Well I'll grant you one thing, this:
is certainly difficult to argue with. Must be the superior intellect.
Nebby Covid
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Posted about this days ago, which is part of why I'm a lot less concerned with omicron than many others. My predictions on case trajectories, hospitalizations and deaths (elsewhere - not really allowed to post them here) have been pretty good for omicron - which wasn't that hard really - there's no good reason why we wouldn't largely follow South Africa on this. Also, ICUs per hospitalization are much lower than for delta - only reason our deaths are higher than SA's per capita in this wave is that we still had a building delta peak through mid/late Dec and those people are dying now. Omicron, in many ways, is the best thing that's ever happened to this pandemic - way better than continuing with the more deadly delta - and if it speeds up endemicity, all the better. Just have to get through this wave.Half of hospitalizations listed as covid are incidencental..remember that when they hype fear
Nearly half of COVID-19 hospitalizations in Massachusetts are ‘incidental’ cases, new state data show - The Boston Globe
New state data show 51 percent of COVID hospitalizations in Massachusetts on Tuesday were patients who were seriously ill from the virus, while 49 percent of patients were admitted for other reasons but happened to test positive upon admission.www.bostonglobe.com
We are very lucky, though, that the original virus didn't have the transmissibility of omicron combined with the virulence of the original strain or delta, as that would've led to probably 25K deaths per day in that first wave before we even knew what hit us and could've led to 2MM deaths in just a few months, before vaccines would become available - and that would've probably only been prevented by a China style lockdown with full masking, I'm sure. I'm actually quite curious to see what happens in China and some other countries with very low historic infection rates - I believe they're going to see massive outbreaks they can't stop well without full masking and maybe lockdowns, given omicron's ability to elude especially the inferior Chinese vaccines. They likely won't see very high death rates, since all of the vaccines do a pretty good job at reducing hosp/deaths in those never infected and vaccinated, but they could see their hospitals overwhelmed. Curious to see the impact on the Olympics too.
Numb3rs has been spot on throughout the pandemic. And obviously masks worked, even cloth ones. But with the transmissibility of omicron, cloth masks do not provide much protection from getting COVID, but still help against spreading it.
See here from the Cleveland Clinic: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/are-cloth-masks-enough-against-omicron/
Delusional? Sensible.
Flouxy, as a friend I’ll help you out on the Trusted News Initiative. And I never listened to Rogan before, but listened to the McCullough and Malone interviews. EVERYONE should, because you won’t hear or read about the information they present on MSM. Everyone should listen and judge for the themselves.
https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-Trusted-News-Initiative-TNI
https://hhjonline.com/the-trusted-news-initiative-p16920-251.htm
https://bonnercountydailybee.com/news/2021/dec/26/trusted-news-initiative-freedom-press/
https://www.quora.com/Who-are-the-Trusted-News-Initiative-TNI
https://hhjonline.com/the-trusted-news-initiative-p16920-251.htm
https://bonnercountydailybee.com/news/2021/dec/26/trusted-news-initiative-freedom-press/
But he can write a proper sentence, which puts him well ahead of you.
News organizations banding together to help prevent other vulnerable people such as yourself from having their brains eaten by Facebook memes and chain mails? I am in favor.
Not true - I already helped patk89 move his position a bit on the origin of the virus. I wouldn't make all these posts if they didn't have a chance of convincing a few - a number of friends of mine who were on the fence got vaxxed after discussing the science with me or reading my FB posts and there were a few here on the fence who got vaxxed when we had threads allowed here.
Why don’t you listen to the Rogan stuff then come back.
Honestly, you got nothing, you’re too far gone.
Question: How do you feel about what is going on in Austria now with the unvaccinated?
First off, I was obviously joking and secondly, what he said wasn't far off from drinking bleach. Bleach is probably the most commonly used disinfectant and whether someone ingests bleach or some other disinfectant doesn't really matter as either is a very bad idea. And what he suggested - injecting a disinfectant into the lungs - was probably even worse than ingesting a disinfectant. He should've just let his experts speak, which is the way Biden has done it - the regular press conferences are run by the experts at CDC, FDA, NIH, etc.
"And then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning, because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that, so that you’re going to have to use medical doctors with, but it sounds interesting to me. So, we’ll see, but the whole concept of the light, the way it kills it in one minute. That’s pretty powerful."
I'm not interested in homework assignments but thank you.
I assume you're talking about the fines? I have no problem with it.
Pretty much running them out of the country. Kind like WW II . I know…you don’t have time to do homework and look it up.
You’re a peach. Sleep well.
Pretty much running them out of the country. Kind like WW II . I know…you don’t have time to do homework and look it up.
You’re a peach. Sleep well.
