OT: Bitcoin, Altcoins, NFT's & All Things Crypto
- Thread starter bob-loblaw
- Start date
I thought that was the gov'ts holdings and they were encouraging the people to buy it themselves off the market?
I think they bought those coins and distributed them to the pop. I need to look at the old new articles.
Bear with me because I’m definitely trying to educate myself. I’m not a crypto hater. If BTC is not gaining traction as transactional currency, doesn’t that have a negative impact on the entire BTC ecosystem? It’s my understanding that BTC miners receive BTC as a reward for completing "blocks" of verified transactions, which are added to the blockchain. I guess where I’m confused is aren’t those “verified transactions” those involving the actual use of BTC for payment?
The El Salvador situation does get very interesting if citizens are just holding BTC and not using it. On the one hand, it undermines the entire reason for adopting BTC as legal tender. On the other hand, presumably the citizens of El Salvador have increased their wealth based on the recent run-up and may hold out for more gains.
Bob, or others will need to verify, but I think the story is something like this.
There are 28 million total BTC, but only 22ish million which are out in the world. There are still 6ish million which have not yet been "unearthed" if you will.
The remaining 6 million are released on a timeline(of sorts) and that is where the miners and the verification takes place.
I think once verified they are in plain site to the world on the block chain and are Non Fungible. After that they can be sold or traded without further verification.
Yeah I think the El Salvador transactional use thesis is a trojan horse of sorts. But a potential good one for the people of that country.
Obviously if those people buy and hold, and then BTC tanks to $10K, or if people buy on the run up to 100K and then it tanks back to $50K, that's not great for the people. But if enough El Salvadorians buy and hold at $50K and then it runs to $500K, then the president is looking pretty good.
Now I can't see using BTC to buy stuff, but I have money. But if I'm an El Salvadorian, and I bought BTC and it went up 30%, I might be very happy to get 30% more food then I could a week ago, I might jump on that opportunity.
One potential devious thought I had was, with a 20 cent per gallon discount or whatever they were offering is this a way to funnel BTC to the countries oil companies? But I think the oil companies could just buy BTC with the money anyway so I'm not sure this holds up.
Last edited:
I’ll wait for Bob. I’m trying to understand if the transactions that BTC miners verify to earn BTC are actually transactions where people are using BTC to transact business (I.e., BTC holder uses it to buy a Tesla).
Pretty sure not, but Bob is def the board expert.
There is a new thing Bob has been talking about where BTC is used as a part of the transaction process, money is converted to BTC and back to money. It's all done super fast and this cuts credit card companies, and the fees associated with it, out of the process. Interesting real world application(and I'm with you in looking for the real world crypto/blockchain applications). But again, check with Bob.
The BTC number is 21 million total and 18 million that is HODL’ed leaving only 3 in circulation. Lightning is what @bob is referring to in which transactions are performed with instant conversion to BTC without ever having to own BTC . The conversion occurs automatically and speeds transactions and costs less.
How many bitcoin are owned by the original founder and have not been disclosed to the public? Anyone know for sure?
Step away from the board for a day and this thread sees more volume then it has in mos.
So here's how it works. Bitcoin is capped at 21 million. It's coded in. 18,850,056 have already released. They are released by miners running software to solve problems and verify transactions on the chain. By running the software, they are rewarded with newly mined BTC. New BTC blocks are released every 10 mins.
When Bitcoin was launched, the reward was 50 BTC for each block. Every 4 years that number gets cut in half, which is why you always hear about the BTC "halvening"
In 2012, the block reward was cut in half to 25. in 2016, it was cut in half again to 12.5, May 2020 it was cut in half again to 6.25. The next halvening will occur sometime in 2024. Side note, should spot ETF's get approved, the amount of new BTC coming on the network will essentially purchase all new BTC that is being mined causing an aggressive supply shock.
Here's a visual
Block Reward Per Block Chart - Bitcoin Visuals
Historical and current bitcoin miner reward (excluding transaction fees) per block, in terms of bitcoin and US dollars (USD).
bitcoinvisuals.com
The amount of computing power needed to run mining software continues to rise over time. What started as a software that could have been successfully mined on a HP laptop now requires powerful ASIC processors and a shit ton of energy.
Roughly every two weeks, the BTC difficulty adjustment is reset. This number essentially is a metric designed to reflect how hard it is to mine a Bitcoin block. ,If the number is higher, it reuquires more computing power to verify transactions and mine new coins. When China made it illegal to mine, that number tanked, causing all remaining miners to become more profitable by not requiring as much hash power to mine a block. The difficulty adjustment occurs every 2,016 blocks / roughly every two weeks, as Bitcoin is programmed to self-adjust in order to keep its target block time of 10 minutes.
