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OT: Bitcoin, Altcoins, NFT's & All Things Crypto

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I read that article today and had a nice chuckle. It's great to see more acceptance, but in some instances it's too little too late. The growth of DeFi platforms is going to severely damage banking if they dont find a way to create their own protocol or find some other means of involvement
+1
DeFi is going to cause massive disruptions in the industry. By the way, I think ETH hit a new record hit today. Need the big dog (BTC) to break out of its consolidation dynamics of the past few weeks.
 
I read that article today and had a nice chuckle. It's great to see more acceptance, but in some instances it's too little too late. The growth of DeFi platforms is going to severely damage banking if they dont find a way to create their own protocol or find some other means of involvement
Can one of the resident crypto SMEs please explain the following using Cardano as the example. If the real value and importance of Cardano is the proof-of-stake blockchain technology why was it funded through an ICO instead of just building a start-up, licensing/selling the platform, and/or taking the traditional SaaS route? Can Cardano’s blockchain technology be divorced from the cryptocurrency element of it?
 
Can one of the resident crypto SMEs please explain the following using Cardano as the example. If the real value and importance of Cardano is the proof-of-stake blockchain technology why was it funded through an ICO instead of just building a start-up, licensing/selling the platform, and/or taking the traditional SaaS route? Can Cardano’s blockchain technology be divorced from the cryptocurrency element of it?
Wish I could, but I never really did any sort of DD on Cardano. PoS coins have no mining reward. Without mining rewards (Proof of Work) an ICO or an airdrop is needed to put the coins into distribution. I really dont know much about Cardano so i cant really use them as the example you'd like.

One of my favorite coins is Decred which is a PoW / PoS hybrid coin. 60% mining rewards to miners, 30% to stakers and 10% to the decentralized autonomous org.
 
Wish I could, but I never really did any sort of DD on Cardano. PoS coins have no mining reward. Without mining rewards (Proof of Work) an ICO or an airdrop is needed to put the coins into distribution. I really dont know much about Cardano so i cant really use them as the example you'd like.

One of my favorite coins is Decred which is a PoW / PoS hybrid coin. 60% mining rewards to miners, 30% to stakers and 10% to the decentralized autonomous org.
Setting aside Cardano, and this may be a stupid question, but why does anyone need the coin/mining structure? If technology like blockchain or some derivative is really the “golden goose” why not take the tech and buildout a real company? It’s not as if blockchain is new. IBM has had in-market blockchain products for years that aren’t tied to coins/miners. I’m mainly trying to figure out if the whole coin/miner structure is really just a way to enrich miners, stakers, and autonomous org. Why have coins at all - unless someone is getting rich on the other side? It’s also interesting that Big Tech hasn’t jumped in to capitalize on the opportunity and the only time they did FB’s Libra got hammered by regulators.
 
Appreciate all the information. Thinking of stepping into this sort of investment and this has been a good introduction. Sort of wish I started thinking about this at the beginning of Covid, but that’s life. I know a bunch of people that made some of the introductory mistakes that you all are warning about.
 
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I’m in on Cosmos internet of blockchain. Symbol ATOM. It deal with blockchain interoperability
 
A few years ago I had created a crypto account and got nervous because it would be attached to my bank account where I had a good amount of my funds put aside for retirement, when all I had to do was open a separate account and use that to invest in crypto . Needless to say I chickened out at the time because it was basically a new way of doing things and I will be kicking myself in the ash for a very long time because I would have surpassed my savings tenfold if I would of had a bigger pair. Luckily I got into crypto at the beginning of this year and it’s definitely been eventful ride 👍👍👍👍
 
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It’s also interesting that Big Tech hasn’t jumped in to capitalize on the opportunity and the only time they did FB’s Libra got hammered by regulators.

I think a lot of tech people understand the internet/web is hazardous and crypto is a roll of dice. Nothing is as secure and stable as many people think it is. Just this morning the first headline I see is that a US pipeline was hacked and potentially 45% of eastern fuel supply was in play ( https://news.trust.org/item/20210508152642-o9z7n ). There is massive hacking going on all the time and people just seem to forget about it all. Blockchain stuff isn't above it all. Plus there are more than a few people who think China want to use crypto to undermine US. People aren't even sure who started Bitcoin.

