it would be cool to see the Rockets beat the Warriors just to shock the system for a year, but you can never count on Chris Paul. It's always something with him
OT: Another pointless NBA season
- Thread starter T2Kplus10
- Start date
It actually is pretty close. For all the complaining about LeBron being on "super teams", it should be pointed out that he's been to the Finals 9 times in his career (the last 8 in a row, with 2 different teams), and he's been on the better team exactly twice. Despite that, he has 3 titles. Those Bulls teams that won 6 titles were by far and away the best in the league every year.
Jonathan Tjarks of The Ringer said this about LeBron:
Versatility is LeBron’s defining trait, especially in comparison to his fellow all-time greats. He’s not as explosive a scorer as Michael Jordan, and he’s not as good a passer as Magic Johnson. He isn’t as dominant defensively as Bill Russell, and he’s not as unguardable in the post as Wilt Chamberlain and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. What’s so incredible about LeBron is that he’s almost as good as all of those players in each of their strongest categories. None of the others could have succeeded on as many different types of teams as LeBron. James doesn’t have a position: He can play all five at a high level on both sides of the ball. Almost any combination of players can work around him. The past eight years are proof of that.
That's why Jordan Vs. LeBron is now a legitimate debate.
Because he already had an organization that "got it" and surrounded him with better players and loaded the team. He had nothing to complain about, because he had a front office that got the job done without him having to push for it.
He had Pippen and players similar to what LeBron has now. Jordan would rip your heart out to win..LeBron doesn’t have that.
Bull. Some of you are stuck repeating the same narrative just because the person next to you said the same thing a 1000 times, so it must be true. Fact: LeBron has hit more game-winning shots during the playoffs than Jordan. 5 to 3 at a higher shooting percentage.
Similar to what LeBron has now? Jordan never went through a mid-season roster turnover like the Cavs did this year, but let's look at the top scorers right now and compare:
I'll even give you Jordan's third championship team, which was his weakest team (finished 57-25). He had Pippen/Grant/Armstrong all averaging at least 12 ppg to support his 32.6 that year, and all averaged double digits in the playoffs, too. Five guys averaged 4.5 rebounds or better in the playoffs. Six of the top 8 scorers were Top 10 draft picks... including Pippen/Grant who rounded out the core three. Oh, and they were coached by Phil Jackson, who has won more rings than any other NBA coach.
Compare to the group LeBron has right now. The only other player averaging double digits in the playoffs is Love, who missed the last two elimination games of the Eastern Conference finals with a head injury (after missing 21 games during the season). The #3 scorer is the 6th oldest player in the league at 37, and was the 51st overall pick in 2003. Only 3 players are averaging more than 4 rebounds per game.
Not seeing how that's similar.
I'll give you MJ's killer instinct, though - I think he had more of a hunger than James does.
Sweet Baby James will be crying for players to protect him on his new team this summer. Jordan had pride.
He only went through a mid-season turnover because the team wasn’t good enough for LeBron, so he initiated it. It’s an accomplishment that he’s in the finals again but Boston is the only other team in the East. Toronto is way over-rated and not built for the playoffs the rest of the east is garbage. Also, Those Pacers and Knicks teams of the 90s that the Bulls had to get through were way better than any of the teams in the East this year, including Cleveland .Boston and Philly will be better than Cleveland next year so you can bet James will attach himself to a better team. He’s hell bent on having more rings than Jordan, but IMO will never be the player Jordan was.
James is the second best player I’ve seen..and I’ve been around long enough to see the tail end of Chamberlain and watched Lew Alcindor play in the NBA.
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What's with the revision of history with Jordan. There were the Jordan rules where you couldn't hit him and he received the benefit of the doubt from the refs. LeBron complains because he gets mugged due to his size. The officials believe he should be able to handle it.
When you don't have real facts to support your argument you change the topic to keep the upper hand. Now, the teams in the east are bums. If LeBron wins against the west, what will be the excuse to hold LeBron down?
Even though I find Curry more annoying than LeBron, I hope the Warriors sweep.
If LeBron beats the Warriors with this team, I’ll gladly eat crow. Barring a key Warriors injury or two, can’t see it happening.
Yes, I think the east is very bad....but Boston with Irving and Hayward will be very good next year.
If I’m starting a team, I’m still taking Jordan in his prime over James in his prime any day of the week.
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All I know is that Jordan constantly got preferential treatment by the refs. When he was the best player in the NBA several years Pippen was selected as #2. He was surrounded by Kukoc, Rodman, Paxson, Harper, Kerr, Cartwright etc who all were good. The Knicks were not nearly as talented and still gave them a run for their money. Personally I think Chamberlain was the best of all time and I think Lebron excels in more areas than Jordan did. I also don't think Lebron was ever surrounded with the talent that Jordan had around himself.
