OT: Applications for Rutgers NB have increased almost 40% for Fall 2024

[Knight Shift]

You’re welcome

It really wasn't contentious or snarky. Just fooling around, as usual on the interwebs forums. I'll text the guy.

EDIT- nope, nothing from Rutgers, which continues to Rutgers. Meanwhile, RPI has offered a huge aid package, making it cheaper than the cost of Rutgers (out of state) with no aid. Personally, I would choose RPI over Rutgers if RPI was cheaper. Top engineering school, but downside is dreary location.

 

[retired711]

It really wasn't contentious or snarky. Just fooling around, as usual on the interwebs forums. I'll text the guy.

EDIT- nope, nothing from Rutgers, which continues to Rutgers. Meanwhile, RPI has offered a huge aid package, making it cheaper than the cost of Rutgers (out of state) with no aid. Personally, I would choose RPI over Rutgers if RPI was cheaper. Top engineering school, but downside is dreary location.

Do I understand correctly that the choice is between Renssellaer and Rutgers OOS? I would pick Renssellaer in a heartbeat unless Rutgers offered a fantastic aid package. A polytechnic like Renssellaer offers a unique brand of STEM education.

 

[Knight Shift]

Do I understand correctly that the choice is between Renssellaer and Rutgers OOS? I would pick Renssellaer in a heartbeat unless Rutgers offered a fantastic aid package. A polytechnic like Renssellaer offers a unique brand of STEM education.

Yes, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, in Troy, NY.
My understanding is that RPI has had some growing pains as of late. The schools is said to have "fallen off" a bit under the previous President, who may have stayed on too long. Primarily a school for smart engineering and science kids from the Northeast who did not get into MIT/Ivies, their demographic has dried up. During covid, their finances took a beating, and they decided to admit and enroll more students without increasing housing.

It is still a fine school for what it is -a well-regarded science and engineering school. RPI's ranking has fallen precipitously in recent years, but from what some alums say, and it seems to be true, they do not game the rankings by pumping up application numbers by offering no fee applications. Since their admitted student numbers increased without a like increase in applications, this is a big factor impacting rankings. Their diversity scoring may not be so great either. Apparently, Rutgers has done well under the new scoring system, and Northeastern apparently does a lot to pump up the number of applications they receive, which results in Northeastern having a higher "selectivity" score.

As with any other ranking system (e.g., recruiting rankings), it helps to look behind the numbers and other factors to determine quality. It is great that Rutgers has jumped in the rankings because of diversity scoring. But for Northeastern, which is a fine university, getting extra points because of selectivity is not a great measure. A better measure would be ACT/SAT scores in quartiles/percentiles for accepted and enrolled students. These numbers would give a good indication of how "smart" the accepted students are, and how many that were accepted actually enrolled.

When I was accepted to Rutgers College of Engineering (as it was then), I also had been accepted to Stevens Tech and Lehigh University. I really preferred both of the other schools over Rutgers, but finances dictated Rutgers. I'm glad it worked out that way because looking back, there were so many valuable aspects to my Rutgers years that I do not think I would have had at Lehigh or Stevens. In the end, it's important for each student to make the best of their situation, and if not happy as a first year, to transfer.

 

[retired711]

Yes, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, in Troy, NY.
My understanding is that RPI has had some growing pains as of late. The schools is said to have "fallen off" a bit under the previous President, who may have stayed on too long. Primarily a school for smart engineering and science kids from the Northeast who did not get into MIT/Ivies, their demographic has dried up. During covid, their finances took a beating, and they decided to admit and enroll more students without increasing housing.

It is still a fine school for what it is -a well-regarded science and engineering school. RPI's ranking has fallen precipitously in recent years, but from what some alums say, and it seems to be true, they do not game the rankings by pumping up application numbers by offering no fee applications. Since their admitted student numbers increased without a like increase in applications, this is a big factor impacting rankings. Their diversity scoring may not be so great either. Apparently, Rutgers has done well under the new scoring system, and Northeastern apparently does a lot to pump up the number of applications they receive, which results in Northeastern having a higher "selectivity" score.

As with any other ranking system (e.g., recruiting rankings), it helps to look behind the numbers and other factors to determine quality. It is great that Rutgers has jumped in the rankings because of diversity scoring. But for Northeastern, which is a fine university, getting extra points because of selectivity is not a great measure. A better measure would be ACT/SAT scores in quartiles/percentiles for accepted and enrolled students. These numbers would give a good indication of how "smart" the accepted students are, and how many that were accepted actually enrolled.

