National Rankings

[William J Moses]

Out of curiosity I went to the wrestlestat website to see our wrestlers rankings. I noticed that you could look at previous weeks or years rankings so I decided to see how our wrestlers started the year and compare that to their current rankings and compare that to the previous years results. i did the comparison as a team. My method was to take all of the wrestler standing add them together and divide by the number of wrestler. As an example if we only had two wrestler and their rankings were 2 and 4 the average ranking would be 3.

Last year our average wrestler started the season ranked 84th and finished the year ranked 97. That was using all 33 listed wrestlers. Those numbers didn’t tell me much so I decided to do a comparison of the top 20 preseason ranked wrestler to see how they improved. For what it’s worth our preseason top 20 were ranked 43rd and at the end of the season they were ranked 73rd.

This year our average wrestler started at 91st and is currently 100th. As for the top 20 our beginning average was 49th and is currently 68th. I’ll do the comparison again at the end of the season.

 

[Harleyr1]

Out of curiosity I went to the wrestlestat website to see our wrestlers rankings. I noticed that you could look at previous weeks or years rankings so I decided to see how our wrestlers started the year and compare that to their current rankings and compare that to the previous years results. i did the comparison as a team. My method was to take all of the wrestler standing add them together and divide by the number of wrestler. As an example if we only had two wrestler and their rankings were 2 and 4 the average ranking would be 3.

Last year our average wrestler started the season ranked 84th and finished the year ranked 97. That was using all 33 listed wrestlers. Those numbers didn’t tell me much so I decided to do a comparison of the top 20 preseason ranked wrestler to see how they improved. For what it’s worth our preseason top 20 were ranked 43rd and at the end of the season they were ranked 73rd.

This year our average wrestler started at 91st and is currently 100th. As for the top 20 our beginning average was 49th and is currently 68th. I’ll do the comparison again at the end of the season.

Who cares lol

 

[William J Moses]

I decided to take a look at our preseason top 10 to see how they performed. Last year the top ten started at 22nd and finished at 47th. This year they started at 22nd and are currently ranked 29th.

 

[William J Moses]

Who cares lol

I do and I hope team does. It's hard to picture the coaches and wrestlers not caring. How would you evaluate performance or is that not important?

 

[koleszar]

I do and I hope team does. It's hard to picture the coaches and wrestlers not caring. How would you evaluate performance or is that not important?

William, I'm telling you, don't converse or engage with that guy. You're a good poster, he's completely useless to this board. His response to every post is, "You're a d*ck or idiot, you're the problem because you don't donate more money" that's his only take on everything. Go through his history for yourself and you'll see he only attacks posters and adds nothing.

 

[njsportsphan]

Interesting breakdown.

 

[UnderHooks]

I decided to take a look at our preseason top 10 to see how they performed. Last year the top ten started at 22nd and finished at 47th. This year they started at 22nd and are currently ranked 29th.

Careful sharing and facts or stats that are in anyway disparaging of the program. The lap dogs will come out with their pitchforks if you dare make any critique or suggestion for improvement

 

[SCNJ]

Out of curiosity I went to the wrestlestat website to see our wrestlers rankings. I noticed that you could look at previous weeks or years rankings so I decided to see how our wrestlers started the year and compare that to their current rankings and compare that to the previous years results. i did the comparison as a team. My method was to take all of the wrestler standing add them together and divide by the number of wrestler. As an example if we only had two wrestler and their rankings were 2 and 4 the average ranking would be 3.

Last year our average wrestler started the season ranked 84th and finished the year ranked 97. That was using all 33 listed wrestlers. Those numbers didn’t tell me much so I decided to do a comparison of the top 20 preseason ranked wrestler to see how they improved. For what it’s worth our preseason top 20 were ranked 43rd and at the end of the season they were ranked 73rd.

This year our average wrestler started at 91st and is currently 100th. As for the top 20 our beginning average was 49th and is currently 68th. I’ll do the comparison again at the end of the season.

