn't illegal. In other words, I'm taking the side of the university. They made a decision for the wellbeing of their institution. I'm just offering this analysis to describe why they might have arrived at that decision. If the players want to get mad at anyone, then blame their teammates for using poor judgment.
 
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Nuts if you were at the Homecoming game in Minnesota in October you would rethink your post.
What we saw from the RU section was a half empty stadium for a Winning record Gopher team. The support for Minnesota Football program is real low right now, even RU had a better home attendance this year.
You would lose your dollars to donuts bet. Guaranteed.

The stadium was not "half empty," no need to make stuff up, and attendance for a game that started at 11AM local time, against a God-awful team that had just gotten lambasted 160-7 the previous 3 weeks, has very little bearing on potential attendance for a bowl game in San Diego. Now...what will affect it...if they go...is this garbage these kids are pulling.
 
What student standard did they violate, I am not trying to be a bone head but would like clarification.


For legal reasons that all revolve around confidentiality and liability the school has said in several statements that they are not permitted to release the reasons which led to the suspensions. clearly there is not enough evidence for the police to charge them for criminal behavior but, as has been stated bu several posters, violating school and/or team rules is very different. I find it hard to believe the school would suspend ten players before a bowl game unless they had some valid reasons for doing so. But they are not at liberty to discuss it with the public. They would be sued by the families of the players up the wazzou!
 
For legal reasons that all revolve around confidentiality and liability the school has said in several statements that they are not permitted to release the reasons which led to the suspensions. clearly there is not enough evidence for the police to charge them for criminal behavior but, as has been stated bu several posters, violating school and/or team rules is very different. I find it hard to believe the school would suspend ten players before a bowl game unless they had some valid reasons for doing so. But they are not at liberty to discuss it with the public. They would be sued by the families of the players up the wazzou!

The players were found to have violated certain portions of U of M's student conduct code as well as U of M's sexual assault and sexual harassment policies.

The U of M EOAA and Minneapolis PD reports on this incident are out there on the interwebs today. Go find them and read them.
 
She claims it wasn't consensual but video obviously said differently. Again, if there was any doubt wouldn't they have arrested the kids for filming a sexual act without consent? Fact that didn't even happen makes me question her story. Maybe I'm jaded. Few years ago I worked with a HS kid. D1 athlete was at a family BBQ. Hooks up with a girl in a bedroom, friends father reads about it on her social media, tells girls dad. Girl panics and says she was raped. Kid get kicked out of school etc etc. no prosecution, no charges, and girl later admits it was BS. Yes it's case by case but at some point girls who lie about this crap need to be held accountable.


A portion of the video. The first guy is usually consensual. Guys 2-10 AFTER she passes out is usually NOT consensual.

The suspension has another dynamic. They had an UNDERAGE recruit at the party and he participated. I would not be surprised if charges are eventually filed. The police probably were probably not looking into that aspect when they checked the video.
 
For legal reasons that all revolve around confidentiality and liability the school has said in several statements that they are not permitted to release the reasons which led to the suspensions. clearly there is not enough evidence for the police to charge them for criminal behavior but, as has been stated bu several posters, violating school and/or team rules is very different. I find it hard to believe the school would suspend ten players before a bowl game unless they had some valid reasons for doing so. But they are not at liberty to discuss it with the public. They would be sued by the families of the players up the wazzou!


Do you think group sex with a minor qualifies as code of conduct violation?
 
Again, no, the video doesn't show that. You can't get it through your head that the criminal standard and school standard are two different things. So to answer your question, no they wouldn't have arrested the kids if there was any doubt. The criminal standard is reasonable doubt, not any doubt. I'll give you a perfect example. In the Jameis Winston thing, there was some doubt by the police as to whether the girl consented. Did Winston ever get arrested? No. Why? Because it goes back to my point of reasonable doubt vs. any doubt.

To the other point, yes, you are jaded. I know all about girls that make fake rape charges. I personally know of one who did. That doesn't change the fact that a school is entitled to have a code of conduct policy, and it's perfectly reasonable for a school to consider 10 guys gangbanging a drunk girl to be a violation of said policy.