When I was accepted to Rutgers College of Engineering (as it was then), I also had been accepted to Stevens Tech and Lehigh University. I really preferred both of the other schools over Rutgers, but finances dictated Rutgers. I'm glad it worked out that way because looking back, there were so many valuable aspects to my Rutgers years that I do not think I would have had at Lehigh or Stevens. In the end, it's important for each student to make the best of their situation, and if not happy as a first year, to transfer.

I'm impressed by RPI in part because the law school had a dean who was brilliant -- and was an RPI grad. I also remember being told by a number of really good engineers that a polytechnic offers a wonderful experience.

My niece had the choice of going to Rutgers in-state for engineering or Georgia Tech. She picked Georgia Tech. She was and is happy she made that choice.

 

[jtung230]

Northeastern definitely games the system. They defer or waitlist kids that are too good for them to keep acceptance rate low.

 

[retired711]

Northeastern definitely games the system. They defer or waitlist kids that are too good for them to keep acceptance rate low.

My guess is that Northeastern thinks it is not given enough credit for its internship program which, according to the Wall Street Journal article I linked, is *very* successful in helping its graduates get jobs, and so Northeastern feels entitled to try to game the system to look better. That's not an excuse, of course, but perhaps it's the explanation.

 

[Knight Shift]

I'm impressed by RPI in part because the law school had a dean who was brilliant -- and was an RPI grad. I also remember being told by a number of really good engineers that a polytechnic offers a wonderful experience.

My niece had the choice of going to Rutgers in-state for engineering or Georgia Tech. She picked Georgia Tech. She was and is happy she made that choice.

Georgia Tech is a top tier engineering school, and Rutgers is very good, but not top tier.
Interesting that Home Depot founder, Bernie Marcus is a Rutgers alumnus (Newark, Pharmacy major), but unless he has done so non-publicly, has given nothing to Rutgers, but $15-20M to Georgia Tech. He lives in Atlanta, and he obviously is more connected locally.

 

[RUaMoose]

It really wasn't contentious or snarky. Just fooling around, as usual on the interwebs forums. I'll text the guy.

EDIT- nope, nothing from Rutgers, which continues to Rutgers. Meanwhile, RPI has offered a huge aid package, making it cheaper than the cost of Rutgers (out of state) with no aid. Personally, I would choose RPI over Rutgers if RPI was cheaper. Top engineering school, but downside is dreary location.

When I worked in IT, we had a datacenter in Troy so I was up there several times a year. A lot of the ppl that worked there were RPI grads

 

[jtung230]

My guess is that Northeastern thinks it is not given enough credit for its internship program which, according to the Wall Street Journal article I linked, is *very* successful in helping its graduates get jobs, and so Northeastern feels entitled to try to game the system to look better. That's not an excuse, of course, but perhaps it's the explanation.

It is a differentiator. But on the other end of spectrum is the freshman year study abroad program.

 

[rutgersdave]

Yes, Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute, in Troy, NY.
My understanding is that RPI has had some growing pains as of late. The schools is said to have "fallen off" a bit under the previous President, who may have stayed on too long. Primarily a school for smart engineering and science kids from the Northeast who did not get into MIT/Ivies, their demographic has dried up. During covid, their finances took a beating, and they decided to admit and enroll more students without increasing housing.

It is still a fine school for what it is -a well-regarded science and engineering school. RPI's ranking has fallen precipitously in recent years, but from what some alums say, and it seems to be true, they do not game the rankings by pumping up application numbers by offering no fee applications. Since their admitted student numbers increased without a like increase in applications, this is a big factor impacting rankings. Their diversity scoring may not be so great either. Apparently, Rutgers has done well under the new scoring system, and Northeastern apparently does a lot to pump up the number of applications they receive, which results in Northeastern having a higher "selectivity" score.

As with any other ranking system (e.g., recruiting rankings), it helps to look behind the numbers and other factors to determine quality. It is great that Rutgers has jumped in the rankings because of diversity scoring. But for Northeastern, which is a fine university, getting extra points because of selectivity is not a great measure. A better measure would be ACT/SAT scores in quartiles/percentiles for accepted and enrolled students. These numbers would give a good indication of how "smart" the accepted students are, and how many that were accepted actually enrolled.

When I was accepted to Rutgers College of Engineering (as it was then), I also had been accepted to Stevens Tech and Lehigh University. I really preferred both of the other schools over Rutgers, but finances dictated Rutgers. I'm glad it worked out that way because looking back, there were so many valuable aspects to my Rutgers years that I do not think I would have had at Lehigh or Stevens. In the end, it's important for each student to make the best of their situation, and if not happy as a first year, to transfer.