You got a source on that? Because I see they are fining them. And if that's what you're complaining about you might be concerned that we have been running reckless drivers and illegal parkers out of the US for decades.
Your post doesn't make any sense. I didn't say anything about Omicron. But yes, you can get Omicron even if masked; it's just much less likely, and the risk of being hospitalized if you do get it is much less. These are the facts. We are essentially witnessing a pandemic of the unvaccinated. Here are the numbers for seniors who are fully vaxxed versus not vaxxed: unvaxxed are 50 times more likely to be hospitalized
https://thehill.com/policy/healthca...mes-more-likely-to-be-hospitalized-than-those
The Hill, btw, is a slightly right of center outlet.
And here are data from NYC and Seattle on the likelihood of getting it vaxxed or unvaxxed:
A Growing Gap (Published 2022)
We look at Omicron’s toll in New York and Seattle, two cities with timely data.www.nytimes.com
The data could not be more clear.
If you aren't wearing n 95s and the far majority masking is just a facial decoration
I likely had covid after xmas around new year..no test but slight symptoms of nasal congestion and tiredness and was around people who tested positive so pretty likely i had it symptoms gone within a few days...so at this point i wear a mask because i have to at the RAC but back to not wearing a mask anywhere else
Let's not get hysterical. The legislation was passed overwhelming by their democratically-elected government, and the penalty is a 600 euro (max) fine.
Oh your link says SENIORS..we know they are vulnerable..most seniors are vaxxed..and they are the ones to protect anyhow
Yeah all those unvaxxed that got it in nyc doesnt make sense...are you claiming it was mostly unvaxxed not vaxxed in the past month rash of nyc cases...lmfao
Yeah all those unvaxxed that got it in nyc doesnt make sense...are you claiming it was mostly unvaxxed not vaxxed in the past month rash of nyc cases...lmfao
I don't think you got anything right in that post. It is a vaccine - no vaccines completely stop people from getting infected after exposure and obviously, vaccinated people can also spread a viral disease (but are less likely to, as the humoral immune response is much faster afer being primed by a vaccine) - but vaccinated people are far less likely to get infected or spread COVID or other viral diseases with vaccines vs the unvaccinated - that's crystal clear.
And Rogan, McCullough and Malone are all spreading misinformation about ivermectin, HCQ and other completely failed treatments. For ivermectin, you might want to read "The Incredible Cost of Ivermectin Stupidity. " Excellent investigation into the sad story of how anti-science/anti-vaxx misinformation led to millions of people using this antiparasitic (that Merck makes and I worked on in the late 80s, so there's nobody who wanted ivermectin to work more than I did) to treat COVID despite overwhelming clinical evidence that it had no efficacy against SARS-CoV-2. This not only led to over $130MM in wasted patient/insurer costs, but indirectly it certainly led to thousands of deaths in the unvaccinated who died hoping this drug would help, when it did not. So sad and so unnecessary.
https://www.latimes.com/.../2022-01-14/ivermectin-covid-cost
And HCQ? There's no scientific reason for HCQ to work. it showed anti-viral activity in-vitro, so do many chemicals, but it was ineffective in animals, yet somehow became the subject of one of the biggest scientific frauds ever, perpetrated by some questionable doctors and aided by the POTUS, who should never be talking about experimental drugs and recommending them. HCQ showed "promise" in a number of early observational studies like this one, but observational studies are poorly controlled and often fraught with conflated and confused data - just about every major randomized controlled clinical trial with HCQ showed zero benefit. It's criminal how much time and effort were wasted on this drug. At one point 50-75% of patients in NY/NJ were on HCQ and yet we had the highest death rates of the pandemic in spring 2020, so if it was a "miracle drug" we should've expected to see some positive if not miraculous results. We did not. The most definitive trial was the UK's Recovery RCT confirming again, that it never should have been used on anyone, as the results from the stopped trial showed zero benefit and suggested potential harm. Derek Lowe covered both of these papers in the New England Journal of Medicine in his blog.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/10/09/hard-data#comment-330081
McCullogh especially and Malone were working on Covid early in this. These are professionals that know way more than you. As you would say its a nuanced discussion. McCullough actually treats covid patients
Rogan is a godsend for asking questions and giving platforms. No not everything they say turns out correct but same for cdc and Fauci
Rogan is a godsend for asking questions and giving platforms. No not everything they say turns out correct but same for cdc and Fauci
The unvaxed are locked down, there are searches/ stops, appointments made to get jabbed, and, no, fines up to $4K US. We know vax doesn’t stop from getting or spreading covid. So how does this make any sense? We also had a democratically elected prez here…disaster. That doesn’t make the decision right.