Not sure if this means anything. If I understand correctly, you averaged out the numbers for every wrestler on the roster? Not sure why the rankings for guys like Epperly, Hermes, and Fongaro for example should be indicative of our status. Just doesn’t seem like a fair thing to try and average out.

I don’t even think doing it with starters only is particularly fair. In theory, if we had the #1 guy at 9 weight classes and the #300 at the remaining weight class, our “average” ranking would be 31. That’s not really accurate. Some numbers just don’t make sense to average.

 

[William J Moses]

In total the number may have very little importance. There were some team members whose improvement in those numbers was amazing, Brian Soldano went from 150th to 11th and as a non-starter Sebastino Nini went from 277th to 121st. Taken by itself it has very little meaning but it would be nice to see an overall improvement.

 

[Harleyr1]

In total the number may have very little importance. There were some team members whose improvement in those numbers was amazing, Brian Soldano went from 150th to 11th and as a non-starter Sebastino Nini went from 277th to 121st. Taken by itself it has very little meaning but it would be nice to see an overall improvement.

Exactly very little meaning ...

 

[Harleyr1]

William, I'm telling you, don't converse or engage with that guy. You're a good poster, he's completely useless to this board. His response to every post is, "You're a d*ck or idiot, you're the problem because you don't donate more money" that's his only take on everything. Go through his history for yourself and you'll see he only attacks posters and adds nothing.

I didn't attack him at all ..the truth is exactly what he said ..those rankings of the whole roster mean very little so who cares ....much like the coach baiting and vitriol of the team that you add means so little

 

[PessimisticallyHopefulPragmatist]

Out of curiosity I went to the wrestlestat website to see our wrestlers rankings. I noticed that you could look at previous weeks or years rankings so I decided to see how our wrestlers started the year and compare that to their current rankings and compare that to the previous years results. i did the comparison as a team. My method was to take all of the wrestler standing add them together and divide by the number of wrestler. As an example if we only had two wrestler and their rankings were 2 and 4 the average ranking would be 3.

Last year our average wrestler started the season ranked 84th and finished the year ranked 97. That was using all 33 listed wrestlers. Those numbers didn’t tell me much so I decided to do a comparison of the top 20 preseason ranked wrestler to see how they improved. For what it’s worth our preseason top 20 were ranked 43rd and at the end of the season they were ranked 73rd.

This year our average wrestler started at 91st and is currently 100th. As for the top 20 our beginning average was 49th and is currently 68th. I’ll do the comparison again at the end of the season.

bluemountain started a thread in November to track ranking movement. I contributed. You can do the updates.
https://rutgers.forums.rivals.com/t...-we-have-time-to-move-up.269885/#post-6567920

 

[William J Moses]

I didn't attack him at all ..the truth is exactly what he said ..those rankings of the whole roster mean very little so who cares ....much like the coach baiting and vitriol of the team that you add means so little

Do you have any suggestions as to how best to evaluate the teams performance? If you know what's of no value, you must surely know what is of value.

 

[Bobbynieds]

fyi
Nebraska vs PSU on BTN now

 

[SCNJ]

Do you have any suggestions as to how best to evaluate the teams performance? If you know what's of no value, you must surely know what is of value.

There’s enough places that post individual, team dual and team tournament rankings (Flo, intermat, coaches, several other media outlets) that are generally pretty accurate. I think an overall average of those numbers would be adequate. Appreciate the time you put into doing the math but unfortunately I don’t think your formula is accurate. Or at least the interpretation isn’t.

For example, your calculations had us at a an average of 100. If you do the same calculations for the Penn State roster which is the undisputed best in the country, their average ranking is 75. So without doing the math for all of these teams, your left with a number that has no meaning since there’s no context. How many teams have an average ranking under 100?

It’s also skewed in favor of teams with lower roster numbers. Since each team only has 1 starter, any team with a large number of reserves will have several wrestlers ranked 100+, 200+, etc. The math is flawed.