It could be more fun to mine. Get some video cards, watch a few videos and you're good to go

Once hailed as unhackable, blockchains are now getting hacked​


Peter Thiel: China could use bitcoin as a 'financial weapon against the US'​


crypto market could be destabilized if Bitcoin's anonymous creator is ever revealed or sells their $64 billion stake​



 
I think a lot of tech people understand the internet/web is hazardous and crypto is a roll of dice. Nothing is as secure and stable as many people think it is. Just this morning the first headline I see is that a US pipeline was hacked and potentially 45% of eastern fuel supply was in play ( https://news.trust.org/item/20210508152642-o9z7n ). There is massive hacking going on all the time and people just seem to forget about it all. Blockchain stuff isn't above it all. Plus there are more than a few people who think China want to use crypto to undermine US. People aren't even sure who started Bitcoin.

It could be more fun to mine. Get some video cards, watch a few videos and you're good to go

Once hailed as unhackable, blockchains are now getting hacked​


Peter Thiel: China could use bitcoin as a 'financial weapon against the US'​


crypto market could be destabilized if Bitcoin's anonymous creator is ever revealed or sells their $64 billion stake​



Something just doesn’t seem to add up starting with coins, miners, stakers, autonomous orgs, etc. And it amazes me that when you actually try to do some hard-core research it’s all driven by people that stand to benefit from the scheme or are paid shills. I’ve tried several times to no avail to get an answer to a simple question - if the blockchain tech is the real societal benefit to all this crypto madness why does anyone need to buy coins, pay miners, etc. Why wouldn’t the platform developer start a company and license or sell the blockchain tech as SaaS? Why the elaborate mining scheme? Spend a few hours researching Satoshi Nakamoto, BTC mining, etc. and it’s hard not to laugh that it’s now a trillion dollar asset class. If someone wants to speculate and get rich all the power to them. No doubt there is serious money to be made in crypto so I’m def NOT a “hater”. It’s just that none of it makes sense from a structural perspective (miners? a mystery creator? really?).
 
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A few years ago I had created a crypto account and got nervous because it would be attached to my bank account where I had a good amount of my funds put aside for retirement, when all I had to do was open a separate account and use that to invest in crypto . Needless to say I chickened out at the time because it was basically a new way of doing things and I will be kicking myself in the ash for a very long time because I would have surpassed my savings tenfold if I would of had a bigger pair. Luckily I got into crypto at the beginning of this year and it’s definitely been eventful ride 👍👍👍👍
We all have a story like this! My crypto account is completely separate from any other investments. I've been only using Grayscale for BTC and ETH, which has been working out well. I also own 4 crypto-based stocks. As the saying goes.....you bought what you were able to do when you were able to do it. So be thankful! I believe the bull run will last throughout 2021, but expect some big corrections (30-40%) and consolidation periods along the way. Have a plan and take advantage of these dips! Gotta have patience.

I desperately want to buy more ETH and one of my stocks, but gotta wait for the right time.
 
Setting aside Cardano, and this may be a stupid question, but why does anyone need the coin/mining structure? If technology like blockchain or some derivative is really the “golden goose” why not take the tech and buildout a real company? It’s not as if blockchain is new. IBM has had in-market blockchain products for years that aren’t tied to coins/miners. I’m mainly trying to figure out if the whole coin/miner structure is really just a way to enrich miners, stakers, and autonomous org. Why have coins at all - unless someone is getting rich on the other side? It’s also interesting that Big Tech hasn’t jumped in to capitalize on the opportunity and the only time they did FB’s Libra got hammered by regulators.

Without any sort of reward, what is the purpose of a miner mining? How will the chain be secure? The miners mining secure the network. Their reward is the coin. It's pretty straightforward.

You havent seen any big tech involved because of a lack of access to the Fed reserve payment system. There's a reason why Libra/Diem has lagged for so long. JPMorgan Chase announced a coin that'll move forward.

Last week, saw a very quiet but impactful proposal by the Fed. Their proposal is potentially allowing uninsured depository intuitions can get access to the Fed payment system (ACH). This could potentially open up the door to more tech entering the space.
 
Without any sort of reward, what is the purpose of a miner mining? How will the chain be secure? The miners mining secure the network. Their reward is the coin. It's pretty straightforward.

You havent seen any big tech involved because of a lack of access to the Fed reserve payment system. There's a reason why Libra/Diem has lagged for so long. JPMorgan Chase announced a coin that'll move forward.

Last week, saw a very quiet but impactful proposal by the Fed. Their proposal is potentially allowing uninsured depository intuitions can get access to the Fed payment system (ACH). This could potentially open up the door to more tech entering the space.
Without any sort of reward, what is the purpose of a miner mining? How will the chain be secure? The miners mining secure the network. Their reward is the coin. It's pretty straightforward.

You havent seen any big tech involved because of a lack of access to the Fed reserve payment system. There's a reason why Libra/Diem has lagged for so long. JPMorgan Chase announced a coin that'll move forward.