Lol
Where did he tell people to inject bleach..and he was also asked a clarifying statement which he answered
Where did he tell people to inject bleach..and he was also asked a clarifying statement which he answered
He doesn't care..he wants zero covid and they are so far gone in their psychosis that mandates masks and lockdowns are perfectly acceptable until we get there...theyll keep putting up data that unvaxxed are spreading more but cases numbers in blue states say otherwise
Yeah, fines. Who's getting run out of the country like you said? Fines are 600 euros unless the person insists on going to court, where, if they lose, it could be 3600. So again, who is getting run out of the country? The democratically-elected government overwhelming voted for this. And it will save lives.
yeah.. I know how it sounds. I know how it looks. But that's what I see and it is something worthy of seemingly irrational fear.
When so many illogical, irrational things are going on... I'm telling you.. the tech available today to governments makes "Big Brother" entirely possible and it already exists in China where there is one-party in control. And that is what will happen here. You can see it happening if you look
And the people who make blue states blue and make this possible.. 90% of them are good people and they will be enslaved to the government like everyone else. They celebrate when their side wins and have loved the predictions of the end of the GOP.. without thinking what it really means in the long run.
I hope I am wrong.. I look for reasons to believe I am wrong and thinking too much about this... but only people like Manchin and Sinema provide hope that a lot of people might stop this from happening. We'll see in November. If can get stopped then.. and in 2024.. but it will be a constant threat.. something to watch for.
#s: I’ll read the links tomorrow.
Of course real vaccines are never 100%. These “vaccines” against covid are like a sieve. It’s like a flu shot. Why didn’t they call flu shots “vaccines”? And why did they change the definition of vaccine in the middle of all this? This is not a “vaccine” as expected and accepted in the pre-covid world.
Regarding ivermectin, data and studies were being done and showed efficacy. Watch some of Dr John Campbells YouTube’s (India, Peru, Japan) and what McCullough said. There’s data. Pre vax, sick patients were told not to come to drs office , no treatment, but to go to hospital when they’re really sick and it was tool late. Other doctors were treating off label with success. Then those docs were being shutdown. Ivermectin is safe. Too many lives tragically lost unnecessarily. Why?
I’ll read your links but the CDC study which led to the shutting down of ivermectin was flawed and set up to fail. Administered way too late. Have you listened to the Rogan interviews of McCullough and Malone? They’re very long but worth it. And I didn’t buy into (and Rogan didn’t either) when McCullough said you couldn’t get covid twice. McCullough later said he was wrong after omicron proved otherwise.
I had a delta w fever for over a week. Took ivermectin and better in 2 days. Ivermectin had same effect with others I know. Even if taken in combo with other things (vits , nebulizer, etch, so what??? If it works we could have saved many lives by allowing to treat early.
You're getting tedious, bac. Wen, who is NOT a virologist, is saying that the "95" masks are way better than cloth masks. But that wasn't the question here. It was between masks and no masks. And in terms of not spreading Covid, a cloth mask is better than no mask. Simple as. See here: https://health.clevelandclinic.org/are-cloth-masks-enough-against-omicron/
“and it will save lives”…..I’ll go with your “ let’s not get hysterical”, but since you threw it out probably too late for that.
Locking down and vaxing doesn’t stop covid. Haven’t we all learned that? No reason to force anyone to vac at this point. I did go too far (as of right now) with the running out of the country but the insanity needs to stop.
Honest question: If the vaxed feel they are protected from dying and know vaxed can spread covid, why worry about unvaxed?
Sorry, but you're simply wrong on all of this. Most vaccines are in the 70-90% effective range, like the COVID vaccines originally were, so they're very similar - they've worked so well for childhood and other diseases because everyone gets them achieving herd immunity. The COVID vaccines waned in effectiveness after 6+ months and that happens with many other vaccines too, which require boosters to fully energize the immune system - which we've now done for COVID, restoring most of the efficacy. But then omicron evolved and it evades the vaccines to some extent. Like the flu, we may need annual boosters if we see additional evoluation/variants. Also, the flu vaccine is certainly a vaccine, even though its effectiveness is on the low side.
I've seen what Campbell and McCullough have to say and they're simply wrong about ivermectin and HCQ. There are only a few fringe scientists like these guys who are still touting these failed treatments, since many of the supposedly successful studies have been retracted for falsification or simply shoddy work and the well run randomized controlled clinical studies on each showed no efficacy. None. Frankly, it's mind boggling that anyone can read through the literature on these "treatments" and conclude that they work. And ivermectin, in particular, is being taken in a completely untested/unapproved for humans form at a far higher dose than approved for humans and it's landing people in the hospital. Ivermectin didn't "work" for you - the vast majority of people will simply get better without taking anything, which is why RCTs are required to gauge efficacy and safety, not anecdotes. Did you actually have a doc prescribe ivermectin?