 

[William J Moses]

I decided to take a look at our preseason top 10 to see how they performed. Last year the top ten started at 22nd and finished at 47th. This year they started at 22nd and are currently ranked 29th.

I did this for our top 10. I don't think the math is flawed the problem is with how to interpret the information. I was originally looking to see if our wrestlers moved up or down in the standing. The numbers simply show that our wrestler have lost standing as the season progressed.

 

[William J Moses]

There are 79 D1 wrestling programs. I might do the same analysis for the numbers 1, 40 and 79 teams and see if we can get anything meaningful from the information.

 

[wngarbarini]

We are 12-5 in the best conference in the country ranked #14 in the country. Can we get better? Sure. Folks are never satisfied. Most of you are half empty folks. That is how I feel!

 

[KidDagger]

I did this for our top 10. I don't think the math is flawed the problem is with how to interpret the information. I was originally looking to see if our wrestlers moved up or down in the standing. The numbers simply show that our wrestler have lost standing as the season progressed.

Top 10 as our 10 starters or guys ranked in top 10? Another set of data point is always nice but not sure taking all rankings from 33 roster spot(or only top10?) n avg it all out is a good indicator.. there also should be more weight for higher ranked wrestlers also… a very simple example say 1st ranked wrestler and 29th ranked wrestler 1+29/2= 15 and a 14th+16th ranked/2=15 im taking 1+29th all day..for nationals..

I think a simpler way to see if our wrestlers lost/improved standings as the season progress is to just look at where our guys were ranked earlier on intermat/flo/etc compared to now…

One point earlier we had all 10 guys ranked.. talks of most talented Team ever and possibly qualifying every weight + multiple AA… unfortunate we lost Butler/Clark to injury..

Stocks up since early season + Shawver, Cetta, Turley, Moore

 

[William J Moses]

It may not feel like we have improved as a team but our top 10 are much better than at this point last season. Yes our guys have fallen a bit in the standing but not nearly as much as last year. The B10 season takes a lot out of a team.

 

[William J Moses]

Something I did out of curiosity feels like it’s turning in a doctoral thesis

 

[SCNJ]

Something I did out of curiosity feels like it’s turning in a doctoral thesis

Haha welcome to the internet

 

[SCNJ]

It may not feel like we have improved as a team but our top 10 are much better than at this point last season. Yes our guys have fallen a bit in the standing but not nearly as much as last year. The B10 season takes a lot out of a team.

This is true. Without context it seems like some of our guys are really falling off, but I don’t know how you overlook our last 4 matches prior to Maryland were Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State. That’s four teams all ranked higher than us. One or two we probably could have won if things broke our way a little more.

Yes they were all losses and people don’t want moral victories but it was the first time ever that the Minnesota match could have been had and maybe the 2nd time ever that we had a path to upsetting Ohio State. We’re still headed in the right direction.

 

[Harleyr1]

We are 12-5 in the best conference in the country ranked #14 in the country. Can we get better? Sure. Folks are never satisfied. Most of you are half empty folks. That is how I feel!

And they call us names for enjoying what we have unlike them who do nothing but criticize our coaches ,call for Goody's job, rip the effort of some of the kids yet I guarantee none of them have experienced the grind of Division 1 wrestling let alone a Big 10 schedule...

 

[William J Moses]

What I plan on doing is use the same methodology but only for the big ten teams. It does make the information useless when I include how EIWA, MAC or any of the smaller conferences.

 

[PessimisticallyHopefulPragmatist]

And they call us names...

That's quite rich.

 

[PessimisticallyHopefulPragmatist]

What I plan on doing is use the same methodology but only for the big ten teams. It does make the information useless when I include how EIWA, MAC or any of the smaller conferences.

Fact and data can be important and useful. Wrestlestat isn't the best source for ranking information; they're on another planet with their methodology. There are other sources that are more accurate and closer in agreement with one another. I use Intermat. If I correctly understand what you are doing, it's to show ranking changes throughout the season or since the beginning of the season.