When Jordan left the Bulls, the Bull won 55 games and lost in game 7 of the ECF. When Lebron left the Cavs they won 19 games.
Both conference finals going to game 7s hasn’t happened since 1979. I’m not sure 2 teams ever came back down 3-2 to make the finals and winning on the road in game 7.
Predictable outcome of Cavs/Warriorsfinals, perhaps, but 2 seed vs 4 seed and an unpredictable path to that outcome.
It’s like hockey - the goal of the regular season is to do well enough to make the playoffs, nothing more. Just make it there healthy and running on all cylinders. Then you can actually start playing at full strength.
The franchise actually had all of their season ticket holders re-up prior to The Decision.
When LeBron left the Cavs, everyone else left too. It was like a college team that lost all of their seniors at the same time.
The franchise actually had all of their season ticket holders re-up prior to The Decision.
Mike Brown was fired. LeBron and Illgaskus left. Lebron was the reason they won 60+ games, the remainder of the roster was mediocre at best. The Bulls clearly didn't have such a mediocre roster, given they still were very good after Jordan left.
Yup. Chicago had good management and surrounded MJ with excellent players, solid veterans who stayed together for a few seasons. Pippen was an excellent #2. LeBron has a fine #2 in Kevin Love, who can't stay healthy and whose coach does not use him effectively. Like the ill-fated move to the 5. Guess Ty Lue, who is a little underrated, still doesn't measure up to that fine ex-Knick, Phil Jackson. The Cavs current roster has two guys the Lakers felt were surplus to its requirements; got little back from its trade for Kyrie; and managed to beat the Celts who are a year away and had their two best players out.
LeBron dragging that band to the championship of the East despite not having Love the last two games--and winning Game 7 in Boston? The only feat comparable was the year my neighbor and I took a year away from Magic season tickets and got Heat season tickets. We were treated to a young D Wade's greatest season--one in which he dragged a ragtag band of gypsies in which the second best player was Michael Beasley ( MICHAEL BEASLEY???) into the playoffs.
Believe LeBron is the best player, ever. That size, that durability, that ability to drive the lane and play bully ball and yet hit step-back 3's? That willingness to make plays for other players? His ability to handle just about anyone on D? He looked so worn out in the first half of Game 6, but that was just an illusion.
Will give MJ that psychotic will to win. It was always all about Michael, though; this year, LeBron has been too self-congratulatory;
too involved in personnel decisions. And he has benefited from the changing rules. Though who could hand check Lebron?? It is like Steve Kerr said--and he played in the Old Days--basketball players are getting slower and weaker and less skilled as time goes on.
Look, my fave team was those 1969 Knicks. Reed, DeBusschere, Walt Frazier, Dick Barnett and Bill Bradley with Mike Reardon, Phil Jackson and Dave Stallworth off the bench. How would that team, if we could bring them all back in their primes, do against the Warriors? Surely you jest.
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I tried to watch HOU-GS game 6 and lasted 4 minutes and asked myself what the heck am I doing. I used to love the NBA and knew all the players on all the teams.
Wait.... just to be very clear... you are aware that Steve Kerr said that sarcastically right?
He was being 100% sarcastic. Because it is so obvious that players are bigger fast stronger quicker, equipped with far better nutrition and science.
For all those posters that yearn for the Good Old Days when basketball players were stronger, tougher and more skilled as opposed to the watered down NBA we have today:
Bob Cousy, for many years regarded as the premier NBA PG, with all those Celtic titleholders, shot a career 37.5% (presumably no 3's) with a career scoring average of 18. Bill Sharman, his back court partner--and maybe also in the HOF--shot 42.8 for his career, averaging about 16.
My all-time favorite NBA player, Walt Frazier, shot about 49%, scoring from 16-23 in his years with the Knicks, and would guess defense was better in the 70's than in the 50's. Steph Curry shoots 47.7%, which includes his 43.6% from 3. And that's for his career.
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Bob Cousy, for many years regarded as the premier NBA PG, with all those Celtic titleholders, shot a career 37.5% (presumably no 3's) with a career scoring average of 18. Bill Sharman, his back court partner--and maybe also in the HOF--shot 42.8 for his career, averaging about 16.
My all-time favorite NBA player, Walt Frazier, shot about 49%, scoring from 16-23 in his years with the Knicks, and would guess defense was better in the 70's than in the 50's. Steph Curry shoots 47.7%, which includes his 43.6% from 3. And that's for his career.
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Agreed, Ari--athletes are bigger, stronger, know better how to take care of themselves. People speak of Mickey Mantle with awe--he hit monster home runs, but was 5'10 175, not Aaron Judge size. And imagine what Babe Ruth would have been with modern training methods, therapists to help him handle his excesses, etc? Steve Kerr was the perfect guy to convey the message since he played in The Old Days and coaches now, when players are better.
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