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Of course it will save lives (and lessen severity overall and hospitalizations). Didn't you see the links on the relationship between vaccination status and hospitalization? Here is a study out of Malyasia published in Lancet (pretty much the gold standard for medical research): https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanwpc/article/PIIS2666-6065(21)00263-7/fulltext
Key finding:
"The total ASMRs for the unvaccinated group (47.5 per 100,000 population) were 43.2 times and 12.5 times higher than the ASMR of individuals fully vaccinated with BNT162b2 (1.1 per 100,000) and inactivated vaccines (3.8 per 100,000), respectively." ASMR is age standardized mortality rate.
And here is a study just released by the Washington (state) department of health: https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Do...-tables/421-010-CasesInNotFullyVaccinated.pdf
Key finding:
Summary Unvaccinated 12-34 year-olds in Washington are • 2 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 year-olds. • 5 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 12-34 yearolds. Unvaccinated 35-64 year-olds are • 3 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 year-olds. • 8 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 35-64 yearolds. Unvaccinated 65+ year-olds are • 4 times more likely to get COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds. • 7 times more likely to be hospitalized with COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds. • 13 times more likely to die of COVID-19 compared with fully vaccinated 65+ year-olds.
Lockdowns work as well. The problem with lockdowns now is that herd immunity is no longer an obtainable goal with Omicron. So what some societies are doing is selectively using lockdowns so that they can slow the rate of Omicron spread so that their hospitals aren't overwhelmed. But it looks like Omicron is so contagious that it cannot ultimately be stopped, only spread out to lessen the impact over time.
Now, you asked about why the vaxxed worry about the unvaxxed. For a number of reasons. First, a hospital bed given to a COVID patient cannot be used for something else. Second, small children cannot be vaxxed yet, and although their symptoms are typically mild, they can be severe. Third, treating people with COVID in hospitals is a big drain on the health care system. And finally, nobody wants to see anybody be sick with COVID, especially not in hospitals or dying. It's for the most part avoidable.
What the studies show quite clearly, and what you appear to find humorous, is that the unvaxxed are dramatically more likely to get COVID and to be hospitalized with it than the vaxxed. Once again, you're dead wrong.
Great post. As I've learned over the years with my long posts, sometimes (often?) people tune out, so occasionally, people just need the bottom line, so a stat I throw out a lot is 860K unvaccinated dead vs. 20K vaccinated dead in the US during the pandemic and since vaccines became widely available to our highest risk citizens at the end of January, we've had 400K unvaccinated dead vs. 20K vaccinated dead.
If we had simply followed the playbook of many successful countries (which was our playbook that we ignored), like Japan and South Korea, we'd have 1/20th to 1/50th of our per capita death rate during year 1, meaning maybe 10-20K dead and if we had vaccinated everyone we could have in year 2, we would have had another 20-30K dead since Feb. So much preventable death if we had followed the science of masking (with testing, tracing and isolating) before we had vaccines and vaxxing after, of course.
Had not seen those stats before -- very dramatic. Thanks for posting. And btw, I think there are probably a number of folks reading this exchange who are likely to be "seeing the light" on the truth of the situation here. I always hope that that is the case.
We are currently at 52 deaths total here in NZ, but we are facing a tough situation with Omicron. As you know, we started vaccine program later than most countries, but had a short, strictly enforced, lockdown, and have had very few cases of COVID overall. We are at 93% over 12 years old with two shots of Pfizer, but only have 23% boosted. We are increasing the boosted number by about a percent a day. So it will take a couple of months to get the boosted numbers up. Also just started vaccines for 5-12 year olds.
So, ideally we would try to keep Omicron out of the country for 2-3 months, and then basically not worry about it too much in terms of press on the hospitals. That's what the government is hinting at, but hasn't actually come out and said. I think it's a solid approach, but we had been hoping to hit herd immunity here. That's pretty much out the window with Omicron.
So here is what I'm wondering. I've been vaxxed and boosted. I'm also 71 and have a heart stent. When Omicron hits NZ, what kind of risk do I have if I get Omicron?
Just happened to be reading this post and came across my name being mentioned . What a nice surprise !
Exactly. Drawing sound conclusions and making good decisions involves seeking and absorbing a lot of information from a variety of reliable sources of expertise.
Unfortunately too many people have become incapable of doing this, IMO.
If I had a dollar every time conservatives call me liberal and liberals call me conservative, Rutgers would be naming buildings after me with my increased donations!!
The little hobbit , I don’t think he can even reach the rim taking a lay up if he tried 😂
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