Back to halvings, the final BTC should be mined somewhere in 2140.
The question I'm often asked is what happens then? Miners make mine by earning block rewards (new BTC) and by verifying transactions. The transaction fees are miniscule, but add up. When all are mined BTC miners will get paid by collecting transaction fess.
I tried to make this a layman as possible, hope it helps break down the mining process.
Is there proof of that? He owns 980 million coins? and the rest of the world has 21 million coins?
What transactions? Every time that coin is sold? Is this because the miner owns that "block" of the blockchain?
Aldo, yes you're correct, but with a caveat 05 brings up.
As I broke down before in my lengthy post about mining, miners earn $$ by mining new BTC and by transaction fees. For example, I moved .012 BTC from an exchange to cold storage. The miners made 0.00008368 BTC ($4.84 at the time) on that transaction. Times this time the millions of transactions occurring and thats how they make $ off transaction fees.
05 brings up the Lightning Network, which is a layer 2 protocol on top of BTC. And truthfully, this is a big part of why I'm so bullish on BTC as a payment vessel. I downplayed it for a while as it was initially too difficult and i honestly didnt understand the nuance of it, but then Strike came along and holy shit.
To understand how this works you have to separate Bitcoin (BTC) from the Bitcoin Network. In it's simplest form, Lightning uses the Bitcoin Network as financial rails to send currency instantaneously and with near zero cost. You can send someone domestically or internationally any currency (fiat or BTC) in real time at near zero cost. Our dollars are converted to BTC and instantaneously sold for whatever the native currency the receiver is looking for. This is pretty much a big FU to Western Union or any remittance co out there.
For those looking to see this in its simplest form, download the Strike App. If you use Venmo, you should download this as well. Especially if you're like me and like owning your last name (or a certain name) as user names on social feeds.
So if you have a friend in overseas, have them dl the APP. You'll send $$ and they'll receive their native currency in real time.
Expanding on that, Strike has an open API that allows for developers to use it's simplicity as a method of accepting payment. It's what Twitter uses to send tips now on its network.
Hope this helps.
False. read my prior post on coin allotment.
His wallet addresses are not known. Here's an old analysis form '13
The Well Deserved Fortune of Satoshi Nakamoto, Bitcoin creator, Visionary and Genius
I won’t discuss anything in this post. I’m tired of discussing technical things with people with skewed opinions and monetary interest. I’ve talked enough in the Bitcointalk forum…
bitslog.com
What is known is when coins from certain blocks are moved. His (her) coins have not moved.
Every time a coin is moved. Separate sales from this for a second. Let's say I send you .0002 BTC to your wallet, that's a transaction and the miners collect fees on it.
So does the fact that people are simply holding BTC as opposed to transacting create a fundamental problem since less transactions seems to mean less verifying by miners and therefore less BTC mined? If that makes sense…
No. They're validating the transaction. Essentially doing what BTC does best; confirming I'm me, you're you and I didnt attempt to send the btc Im sending elsewhere.
Great question, honestly it's one I dont know the precise answer for. I dont think it makes much of a difference, as the block rewards are programmed amount. The miners are still running the BTC program trying to solve whatever problems it pushes out.
False. read my prior post on coin allotment.
His wallet addresses are not known. Here's an old analysis form '13
The Well Deserved Fortune of Satoshi Nakamoto, Bitcoin creator, Visionary and Genius
I won’t discuss anything in this post. I’m tired of discussing technical things with people with skewed opinions and monetary interest. I’ve talked enough in the Bitcointalk forum…
What is known is when coins from certain blocks are moved. His (her) coins have not moved.
You said that this person holds 980 million coins
Thats correct. This part is not - "and the rest of the world has 21 million coins?"
So how many total bitcoins are there? Is there a breakdown of how many are released? How many does Santoshi own? How many are yet to be mined?
I probably need to spend some time researching this. I guess the ultimate question is, hypothetically, if nobody transacted with BTC and simply held it as an investment asset, would the entire BTC/mining network come to a screeching halt. No transactions, I think, would mean nothing to verify. Right? Kind of like if El Salvador citizens only hold BTC as an asset because they have their eye on the $100K prediction, does their economy take a nose dive when nobody is using it to pay for stuff? Although obviously individual wealth would increase as BTC increases.
See long post above about mining for the answer to questions 1, 2 & 4. Question 3 I answered as well, roughly 980k.