Why isn't the girl also violating code of conduct if consensual gangbangs are prohibited. Sexist policy. Sounds like the girl might also be guilty of sex with a minor.
 
The players were found to have violated certain portions of U of M's
student conduct code as well as U of M's sexual assault and sexual harassment policies

The U of M EOAA and Minneapolis PD reports on this incident are out there on the interwebs today. Go find them and read them.


When did I say the players didn't violate codes of conduct? All I said was that the school will not and can not be specific about what the players did if it is only violations of codes of conduct. Clearly they violated "Certain potionns" of the codes. If what they did was criminal the police would reveal the violations. Since the police decided there was not enough evidence for criminal charges the suspensions must be because they violated the codes of conduct. The school will not reveal what eexactly they did. We know it was related to the sexual assault charges but specifics will probably not be forthcoming. Since the boycott has been ended and the suspensions are still in effect the rest of the players have probably been made aware that they reasons will not be made public and their boycott was not going to accomplish anything.
 
Do you think group sex with a minor qualifies as code of conduct violation?

Of course it does (I would hope, I do not know the Minn codes of conduct). I never said they didn't. I said the police have decided that what they did is not criminal, (at least there is not enough evidence to file criminal charges). As a result the only thing they could be suspended for is a violation of the school and/or the athletic department's codes of coduct. As such the violations, by law, can not be discussed in public. So the actual details of the violations will not be revealed.
 
When did I say the players didn't violate codes of conduct? All I said was that the school will not and can not be specific about what the players did if it is only violations of codes of conduct. Clearly they violated "Certain potionns" of the codes. If what they did was criminal the police would reveal the violations. Since the police decided there was not enough evidence for criminal charges the suspensions must be because they violated the codes of conduct. The school will not reveal what eexactly they did. We know it was related to the sexual assault charges but specifics will probably not be forthcoming. Since the boycott has been ended and the suspensions are still in effect the rest of the players have probably been made aware that they reasons will not be made public and their boycott was not going to accomplish anything.

I was really addressing the comment above yours, but couldn't find it on it's own. My bad.
 
Incidentally, I've never been much interested in having sex with 10 guys and 1 girl. All they had to do was leave out the girl (and of course the under age dude) and all this trouble could have been avoided. Would that have been a code of conduct violation if there was no girl in the mix?
 
Why isn't the girl also violating code of conduct if consensual gangbangs are prohibited. Sexist policy. Sounds like the girl might also be guilty of sex with a minor.

Try accurately reading what I wrote. You haven't done so.

The girl is claiming this was not consensual. That's the big key here. I realize the police believe it was. Here's the problem,

THE LEGAL DEFINITION OF CONSENT, AND THE SCHOOL'S DEFINITION ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

From the school's point of view, you have a girl who's been drinking. She meets a guy, and goes up to his apartment, where she ends up with 9 other guys. Then immediately afterwards, she goes to the hospital and calls the police. It's certainly understandable why school administrators would be uncomfortable with that situation, and not completely convinced that all parties gave consent.
 
[


I definitely agree. I can't imagine what it's like when you're the last guy.
[sick]
Judging by some on this thread, they wouldn't mind being the last guy. It's all consensual, right?
 
Just a technical sort of question: The University has told the suspended students the reasons for their suspension, right? Then why can't the suspended players tell the rest of football team why they were suspended?
 
http://www.espn.com/college-footbal...otball-team-ends-boycott-prepare-holiday-bowl
http://www.startribune.com/gophers-...-toward-ending-boycott-of-football/407201426/

Players met with university officials and agreed to end the boycott and participate in the bowl. The University did not reinstate the suspended players.

The articles linked above also note that TV station KSTP released the police report and university EOAA report: http://kstp.com/sports/university-o...eport-gophers-football-players/4347059/?cat=1
 
How long before Claeys is gone? The day he was hired people from Minnesota called him their version of Flood. Hired to save the class and a program setup to win. Just like Rutgers' 2012 team should have won 10+ games and the BE it didn't. Minnesota won 8 games this year, but things were setup to win around 10 games. The very same issues that hit Rutgers under Flood are now starting to hit Minnesota.
 
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