I posted the link to a thread started by bluemountain that started to look at the ranking movement early into the season. I don't know if the conference is all that relevant in national rankings. The top 10 in each weight class is loaded with B1G wrestlers, all of whom wrestle tough schedules. I will include below the preseason Intermat rankings.

2023-2024 preseason rankings

Weight Class Name National Ranking Class
125 Dean Peterson No. 6 Sophomore
133 Dylan Shawver No. 16 Sophomore
141 Mitch Moore No. 7 Senior
149 Jacob Butler No. 25 Junior
157 Andrew Clark No. 21 Junior
165 Anthony White No. 24 Sophomore
174 Jackson Turley No. 28 Senior
184 Brian Soldano No. 10 Sophomore
197 John Poznanski No. 12 Sophomore
HWT Yaraslau Slavikouski No. 6 Senior

 

[KidDagger]

Fact and data can be important and useful. Wrestlestat isn't the best source for ranking information; they're on another planet with their methodology. There are other sources that are more accurate and closer in agreement with one another. I use Intermat. If I correctly understand what you are doing, it's to show ranking changes throughout the season or since the beginning of the season.

I posted the link to a thread started by bluemountain that started to look at the ranking movement early into the season. I don't know if the conference is all that relevant in national rankings. The top 10 in each weight class is loaded with B1G wrestlers, all of whom wrestle tough schedules. I will include below the preseason Intermat rankings.

2023-2024 preseason rankings

Weight Class Name National Ranking Class
125 Dean Peterson No. 6 Sophomore
133 Dylan Shawver No. 16 Sophomore
141 Mitch Moore No. 7 Senior
149 Jacob Butler No. 25 Junior
157 Andrew Clark No. 21 Junior
165 Anthony White No. 24 Sophomore
174 Jackson Turley No. 28 Senior
184 Brian Soldano No. 10 Sophomore
197 John Poznanski No. 12 Sophomore
HWT Yaraslau Slavikouski No. 6 Senior

This is literally what I suggested and wow… I did not remember Moore being ranked highly as 7 preseason..😲

 

[KidDagger]

This is true. Without context it seems like some of our guys are really falling off, but I don’t know how you overlook our last 4 matches prior to Maryland were Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio State, and Penn State. That’s four teams all ranked higher than us. One or two we probably could have won if things broke our way a little more.

Yes they were all losses and people don’t want moral victories but it was the first time ever that the Minnesota match could have been had and maybe the 2nd time ever that we had a path to upsetting Ohio State. We’re still headed in the right direction.

People do want moral victories… saying “we’re still headed in the right direction” feels good but truth is.. since 2019 the direction feels a little stagnant.. especially after last postseason… we can still turn it around this postseason tho..

 

[SCNJ]

People do want moral victories… saying “we’re still headed in the right direction” feels good but truth is.. since 2019 the direction feels a little stagnant.. especially after last postseason… we can still turn it around this postseason tho..

2019 is going to be an outlier year when you look at the overall trajectory of the team. We have 2 national champs ever, both happened in the same year. It’s not realistic to expect that to be the standard for this program, at least right now.

 

[KidDagger]

2019 is going to be an outlier year when you look at the overall trajectory of the team. We have 2 national champs ever, both happened in the same year. It’s not realistic to expect that to be the standard for this program, at least right now.

Right, 2019 I was more meaning that it was the first time our program finished in the top 10 at nationals.. everyone was hoping this would open the floodgates for us to become a “perennial top 10 team”.. maybe it’s not realistic.. but we really need a good/acceptable? performance this year to feel we’re still headed in the right direction..

 

[bluemountain1967]

There has been much comment on this year's performance. Some are very pleased with our results and others believe that we are underperforming. William Moses has taken a good stab at the individual performance of our wrestlers. It took a lot of work on his part.


I looked at our performance from a dual meet standpoint. Assuming that we beat Bloomsburg we will finish 13 and 5. Should we consider this a good result?