The kid is an exception to get financial aid to get the tuition below Rutgers. Can’t get into MIT but gets into RPI. Probably top 3-4% of his class. The OOS tuition is over $60k for student that aren‘t Exceptional.

Rutgers improved in the rating probably more due to the cost benefit analysis base on the average student, not the exceptional student, than the diversity.

 

[Knight Shift]

When I worked in IT, we had a datacenter in Troy so I was up there several times a year. A lot of the ppl that worked there were RPI grads

That area is very underrated for tech. IBM had (and still has) a huge presence in that area, and there is a consortium (if that's the right word) doing cutting edge research on chipmaking.

 

[Knight Shift]

The kid is an exception to get financial aid to get the tuition below Rutgers. Can’t get into MIT but gets into RPI. Probably top 3-4% of his class. The OOS tuition is over $60k for student that aren‘t Exceptional.

Rutgers improved in the rating probably more due to the cost benefit analysis base on the average student, not the exceptional student, than the diversity.

He got a better package at SUNY Binghamton. IIRC, he did not get into Penn State main campus for his chosen major, and was asked to go to one of their feeder campuses and could transfer up. No NIL money for him either, IIRC. Sometimes different schools take interest in applicants for different reasons. In this kid's case, his brother is already there.

 

[ruinac]

Northeastern definitely games the system. They defer or waitlist kids that are too good for them to keep acceptance rate low.

How is that gaming the system? Firstly, acceptance rate isn’t used in the USNWR rankings. Secondly, if you accept a fixed number of Y applicants out of a pool of X the ratio doesn’t change because of who you select. 7% is 7% no matter if you take the top, bottom or middle 7%.

If anything, not accepting the “best” applicants would likely lead to lower scores in a number of USNWR criteria and would hurt the rating. Maybe they don’t offer admission to kids who they figure have NE as a safety school and wouldn’t come.

 

[jtung230]

How is that gaming the system? Firstly, acceptance rate isn’t used in the USNWR rankings. Secondly, if you accept a fixed number of Y applicants out of a pool of X the ratio doesn’t change because of who you select. 7% is 7% no matter if you take the top, bottom or middle 7%.

If anything, not accepting the “best” applicants would likely lead to lower scores in a number of USNWR criteria and would hurt the rating. Maybe they don’t offer admission to kids who they figure have NE as a safety school and wouldn’t come.

They are gaming it by showing a lower acceptance rate than actual. They understand the yield number would be lower so they defer kids that are likely to go elsewhere and withdraw their application.

 

[SKnight00]

Rutgers sent out honors offers and scholarship offers yesterday.

Average GPA for admitted students (not honors admits specifically) quoted as 4.0 and average SAT (for those who submitted - usually around half - was 1420).

 

[RUTGERS95]

Northeastern definitely games the system. They defer or waitlist kids that are too good for them to keep acceptance rate low.

lol stop

 

[RUTGERS95]

How is that gaming the system? Firstly, acceptance rate isn’t used in the USNWR rankings. Secondly, if you accept a fixed number of Y applicants out of a pool of X the ratio doesn’t change because of who you select. 7% is 7% no matter if you take the top, bottom or middle 7%.

If anything, not accepting the “best” applicants would likely lead to lower scores in a number of USNWR criteria and would hurt the rating. Maybe they don’t offer admission to kids who they figure have NE as a safety school and wouldn’t come.

you have to ignore him, he's just..........

 

[jtung230]

Rutgers sent out honors offers and scholarship offers yesterday.

Average GPA for admitted students (not honors admits specifically) quoted as 4.0 and average SAT (for those who submitted - usually around half - was 1420).

Where are you seeing that? I did see the honors program go out yesterday.

 

[retired711]

Georgia Tech is a top tier engineering school, and Rutgers is very good, but not top tier.
Interesting that Home Depot founder, Bernie Marcus is a Rutgers alumnus (Newark, Pharmacy major), but unless he has done so non-publicly, has given nothing to Rutgers, but $15-20M to Georgia Tech. He lives in Atlanta, and he obviously is more connected locally.

Yes, I think my niece made the right choice, and her family was willing to sacrifice to make it work.

Marcus didn't stay in pharmacy for more than a few years and was at the pharmacy school in Newark when it was located at a distance from today's Newark campus. Beside, what he really wanted was to go to Harvard Medical School following graduation from college but, according to the Georgia Encyclopedia, he was told he would have to bribe his way in because he was Jewish. Studying pharmacy was a second choice for him. I agree he should give money, but it's not amazing that he doesn't.

https://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/articles/business-economy/bernie-marcus-b-1929/

 

[NotInRHouse]

What happens to someone who goes to RPI and then decides they don't want to be an engineer or do STEM? People don't know what they want to do later in life, and then you're constricted at 18. That and I feel like the STEM oriented schools end up being a sausage fest. Personally I think a big liberal arts school with strong STEM options is probably the best choice unless you're absolutely drop dead sure at that age.