Last week, saw a very quiet but impactful proposal by the Fed. Their proposal is potentially allowing uninsured depository intuitions can get access to the Fed payment system (ACH). This could potentially open up the door to more tech entering the space.
OK - now we are getting somewhere. If miners secure the network and coin is the reward, what happens when all BTC is mined? What is a miner’s reward after 21 million coins are mined? I’m assuming the need to secure the network will continue so how will they get paid?
 
I could kick myself. Been waiting to jump in since $1200. I missed it.
It's very likely that ETH will break $10k during this bull run (which will probably last for the rest if 2021). Be patient, there will be a 30-40% consolidation soon. All bull runs have these "breather" periods. As the saying goes, don't chase the pump! Or, adopt the dollar cost averaging strategy and start buying a little each week or so.
 
OK - now we are getting somewhere. If miners secure the network and coin is the reward, what happens when all BTC is mined? What is a miner’s reward after 21 million coins are mined? I’m assuming the need to secure the network will continue so how will they get paid?

Well, we have 119 years before we get to that point. Odds are, it's use case will be expansive globally and transaction fees will be the reward. This idea is often met with skepticism from FUD-pushers. Those people are literally the same as the lazy reporter who writes about how miners are going to leave the space every 4 years after every halving. It happened last May, and the media reports it as fact.
 
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Well, we have 119 years before we get to that point. Odds are, it's use case will be expansive globally and transaction fees will be the reward. This idea is often met with skepticism from FUD-pushers. Those people are literally the same as the lazy reporter who writes about how miners are going to leave the space every 4 years after every halving. It happened last May, and the media reports it as fact.
+1
Only lazy or FUD-pusher bring up this silly item.
 

Cryptocurrency Is Now Worth More Than All US Currency in Circulation​


But still nobody can't use it for much

Bitcoin has no uses. That could be its downfall​

 
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Cryptocurrency Is Now Worth More Than All US Currency in Circulation​


But still nobody can't use it for much

Bitcoin has no uses. That could be its downfall​


According to who, Shawn Tully? So I guess nobody constitutes the millions of users on Paypal, Venmo & CashApp. Or maybe nobody is the people in 3rd world countries who do not have access to the dollar or a "stable" currency? Bitcoin is freedom for a lot people throughout the world who's government has ran their local currency to the ground
 
According to who, Shawn Tully? So I guess nobody constitutes the millions of users on Paypal, Venmo & CashApp. Or maybe nobody is the people in 3rd world countries who do not have access to the dollar or a "stable" currency? Bitcoin is freedom for a lot people throughout the world who's government has ran their local currency to the ground

But don't those users on Paypal, Venmo and CashApp have to convert to $ in order to actually purchase something?
It's like someone paying a debt with the old Toys R Us Geoffrey Dollars. Sure they have value - once you convert them back into an actual currency.

Give up on the "currency" debate.
Something can't be both a currency and a lucrative investment vehicle.

That's a fast track to running a local currency into the ground.
 
Well, we have 119 years before we get to that point. Odds are, it's use case will be expansive globally and transaction fees will be the reward. This idea is often met with skepticism from FUD-pushers. Those people are literally the same as the lazy reporter who writes about how miners are going to leave the space every 4 years after every halving. It happened last May, and the media reports it as fact.
Another question - in a future world of DeFi how is it remotely possible to protect the ecosystem from fraud and hacks? Obviously, today’s Finance world is not immune but at least there are companies and authorities to pursue criminals. In a future DeFi world, how would network security be supported and how would everyday people’s digital assets be protected?
 
But don't those users on Paypal, Venmo and CashApp have to convert to $ in order to actually purchase something?
It's like someone paying a debt with the old Toys R Us Geoffrey Dollars. Sure they have value - once you convert them back into an actual currency.

Give up on the "currency" debate.
Something can't be both a currency and a lucrative investment vehicle.

That's a fast track to running a local currency into the ground.

You can now pay directly with BTC for things with Paypal, Considering roughly 40% of ecommerce platforms accept Paypal (as of a few years ago) that opens a wide swath of things that can be purchased with BTC.

I dont know who is having a currency debate. I was merely answering a question.

I view BTC as a store of value. There are currency uses that currently exist, although transaction times can make that difficult.

In the next decade you will see some sort of coin serve as a global digital currency. As to whether or not it is a global central bank digital currency remains to be seen.
 