The teams we wrestled and their current dual meet record are shown below.

Bloomsburg 4-16
Buffalo 9-12
Cal Poly 6-5
Duke 4-12
Edinboro 4-11
Indiana 6-5
Maryland 4-7
Michigan 7-4
MIchigan State 9-6
Minnesota 11-2
Ohio State 15-2
Penn State 11-0
Penn 5-5
Princeton 5-7
Purdue 6-10
Rider 7-6
Va. Tech 9-3

The overall record of our competition is 101 victories and 113 loses for a 47% winning percentage
The teams we lost to have won 53 and lost 11 meets for 83% winning percentage
The teams we beat won 69 matches and lost 102 for a 40% winning percentage.

Other than Virginia Tech, we did not face a challenging opponent outside of the Big Ten. Our Big Ten record is 4 and 4. Coach Goodale has no control over the Big Ten schedule and has control over the out of conference schedule.

What do posters think about our out of conference schedule and has it prepared us for tournament time. Please note that many starters did not competed at the Midlands and no one enter the Cliff Keen in Vegas or the Southern Scuffle.

 

[koleszar]

There has been much comment on this year's performance. Some are very pleased with our results and others believe that we are underperforming. William Moses has taken a good stab at the individual performance of our wrestlers. It took a lot of work on his part.


I looked at our performance from a dual meet standpoint. Assuming that we beat Bloomsburg we will finish 13 and 5. Should we consider this a good result?

The teams we wrestled and their current dual meet record are shown below.

Bloomsburg 4-16
Buffalo 9-12
Cal Poly 6-5
Duke 4-12
Edinboro 4-11
Indiana 6-5
Maryland 4-7
Michigan 7-4
MIchigan State 9-6
Minnesota 11-2
Ohio State 15-2
Penn State 11-0
Penn 5-5
Princeton 5-7
Purdue 6-10
Rider 7-6
Va. Tech 9-3

The overall record of our competition is 101 victories and 113 loses for a 47% winning percentage
The teams we lost to have won 53 and lost 11 meets for 83% winning percentage
The teams we beat won 69 matches and lost 102 for a 40% winning percentage.

Other than Virginia Tech, we did not face a challenging opponent outside of the Big Ten. Our Big Ten record is 4 and 4. Coach Goodale has no control over the Big Ten schedule and has control over the out of conference schedule.

What do posters think about our out of conference schedule and has it prepared us for tournament time. Please note that many starters did not competed at the Midlands and no one enter the Cliff Keen in Vegas or the Southern Scuffle.

IMO way too many duals. Knock off 3 to 4 of them and join a tournament as a team. Midlands was a good one and I think better prepares the team rather than wrestling say, Bloomsburg, Edinboro, Buffalo. I do like the West coast trip at the beginning of the season, gives the team a good bonding experience and a chance to get away from home.

 

[KidDagger]

There has been much comment on this year's performance. Some are very pleased with our results and others believe that we are underperforming. William Moses has taken a good stab at the individual performance of our wrestlers. It took a lot of work on his part.


I looked at our performance from a dual meet standpoint. Assuming that we beat Bloomsburg we will finish 13 and 5. Should we consider this a good result?

The teams we wrestled and their current dual meet record are shown below.

Bloomsburg 4-16
Buffalo 9-12
Cal Poly 6-5
Duke 4-12
Edinboro 4-11
Indiana 6-5
Maryland 4-7
Michigan 7-4
MIchigan State 9-6
Minnesota 11-2
Ohio State 15-2
Penn State 11-0
Penn 5-5
Princeton 5-7
Purdue 6-10
Rider 7-6
Va. Tech 9-3

The overall record of our competition is 101 victories and 113 loses for a 47% winning percentage
The teams we lost to have won 53 and lost 11 meets for 83% winning percentage
The teams we beat won 69 matches and lost 102 for a 40% winning percentage.

