Official Fiesta Bowl Thread: tOSU vs Klempsin
- Thread starter RU4Real
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That's not the question, Mike. The question is why guys who are All-American, based on what they've done this season, are not getting the job done. Your argument is because they aren't good. My argument is that they have been outschemed. Meyer is able to outmuscle most of his opponents, and his game plan was designed to do that tonight. Swinney realized what he was up against, and came out with a much more imaginative plan which took advantage of his talent.
Meyer knew who his QB was coming into the game. His game plan is embarrassing bad.
I don't know why he would be second guessing hiring Schiano. The D has not been the problem for them tonight. If anything the defense kept them in the game far longer than the offense deserved to be.
Can't throw the ball downfield with A/B gap pressure against 8 in coverage with a run-first QB. That's just gambling.
Clemson set up their early deep shots with their running game. OSU never established the run b/c they are getting dominated on the line.
Clemson set up their early deep shots with their running game. OSU never established the run b/c they are getting dominated on the line.
Not for nothing, that one All American o-lineman was hurt at the beginning of the game and replaced by a true freshman. He's been back in but it's obvious he had a gimpy ankle and isn't playing anywhere near the level he would be without the injury.
I see quite a few people talking about what Ohio st is not doing but fail to mention the other team. Maybe Clemson is that good? Give them credit.
That's his strength. He's out of NYC school and was a prized recruit for his speed. Unfortunately he needs good blocking to get free. He more of a Mcfadden sprint-up-field type than a Ray Rice or Barry Sanders
Clemson has great play calling. Yes you need the players.... but Are you watching Mr. Kill????!!
I would've much rather seen Harbaugh get his ass handed to him on national tv but this is good too.
Saw that, too. My argument here is simple. The notion that Clemson has a team with superior talent just isn't supported by the data. OSU has 8 all B1G first team players. Now, Clemson has 8 all ACC players, so they are no slouches, but I think we can agree the B1G is a better conference. OSU recruiting classes for this roster are consistently top 5. Clemson is never top 10.
So now we come to the game. Clemson kicks OSU up and down the field. To me, to make the argument that this is because of their players just flies in the face of the data. It is much more reasonable to look at what happened on the field and conclude, "Swinney put this team in a position to win. Meyer did not." Simple as that. Plays that took advantage of strength and minimized opponents' strength. Play calling that was dynamic as opposed to conservative.
Does anybody really believe that the players for Clemson are 31 points better than the players for OSU? The difference was in the game plans and the coaching staffs. Again, thought experiment: would the Meyer staff with the Clemson team beat the Swinney staff with the OSU team? I don't think it would happen one time out of five.
Coaching.
Don't understand the hate for Clemson. They were the clear #2 team all year. Clemson and Florida St play like SEC teams. Should be a good rematch with Alabama. Clemson was an onside kick from winning last year. Game was that close.
Trying to find @Knight Shift @FanuSanu52 @MADHAT1 about our ACC debate. What now? Your'e gonna cheer for the team you despise the most to win the Rose Bowl?
Meyer is an incredible coach. One of the best. He got outcoached thoroughly tonight though.
OSU has crazy talent, is very young, and as always, recruiting at an insane level.
Wouldn't be surprised to see them back in this game next year.
OSU has crazy talent, is very young, and as always, recruiting at an insane level.
Wouldn't be surprised to see them back in this game next year.
Just think Clemson has better players. Ohio st has Samuel. Clemson has several
And for some reason tOSU's receivers dropped a lot of balls that they didn't drop during the regular season. But this ass whooping can also be partially attributed to that fact that tOSU is young (to be expected when you lose 11 guys to the NFL), so the difference in speed and strength is big. What shocks me about this game is that tOSU beat Michigan, Michigan is losing 15 starters to graduation (and losing Peppers, who is a junior), and Michigan lost to FSU. This was just a bad bowl season for our conference. But watch PSU throttle USC and add insult to injury for us.
First off, you're talking about three time national championship winner Urban Meyer. He's not Al Golden or [insert mediocre coach name here].
Second, I think you're selling Clemson's talent level a little short. They had the #6 class in the country for 2016, the #4 class in the country for 2015, #13 in 2014, #14 in 2013, there's a lot of talent on that roster.
However, if you want to do a true postmortem on OSU's failure today, we would have to look at why they have struggled offensively for much of the last half of the season. Maybe the problem is Ed Warriner, maybe Tim Beck, maybe youth and inexperence. I don't know and won't pretend I do, but I do believe it requires a much deeper analysis that we can give here during the game....
OSU freshman lost this game. Who cares. while Rutgers shoves millions into the B1G
Clemson for sure has good players. No question about that. My point is that they aren't 31 points better than OSUs players. In fact, as a whole, they probably aren't better at all. OSU had 8 first team all B1G players this year. Given a slight youth differential, I'm willing to argue that the talent on the two teams is roughly equal.
Given that, what can account for a 31-0 loss? Coaching. Clemson came out knowing what they were doing and having a superior game plan from the git go. I just don't see how that can be disputed. They were also much more fired up. Who do you attribute that to?
I think OSU has superior talent to almost everybody they play, but an approach to the game that says, "We'll out-tough 'em." That was certainly Schiano's approach here. Worked against inferior teams. Swinney, on the other hand, had a scheme devised specifically for OSU's strengths and weaknesses, and it worked beautifully.
Next week, Swinney has an even bigger challenge and less time to devise. If he wins, he's the college equivalent of Belichek.
When ESPN gets the full stats posted, go look at who had more sacks and tackles for loss. The bottom line on this game is simple. Clemson's defensive line whipped Ohio St's offensive line. You simply can't run a bunch of long developing plays when your offensive line is getting beaten consistently.
You keep mentioning that Ohio St got out-schemed. How exactly? Don't give me the generic "they didn't spread the field enough" answer. I want you to specifically tell me how Ohio St got outschemed. What was the scheme in pass protection? In run blocking? In pass routes? If you can't diagram out those plays, then you can't tell me if a team got "outschemed."
I will also make one other point. I don't agree at all that the Big Ten was better than the ACC this year. The ACC was 3-1 vs the Big Ten during the regular season, and was again 3-1 in bowl games. The ACC beat the Big Ten's champion, the Big Ten's playoff representative, and the Big Ten's NY6 representative.
Again, I can tell you exactly what accounts for 31-0. Clemson dominated the line of scrimmage. All the "scheming" is about as worthless as used toilet paper if you can't block the other team.
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