 

[retired711]

What happens to someone who goes to RPI and then decides they don't want to be an engineer or do STEM? People don't know what they want to do later in life, and then you're constricted at 18. That and I feel like the STEM oriented schools end up being a sausage fest. Personally I think a big liberal arts school with strong STEM options is probably the best choice unless you're absolutely drop dead sure at that age.

The RPI alum I know went to law school and was a brilliant student. That led to a career as a brilliant law professor. In my experience from my years teaching law, STEM is an *excellent* preparation for law school. If nothing else, STEM teaches a student to think logically and work hard. And in this fellow's case, knowledge of science was a considerable help in his law career.

I also know of more than one STEM person who went on to earn M.B.As and establish themselves in business.

 

[NotInRHouse]

The RPI alum I know went to law school and was a brilliant student. That led to a career as a brilliant law professor. In my experience from my years teaching law, STEM is an *excellent* preparation for law school. If nothing else, STEM teaches a student to think logically and work hard. And in this fellow's case, knowledge of science was a considerable help in his law career.

I also know of more than one STEM person who went on to earn M.B.As and establish themselves in business.

No doubt, and i know STEM people who became non-patent lawyers as well. But that's not for everyone, either, though it can be pretty lucrative. I know a lot of people who changed what they studied at least once, though, that is what I am thinking about. I even knew people at the time who quit the Engineering and Pharma schools and then had to go to Livingston at the time (which they tried to keep from Rutgers College people lol). I have friends who are engineers, some who became lawyers and other things and a friend who went to RPI. But I knew a lot fickle college students and I know a lot of adults who maybe got even more fickle since then haha.

 

[ruinac]

What happens to someone who goes to RPI and then decides they don't want to be an engineer or do STEM? People don't know what they want to do later in life, and then you're constricted at 18. That and I feel like the STEM oriented schools end up being a sausage fest. Personally I think a big liberal arts school with strong STEM options is probably the best choice unless you're absolutely drop dead sure at that age.

RPI has some non-STEM majors. Not as many as you’d find at RU.

 

[WhoRU?]

RPI has some non-STEM majors. Not as many as you’d find at RU.

My son got into RPI and chose a larger school with more majors because there were no girls there. Still majoring in engineering and very pleased with his choice.

 

[SKnight00]

Where are you seeing that? I did see the honors program go out yesterday.

It was in the notification to school counselors.

 

[bigmatt718]

Deciding on a "major" which is in demand is maybe even more important than the school choice.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

Got that right. If you don't major in something in STEM or business majors that are quantitative like accounting or finance or supply chain, you're fighting uphill to get a decent entry level position after college.

 

[bigmatt718]

Northeastern definitely games the system. They defer or waitlist kids that are too good for them to keep acceptance rate low.

They're the kings of gaming the system. That's why they got in a lot of trouble over it a few years ago.

 

[RUTGERS95]

They're the kings of gaming the system. That's why they got in a lot of trouble over it a fee years ago.

huh? NU never got in trouble and has zero issues here

they did send out some 48 incorrect letters last year but they have never been in trouble over admission and are not kings of gaming the system

just because you guys have kids or know someone that can't get in doesn't mean they are gaming the system

 

[RU at the shore]

huh? NU never got in trouble and has zero issues here

they did send out some 48 incorrect letters last year but they have never been in trouble over admission and are not kings of gaming the system

just because you guys have kids or know someone that can't get in doesn't mean they are gaming the system

Huh ? It’s well known that Northeastern “gamed” the USNWR system. Former President Freeland has unabashedly admitted it, easily found in printed articles.

 

[jtung230]

huh? NU never got in trouble and has zero issues here

they did send out some 48 incorrect letters last year but they have never been in trouble over admission and are not kings of gaming the system

just because you guys have kids or know someone that can't get in doesn't mean they are gaming the system

No one is saying they did anything illegal. They are gaming the system. But to improve the rankings, they had to make material positive changes. For example, their job placement via co-op program is great. The part that’s not great is manipulating acceptance rate.

 

[newell138]

It is positive when the parochial school kids are paying attention. I went to catholic school and only 3 of us in my class went to RU. Rutgers has not been am aspirational school, especially for private school kids. The increased rankings and lower acceptance rate from increased common app activity helps perception. Competitive sports does not hurt.