Another question - in a future world of DeFi how is it remotely possible to protect the ecosystem from fraud and hacks? Obviously, today’s Finance world is not immune but at least there are companies and authorities to pursue criminals. In a future DeFi world, how would network security be supported and how would everyday people’s digital assets be protected?

Cybersecurity obviously is no joke, as evidenced by Solar Winds or even this weekends pipeline hack. Nothing is immune. BTC is not as anonymous as some would like to believe. There's always a digital trail of BTC and where its going.

We're all going to have a digital wallet in the next 5 - 10 yrs. Unfort, a lot of security exploits are going to be driven through user error similar to every other phishing scheme that has been run. Spam calls for prepaid cards, the prince of nigeria, the origial send a dollar to everyone on this pyramid scheme back 90's, AOL chatroom password hacks, phishing emails, misleading url's. The list goes on. Cyber security should be a mandatory HS course along with financial literacy to all youth.

That answer was all over the place, sorry.
 
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Cybersecurity obviously is no joke, as evidenced by Solar Winds or even this weekends pipeline hack. Nothing is immune. BTC is not as anonymous as some would like to believe. There's always a digital trail of BTC and where its going.

We're all going to have a digital wallet in the next 5 - 10 yrs. Unfort, a lot of security exploits are going to be driven through user error similar to every other phishing scheme that has been run. Spam calls for prepaid cards, the prince of nigeria, the origial send a dollar to everyone on this pyramid scheme back 90's, AOL chatroom password hacks, phishing emails, misleading url's. The list goes on. Cyber security should be a mandatory HS course along with financial literacy to all youth.

That answer was all over the place, sorry.
I appreciate the response. It will be interesting to see how DeFi security evolves because right now if my credit card is stolen or bank account is hacked I call AMEX or Chase. In the world of DeFi, I’m wondering who you call and whether digital wallet custodians will be able to protect you or take on potential liability for their own errors or negligence. One of the main reasons the current financial model works is because there is usually always a throat to choke or someone to sue.
 
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I appreciate the response. It will be interesting to see how DeFi security evolves because right now if my credit card is stolen or bank account is hacked I call AMEX or Chase. In the world of DeFi, I’m wondering who you call and whether digital wallet custodians will be able to protect you or take on potential liability for their own errors or negligence. One of the main reasons the current financial model works is because there is usually always a throat to choke or someone to sue.
Digital wallets are the future, but personally I am iffy about them as of now. However, they will be backed by large financial companies.....PayPal, SQ, banks, etc. So I believe you will have someone to contact for support. The actual blockchains are pretty safe and secure (but of course, nothing is 100%).

In other crypto news.....flash crash for ETH and BTC just before the bell (which happens from time to time). ETH is back over $4k. Interested to see what happened.
 
Bitcoin is freedom for a lot people throughout the world who's government has ran their local currency to the ground
Wherever people live, they aren't using crypto on Amazon. Amazon knows crypto value can vanish as quick or quicker as that of a 4th world currency. People can make money with crypto (some people made money with Madoff too) and when the rocket is taking off you can have a nice ride. But there is always the heat shield free re-entry and splashdown after the ride. I like the mining angle more than the brinksmanship. Alas in the end I still cant hit the mini mart and buy milk or gas with crypto. Crypto frenzy kind of reminds me of the dot.com bubble of the 90s. It all came hard and then went down hard. Even if things keep developing its would be just a matter of time before the governments came in for their cuts and regs
 
I appreciate the response. It will be interesting to see how DeFi security evolves because right now if my credit card is stolen or bank account is hacked I call AMEX or Chase. In the world of DeFi, I’m wondering who you call and whether digital wallet custodians will be able to protect you or take on potential liability for their own errors or negligence. One of the main reasons the current financial model works is because there is usually always a throat to choke or someone to sue.

All very valid concerns.
 
Wherever people live, they aren't using crypto on Amazon. Amazon knows crypto value can vanish as quick or quicker as that of a 4th world currency. People can make money with crypto (some people made money with Madoff too) and when the rocket is taking off you can have a nice ride. But there is always the heat shield free re-entry and splashdown after the ride. I like the mining angle more than the brinksmanship. Alas in the end I still cant hit the mini mart and buy milk or gas with crypto. Crypto frenzy kind of reminds me of the dot.com bubble of the 90s. It all came hard and then went down hard

Ok. Amazon doesnt accept crypto. Never mentioned they did, so not sure what the inclusion here is. Again, I was pointing out that Paypal (not Amazon) will allow you to make purchased with BTC.

At the end of the day, you can go to a lot more places than you think and pay with BTC. Like I said in an earlier response, I dont foresee BTC being the true digital currency. It will be the digital store of value. Another coin like Stellar or a central bank coin will fulfil the currency role. It may hurt to admit, but you'll be paying for things in crypto a lot sooner than you think.