Other than Virginia Tech, we did not face a challenging opponent outside of the Big Ten. Our Big Ten record is 4 and 4. Coach Goodale has no control over the Big Ten schedule and has control over the out of conference schedule.

What do posters think about our out of conference schedule and has it prepared us for tournament time. Please note that many starters did not competed at the Midlands and no one enter the Cliff Keen in Vegas or the Southern Scuffle.

13-5 doesn’t mean much imo…who we beat matters more then the actual record imo.. if we wanna be undefeated then just schedule all the weakest teams even d3 teams.. I rather us beat minn and v tech this year and have a losing record facing tough teams then be undefeated facing Bloomsburg 15x.. think that would have more meaning…

Anyways, as many have pointed out, the b10 schedule is such a grind that maybe scheduling a cup cake out of conference schedule is best to build up wins and confidence…the b10 grind is so tough that im starting to think its a detriment and it might be easier to be in a soft conference, not have to meet all the top b10 dogs and get a good seed for nationals (like how yara got 6th seed last season)…

I used to think going to midlands/scuffle/tournies is a good way to gauge and best to prepare for nationals but looking at PSU it might not be.. they dont do tournies anymore and basically just do b10 schedule n wrestle as few matches possible to try to get as many ppl healthy to nationals as possible… until there is a rule change or a dual meet championship probably best to copy the PSU template…

 

[njsportsphan]

I'd like to see us go against a Big 12 from the Dakota's or Iowa and enter CKLV. Get rid of the Edinboro's, Bloomsburg and Buffalos. Nothing really gained unless our backups are wrestling. The only California team worth wrestling is Stanford now, although I know it's become more of a recruiting move on that front.

 

[William J Moses]

I just crunched thru some numbers 2023. I took the pre-season ranking of the highest ranked wrestler in each weight class on all Big Ten teams, added them together and divided by 10. I already know one question "What Penn State started the season with the 3rd best ranking". While they do have 5 number 1 ranked wrestlers they also have starters ranked 55, 23 12 32 and 31. Remember I didn't start this to praise or criticize the team, it's to find a way to evaluate our progress.

Illinois	44.3​
Indiana	59.8​
Iowa	12.5​
Maryland	52.9​
Michigan	22.3​
Michigan State	32.4​
Minnesota	17.5​
Nebraska	22.5​
Northwestern	19.6​
Ohio	15.1​
Purdue	59.3​
Penn State	15.8​
Rutgers	27.2​
Wisconsin	37.6​

 

[William J Moses]

I took a quick look at how Penn States ranking change by the end of the season. The starting team improved from an average rank of 15.8 to a season final of 7.2. The improvement is from the lower half of the lineup. They started the season with an average rank of 30.8 and improved that to 12.6.

 

[RUMike]

William, great data analytics! The big question is what conclusions can be drawn from this.

 

[William J Moses]

William, great data analytics! The big question is what conclusions can be drawn from this.

I don't know yet. I have to finish sorting through last years year end results and see if i can get anything meaningful from the information.

 

[DUForever]

I just crunched thru some numbers 2023. I took the pre-season ranking of the highest ranked wrestler in each weight class on all Big Ten teams, added them together and divided by 10. I already know one question "What Penn State started the season with the 3rd best ranking". While they do have 5 number 1 ranked wrestlers they also have starters ranked 55, 23 12 32 and 31. Remember I didn't start this to praise or criticize the team, it's to find a way to evaluate our progress.

Illinois	44.3​
Indiana	59.8​
Iowa	12.5​
Maryland	52.9​
Michigan	22.3​
Michigan State	32.4​
Minnesota	17.5​
Nebraska	22.5​
Northwestern	19.6​
Ohio	15.1​
Purdue	59.3​
Penn State	15.8​
Rutgers	27.2​
Wisconsin	37.6​

Comparing this to the actual placing in the B1G tournament would be interesting keeping in mind that it’s a comparison between subjective and actual. I was a bit surprised to see where northwestern came in preseason.