No it wouldnt, as there are continuous new blocks to be mined at the schedule I outlined a few posts earlier.
More importantly, it's good to see you asking real questions. I've noticed you've shifted from a skeptic to having genuine interest. Even if that interest is more around skepticism, it's the first step to being red pilled :) Even if it's something you (or anyone else) has no interest in investing in, I think making people understand more about it is important. It's why I'm on here doing this.
Im a happy upper (I think) middle class individual. I love our country, but think we're in some serious economic shit in the future. We printed so much money with no plan. We gave people so much free money that they just stopped working, leading to supply chain breakdowns, and now inflation. It's been comical hearing how the govt has pivoted on inflation. First, there was none, then it's transitory and now we're looking at 5% annually in the near term. WTF is that? BTC is my hedge. It's controlled, deflationary and continues to be adopted by more and more corporations, and institutions. We're staring down the barrel of a 100k+ coin this quarter. That's not pie in the sky numbers. It's all based on people who do onchain research a hell of a lot better than I do. I encourage anyone on Twitter to follow (in no order) Willy Woo, Will Clemenete, PlanB, Checkmate, Dylan Leclair, Permabull Nino for good technical price analysis. And follow Michael Saylor & Pomp for rah rah feel good, but highly educated, BTC news
You mention “onchain “ frequently. What “onchain” links can you share with us? I think you posted some a while ago but too many pages to find that post again. Thx in advance.
980k, I thought you said 980 million. Is there any proof of this number? I only ask because this is a question that has been raised many times by some crypto skeptics (I am not one of them). Is it possible for this person to have initially mined more than the 980k coins and stored it away outside of the bitcoin universe?
Okay, I'm confused as well. Nobody knows who SN is. Many think he is actually dead now. There are a MAX of 21 million BTC coins take can ever be created. As of now, there are about 18.5 million in existence. New BTCs are created to rewards miners for validating transaction blocks.
Unfortunately I’m learning there aren’t a lot of Bob-Lob’s in general that spend the time to research. I know people that are diving into BTC (even buying on margin)and when I ask them some of the most basic questions their eyes glaze over. I believe BTC was originally positioned as a transaction currency that we would one day use to buy all sorts of stuff. Now it seems to be a store of value because nobody wants to use it to buy things because of the volatility, high costs, and prospect of it going to the moon. Does this change the story long term?
Glassnode is the best source. Checkonchain is another. And Use Twitter to learn more from people who study on chain for a living... Checkmate, Will Clemente, PlanB, Willy Woo. They'll help break down what youre looking at.
If I did, I mistyped. Sorry. I'll dig around and get more definitive articles.
Odds are, he's Hal Finney and dead. Do a Google search of Hal Finney and Satoshi for evidence. Craig Wright is not satoshi. Here's the thing though, it's almost a think in the BTC ethos not to really learn who he is/was. If it was Hal and he's dead, so be it. It's almost like David Chase leaving Sopranos at the cut to black ending. You can put all the pieces of the puzzle together, but there's never going to be a clear answer.
Yes max of 21 mill. 18.8 currently in circ. Yes, new BTC are block rewards to miners
Lol, there's plenty of people like that. I only invested what I was content losing in the beginning, as I wanted skin in the game, and w/o that I wouldnt have done my research.
The initial intentions were a digital currency. It's morphed into a hybrid now. Up until Lightning, I would have said it was a store of value, but the Ligthning Network has made me rethink that mindset. It can genuinely be both, as people will use it as a currency, but predominantly the Bitcoin network will be used to move currency globally, all the while BTC the asset will be a store of value.
Long term this makes me more bullish. Listen to interviews w PlanB if you have a moment. What he says genuinely frightens me. Maybe its the Dutch accent, but the overall message he conveys is not pretty for the Dollar.
Lol. So youre watching Pomp? That was def more of a pep rally type interview. Did you watch any of his interviews w PlanB or Kevin Oleary?
Just watched it. Total joke - the guy has over $1B in BTC - does CNBC think he’s going to say anything other than BTC is like beach front in the Hampton?! Notice how he completely avoided the issue about people simply holding as a store of value. He was the same guy talking about the transactional future of BTC at one point and how it was the currency of the future.
I didnt realize he was on cnbc. He did an hour long interview w Pomp on YouTube 2 days ago.
I’m sure he’s sold plenty and is probably playing with the House’s money at this point. He’s your typical finance slimeball. It’s guys like him that have made a fortune as an insider and has great influence. Wanna know why carried interest remains a massive tax loop hole - look no further than guys like Scaramucci.