And yes I completely agree that we're in a bubble right now. There are a ton of shitcoins that are going to have their tops blown off and be as valuable as a Venezuelan Bolivar. It's going to fall for a good chunk of coins, just as most dot coms with no purpose never came back in the 2000's. The dot coms that survived changed the world. You'll be seeing the exact same thing in the crypto space.
 
I appreciate the response. It will be interesting to see how DeFi security evolves because right now if my credit card is stolen or bank account is hacked I call AMEX or Chase. In the world of DeFi, I’m wondering who you call and whether digital wallet custodians will be able to protect you or take on potential liability for their own errors or negligence. One of the main reasons the current financial model works is because there is usually always a throat to choke or someone to sue.

This is one of the biggest risks for cryptocurrency.
 
This is one of the biggest risks for cryptocurrency.
I think it will be hard for a DeFi crypto world to overcome the cybersecurity risks unless the financial institutions really step up. The Russians, Chinese, and North Koreans will be relentless in a DeFi environment. And, I’m not sure there is really any way to stop them. Even with all of the hacks we hear about today, think about all of the hacks and fraud that goes undetected. It won’t take much for a criminal syndicate to infiltrate blockchain platforms or figure out a way siphon off digital assets without owners even knowing. And, if a governing authority were to take over DeFi that would defeat the very purpose of DeFi.
 
I think it will be hard for a DeFi crypto world to overcome the cybersecurity risks unless the financial institutions really step up. The Russians, Chinese, and North Koreans will be relentless in a DeFi environment. And, I’m not sure there is really any way to stop them. Even with all of the hacks we hear about today, think about all of the hacks and fraud that goes undetected. It won’t take much for a criminal syndicate to infiltrate blockchain platforms or figure out a way siphon off digital assets without owners even knowing. And, if a governing authority were to take over DeFi that would defeat the very purpose of DeFi.
The other issues that are unclear about cryptocurrency that are unclear are the following. How much of these currencies are controlled by the founders? I agree that China, Russia, North Korea, etc will find ways to hack into the individual wallets. I know crtypo bulls deny that it can happen, but I am not sure. I understand the attraction towards decentralized finance system, but there are definite risks that are being blazed over.
 
The other issues that are unclear about cryptocurrency that are unclear are the following. How much of these currencies are controlled by the founders? I agree that China, Russia, North Korea, etc will find ways to hack into the individual wallets. I know crtypo bulls deny that it can happen, but I am not sure. I understand the attraction towards decentralized finance system, but there are definite risks that are being blazed over.
Agree - I’m completely confused by the founder model especially when trying to reconcile the Satoshi Nakamoto conundrum. With BTC front and center in the crypto movement, why isn’t every financial media outlet desperately trying to uncover what may be the biggest financial mystery of our lifetime? There are more internet articles on Kanye’s Yeezy sneakers than the unknown creator of a trillion dollar asset class?!
 
Agree - I’m completely confused by the founder model especially when trying to reconcile the Satoshi Nakamoto conundrum. With BTC front and center in the crypto movement, why isn’t every financial media outlet desperately trying to uncover what may be the biggest financial mystery of our lifetime? There are more internet articles on Kanye’s Yeezy sneakers than the unknown creator of a trillion dollar asset class?!
The creator or creators of BTC decided to stay anonymous to prevent the issues you are alluding to. No "founder" dynamic so to allow BTC it's own identify. I assume it was one true lead with other people helping on specific parts of the code (e.g., general contractor and sub-contractors). There is some speculation on a few people who may be Nakamoto and one likely candidate passed away. So BTC is what it is. A decentralized blockchain that now can only be controlled by 51% of miners which will most likely never happen. BTC has a life of its own.
 
The creator or creators of BTC decided to stay anonymous to prevent the issues you are alluding to. No "founder" dynamic so to allow BTC it's own identify. I assume it was one true lead with other people helping on specific parts of the code (e.g., general contractor and sub-contractors). There is some speculation on a few people who may be Nakamoto and one likely candidate passed away. So BTC is what it is. A decentralized blockchain that now can only be controlled by 51% of miners which will most likely never happen. BTC has a life of its own.
Just stating my opinion so no need to brand me a “hater” - I’m highly skeptical of any founder(s) that create a trillion dollar asset class and choose to remain anonymous. I think there is a high likelihood that the founder(s) are rich beyond their wildest dreams now living on private islands laughing at all of the crypto madness.
 
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