Do you know the avg number of Delbarton students that attend RU? I am guessing not too high, but positive step if they are applying.

Same here. Catholic HS graduated in 1981. 2 of the 200 kids went to RU including myself

 

[retired711]

Same here. Catholic HS graduated in 1981. 2 of the 200 kids went to RU including myself

Out of curiosity, where did they go? Did many go to Catholic schools like Seton Hall? Or did many go to publics either within or outside New Jersey?

 

[newell138]

Out of curiosity, where did they go? Did many go to Catholic schools like Seton Hall? Or did many go to publics either within or outside New Jersey?

Seton Hall was quite popular

 

[retired711]

Seton Hall was quite popular

I'm not surprised. My guess is that some of your classmates went to Fordham or Boston College or Notre Dame. Yes, it costs more money to go to Seton Hall , for instance, than to Rutgers. But I went to public school in NYC and I remember how many Catholic parents withdrew their kids and sent them instead to parochial school at considerable cost when one opened within walking distance. Many Catholic parents value Catholic education, and that is their right, just as Orthodox Jewish parents pay for Jewish day school for their kids to give them the kind of education they want.

 

[ruinac]

I'm not surprised. My guess is that some of your classmates went to Fordham or Boston College or Notre Dame. Yes, it costs more money to go to Seton Hall , for instance, than to Rutgers. But I went to public school in NYC and I remember how many Catholic parents withdrew their kids and sent them instead to parochial school at considerable cost when one opened within walking distance. Many Catholic parents value Catholic education, and that is their right, just as Orthodox Jewish parents pay for Jewish day school for their kids to give them the kind of education they want.

I'm not surprised. My guess is that some of your classmates went to Fordham or Boston College or Notre Dame. Yes, it costs more money to go to Seton Hall , for instance, than to Rutgers. But I went to public school in NYC and I remember how many Catholic parents withdrew their kids and sent them instead to parochial school at considerable cost when one opened within walking distance. Many Catholic parents value Catholic education, and that is their right, just as Orthodox Jewish parents pay for Jewish day school for their kids to give them the kind of education they want

I attended parochial schools from grades 1-12. 1-8 were very much a Catholic education. High School could just as well have been a non-denominational school. In fact, my freshman Theology teacher was Jewish. The only significant difference between my HS and the public was in the structure. We were expected/required to be more studious and respectful. 9 of us, out of about 200, went to Rutgers.

 

[Bleed_Scarlet]

Common application

This is the answer - my older son applied to 15!!! schools due to common app

I applied to two for undergrad and one for graduate (I knew what I wanted and knew I could get in..)

It was both stupid and unnecessary to do so, but everybody was doing it according to him.

It helps crappy schools buff up their acceptance rates - there are certain schools that likely won’t accept you unless you have “demonstrated interest” , for example taking a tour. As a result, he got turned down by some really not good schools that he was overqualified for- of course, this made him extremely frustrated. Since he had no intention of going to those schools, it was just stupidity.

For my younger son (senior in HS next year) , we aren’t playing that game - only applying to schools where there is a real shot of him attending if accepted.

 

[retired711]

I attended parochial schools from grades 1-12. 1-8 were very much a Catholic education. High School could just as well have been a non-denominational school. In fact, my freshman Theology teacher was Jewish. The only significant difference between my HS and the public was in the structure. We were expected/required to be more studious and respectful. 9 of us, out of about 200, went to Rutgers.

Yes, I've heard repeatedly over the decades that parents pick Catholic schools not just for the education, but also for the structure. Among other things, Catholic schools can get rid of troublemakers more easily than public schools.

 

[Luvscarletknights]

Same here. Catholic HS graduated in 1981. 2 of the 200 kids went to RU including myself

Mine too with parochial. Studying Pre-Vet and enjoying RU very much.

Living nearby and attending every sports event did not hurt in his decision but finances play a part. Having alums as parents did not hurt.

My uncle went to Don Bosco in 1970's and went to RU. He told me it was not a very popular decision by school administration.

 

[jtung230]

The big increase will help other NJ state schools. A lot of kids thought they had a good shot at RU have been waitlisted, deferred or rejected. Kind of like the UC system.

 

[RUTGERS95]

Yes, I've heard repeatedly over the decades that parents pick Catholic schools not just for the education, but also for the structure. Among other things, Catholic schools can get rid of troublemakers more easily than public schools.

great control over the curriculum, religions foundation that focuses on right vs wrong and moral aptitude, focused education and much much better structure and accountability